RO Orals posptoned due to coronavirus

[scarbrtj]

i agree we all gotta eat but some people have better meals than others.

IR/GI/Surgery can do PEGs but 2/3 of those services actually ever rarely do them

Whew ain’t that right. Florida Cancer Specialists orders from the billion dollar tasting menu and only has to tip the waiter ~10%.
Catfish are tasty too; but who’s the noodler?

---

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[xrthopeful]

Maybe you should start supporting them more? Who does your port/pegs for H&N? In big academic centers, sometimes it just ends up with IR, but out in the real world, those are easy, quick cases that help surgeons survive.

ideally no one should be doing Pegs for HN often

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Whew ain’t that right. Florida Cancer Specialists orders from the billion dollar tasting menu and only has to tip the waiter ~10%.
Catfish are tasty too; but who’s the noodler?

in honour of Little Richard, may he RIP, he used to say “greed has taken the whole universe, and nobody is worried about their soul”. We live in some very bad times.

the feds are definitely the noodler. One day you hear a very loud knock and see a bunch of blue FBI jackets. The fatter the catfish, the better the noodler.

 

[Phantom1]

disagree. would take surgeon any day. They also would not take you because most surgeons don’t respect rad oncs. You just draw circles and do what they tell you. We are the catfish at tumor board, and we love their crumbs that trickle down. The truth hurts, i know, but it has got to be said, folks!

Sorry man, but you have pathetic attitude and really dont know what your talking about. Are you a resident or something?

Lets look at the major causes of cancer death: 1) Lung Cancer, 2) Prostate Cancer, 3) Breast Cancer, 4) Colorectal cancer, and 5) Pancreatic Cancer.

For lung cancer do you think the surgeons have any real role in advanced disease?? They can grasp onto straws and maybe do a left sided pneumonectomy but not a right sided pneumonectomy? Its a joke, the STANDARD OF CARE, is radiation therapy with a low dose of radiosensitizing chemo followed by immunotherapy. In that regimen the radiation therapy is doing the majority of the cell kill, so read it YOU as a rad onc are doing the majority of the effective treatment.

Ok next what about prostate cancer, so do you think there is a great role for surgery in high risk or advanced disease?? No. Surgeons will certainly operate to support their salaries, but as you should know the rates of positive margins, ECE, SVI, etc are such that anyone with intermediate or high risk disease over 65 (which is many patients) should probably just do radiation with ADT. So that leaves low risk, which can be surveiled anyway. Would you want your 75 y/o grandpa undergoing a major surgery with recovery and becoming incontinent for a week? Are med onc's really needed for the curative treatment for prostate cancer? NO. Rad Onc's can give ADT just as easily.

Ok what about breast cancer? Neoadjuvant treatment, followed by surg +/- XRT. XRT has been demonstrated to improve OS. Main reason surg still has a role is because breast is easy to remove. You could argue that with the pathCR rates of neoadjuvant combos now whether we could just do neoadjuvant chemo followed by consolidative XRT and avoid a disfiguring surgery. Also bilateral mastectomies for DCIS? That is malpractice in my book and a horrific disfiguring unnecessary surgery for these women, pushed on women by plastic and general surgeons who are not adequately counseling their patients in those cases.

Ok what about colorectal cancer? Well neoadjuvant chemoRT followed by surgery. I think each modality plays a relatively equivalent role here, so you can pick your poison.

Ok what about Pancreatic cancer? Do you think surgery has a any real role in locally advanced disease? No. Majority of patients diagnosed with pancreatic cancer have metastatic disease when they walk in the door. Local therapy can help to slow or stop the primary from spewing out more mets, but this disease is going to be dominated by systemic therapy until we have an actual screening test so patients stop presenting due to symptomatic T3/T4M1 disease.

Ok what about Head and Neck cancer, do you think surgery has any real role in advanced HPV+ Oropharynx which is a majority of patients? CHEMORADS is a standard of care, and here do you think the med onc is really doing anything special giving a few doses of cisplatin according to some automated EPIC orderset?

Look I'm obviously grossly oversimplyfing things here, but the point is in academic or privates for that matter its a cage fight for power. Our specialty has historically let others take the lead and given up power to let others run the show, but that is many times our own doing and due to people with attitudes like yours. I've been in many tumor boards from top institutions where the Rad Onc RUNS the tumor board and discusses every patient and comes to a consensus on management. Its a decision you can make to represent and stand up. If you give up with that attitude before you even start what do you expect will happen? Some med onc's and surgeons highly respect rad onc's and if you show them you are more than capable they may respect you more, especially when they know the best treatment for many of their patients involves radiation.

 

[xrthopeful]

I encourage the carbon ion angle to take more initiative and self respect when he or she graduates residency

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Sorry man, but you have pathetic attitude and really dont know what your talking about. Are you a resident or something?

Lets look at the major causes of cancer death: 1) Lung Cancer, 2) Prostate Cancer, 3) Breast Cancer, 4) Colorectal cancer, and 5) Pancreatic Cancer.

For lung cancer do you think the surgeons have any real role in advanced disease?? They can grasp onto straws and maybe do a left sided pneumonectomy but not a right sided pneumonectomy? Its a joke, the STANDARD OF CARE, is radiation therapy with a low dose of radiosensitizing chemo followed by immunotherapy. In that regimen the radiation therapy is doing the majority of the cell kill, so read it YOU as a rad onc are doing the majority of the effective treatment.

Ok next what about prostate cancer, so do you think there is a great role for surgery in high risk or advanced disease?? No. Surgeons will certainly operate to support their salaries, but as you should know the rates of positive margins, ECE, SVI, etc are such that anyone with intermediate or high risk disease over 65 (which is many patients) should probably just do radiation with ADT. So that leaves low risk, which can be surveiled anyway. Would you want your 75 y/o grandpa undergoing a major surgery with recovery and becoming incontinent for a week? Are med onc's really needed for the curative treatment for prostate cancer? NO. Rad Onc's can give ADT just as easily.

Ok what about breast cancer? Neoadjuvant treatment, followed by surg +/- XRT. XRT has been demonstrated to improve OS. Main reason surg still has a role is because breast is easy to remove. You could argue that with the pathCR rates of neoadjuvant combos now whether we could just do neoadjuvant chemo followed by consolidative XRT and avoid a disfiguring surgery. Also bilateral mastectomies for DCIS? That is malpractice in my book and a horrific disfiguring unnecessary surgery for these women, pushed on women by plastic and general surgeons who are not adequately counseling their patients in those cases.

Ok what about colorectal cancer? Well neoadjuvant chemoRT followed by surgery. I think each modality plays a relatively equivalent role here, so you can pick your poison.

Ok what about Pancreatic cancer? Do you think surgery has a any real role in locally advanced disease? No. Majority of patients diagnosed with pancreatic cancer have metastatic disease when they walk in the door. Local therapy can help to slow or stop the primary from spewing out more mets, but this disease is going to be dominated by systemic therapy until we have an actual screening test so patients stop presenting due to symptomatic T3/T4M1 disease.

Ok what about Head and Neck cancer, do you think surgery has any real role in advanced HPV+ Oropharynx which is a majority of patients? CHEMORADS is a standard of care, and here do you think the med onc is really doing anything special giving a few doses of cisplatin according to some automated EPIC orderset?

Look I'm obviously grossly oversimplyfing things here, but the point is in academic or privates for that matter its a cage fight for power. Our specialty has historically let others take the lead and given up power to let others run the show, but that is many times our own doing and due to people with attitudes like yours. I've been in many tumor boards from top institutions where the Rad Onc RUNS the tumor board and discusses every patient and comes to a consensus on management. Its a decision you can make to represent and stand up. If you give up with that attitude before you even start what do you expect will happen? Some med onc's and surgeons highly respect rad onc's and if you show them you are more than capable they may respect you more, especially when they know the best treatment for many of their patients involves radiation.

i’ll ignore your personal attacks, which add nothing to what you’re saying and highlight your insecurities. I don’t really know what you’re arguing against. I think many people have their identity highly wrapped around all these things we “know” so they obviously take it personal. Guess what? The med onc doesn’t care you know how to dose cisplatin or 5FU. you’re never going to give it. The urologist will give ADT if they want to, otherwise you may never get a prostate again.


All you did was lecture on things where radiation may play a role. In the end, if surgeon is going to operate they do,it doesn’t matter what you say about prostate cancer or whatever. If an ENT wants to do TORS they do. If a med onc decides that the pancreatic data is absolute crap, and just give chemo, they give chemo. If the liver transplant surgeon decides he does not want you to “SBRT” that lesion because it will make his surgery more difficult, it simple does not happen. If a med onc decides to give FLOAT and not send you an esophagus, then you don’t get it. List goes on. This is not difficult, would encourage paying attention as well as knowing the difference between “your” and “you’re”.

Reality is reality and i don’t need your advice or your condescension. I actually think the field is going bad because of people like YOU!!!! Ugh!!!

 

[deleted774703]

Sorry man, but you have pathetic attitude and really dont know what your talking about. Are you a resident or something?

Lets look at the major causes of cancer death: 1) Lung Cancer, 2) Prostate Cancer, 3) Breast Cancer, 4) Colorectal cancer, and 5) Pancreatic Cancer.

For lung cancer do you think the surgeons have any real role in advanced disease?? They can grasp onto straws and maybe do a left sided pneumonectomy but not a right sided pneumonectomy? Its a joke, the STANDARD OF CARE, is radiation therapy with a low dose of radiosensitizing chemo followed by immunotherapy. In that regimen the radiation therapy is doing the majority of the cell kill, so read it YOU as a rad onc are doing the majority of the effective treatment.

Ok next what about prostate cancer, so do you think there is a great role for surgery in high risk or advanced disease?? No. Surgeons will certainly operate to support their salaries, but as you should know the rates of positive margins, ECE, SVI, etc are such that anyone with intermediate or high risk disease over 65 (which is many patients) should probably just do radiation with ADT. So that leaves low risk, which can be surveiled anyway. Would you want your 75 y/o grandpa undergoing a major surgery with recovery and becoming incontinent for a week? Are med onc's really needed for the curative treatment for prostate cancer? NO. Rad Onc's can give ADT just as easily.

Ok what about breast cancer? Neoadjuvant treatment, followed by surg +/- XRT. XRT has been demonstrated to improve OS. Main reason surg still has a role is because breast is easy to remove. You could argue that with the pathCR rates of neoadjuvant combos now whether we could just do neoadjuvant chemo followed by consolidative XRT and avoid a disfiguring surgery. Also bilateral mastectomies for DCIS? That is malpractice in my book and a horrific disfiguring unnecessary surgery for these women, pushed on women by plastic and general surgeons who are not adequately counseling their patients in those cases.

Ok what about colorectal cancer? Well neoadjuvant chemoRT followed by surgery. I think each modality plays a relatively equivalent role here, so you can pick your poison.

Ok what about Pancreatic cancer? Do you think surgery has a any real role in locally advanced disease? No. Majority of patients diagnosed with pancreatic cancer have metastatic disease when they walk in the door. Local therapy can help to slow or stop the primary from spewing out more mets, but this disease is going to be dominated by systemic therapy until we have an actual screening test so patients stop presenting due to symptomatic T3/T4M1 disease.

Ok what about Head and Neck cancer, do you think surgery has any real role in advanced HPV+ Oropharynx which is a majority of patients? CHEMORADS is a standard of care, and here do you think the med onc is really doing anything special giving a few doses of cisplatin according to some automated EPIC orderset?

Look I'm obviously grossly oversimplyfing things here, but the point is in academic or privates for that matter its a cage fight for power. Our specialty has historically let others take the lead and given up power to let others run the show, but that is many times our own doing and due to people with attitudes like yours. I've been in many tumor boards from top institutions where the Rad Onc RUNS the tumor board and discusses every patient and comes to a consensus on management. Its a decision you can make to represent and stand up. If you give up with that attitude before you even start what do you expect will happen? Some med onc's and surgeons highly respect rad onc's and if you show them you are more than capable they may respect you more, especially when they know the best treatment for many of their patients involves radiation.

Much of what you said is true but you’re being overly optimistic

Despite the evidence showing RT utility, our overall cases are going down

Yes cases, not just fxn

No other speciality in medicine cannabilizes itself like we do. Academics constantly running trials to reduce our money

Yes it’s better for the patients and that’s what I’ll prescribe but let’s be honest. American hypofxn studies arent done for patients. They are for self promotion

Other than that, I 100% support your position that RO need to be more assertive. But that’s the whole point, as a field we are not...

 

[thecarbonionangle]

I realize my very bearish views about our field are highly unpopular among some of you. It really deeply needles some people’s self worth and image of prestige. I get many PMs from people who agree with me. I am here to unequivocally state my views and perhaps represent others. I will not give any personal details about where i am in training or full time work to people who are clearly possibly petty and vindictive and would love to destroy me. This is why i love sdn even someone like me can have a voice, even if im some sort of vermin in some peoples view. Reasonable people can disagree and i will defend your right to state something that i strongly vehemently disagree with. Call me “pathetic” or whatever you want, “top institution” or not.

i would not recommend rad onc to most people at the moment and that is not about to change anytime soon and i would strongly encourage younger residents to get out while they can. Feel free to chew on that.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

I realize my very bearish views about our field are highly unpopular among some of you. It really deeply needles some people’s self worth and image of prestige. I get many PMs from people who agree with me. I am here to unequivocally state my views and perhaps represent others. I will not give any personal details about where i am in training or full time work to people who are clearly possibly petty and vindictive and would love to destroy me. This is why i love sdn even someone like me can have a voice, even if im some sort of vermin in some peoples view. Reasonable people can disagree and i will defend your right to state something that i strongly vehemently disagree with. Call me “pathetic” or whatever you want, “top institution” or not.

i would not recommend rad onc to most people at the moment and that is not about to change anytime soon and i would strongly encourage younger residents to get out while they can. Feel free to chew on that.

 

[scarbrtj]

No other speciality in medicine cannabilizes itself like we do. Academics constantly running trials to reduce our money

"They have... wounded the breasts that gave them suck against those cannibals who feed upon the flesh and are drunk with the blood of their own brethren. They have set the kingdom on fire to roast their own eggs. Restless spirits who can no longer live... stung with a perpetual itch of changing and innovating*, transforming... our well-tempered Monarchy into a mad kind of kakistocracy".
- Paul Gosnold

*emphasis mine

 

[Phantom1]

[/QUOTE]

I realize my very bearish views about our field are highly unpopular among some of you. It really deeply needles some people’s self worth and image of prestige. I get many PMs from people who agree with me. I am here to unequivocally state my views and perhaps represent others. I will not give any personal details about where i am in training or full time work to people who are clearly possibly petty and vindictive and would love to destroy me. This is why i love sdn even someone like me can have a voice, even if im some sort of vermin in some peoples view. Reasonable people can disagree and i will defend your right to state something that i strongly vehemently disagree with. Call me “pathetic” or whatever you want, “top institution” or not.

i would not recommend rad onc to most people at the moment and that is not about to change anytime soon and i would strongly encourage younger residents to get out while they can. Feel free to chew on that.

I dont think your vermin and I didn’t call you pathetic, I dont even know you. I was pointing out that your attitude is pathetic. Posting how you think we are bottom feeders and catfish is not productive and a bad attitude. Do you not think that attitude will reflect or come through on your interviews and colleagues? Sure there are significant problems with our field no doubt, but it is possible to correct these problems.

I guess it comes down to how can you expect anyone to respect you if you don’t respect yourself? Your a doctor and a Rad Onc. You’ll find a good paying job. Maybe worst case you will have to do a fellowship or start as an instructor, but its not the end of the world. Many other subspecialties have much longer training paths than ours, ie 6-8 years versus 5.

 

[scarbrtj]

Posting how you think we are bottom feeders and catfish is not productive and a bad attitude.

You know it was Ed Halperin a rad onc “luminary” who first equated catfish and rad oncs

DEFINE_ME

 

[FrostyHammer]

disagree. would take surgeon any day. They also would not take us because most surgeons don’t respect rad oncs. We just draw circles and do what they tell us. We are the catfish at tumor board, and we love their crumbs that trickle down. We bend the knee. The truth hurts, i know, but it has got to be said, folks!

View attachment 305727

Not buying it. Unity is the strength of any group of living beings. Though I may or may not agree with everyone on this forum about some nuances of cancer patient management, and I don't know anyone on this forum, at the end of the day I will always stick up for "my people" - you all, my fellow rad oncs. The tyranny caused by other fields like surgery on rad onc is amplified if there is disunity within ourselves. Statements that sow disunity among ourselves is already dividing us, and thus begs others to (further) conquer us.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

You know it was Ed Halperin a rad onc “luminary” who first equated catfish and rad oncs

DEFINE_ME

halperin: rad onc are catfish—->”luminary guy.”

me: rad onc are catfish—>“know nothing bad attitude,pathetic, are you even a rad onc, bad person, Have you even sat at top institution tumor board like me??“


No worries im pretty used to the swamp these days!!

 

[medgator]

You know it was Ed Halperin a rad onc “luminary” who first equated catfish and rad oncs

DEFINE_ME

He accepted second tier status in the medical pecking order as the status quo. Doesn't mean we all do. You know the kind of folk that used to match rad onc decades ago....

 

[goodbyeABR]

Still better than nothing - let PGY4s/5s get the written exams done in a safe, timely fashion in 2020.

But yes, ABS's orals have been cancelled for this year.

Just to bring this thread back on track, FYI looks like surgery will also be switching to virtual for their oral exam as well... Details pending

 

[scarbrtj]

Just to bring this thread back on track, FYI looks like surgery will also be switching to virtual for their oral exam as well... Details pending

Ken developing real habit of making "sorry but actually this will not work in rad onc" tweets that are shown almost immediately wrong.

 

[DebtRising]

it is the same guy who implied those of us who had great board scores and field specific published research and multiple rotations were/are less dedicated than someone who soaped in after not matching another field (no hate to said soapee’s, make your choices eyes wide open). What an advocate

 

[seper]

First heard this (almost verbatim) from a surgeon at a Tumor Board in 2008

You know it was Ed Halperin a rad onc “luminary” who first equated catfish and rad oncs

DEFINE_ME

 

[medgator]

it is the same guy who implied those of us who had great board scores and field specific published research and multiple rotations were/are less dedicated than someone who soaped in after not matching another field (no hate to said soapee’s, make your choices eyes wide open). What an advocate

Yup

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Yup

WTF? How does this data suggest anything about quality? The number and percentage of US Senior Medical Students that have participated in the match has fallen the last two years. This finding is more consistent with a decrease in quality.

 

[radoncgrad2019]

Neha Vapiwala’s stated goal when she took over RRC is to increase requirements for current programs and raise the barrier of entry for new programs such that the quality of programs goes up and expansion is curbed

I suspect that is what KO is getting at

 

[medgator]

WTF? How does this data suggest anything about quality? The number and percentage of US Senior Medical Students that have participated in the match has fallen the last two years. This finding is more consistent with a decrease in quality.

KO is a master gaslighter....

 

[medgator]

Neha Vapiwala’s stated goal when she took over RRC is to increase requirements for current programs and raise the barrier of entry for new programs such that the quality of programs goes up and expansion is curbed

I suspect that is what KO is getting at

The chart he quoted in his tweet does not suggest that

 

[radoncgrad2019]

The chart he quoted in his tweet does not suggest that

‘Trends in RO Programs’ also with chart showing decline in number of Programs

it seems clear to me that his tweet is about programs?

 

[medgator]

‘Trends in RO Programs’ also with chart showing decline in number of Programs

it seems clear to me that his tweet is about programs?

No change from 2015 to 2020. 91 programs. Slots went up. Seriously WTF are you trying to get at? Are you really not a shill PD account, possibly for KO? It's very hard for anyone reading that to think otherwise

 

[thecarbonionangle]

First heard this (almost verbatim) from a surgeon at a Tumor Board in 2008

surgeons understand the pecking order

 

[radoncgrad2019]

Sigh. You can say you disagree with him and that you want to see multiple years in a row. Fine.

But he is clearly talking about the fact that the number of programs went down this year. Again - this is clear based on the fact that he says that literally in the tweet. Also because this is what Vapiwala’s stated goal was when she took over a year ago.

I hope the trend continues

 

[medgator]

Sigh. You can say you disagree with him and that you want to see multiple years in a row. Fine.

But he is clearly talking about the fact that the number of programs went down this year. Again - this is clear based on the fact that he says that literally in the tweet. Also because this is what Vapiwala’s stated goal was when she took over a year ago.

I hope the trend continues

While spots go up? The funniest part is you won't even admit that the number of programs in 2015 and 2020 are the exact same!

Looks like KO isn't the only gaslighter around here...

 

[radoncgrad2019]

While spots go up? The funniest part is you won't even admit that the number of programs in 2015 and 2020 are the exact same!

Looks like KO isn't the only gaslighter around here...

dude of course they are the same, why is that something to admit to, you don’t admit to facts, facts are facts. I’m not denying that in any way. I’m literally just explaining to you his tweet. You’re a bit odd

 

[deleted774703]

Yup

Lmao a 1% decrease in total spots over 1 year is not a trend

ADROP needs a major shift. Every time KO talks on their behalf I just LOL

Vapiwala I have respect for though. She seems to be doing her best to help situation.

SCAROP the biggest offenders IMO. Just look at Potters letter earlier this year in Red J

 

[GapCalc]

Any whispers/rumors/hunches about whether or not oral boards will take place in October?

I have 2 friends from med school (not rad onc) who are on faculty faculty at different academic health systems, and both are being told there will be no work-related travel through the end of 2020. They said it was a hospital-wide policy.

If it turns out at least a few academic systems prohibit work-related travel, I would suspect in-person oral boards aren't happening in October. If only there was a way to do boards 'virtually' using a network of computers...

 

[seper]

Based on what other organizations are officially communicating (like ACR), I have a hunch that face-to-face orals meeting in October will not happen.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Based on what other organizations are officially communicating (like ACR), I have a hunch that face-to-face orals meeting in October will not happen.

it is doubtful to me without knowing anything, just a guess, that they happen at all for like the next 1-2 years. The winter could be a disaster with people getting flu and covid, lots of models predicting "dark winter". Vaccine is possibly like 2 years away. Seems like a bad idea to have people crammed into a hotel hallway from room to room peeing a lot from stress. The way i see it is the ABR is going to get super backed up, and unless people think outside the box things won't be cleared up anytime soon.

 

[deleted605854]

I don't think the the oral exam will take place in October. I think all the other boards will hop on board the virtual testing train and that may or may not pressure the ABR to step up.

Vaccine wise? We may never have a "good vaccine". We don't know the success rate with regards to how well these new fangled DNA/RNA vaccines confer immunity. What if you needed a booster for it every so often? It would make it out of reach for so many people.

I've resigned myself to the fact that this has effectively upended civilization and that most leaders in any kind of leadership position will not or can not make the decisions necessary to mitigate things.

Happy to be proven wrong

 

[thecarbonionangle]

I don't think the the oral exam will take place in October. I think all the other boards will hop on board the virtual testing train and that may or may not pressure the ABR to step up.

Vaccine wise? We may never have a "good vaccine". We don't know the success rate with regards to how well these new fangled DNA/RNA vaccines confer immunity. What if you needed a booster for it every so often? It would make it out of reach for so many people.

I've resigned myself to the fact that this has effectively upended civilization and that most leaders in any kind of leadership position will not or can not make the decisions necessary to mitigate things.

Happy to be proven wrong

Maybe im wrong but I heard on the radio we actually have never or rarely been successful in designing a vaccine for a coronavirus. This may have to do with no previous need. This absolutely will upend civilization. In the end you can't keep things locked up forever despite multiple waves to come, and this will lead to people getting exposed and many people dying, as well as many people getting sick or not but living. This will be the new normal as places like China are not good citizens of the world and continue to feed the world with pandemics. This will not be the last pandemic during our lifetime. Many more to come. Lots of things will never be the same again.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

I'm amazed how many times I have to say this to people, but... pandemics are bad. There usually aren't good or easy solutions, and that's not really anyone's fault. People die. Economies collapse. It's awful. You do what you can, but there is a reason we dread this situation and make horror-ish/zombie movies about it.

 

[RadOncMegatron]

Any whispers/rumors/hunches about whether or not oral boards will take place in October?

I have 2 friends from med school (not rad onc) who are on faculty faculty at different academic health systems, and both are being told there will be no work-related travel through the end of 2020. They said it was a hospital-wide policy.

If it turns out at least a few academic systems prohibit work-related travel, I would suspect in-person oral boards aren't happening in October. If only there was a way to do boards 'virtually' using a network of computers...

You gotta give the right incentives:

In order to get this done you will need to get a NRG sponsored pilot trial where the examiners will be the authors and then you will see the virtual oral boards up and running in no time. Primary endpoint will be examiner satisfaction, make it easy to achieve like 80% power, 90% CI, one tailed p <0.10. Secondary endpoint will be % of examiners who were able to wear sweats/PJs without being noticed.

Maybe even get a virtual oral presentation (late-breaking abstract) at this year's ASTRO.

 

[metallica81788]

If they don't take place in October, that's okay. My initial reactions were short-sighted before this whole situation exploded. I understand even if this will be hanging over my head potentially for another year (years?). I'd prefer if they just passed us...

However, if orals are not taking place in October, ABR needs to let people know ASAP. What is not okay is them stringing us along month by month without a firm solution or direction. People (not me) have probably already resumed more intense studying at this point. This test is based on timing and it was already disrupted once for many. This is a chance to change the way the specialty does things, whether it's doing away with this test or changing to virtual.

 

[deleted941485]

If they don't take place in October, that's okay. My initial reactions were short-sighted before this whole situation exploded. I understand even if this will be hanging over my head potentially for another year (years?). I'd prefer if they just passed us...

However, if orals are not taking place in October, ABR needs to let people know ASAP. What is not okay is them stringing us along month by month without a firm solution or direction. People (not me) have probably already resumed more intense studying at this point. This test is based on timing and it was already disrupted once for many. This is a chance to change the way the specialty does things, whether it's doing away with this test or changing to virtual.

View attachment 306331

I can see them attempting virtual meetings upfront and maybe even sticking with that long term more than I believe that they will simply do away with the oral exam altogether.

 

[seper]

Agree, if anyone with ABR reading this, start communicate oral boards plans ASAP.

If they don't take place in October, that's okay. My initial reactions were short-sighted before this whole situation exploded. I understand even if this will be hanging over my head potentially for another year (years?). I'd prefer if they just passed us...

However, if orals are not taking place in October, ABR needs to let people know ASAP. What is not okay is them stringing us along month by month without a firm solution or direction. People (not me) have probably already resumed more intense studying at this point. This test is based on timing and it was already disrupted once for many. This is a chance to change the way the specialty does things, whether it's doing away with this test or changing to virtual.

View attachment 306331

 

[Grubbe-a-dub-dub]

Yes please ABR - send something soon. The last correspondence mentioned that they will send something in July, but that is not enough time to change call/ vacation/ life schedules once again. I would like to move on from this annoyance.

 

[2014XRT]

No one should plan on taking boards this October in person

it simply is not going to happen
Don’t waste your time studying

 

[taserlaser]

Not only have the Canadians scrapped their orals for this year, but it sounds like they are holding a national vote across all specialties on whether to scrap everything all together for this year. There was a request from about 5% of all specialty membership for a special meeting which is to happen late May. In the meantime, they have committed to a 6 week lead time prior to their written which at present are tentatively for September. There exists a possible future where this year’s northern colleagues go straight into independent practice without exams.

 

[seper]

there is chance they are trying to scrape together a virtual exam, but probability of success is slim


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[scarbrtj]

There exists a possible future where this year’s northern colleagues go straight into independent practice without exams.

What good were all these standards (timely treatment instigation, anti-telemedicine rules, physician supervision, board examination frequency, and on and on) when they can be dropped so easily in times of change or stress?
Welcome to The Astandard Age.

 

[taserlaser]

What good were all these standards (timely treatment instigation, anti-telemedicine rules, physician supervision, board examination frequency, and on and on) when they can be dropped so easily in times of change or stress?
Welcome to The Astandard Age.

The grantors of licenses have said that they would require some formal assessment, hence the written exams remaining at present. But there is a promoted formal discussion. Also keep in mind this is for surgery, internal medicine, everything up there, not just RO. It would be quite an extraordinary decision if undertook. I personally don’t think it is likely but neither did I think I would be practicing amidst a pandemic.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

No word yet on orals, but December now for writtens.

Oh boy ABR I sure hope there's no second wave of shutdowns in the Fall...

 

[seper]

View attachment 306669

No word yet on orals, but December now for writtens.

Oh boy ABR I sure hope there's no second wave of shutdowns in the Fall...

I suppose these can be potentially done at home (“Pearson Proctor” or something like that?)


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[elementaryschooleconomics]

I suppose these can be potentially done at home (“Pearson Proctor” or something like that?)


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I would personally much prefer that option - I would like to choose to believe they are going to discuss that option, and haven't just closed the door on it out of hand.

This is the ABR though sooooooo...