RO Orals posptoned due to coronavirus

[PhotonBomb]

At some of the low end programs, the attendings are stealing masks from residents.

Stay safe

Jokes, just to be clear

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

This is my favorite part from that blog post:

"The health and safety of our candidates, examiners, staff, and public are our greatest concerns. When our exams resume, we will redouble our already comprehensive efforts to keep our centers sanitary. It has been our custom to thoroughly clean every station and public area after an exam administration. Those efforts will only increase."

I feel so much better, ABR, thank you.

I really don't see the downside to pushing the written exams back a few months, or allowing them to be taken at home/virtually.

 

[medgator]

. It has been our custom to thoroughly clean every station and public area after an exam administration. Those efforts will only increase."

Aren't the oral exams still given in hotel rooms?

 

[RadOncMegatron]

It looks like the ABR thinks we are doing these tests for the ABR's sake not the public or examinees. They seem to think that they are losing out by not doing the test...

 

[taserlaser]

Just heard from my Canadian friends that all FRCPC oral exams are now cancelled, not deferred as a one time exception for the 2020 cohort, which includes all specialties, not just rad onc. They'll still be required to write their written component, but orals are now off the table.

Addendum: oh, and they’re being refunded about half of their exam fees that were allocated to the oral portion as well.

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

Aren't the oral exams still given in hotel rooms?

Behind the Tucson Greyhound station

 

[radonconogs]

ASTRO is now a virtual meeting (see below). I wonder if that will affect orals as well...

While the 2020 ASTRO Annual Meeting is still many months away, the ASTRO Board of Directors has made the important decision to transition the live meeting in Miami to an immersive and interactive virtual meeting that will occur over the same dates, October 25-28.

This decision was based on our overwhelming concern for the safety and well-being of our members, their patients, exhibitors, staff and the families of all involved.

As president of ASTRO, I've seen first-hand what goes into planning a meeting of this magnitude over the past 18 months. Making this decision now allows us to focus our full efforts on providing a comprehensive and groundbreaking virtual meeting—like none other you have experienced. The 2020 ASTRO Annual Meeting—Global Oncology: Radiation Therapy In A Changing World—will include a complete Annual Meeting experience from the Presidential Symposium, to the Plenary Session and Clinical Trials; from Education and Scientific Sessions, to an interactive Exhibit Hall; innovative networking opportunities and so much more.

The scientific research presented at the Annual Meeting is an invaluable asset to both academic and community radiation oncology practices around the world. Our unwavering commitment to you is to disseminate this critical cancer research in a unique and engaging way. The Program Planning Committee has already selected more than 120 education, workshop, masterclass and panel sessions, as well as more than 2,500 abstracts that will be delivered in oral or poster sessions.

We will continue to update you as the plans for this meeting unfold. Please review our initial FAQs, which will be updated regularly. Additionally, ASTRO will keep you informed through all our usual communication vehicles, including the weekly ASTROgram, ASTRrg, ROhub and social media platforms.

Although we will miss the opportunity to see each other face to face in Miami this fall, we look forward to delivering a world-class 2020 Annual Meeting experience. Thank you for all that you do for ASTRO and, most importantly, for those we serve: our patients. You have my deepest appreciation. I look forward to seeing you virtually in Miami! Stay safe, be well.

Best regards,
Thomas J. Eichler MD, FASTRO
President, ASTRO

 

[metallica81788]

No logical reason for virtual ASTRO and no virtual oral boards.

However, at this point I want the trip to Tucson for some change and the CME days I won't be able to take otherwise...

 

[Grubbe-a-dub-dub]

What are the odds that the oral boards will be in person? Probably low in my opinion, the same people who decided to make ASTRO digital are some of the same people who are part of the ABR.

A digital oral boards is very doable. Use the same testing sites that we took our clinicals and rad bio. Have them set up computers with cameras in private booths. Done.

 

[PhotonBomb]

What are the odds that the oral boards will be in person? Probably low in my opinion, the same people who decided to make ASTRO digital are some of the same people who are part of the ABR.

A digital oral boards is very doable. Use the same testing sites that we took our clinicals and rad bio. Have them set up computers with cameras in private booths. Done.

do these centers have private booths?

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

What are the odds that the oral boards will be in person? Probably low in my opinion, the same people who decided to make ASTRO digital are some of the same people who are part of the ABR.

A digital oral boards is very doable. Use the same testing sites that we took our clinicals and rad bio. Have them set up computers with cameras in private booths. Done.

This assumes those testing centers will even be open/amenable to this as well - which is unclear, considering decisions about written quals have yet to be made.

 

[evilbooyaa]

What are the odds that the oral boards will be in person? Probably low in my opinion, the same people who decided to make ASTRO digital are some of the same people who are part of the ABR.

A digital oral boards is very doable. Use the same testing sites that we took our clinicals and rad bio. Have them set up computers with cameras in private booths. Done.

Taking it from Pearson won't work... all written exams have been postponed with no re-scheduled date as of yet.

I'm very skeptical that online ASTRO means online board exams.

 

[taserlaser]

Taking it from Pearson won't work... all written exams have been postponed with no re-scheduled date as of yet.

I'm very skeptical that online ASTRO means online board exams.

Online board exams would be awesome. I’m more on the cynical side though, and worried there won’t be the infrastructure unless there’s an agreement made that each program proctors their own students, which I would find very unlikely. I also think a fall sitting for oral boards unlikely/a big Covid risk for everyone involved, between flying and congregating all in one place. Everyone is going to have masks available? Who’s going to supply them? I am just not sure how they’ll do this well.

 

[PhotonBomb]

Online board exams would be awesome. I’m more on the cynical side though, and worried there won’t be the infrastructure unless there’s an agreement made that each program proctors their own students, which I would find very unlikely. I also think a fall sitting for oral boards unlikely/a big Covid risk for everyone involved, between flying and congregating all in one place. Everyone is going to have masks available? Who’s going to supply them? I am just not sure how they’ll do this well.

I wonder if the poor saps taking boards this year will get to wear scrubs

 

[metallica81788]

Pass everybody this year until people can figure their ish out.

 

[Grubbe-a-dub-dub]

This assumes those testing centers will even be open/amenable to this as well - which is unclear, considering decisions about written quals have yet to be made.

Very true. But if they want business I'm sure they might be amendable. It's probably safer for the examiner than meeting with 150+ people in a hotel room.

 

[seper]

Knowing ABR workings a bit, I'm a bit skeptical that they'll be able to procure and commission a professional online platform on that short of a notice. Just DYO'ing oral boards by Zoom would not work.

 

[taserlaser]

Knowing ABR workings a bit, I'm a bit skeptical that they'll be able to procure and commission a professional online platform on that short of a notice. Just DYO'ing oral boards by Zoom would not work.

Sorry you were on mute, can you please repeat your entire response and summarize it in 1 min?

 

[KHE88]

This whole thing is so stupid.

Do you all remember when we took USMLE step 3?

They had this portion of the test that had a virtual case simulator.

There is ZERO reason why rad onc can't do this.

Create a test to be administered at Pearson that simply has a comprehensive written exam followed by a case simulator. Give the thing multiple times a year. Logitically EASY. Get more people certified and into their MOC scam.

DONE. ABR still gets their monies (with likely higher profit margin) and pretends to certify us as competent (with likely higher degree of confidence).

The in-person exam is a subjective archaic relic and needs to die a quick, painful death.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

This whole thing is so stupid.

Do you all remember when we took USMLE step 3?

They had this portion of the test that had a virtual case simulator.

There is ZERO reason why rad onc can't do this.

Create a test to be administered at Pearson that simply has a comprehensive written exam followed by a case simulator. Give the thing multiple times a year. Logitically EASY. Get more people certified and into their MOC scam.

DONE. ABR still gets their monies (with likely higher profit margin) and pretends to certify us as competent (with likely higher degree of confidence).

The in-person exam is a subjective archaic relic and needs to die a quick, painful death.

i like my ABR like i like my steak: (well) DONE and with ketchup

 

[Doctorer]

This whole thing is so stupid.

Do you all remember when we took USMLE step 3?

They had this portion of the test that had a virtual case simulator.

There is ZERO reason why rad onc can't do this.

Create a test to be administered at Pearson that simply has a comprehensive written exam followed by a case simulator. Give the thing multiple times a year. Logitically EASY. Get more people certified and into their MOC scam.

DONE. ABR still gets their monies (with likely higher profit margin) and pretends to certify us as competent (with likely higher degree of confidence).

The in-person exam is a subjective archaic relic and needs to die a quick, painful death.

this is great and all, but not sure it’s happening by this fall, if the success of my conference calls is anything to go by.

 

[seper]

Step 3-style virtual cases exercise is doable. It'll will take ABR awhile to build it and to refine it. It will not be available in Fall 2020. So, they are in a bind.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Step 3-style virtual cases exercise is doable. It'll will take ABR awhile to build it and to refine it. It will not be available in Fall 2020. So, they are in a bind.

Crazy proposal:

End 4 board exams.

Have a single Step 3-esque written exam to be taken either at the end of residency or first year attending.

Include some radbio and physics pearls - i.e. how does radiation kill a cell? What happens to surface dose with increasing energy of electrons compared to photons? NEVER EVER EVER ASK AGAIN ABOUT SIGNALING PATHWAYS FOR A MINIMUM CLINICAL COMPETENCY EXAM OSTENSIBLY IN PLACE TO ENSURE PUBLIC SAFETY.

Problem solved.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Crazy proposal:

End 4 board exams.

Have a single Step 3-esque written exam to be taken either at the end of residency or first year attending.

Include some radbio and physics pearls - i.e. how does radiation kill a cell? What happens to surface dose with increasing energy of electrons compared to photons? NEVER EVER EVER ASK AGAIN ABOUT SIGNALING PATHWAYS FOR A MINIMUM CLINICAL COMPETENCY EXAM OSTENSIBLY IN PLACE TO ENSURE PUBLIC SAFETY.

Problem solved.

“There is something about a bureaucrat that does not like a poem”, said Gore Vidal. The ABR would not get paid for a poem, the crux of the issue.

if you ever get a call from ABR saying “im from the ABR and i am here to help” You must run. We must run.

like Christopher Mcdougall said “Every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up, it knows it must outrun the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning in Africa, a lion wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the slowest gazelle, or it will starve. It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.”

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

“There is something about a bureaucrat that does not like a poem”, said Gore Vidal. The ABR would not get paid for a poem, the crux of the issue.

if you ever get a call from ABR saying “im from the ABR and i am here to help” You must run. We must run.

like Christopher Mcdougall said “Every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up, it knows it must outrun the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning in Africa, a lion wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the slowest gazelle, or it will starve. It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.”

Ah true, I forgot about the real crux of my board exam proposal: allow the ABR to charge the sum total it normally charges for the 4 exams for the one exam. Encourage a "development fee" for the test to be paid as a bonus to the ABR C-suite crew.

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Crazy proposal:

End 4 board exams.

Have a single Step 3-esque written exam to be taken either at the end of residency or first year attending.

Include some radbio and physics pearls - i.e. how does radiation kill a cell? What happens to surface dose with increasing energy of electrons compared to photons? NEVER EVER EVER ASK AGAIN ABOUT SIGNALING PATHWAYS FOR A MINIMUM CLINICAL COMPETENCY EXAM OSTENSIBLY IN PLACE TO ENSURE PUBLIC SAFETY.

Problem solved.

Lee WR, Amdur RJ. A Call for Change in the ABR Initial Certification Examination in Radiation Oncology. Int J Radiat Oncol Biol Phys. 2019;104(1):17‐20. doi:10.1016/j.ijrobp.2018.12.046

 

[PhotonBomb]

Lee WR, Amdur RJ. A Call for Change in the ABR Initial Certification Examination in Radiation Oncology. Int J Radiat Oncol Biol Phys. 2019;104(1):17‐20. doi:10.1016/j.ijrobp.2018.12.046

what was your take on the Shah Editorial at the time, and has it changed since?

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Lee WR, Amdur RJ. A Call for Change in the ABR Initial Certification Examination in Radiation Oncology. Int J Radiat Oncol Biol Phys. 2019;104(1):17‐20. doi:10.1016/j.ijrobp.2018.12.046

was this guy named after a Civil War general or just coincidence?

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

what was your take on the Shah Editorial at the time, and has it changed since?

Separate issue but was mildly against program expansion back then and refused to increase the complement in the department where I was PD. Now the case for overtraining is a slam-dunk (can i use that phrase? pretty sure scarb will ding me for it). As i have said before the number to watch is US Seniors ranking RO and that number is falling off a cliff.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Lee WR, Amdur RJ. A Call for Change in the ABR Initial Certification Examination in Radiation Oncology. Int J Radiat Oncol Biol Phys. 2019;104(1):17‐20. doi:10.1016/j.ijrobp.2018.12.046

While I completely agree, this was essentially dismissed by Wallner/Kachnic and the other ABR shills: https://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016(19)30181-6/fulltext

The ABR has no interest in 'collaborating' as decreasing the number of exams will bring to light the reality of the ridiculousness of paying for 4 board exams on 3 separate days, and if those costs are added together for the purposes of one exam (as @elementaryschooleconomics suggests cheekily) will shine actual light on the situation and will bring pitchforks from more than just SDN and parts of twitter to their doorstep.

My favorite was the gaslighting line towards the end in their response:
"Practicing radiation oncologists owe a great debt of gratitude to the foresight of our founders, who elevated RO to a well-respected specialty in the house of medicine. Future generations of radiation oncologists should expect nothing less from us. "

I think we should separate and form ABRO. We'll have to buy the twitter account from that person though.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

ABRO handle is not for sale yet, im told, but there may be a chance!

 

[medgator]

While I completely agree, this was essentially dismissed by Wallner/Kachnic and the other ABR shills: https://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016(19)30181-6/fulltext

The ABR has no interest in 'collaborating' as decreasing the number of exams will bring to light the reality of the ridiculousness of paying for 4 board exams on 3 separate days, and if those costs are added together for the purposes of one exam (as @elementaryschooleconomics suggests cheekily) will shine actual light on the situation and will bring pitchforks from more than just SDN and parts of twitter to their doorstep.

My favorite was the gaslighting line towards the end in their response:
"Practicing radiation oncologists owe a great debt of gratitude to the foresight of our founders, who elevated RO to a well-respected specialty in the house of medicine. Future generations of radiation oncologists should expect nothing less from us. "

I think we should separate and form ABRO. We'll have to buy the twitter account from that person though.

You mean the FMGs and the folks with a pulse like Wallner that matched in the 70s and 80s?

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

While I completely agree, this was essentially dismissed by Wallner/Kachnic and the other ABR shills: https://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016(19)30181-6/fulltext

The ABR has no interest in 'collaborating' as decreasing the number of exams will bring to light the reality of the ridiculousness of paying for 4 board exams on 3 separate days, and if those costs are added together for the purposes of one exam (as @elementaryschooleconomics suggests cheekily) will shine actual light on the situation and will bring pitchforks from more than just SDN and parts of twitter to their doorstep.

My favorite was the gaslighting line towards the end in their response:
"Practicing radiation oncologists owe a great debt of gratitude to the foresight of our founders, who elevated RO to a well-respected specialty in the house of medicine. Future generations of radiation oncologists should expect nothing less from us. "

I think we should separate and form ABRO. We'll have to buy the twitter account from that person though.

The ABR gaslighting in general is just tremendous - and we are uniquely susceptible. As one of (if not the) smallest specialties you can match into directly after medical school, we have very little lobbying power from a sheer numbers perspective. The "keep your head down and get through it or get crushed" mentality is strong in RadOnc. This is why we're stuck with 4 board exams, two of which are essentially basic science.

In comparison, look at the USMLE Step I exam. Arguably, the "most important" exam in all of medicine for several decades, FINALLY made Pass/Fail. I would argue this was accomplished due to the sheer strength and number of voices. I think eliminating basic science board exams for a clinical specialty is much less controversial than making Step I Pass/Fail. If the 2018 Debacle followed by the COVID-19 pandemic doesn't force the ABR to examine the need and utility of making clinicians take the equivalent of poorly-designed PhD-candidate qualifying exams...literally nothing will.

While the oral boards are slightly harder to argue against (since those are somewhat common at least in the surgical world), I find the "implicit bias" concerns extremely compelling. To be honest, knowing some of the people in charge of this field - I find an "explicit bias" also compelling. It's disappointing that it took a global pandemic for this conversation to finally be elevated to the level that it has. However, I expect the ABR (and other senior leadership) to really dig their heels in about oral boards, while very similar arguments that were used against the USMLE Step I can be almost uniformly be applied here (bias, expense, utility, etc).

At the end of the day, I'm mostly left wondering about the real efficacy of the ABR. When I was in medical school, I essentially took "board certification" for granted. OF COURSE that was a good and righteous thing, necessary to practice medicine in America. I obviously can't speak for other specialties but - as it pertains to the ABR and Radiation Oncology - where is the evidence? Ostensibly, board certification through the ABR is supposed to protect the public from quacks and thieves. Is the current design successful in that? What's stopping us from examining the data?

What if we took a cohort of practicing RadOncs recently out of residency. It is my understanding you can practice as an attending with the "board eligible" moniker for at least 4 years after residency (assuming the 5 year clock of passing board exams starts at the end of PGY4). You could separate this group into three cohorts, randomly - those who passed all exams on the first attempt, those who failed exams but eventually passed them, and those who never passed all exams (probably a pretty small group). You could collect a representative sample of their case outcomes - toxicities, local recurrence, death - and then compare across the three groups. If the board exams do what they're supposed to do, I would hypothesize that the outcomes for those who passed all their exams on the first attempt should be better than the other two groups.

If the outcomes are roughly equivalent (as I suspect they are) - the current boarding system is not accomplishing what it should be. There should ALWAYS be barriers to protect the public - accredited residency, board certification, etc - but that DOES NOT MEAN we need to settle for a backwards system established through legacy.

Whether you agree with me or not on these specific points is immaterial - the only question we should be asking is "in America, is the current system in place to train and maintain the workforce of Radiation Oncologists operating in the most effective way possible?". Any answer other than "yes" means we are doing a disservice to our patients and society at large, and need to do better. We don't accept stagnation in our treatment regimens - why are we accepting stagnation in ourselves?

 

[ramsesthenice]

I hate the phrase OK Boomer but in this case I kinda get it. Paraphrasing a bit: “you should thank your leadership for making your field great!” 10 years ok, you could at least have a foot to stand on with that logic (though even that is taking a lot of credit for market forces out of their control which really made rad onc great and stacked with talent). But to continue to push us to be thankful for their “leadership” as the field is literally imploding before their eyes because of (failure of) actions directly tied to said leadership is beyond laughable. It’s a nice combination of tone deaf, arrogant, and ignorant. Too bad that seems to be a winning combination these days

 

[thecarbonionangle]

The ABR gaslighting in general is just tremendous - and we are uniquely susceptible. As one of (if not the) smallest specialties you can match into directly after medical school, we have very little lobbying power from a sheer numbers perspective. The "keep your head down and get through it or get crushed" mentality is strong in RadOnc. This is why we're stuck with 4 board exams, two of which are essentially basic science.

In comparison, look at the USMLE Step I exam. Arguably, the "most important" exam in all of medicine for several decades, FINALLY made Pass/Fail. I would argue this was accomplished due to the sheer strength and number of voices. I think eliminating basic science board exams for a clinical specialty is much less controversial than making Step I Pass/Fail. If the 2018 Debacle followed by the COVID-19 pandemic doesn't force the ABR to examine the need and utility of making clinicians take the equivalent of poorly-designed PhD-candidate qualifying exams...literally nothing will.

While the oral boards are slightly harder to argue against (since those are somewhat common at least in the surgical world), I find the "implicit bias" concerns extremely compelling. To be honest, knowing some of the people in charge of this field - I find an "explicit bias" also compelling. It's disappointing that it took a global pandemic for this conversation to finally be elevated to the level that it has. However, I expect the ABR (and other senior leadership) to really dig their heels in about oral boards, while very similar arguments that were used against the USMLE Step I can be almost uniformly be applied here (bias, expense, utility, etc).

At the end of the day, I'm mostly left wondering about the real efficacy of the ABR. When I was in medical school, I essentially took "board certification" for granted. OF COURSE that was a good and righteous thing, necessary to practice medicine in America. I obviously can't speak for other specialties but - as it pertains to the ABR and Radiation Oncology - where is the evidence? Ostensibly, board certification through the ABR is supposed to protect the public from quacks and thieves. Is the current design successful in that? What's stopping us from examining the data?

What if we took a cohort of practicing RadOncs recently out of residency. It is my understanding you can practice as an attending with the "board eligible" moniker for at least 4 years after residency (assuming the 5 year clock of passing board exams starts at the end of PGY4). You could separate this group into three cohorts, randomly - those who passed all exams on the first attempt, those who failed exams but eventually passed them, and those who never passed all exams (probably a pretty small group). You could collect a representative sample of their case outcomes - toxicities, local recurrence, death - and then compare across the three groups. If the board exams do what they're supposed to do, I would hypothesize that the outcomes for those who passed all their exams on the first attempt should be better than the other two groups.

If the outcomes are roughly equivalent (as I suspect they are) - the current boarding system is not accomplishing what it should be. There should ALWAYS be barriers to protect the public - accredited residency, board certification, etc - but that DOES NOT MEAN we need to settle for a backwards system established through legacy.

Whether you agree with me or not on these specific points is immaterial - the only question we should be asking is "in America, is the current system in place to train and maintain the workforce of Radiation Oncologists operating in the most effective way possible?". Any answer other than "yes" means we are doing a disservice to our patients and society at large, and need to do better. We don't accept stagnation in our treatment regimens - why are we accepting stagnation in ourselves?

Medicine itself is in the middle of a big fight over this issue. When the dust settles the question will be if anybody did anything about it or like you said followed "keep head down" mentality which for whatever reason is a big majority of our field to my frustration. We seem to attract some really catfish like tortoises with no bite. For those who have not been following Dr. Paul Teirstein and his leadership of NBPAS, I really recommend you watch these videos. In one he debates the ABIM and in the other our very own ABR president Dr. Valerie Jackson. He exposes the corruption by being direct, honest, respectful. We cannot equivocate about these issues.

MOC Debate National Board of Physicians and Surgeons

MOC Debate National Board of Physicians and Surgeons

nbpas.org

In another thread, I linked again the ongoing lawsuit against the ABR which has been re-filed. There are ongoing lawsuits against ABIM and neuro/psych boards as well. There are ways to donate to these efforts if you google it. Anybody with means can contribute anonymously.

I'm tired of putting my head down. Are YOU?

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Medicine itself is in the middle of a big fight over this issue. When the dust settles the question will be if anybody did anything about it or like you said followed "keep head down" mentality which for whatever reason is a big majority of our field to my frustration. We seem to attract some really catfish like tortoises with no bite. For those who have not been following Dr. Paul Teirstein and his leadership of NBPAS, I really recommend you watch these videos. In one he debates the ABIM and in the other our very own ABR president Dr. Valerie Jackson. He exposes the corruption by being direct, honest, respectful. We cannot equivocate about these issues.

MOC Debate National Board of Physicians and Surgeons

MOC Debate National Board of Physicians and Surgeons

nbpas.org

In another thread, I linked again the ongoing lawsuit against the ABR which has been re-filed. There are ongoing lawsuits against ABIM and neuro/psych boards as well. There are ways to donate to these efforts if you google it. Anybody with means can contribute anonymously.

I'm tired of putting my head down. Are YOU?

These are great links - I had no idea about this guy!

I remember first hearing about people who were taking issue with the structure of MOC when I was in medical school and at the time couldn't fathom why anyone would do that. I'm so disappointed with how naive I was back then. There definitely seems to be growing momentum (at least in the Social Media sphere) of people questioning the structure of testing and board certification in Medicine...I guess I find myself in that camp now.

Heads up!

 

[thecarbonionangle]

These are great links - I had no idea about this guy!

I remember first hearing about people who were taking issue with the structure of MOC when I was in medical school and at the time couldn't fathom why anyone would do that. I'm so disappointed with how naive I was back then. There definitely seems to be growing momentum (at least in the Social Media sphere) of people questioning the structure of testing and board certification in Medicine...I guess I find myself in that camp now.

Heads up!

what matters is you see the light now.

 

[radonconogs]

A slightly bigger cohort than us, hmm...





Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[thecarbonionangle]

A slightly bigger cohort than us, hmm...





Sent from my iPhone using SDN

If a surgeon decides to do something, they get it done. I'd take a surgeon any day over a rad onc as a team-mate going into battle

if a rad onc decides to do something, first think of 10 reasons why it can't be done. Then have committees and committees to discuss why it cannot be done, and in the end get nothing done!

 

[evilbooyaa]

A slightly bigger cohort than us, hmm...





Sent from my iPhone using SDN

ABR could simply rent ABS's exact same method for what we need to do.

*EDIT* - Reading the twitter thread, this appears to be for the ABS's WRITTEN exam, not their oral exam.

Somewhat less exciting, but perhaps could be used for rad bio/physics/clinical writtens.

 

[radoncgrad2019]

ABR could simply rent ABS's exact same method for what we need to do.

*EDIT* - Reading the twitter thread, this appears to be for the ABS's WRITTEN exam, not their oral exam.

Somewhat less exciting, but perhaps could be used for rad bio/physics/clinical writtens.

oh it's the written?

talk about BUZZ KILL

 

[evilbooyaa]

oh it's the written?

talk about BUZZ KILL

Still better than nothing - let PGY4s/5s get the written exams done in a safe, timely fashion in 2020.

But yes, ABS's orals have been cancelled for this year.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

If a surgeon decides to do something, they get it done. I'd take a surgeon any day over a rad onc as a team-mate going into battle

if a rad onc decides to do something, first think of 10 reasons why it can't be done. Then have committees and committees to discuss why it cannot be done, and in the end get nothing done!

Sounds like admin!

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Sounds like admin!

rad oncs make excellent bean counters.

 

[seper]

USMLE is moving Step 2CS to telehealth - that's is more applicable to RO Orals.

"Prior to COVID-19, the USMLE program was in the very early stages of exploring alternate formats and methods for delivery of the Step 2 CS exam, as part of overall efforts to enhance the USMLE. As a result of COVID-19, these plans have been accelerated and are focused on a testing solution that employs a telehealth model, where examinees and standardized patients would interact online, via a web browser. The USMLE program is aggressively assessing this solution, which will require significant redesign of the exam's content and delivery"

Recent Announcements | USMLE

www.usmle.org

 

[FrostyHammer]

If a surgeon decides to do something, they get it done. I'd take a surgeon any day over a rad onc as a team-mate going into battle

if a rad onc decides to do something, first think of 10 reasons why it can't be done. Then have committees and committees to discuss why it cannot be done, and in the end get nothing done!

I would never take a "cut first, think later" (which is their means to "getting it done" as mentioned above) individual as a teammate. ACOSOG and other surgical cooperative groups have no less bureaucracy than rad onc cooperative groups. Self-flagellation gets us nowhere.

 

[xrthopeful]

I would never take a "cut first, think later" (which is their means to "getting it done" as mentioned above) individual as a teammate. ACOSOG and other surgical cooperative groups have no less bureaucracy than rad onc cooperative groups. Self-flagellation gets us nowhere.

agreed. But try not take carbon ion’s post seriously. The majority of them are ‘for the lulz’

 

[thecarbonionangle]

I would never take a "cut first, think later" (which is their means to "getting it done" as mentioned above) individual as a teammate. ACOSOG and other surgical cooperative groups have no less bureaucracy than rad onc cooperative groups. Self-flagellation gets us nowhere.

disagree. would take surgeon any day. They also would not take us because most surgeons don’t respect rad oncs. We just draw circles and do what they tell us. We are the catfish at tumor board, and we love their crumbs that trickle down. We bend the knee. The truth hurts, i know, but it has got to be said, folks!

 

[medgator]

disagree. would take surgeon any day. They also would not take us because most surgeons don’t respect rad oncs. We just draw circles and do what they tell us. We are the catfish at tumor board, and we love their crumbs that trickle down. We bend the knee. The truth hurts, i know, but it has got to be said, folks!

Maybe you should start supporting them more? Who does your port/pegs for H&N? In big academic centers, sometimes it just ends up with IR, but out in the real world, those are easy, quick cases that help surgeons survive.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Maybe you should start supporting them more? Who does your port/pegs for H&N? In big academic centers, sometimes it just ends up with IR, but out in the real world, those are easy, quick cases that help surgeons survive.

i agree we all gotta eat but some people have better meals than others.

IR/GI/Surgery can do PEGs but 2/3 of those services actually ever rarely do them