RO Orals posptoned due to coronavirus

[dieABRdie]

Just got this:

In response to the growing health situation posed by the coronavirus, the ABR is postponing the RO Oral Exam scheduled for May 3-5 in Tucson. Candidates scheduled to take the exam will soon receive notice detailing when it will be rescheduled.

Many airlines are either waiving cancelation fees or considering the action. Please contact yours to see if your ticket qualifies.

The ABR continues to monitor the outbreak and will provide regular updates at theabr.org. We apologize for any inconvenience caused by this cancellation. These actions are coming after careful consideration of options and are being taken in the best interests of our candidates, staff and the public.

We are sincerely sorry for any inconvenience or costs that may be associated with this change.

For the most up-to-date information regarding the virus, and how to minimize the risk of infection, please refer to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control.

If you have questions, please contact an ABR Certification Manager at [email protected] or (520) 790-2900.

Thank you,
American Board of Radiology

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[Pointless]

$hit getting real. Had to laugh after I read the statement and then saw the OP's username.

 

[taserlaser]

I've already booked the review course in Kansas. Hard to say if even that will be going on in a few weeks.

Damn.

 

[metallica81788]

This is complete bull****.

So we're just supposed to have this hanging over our head indefinitely until something does or does not happen? Oral boards is not what is going to prevent or make this virus spread - it's going to do what it is going to do no matter what. People are making travel plans, spending money, taking review courses, studying and basing their entire lives on this test and now cannot make any more plans until this fear-mongering ends.

 

[w00tz]

I suppose this is in my best interest, but it also prolongs my suffering.

 

[taserlaser]

Might I add this is the same cohort that got screwed on the radbio and physics too. Just doesn’t stop.

 

[RO28]

Might I add this is the same cohort that got screwed on the radbio and physics too. Just doesn’t stop.

Yes, yes it is the same cohort (raises hand cuz I had to take physics multiple times). This is total garbage! WE HAVE LIVES TOO! We can't just be at the mercy of this stinking governing body to jerk us around and not have a clear, concrete plan when they send out an email like this. I'm so mad.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Yeah it sucks for you guys (who have already been dicked by radbio/physics), but if somebody contracts corona during oral boards when there is all this travel advisory stuff going on, maybe they're worried it opens them up to a lawsuit.

Or, more nefariously, they think that a recent grad may try to 'get back' at the ABR during oral boards. I'm kidding, mostly.

 

[JDP76]

This is complete bull****...I thght I was the only one angry but glad to know everyone shares this same feeling..it is a complete miserable time for us all. We are trying to plan accordingly taking prep courses, spending a lot organizing our lives around this exam ... it gets super frustrating when the boards dont think about all this. If there are failures in this exam it will be because of this complete disorganized ruckus that ABR is solely responsible for ... and the worst part....ABR does not care .... all they will say is "fail - see you next year"

 

[Lamount]

Yeah it sucks for you guys (who have already been dicked by radbio/physics), but if somebody contracts corona during oral boards when there is all this travel advisory stuff going on, maybe they're worried it opens them up to a lawsuit.

Or, more nefariously, they think that a recent grad may try to 'get back' at the ABR during oral boards. I'm kidding, mostly.

Or it could also be that if the virus spreads at oral boards, it would probably expose a good chunk of practicing radoncs (any practice with a new grad). Personally, I question the utility of upending our lives to avoid something we are all going to get exposed to anyway..., but I suppose oncologists are a bit more fatalistic than ID docs lol

If you accept the premise that we should be altering practice for Covoid-19, then this is a very logical step.

 

[Grubbe-a-dub-dub]

Utter nonsense. This field is complete trash. I supremely regret my decision going into it.

 

[PhotonBomb]

Hold on guys. This doesn’t have much to do with the ABR as much as it does with multiple institutions having TRAVEL BANS. The ABR has no choice. Boards simply cannot happen. It’s not that they think people will ‘catch corona’ while in Tucson.

For example MDACC HAS BANNED TRAVEL FOR 8 week! Most major places are announcing bans this week. Can’t have boards if examiners can’t come!

It sucks no doubt. I’m just glad they announced it because people I know were realizing yesterday and today it was an open question. Im
Actually impressed they gave an answer so quickly!

Now they have to figure out when it will be

 

[xrt123]

My dad used to say that when life gives you lemons you find a new residency and suck it up for a few years since radiation oncology is going down the tubes anyways.

 

[Grubbe-a-dub-dub]

If anything, figure out an alternative way to deliver the exam or just bypass it all together this year.

Most fields don't require this archaic means to test the competency of their residents.

And when you start to see all these old geezers who are "board certified" practicing in suspect ways, you start to question the point of these exams.

 

[w00tz]

I honestly wish keeping the original date was an option. I would not mind taking my chances with contracting the virus. And if I did, I'm sure I would end up okay. Extending the exam is worse pain for me.

 

[PhotonBomb]

I honestly wish keeping the original date was an option. I would not mind taking my chances with contracting the virus. And if I did, I'm sure I would end up okay. Extending the exam is worse pain for me.

There would be no one to examine you

 

[RadOncMegatron]

I truly feel bad for you guys. Not fun.

 

[metallica81788]

We need to all band together and not show up at this rescheduled abortion.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[w00tz]

There would be no one to examine you

I'm not interested in your rationale thoughts at the moment, bro. Just let me vent and be overly dramatic.

 

[deleted1002574]

IsNt this the same class that dealt with the last exam debacle?

 

[deleted956486]

Looks like ABRO postponed their exams as well.

 

[seper]

Unfortunate, but perhaps an opportunity to continue studying and to get better.
When I was taking my orals, clinical work was busy and I wished I had more time.

 

[taserlaser]

The medical physics ABR orals were just postponed too.

 

[deleted18755]

I have nothing to add other than my sympathy (especially if this was the class that had to deal with the recent radiobiology/physics debacle). Even those of us who took the exam many years ago and passed the first time around still have horrible memories of the oral boards . . . hopefully this prompts them to finally get rid of this archaic and unnecessarily torturous exam!

 

[KHE88]

This is silly on so many levels. The planning and expense that goes into this silly exam on behalf of candidates is immense. For a solo practitioner like me, arranging coverage so that I can take time off to study and actually travel and take the exam is a very, very big deal.

The ABR should use this as an opportunity to do the right thing and permanently end this exam as most other fields have done, and even as the ABR has done themselves with diagnostic radiology. We all know it is a subjective exam, a pointless vestigial relic of a past era (hell, I'm surprised people aren't calling it a racist exam due to implicit bias whatnot -- the ivory tower elites are the ones that believe that nonsesne after all), and that competent candidates who practice standard of care day-to-day can fail due to psychological factors associated with an oral exam. In the rural setting, I have met a number of competent non-BC rad oncs who couldn't get past that exam.

At the very least, the ABR should just postpone it until the next year and extend BE for our class by an extra year. And they should waive all fees associated with it and use their fat coffers to provide transportation and lodging as many of us are taking a financial hit because of this. Coronavirus is not going to be cleared up by summer, and likely will get a second wind in the fall when it gets cold again.

More likely, the ABR is just going to stick it to the class of 2019 once again and say meh, tough and reschedule the exam with a month's notice or something leaving us with no way to find coverage and appropriately study for it. And I'm sure they will think that's OK. What will they blame our 5-6 standard of deviation increased failure rate on this time? I guess they'll say the class of 2019 is just a one-off bunch of idiots again.

 

[Grubbe-a-dub-dub]

I'm all for a digital format - it shouldn't be that hard to accomplish (we are the heaviest users of technology in all of medicine...).

 

[deleted1002574]

Wait, are you saying the test is racist? Or that it could be? Has hell frozen over??
Anyway, this is absolute baloney for your class. "Hot garbage" as they say.

This is silly on so many levels. The planning and expense that goes into this silly exam on behalf of candidates is immense. For a solo practitioner like me, arranging coverage so that I can take time off to study and actually travel and take the exam is a very, very big deal.

The ABR should use this as an opportunity to do the right thing and permanently end this exam as most other fields have done, and even as the ABR has done themselves with diagnostic radiology. We all know it is a subjective exam, a pointless vestigial relic of a past era (hell, I'm surprised people aren't calling it a racist exam due to implicit bias whatnot -- the ivory tower elites are the ones that believe that nonsesne after all), and that competent candidates who practice standard of care day-to-day can fail due to psychological factors associated with an oral exam. In the rural setting, I have met a number of competent non-BC rad oncs who couldn't get past that exam.

At the very least, the ABR should just postpone it until the next year and extend BE for our class by an extra year. And they should waive all fees associated with it and use their fat coffers to provide transportation and lodging as many of us are taking a financial hit because of this. Coronavirus is not going to be cleared up by summer, and likely will get a second wind in the fall when it gets cold again.

More likely, the ABR is just going to stick it to the class of 2019 once again and say meh, tough and reschedule the exam with a month's notice or something leaving us with no way to find coverage and appropriately study for it. And I'm sure they will think that's OK. What will they blame our 5-6 standard of deviation increased failure rate on this time? I guess they'll say the class of 2019 is just a one-off bunch of idiots again.

 

[KHE88]

Wait, are you saying the test is racist? Or that it could be? Has hell frozen over??
Anyway, this is absolute baloney for your class. "Hot garbage" as they say.

LOL, no calm down. I'm just saying that I'm surprised the rad onc academic woke-scolds on Twitter haven't yet attacked the oral exam as racist/sexist. After all, if you believe the implicit bias test is valid (it's not, it's been repeatedly debunked, criticized by its creators, and demonstrated that the test can be gamed and produce different results when the same person takes it twice, etc), and you believe implicit bias is something we all have, then would you support an oral exam where the examiner can see the sex and race of the candidate and then is tasked with making a subjective assessement of that person? Or would you support a written exam where there is literally no way someone's inherent racism or sexism can subconciously come across and negatively affect someone's score?

 

[w00tz]

Wait, are you saying the test is racist? Or that it could be? Has hell frozen over??
Anyway, this is absolute baloney for your class. "Hot garbage" as they say.

Yes, you fool. Incredibly racist. Have you seen the ABR logo? Ever notice the Illuminati sign hidden in the A??? Stay woke, my friend.

 

[deleted1002574]

Phew.. I'm in the minority (and, a minority). But, I think it's a good exam.

 

[firewicket]

Lets start pooping on Wallner and Kachnick....they actually read this forum

Annnnnnddd, drumroll, Let the pooping begin:

 

[KHE88]

Phew.. I'm in the minority (and, a minority). But, I think it's a good exam.

Yeah, well you already passed the exam easy for you to say!

I think that's part of the problem. So many of the old school suffer through it, get through it, then they get on the other side and feel the need to haze the next generation.

I had to suffer through it, so everyone else has to as well! Regardless of whether it's, you know, actually an effective and objective measure of minimal competence.

 

[deleted1002574]

I passed all the exams. Radbio and physics are garbage exams. Step I is a garbage exam. IMO, oral exam is better than those. But, I can see why people disagree. It's still better than all the other tests. We've seen what a written exam can lead to...

 

[taserlaser]

Sigh. The mock orals in Kansas were just cancelled, too. They plan to reschedule the course, but let's see how much this costs to rebook flights, accommodations, etc. This whole process has been quite expensive.

 

[seper]

Is Kansas Mock Oral review a viable alternative to Osler? I see that this was supposed to be 11th session, which is great.

Sigh. The mock orals in Kansas were just cancelled, too. They plan to reschedule the course, but let's see how much this costs to rebook flights, accommodations, etc. This whole process has been quite expensive.

 

[Carotenoid]

I'm all for a digital format - it shouldn't be that hard to accomplish (we are the heaviest users of technology in all of medicine...).

Wallner is still learning the computer... maybe next year

 

[Carotenoid]

This is silly on so many levels. The planning and expense that goes into this silly exam on behalf of candidates is immense. For a solo practitioner like me, arranging coverage so that I can take time off to study and actually travel and take the exam is a very, very big deal.

The ABR should use this as an opportunity to do the right thing and permanently end this exam as most other fields have done, and even as the ABR has done themselves with diagnostic radiology. We all know it is a subjective exam, a pointless vestigial relic of a past era (hell, I'm surprised people aren't calling it a racist exam due to implicit bias whatnot -- the ivory tower elites are the ones that believe that nonsesne after all), and that competent candidates who practice standard of care day-to-day can fail due to psychological factors associated with an oral exam. In the rural setting, I have met a number of competent non-BC rad oncs who couldn't get past that exam.

At the very least, the ABR should just postpone it until the next year and extend BE for our class by an extra year. And they should waive all fees associated with it and use their fat coffers to provide transportation and lodging as many of us are taking a financial hit because of this. Coronavirus is not going to be cleared up by summer, and likely will get a second wind in the fall when it gets cold again.

More likely, the ABR is just going to stick it to the class of 2019 once again and say meh, tough and reschedule the exam with a month's notice or something leaving us with no way to find coverage and appropriately study for it. And I'm sure they will think that's OK. What will they blame our 5-6 standard of deviation increased failure rate on this time? I guess they'll say the class of 2019 is just a one-off bunch of idiots again.

Yes, it is pretty ridic, at my institution we prefer to announce vaca time 3 or so months in advance... last night i wrote to my HR person about the postponement as well as looked at the future vacation schedule - it is tight, filled already by other people. Def won't be fun to reschedule.

 

[RadOncMegatron]

Phew.. I'm in the minority (and, a minority). But, I think it's a good exam.

I too think it is a good exam. In comparison to step I, the studying, hours of training, and prepping for the orals has made me a better rad onc. I still feel that knowledge I gained from it was useful. Step I knowledge, ehh, not so much, don't remember that crap and would fail step I instantly today. In the sites I do day in and day out, I would pass the orals (ok with a little bit of brush up) today.

 

[w00tz]

Yes, it is pretty ridic, at my institution we prefer to announce vaca time 3 or so months in advance... last night i wrote to my HR person about the postponement as well as looked at the future vacation schedule - it is tight, filled already by other people. Def won't be fun to reschedule.

I have my Osler, which I'm sure will be rescheduled. I would hate to book two separate flights out to Tuscon...

Also already planned/booked my post-boards vacation with my family, too. Might still be post-boards, or pre-boards now, or maybe even during the new boards dates. Good thing my wife loves surprises...

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

I recommend that those who were scheduled to take this exam come together and propose that the exam be given by Skype or similar virtual technology. Examinees in a secure location so they cannot use other technologies to help with answers and examiners (I am one of them) in their offices (or at home in their pajamas .

 

[metallica81788]

I have my Osler, which I'm sure will be rescheduled. I would hate to book two separate flights out to Tuscon...

Also already planned/booked my post-boards vacation with my family, too. Might still be post-boards, or pre-boards now, or maybe even during the new boards dates. Good thing my wife loves surprises...

This is the exact thing that rescheduling this causes. Most of us probably have 2-3 trips (including Tucson) scheduled or in various stages of planning throughout the rest of the year. Our families suffer for this as well.

Just make it virtual - we all group study virtually anyway. Surely if some mere idiots that don't know radbio and physics can figure out how to study via video conference, the great ABR with its technological supremacy can figure it out.

 

[w00tz]

I recommend that those who were scheduled to take this exam come together and propose that the exam be given by Skype or similar virtual technology. Examinees in a secure location so they cannot use other technologies to help with answers and examiners (I am one of them) in their offices (or at home in their pajamas .

Yes, ABR, think of the poor examiners. I dread going to Tuscon to take the orals. Can't imagine going annually!

 

[RadOncMegatron]

This is the exact thing that rescheduling this causes. Most of us probably have 2-3 trips (including Tucson) scheduled or in various stages of planning throughout the rest of the year. Our families suffer for this as well.

Just make it virtual - we all group study virtually anyway. Surely if some mere idiots that don't know radbio and physics can figure out how to study via video conference, the great ABR with its technological supremacy can figure it out.

Honestly, oral exam could very well be open book. I wouldn't have benefited from Google very much and it would super obvious if you tried cheating. Anyways, if this is the same crew that got screwed over in rad bio/physics then just give'em a break do it virtually. It will be a experimental good run through and a sorta recompense for the bio/physics debacle ie even if this "compromises" the test somewhat, this group of rad oncs deserve the pass.

 

[deleted1002574]

Yes, ABR, think of the poor examiners. I dread going to Tuscon to take the orals. Can't imagine going annually!

Nobody wants to be in Tucson. Not even the people that live there. Where fun goes to die ...

 

[radonconogs]

The rumors from folks involved with ABR is re-scheduling for the fall, no virtual testing. Take that for what you will...

 

[w00tz]

The rumors from folks involved with ABR is re-scheduling for the fall, no virtual testing. Take that for what you will...

Hope they let us know soon...if it's that far out, I will close my books now and resume my gym membership

 

[KHE88]

Honestly, oral exam could very well be open book. I wouldn't have benefited from Google very much and it would super obvious if you tried cheating. Anyways, if this is the same crew that got screwed over in rad bio/physics then just give'em a break do it virtually. It will be a experimental good run through and a sorta recompense for the bio/physics debacle ie even if this "compromises" the test somewhat, this group of rad oncs deserve the pass.

Precisely. When something rare walks into my clinic, I will consult a reference rather than rely on my memory and limited experience and make sure I'm doing it right and do a literature search to make sure I'm up-to-date. For run-of-the-mill prostate, breast, lung, most GI stuff, etc, I can do a chart review in 5 minutes and know what my plan's going to be, and can contour and review the plan without referencing anything.

But because I might not be able to whip out a pediatric DIPG re-irradiation plan off the top of my head, am I incompetent? Or even gray areas in breast, such as do I treat nodes with a couple of risk factors or not. I'm doing a literature search on that sometimes and looking for new data.

If this exam did what it's supposed to do, all of us competent physicians should just walk in, be presented with a case, given the tools and resources we normally have to generate a plan, such as reference books and the internet, and then present our plan (you know, what we do in our actual jobs). Instead, we play this game where we spend months cramming to memorize scripts and spit out specific case scenarios in a matter of seconds. Why not test us to see how we actually practice? Isn't that the point of the exam?

 

[Ionized]

Can someone remind me what happened with the rad bio/physics with this group a few years ago? Was this the group that had a 50% fail rate or something?

 

[w00tz]

Can someone remind me what happened with the rad bio/physics with this group a few years ago? Was this the group that had a 50% fail rate or something?

So probably 40%+/-10% failing either test?

 

[GapCalc]

Another review course (UMMS) also postponed indefinitely following the ABR date change. Lost $200 on the hotel reservation.

Thanks, ABR!