Rocky-Vista and its aftermath

[Oasis105112]

August 25th (this coming saturday) is the big day when AOA will approve RVU's provisional accreditation.

This is going to be a milestone of osteopathic profession, for good or for bad.

I forsee that once RVU is approved, there will be more for-profit COM showing up. It won't surprise me if there are 3-4 new for-profit schools being started per year.

There are quite a few of Carribean MD school investors and administrators already with skills and experience to open DO school on US soil. I am sure St. George, Ross, or even University of Antiqua have a lot of cash reserve to be invested. It is going to be more profitable than having the school in Carribbean since it is easier to recruit students in the US who do not want to leave the country.

This is going to create a floodgate situation or a Caribbean school Gold Rush. It is the same model as their existing school.

I am watching this topic with great interest, since I think it will really change the medical education in the US.

By the way, I hear a lot of opposing voices for RUV, but is there anyone with committement to actually show up to the meeting on August 25th?

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[Fin-Nor]

a lot of good points oasis.

August 25th (this coming saturday) is the big day when AOA will approve RVU's provisional accreditation.

This is going to be a milestone of osteopathic profession, for good or for bad.

I forsee that once RVU is approved, there will be more for-profit COM showing up. It won't surprise me if there are 3-4 new for-profit schools being started per year.

There are quite a few of Carribean MD school investors and administrators already with skills and experience to open DO school on US soil. I am sure St. George, Ross, or even University of Antiqua have a lot of cash reserve to be invested. It is going to be more profitable than having the school in Carribbean since it is easier to recruit students in the US who do not want to leave the country.

This is going to create a floodgate situation or a Caribbean school Gold Rush. It is the same model as their existing school.

I am watching this topic with great interest, since I think it will really change the medical education in the US.

By the way, I hear a lot of opposing voices for RUV, but is there anyone with committement to actually show up to the meeting on August 25th?

 

[DO Anes]

I have submitted written comments to COCA and offered to give oral testimony, but was not invited to attend. You are quite right about the Caribbean gold rush. The LCME is watching this closely, as is the US Department of Education. At the very least, this will illustrate, in a dramatic and generally unfair way, the inferior accreditation standards for osteopathic medical schools. All osteopathic physicians will be discredited by these mercenaries who have hijacked our profession with the help of a few well paid collaborators. Many call me alarmist, but in a worst-case scenario, the entire profession goes down as third party payers simply decide to stop paying for "inferior" physicians. Too far fetched? CMS is already halting payments for iatrogenic complications, some not always preventable. This health care system is running out of money and when the choice has to be made about paying a physician from a non-profit MD school or a product of the Rocky Vista Corporation, who do you think will be chosen? The leaders of our organizations have done us all a disservice. No one is willing to speak out at the AOA. Either their pockets are lined and they don't to miss their "piece of the action", or they are afraid of the Stalinist culture that COCA has imposed on the schools. Many of my colleagues have been warned by their deans not to speak out for fear of retalition by COCA.
How sad and pathetic that history will remember osteopathic medicine as the profession that sold out our patients for a few pieces of silver and opened the flood gates to this travesty.

George Mychaskiw II, DO, FAAP

 

[Old_Mil]

I have submitted written comments to COCA and offered to give oral testimony, but was not invited to attend. You are quite right about the Caribbean gold rush. The LCME is watching this closely, as is the US Department of Education. At the very least, this will illustrate, in a dramatic and generally unfair way, the inferior accreditation standards for osteopathic medical schools. All osteopathic physicians will be discredited by these mercenaries who have hijacked our profession with the help of a few well paid collaborators. Many call me alarmist, but in a worst-case scenario, the entire profession goes down as third party payers simply decide to stop paying for "inferior" physicians. Too far fetched? CMS is already halting payments for iatrogenic complications, some not always preventable. This health care system is running out of money and when the choice has to be made about paying a physician from a non-profit MD school or a product of the Rocky Vista Corporation, who do you think will be chosen? The leaders of our organizations have done us all a disservice. No one is willing to speak out at the AOA. Either their pockets are lined and they don't to miss their "piece of the action", or they are afraid of the Stalinist culture that COCA has imposed on the schools. Many of my colleagues have been warned by their deans not to speak out for fear of retalition by COCA.
How sad and pathetic that history will remember osteopathic medicine as the profession that sold out our patients for a few pieces of silver and opened the flood gates to this travesty.

George Mychaskiw II, DO, FAAP

Dr. Mychaskiw,

Given where this has gone, what are the chances of getting the AMA on board and lobbying the congress to pass a blanket ban on for profit medical education in the United States?

I'm guessing the AMA is a bigger dog than COCA, and many DOs are members. If we've tried going through the "usual" channels, and they've exhibited their usual degree of unresponsiveness, perhaps its time for an end run.

 

[Oasis105112]

This is not going to happen. AMA is not bigger dog than COCA, it is just a different dog. If DO members' discontent cannot end it, how can outsider interfere?

 

[Old_Mil]

This is not going to happen. AMA is not bigger dog than COCA, it is just a different dog. If DO members' discontent cannot end it, how can outsider interfere?

Because the AMA has a great deal of experience lobbying congress on various issues. I'm guessing that COCA, as an academic institution, has none. It would appear that a federal ban on for profit medical schools would be something that the organization could get behind. DO discontent can't end it because neither the COCA nor the AOA give a damn what actual DOs want.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, and legislation is an option. Another is a class action suit by DOs against COCA.

 

[Oasis105112]

Can AMA lobbying stop COCA in the next 5 days?

Class action lawsuite, while impressive, is unrealistic. Who will file the lawsuite for no economic gain? I certainly wouldn't. Who is goint to pay for the lawyer?

 

[DO Anes]

The most recent president of the AMA is an old friend and we have discussed this. They, the LCME and the US Department of Education are watching COCA to see what happens. The for-profit hounds are at the door and there are numerous daily requests being made of our schools to enter into for-profit ventures. I am not sure that the AMA wants to come to the rescue of a profession that is unwilling to defend itself. If the for-profits go to the LCME, they will fight vigorously, but given the high standards of the LCME, it is far easier to go osteopathic through COCA. On one hand the AMA is taking a chance on the physician market being flooded with DO's. On the other hand, however, there is the very real possibility that DO's become super chiropractors when the GME dries up. Allopathic school enrollment is increasing and will take up many of the available GME slots, still capped at 1997 levels and with no sign of change. Indeed, CMS wants to get out of paying for GME entirely. So what happens to the DO products of the for-profits when the residencies dry up. Osteopathic GME? You know what happens, osteopathic medicine becomes a second-rate profession equivalent to some sort of trade school. Oh, and hospital privlieges disappear shortly after GME dries up. The behavior of our leadership in this matter is totally irresponsible and short-sighted. Of course, the real estate investors who own Rocky Vista don't care about osteopathy or even medicine. It is just more profitable to be in the medical student business than in the manufacturing of some other commodity.

GM

 

[lastchanceDO]

It's unfortunate that DO profession is going this way, but I have talked to some faculty member at our school and know of colorado school's hiring professors from other DO schools, which makes me think that they will approve the school. If the school is approved what can we as students, practicing DOs, and residence can do? is there something we can do if they approve the school?

 

[DO Anes]

I guess we know what those working for RVU are. It's just a matter of negotiating the price.

 

[Taurus]

If Rocky Vista does get approval, people are right that the floodgates will open to more for-profit DO schools. If the demand is there, the schools will keep opening. I predict that the first group to get hit are the IMG's. The DO's will take many of their positions. Once there are more MD/DO's than residency positions, then we'll be in the unprecedented position where there are qualified people who graduate from medical school but can't get residency. Most of these people will be overflow of people from DO schools. Once these stories are well-known, then the demand for new for-profit schools will lessen because who wants to go to school for 4 years and rack up all that debt for nothing?

Let's not forget the nurses. They're pushing the DNP's as being equivalent to MD/DO and they want to get a piece of the GME money for themselves.

 

[dermpathdoc]

Look, will someone please note that Rocky Vista is not the only "FOR Profit" osteopathic medical school??? in my opinion the Touro system is another for profit school....after all they pay thier instructors almost miniscule wages and pocket all the money from the students.....I see very little upgrading of facilities in Touro once they have establisehd a new campus...and the professors certainly don't see any salary increases...
For a new hire to be told he/she will only get 100K and they will have supplement thier salary in anyway they can..that does not inspire quality candidates to stay

 

[medstud2ndyr]

Look, will someone please note that Rocky Vista is not the only "FOR Profit" osteopathic medical school??? in my opinion the Touro system is another for profit school....after all they pay thier instructors almost miniscule wages and pocket all the money from the students.....I see very little upgrading of facilities in Touro once they have establisehd a new campus...and the professors certainly don't see any salary increases...
For a new hire to be told he/she will only get 100K and they will have supplement thier salary in anyway they can..that does not inspire quality candidates to stay

I have to disagree. Our professors get paid very well (and they deserve it). Touro has also established many new clinical rotation sites. They have bought out alot of the buildings next to them. They have expanded the anatomy lab, built a new Micro lab, building a new research lab, etc, etc.. It is a good school & our board scores ROCKED THIS YEAR! Plus, it is one of the few DO schools that has an entire metroplex pretty much too itself, allowing it's students un-paralleled experiences.

 

[heech]

Look, will someone please note that Rocky Vista is not the only "FOR Profit" osteopathic medical school??? in my opinion the Touro system is another for profit school....after all they pay thier instructors almost miniscule wages and pocket all the money from the students.....I see very little upgrading of facilities in Touro once they have establisehd a new campus...and the professors certainly don't see any salary increases...
For a new hire to be told he/she will only get 100K and they will have supplement thier salary in anyway they can..that does not inspire quality candidates to stay

dermpathdoc, you've given enough hints in your past posts for you to be identified (head of DO professional society, professor at east coast DO school). So I'm assuming you speak from a position of personal knowledge when it comes to salary offered to potential faculty.

But when it comes to facilities, I think you're off. TUCOM-MI has continously upgraded its campus over the past 5+ years. There's also discussion of this project, which you might not be aware of:

http://solanosgotit.blogspot.com/2007/07/touros-radical-cancer-center.html

The most relevant distinction though between "non-profit" and "for-profit" schools is not a question of whether a school is "cheap" towards students or faculty...

... there's a meaningful legal distinction here between any existing DO school and Rocky Vista. Investors in a for-profit school expect to be compensated, and therefore have the legal option of pulling out profits at the end of the year in the form of dividends. Those who put up the capital in a non-profit school do not have this option; all retained earnings are (eventually) put back into the system.

 

[toothless rufus]

No one is willing to speak out at the AOA. Either their pockets are lined and they don't to miss their "piece of the action", or they are afraid of the Stalinist culture that COCA has imposed on the schools. Many of my colleagues have been warned by their deans not to speak out for fear of retalition by COCA.

Warned by the deans? Man, that is lame. Shouldn't the deans be opposed to this? This whole scare tactics thing is stupid. Ohhhh, scary COCA made me poop my manties!! What could these people possibly do, and why would they want to do it?! Why can't people just be cool, reasonable, and nice? I just can't understand what these people are thinking.

I'm sick of hearing about people being afraid/reluctant to speak their mind fearing repercussions that shouldn't even exist! It's unacceptable.

If my degree, profession, and future livelihood are tarnished or ruined by any of this, I shall be much annoyed.

 

[DO Anes]

The osteopathic world in general is a culture of fear, intimidation, old-boy network and go along to get along. It is one hand washing the other in something akin to a racketeering organization. A couple of deans who are friends have privately expressed to me their opposition to RVU and the "star chamber" that COCA has become. No one will speak publicly. Just count how many posters on the AOA president's blog are anonymous. It speaks for itself.
George Mychaskiw II, DO, FAAP

 

[toothless rufus]

The osteopathic world in general is a culture of fear, intimidation, old-boy network and go along to get along. It is one hand washing the other in something akin to a racketeering organization

Um, aren't these people supposed to be doctors, not secret agents? Their focus is bizarrely inward.

A couple of deans who are friends have privately expressed to me their opposition to RVU and the "star chamber" that COCA has become. No one will speak publicly. Just count how many posters on the AOA president's blog are anonymous. It speaks for itself.
George Mychaskiw II, DO, FAAP

This is all just too weird.

 

[allendo]

Do you think the residency programs will blacklist all the RVU grads? If they cant' match into good residencies who would want to go there.

 

[MaximusD]

I have to disagree. Our professors get paid very well (and they deserve it). Touro has also established many new clinical rotation sites. They have bought out alot of the buildings next to them. They have expanded the anatomy lab, built a new Micro lab, building a new research lab, etc, etc.. It is a good school & our board scores ROCKED THIS YEAR! Plus, it is one of the few DO schools that has an entire metroplex pretty much too itself, allowing it's students un-paralleled experiences.

I have no doubt that Touro has excellent clinical affiliations, but "unparalleled" would mean that no other COM matches up. I can think of quite a few that do.. NYCOM, PCOM, CCOM... to name a few.

 

[MaximusD]

Do you think the residency programs will blacklist all the RVU grads? If they cant' match into good residencies who would want to go there.

Not likely to be completely blacklisted. A good candidate will impress PDs no matter their point of origin. So my answer would be they might frown upon the school to a certain extent, but I don't think that they will be completely blacklisted...

Who would wnat to go there?

Premeds. Bright-eyed and bushy-tailed premeds.

 

[Northerner]

Do you think the residency programs will blacklist all the RVU grads? If they cant' match into good residencies who would want to go there.

It's not really about "blacklisting" students, it's about the entire nation (well, those who give two ****s) watching this whole thing unfold, mistrusting it the whole way. Everyone's going to be waiting for the other shoe to fall every time something happens at that school (good or bad) and trace it back to the fact that it's "for-profit".

School's not providing a note-taking service like other schools? The knee-jerk reaction will be "ah, the school's cutting corners on the students education to save a buck". School changes its dean? The question on everyone's mind will be what the motivation really was. School gets good board scores? Everyone will wonder if it's just a glorified 2-year board prep course. And so on....just a mess.

 

[lastchanceDO]

I emailed Denver osteopathic foundation few weeks ago and received a reply... I do not agree with "her" reasoning, but I was wondering if anyone else has any other correspondence with them? What do you think of her email?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. sean

I was forwarded your recent email to the Denver Osteopathic Foundation. I am the current president of this foundation and appreciate your views. There was several years of conversation and concern raised about the need and motive behind this new school. While not all agree, it has become reality and in general we are supportive, if only to be certain the students have the greatest benefit we can give.

Your concern about having a "for profit" institution misrepresent osteopathic philosophy is understandable when considering the basis of it's birth years ago. From an idealistic viewpoint, it is also a worthy discussion in today's world. However, reputation is determined by the people making the judgement and the population today does not base any judgement on MD vs DO, only of having a good doctor or not.

Would I interpret your letter to mean, in more raw terms, the balance of a school taking profit from students usually not rich, teaching a philosophy of caring and treatment that does not consider reimbursement and keeping to the primary care base as at odds with each other? The high tuition not representing what is being taught about our unique contribution to medicine in the community? I agree. As for the type of physician trainer it will draw, I disagree. As for the type of student it will draw, we shall see and we shall use caution in our selection.

The community at large does not know the difference often between the way they are treated MD vs DO, like it or not. Those of us who stand out to some of our patients do learn of the difference because they can see how it has been a benefit to them. And anyone walking through my office door would think me a fool to not run a business well enough to profit reasonably from my treatment.

Also, I have found the fear of discrimination MUCH larger than the reality. When your patients know that you care and are providing well for them, they won't care if you are male, female, "foreign", handicapped, purple or toothless. Much less MD vs DO. The fact you will care for them and take time with them AND you are a DO will make you and the profession stand out.

The amount of profit taken by schools these days is not generally known to community physicians. It appears to us unbelievably expensive to attend school and will force specialty choices that can support the cost of the education. This has already had a very negative effect on primary care specialties. I do strongly believe this is not just in the realm of osteopaths, but all students. And the reputation of physicians is of individuals physicians, not of the profession as a whole. People in the community don't see the difference, MD vs DO. Just one very good or very bad doctor. Few ever go beyond this in their judgement.

Many of us share your hope the AOA doesn't allow dollar signs in their eyes cloud their leadership. Their future is composed of forward thinking students and young physicians like you who have much to offer to keep a good balance in the business and practice of medicine.

I encourage your thought process, hope you can see the need and benefit of some profit in the equation and taking your concerns directly to the AOA is not unreasonable.

I hope this has addressed your concerns. I write this not to encourage or discourage your consideration of the new school here. Just to add another view to consider in your education.

Jill ...,DO
COMP 1988

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[Taurus]

If Rocky River does come to pass, I bet every Carib MD school will open DO branches or entirely relocate here as for-profit DO schools. Every time a hurricane passes in to the Gulf, those Carib schools always seem to take a hit. So it would be wise of them to relocate here.

 

[natsayshi]

Rocky Vista has received provisional accreditation as of 10:37 am today.

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

Rocky Vista has received provisional accreditation as of 10:37 am today.

With that said, I would like us to bury this issue and give RVU a chance to set up a proper program.

 

[Shinken]

If Rocky River does come to pass, I bet every Carib MD school will open DO branches or entirely relocate here as for-profit DO schools. Every time a hurricane passes in to the Gulf, those Carib schools always seem to take a hit. So it would be wise of them to relocate here.

 

[toothless rufus]

Rocky Vista has received provisional accreditation as of 10:37 am today.

Real smart scientists have just discovered that this accreditation has triggered an early Big Crunch event! Goodbye everyone!! The DOs have destroyed the universe!!

 

[DO Anes]

Very eloquent reply. I suppose others in history have also justified their thirty pieces of silver. COCA has behaved in an irresponsible and unethical manner in their rush to accredit this business enterprise. For the first time in 20 years of practice, I am ashamed to be a DO.
P.S. This is not over.
George Mychaskiw II, DO, FAAP

 

[toothless rufus]

Very eloquent reply. I suppose others in history have also justified their thirty pieces of silver. COCA has behaved in an irresponsible and unethical manner in their rush to accredit this business enterprise. For the first time in 20 years of practice, I am ashamed to be a DO.
P.S. This is not over.
George Mychaskiw II, DO, FAAP

Surely those responsible must be aware of the potential catastrophe they have created? So...why? Money? Maybe "they" want the DO to go away, and have only one system of education? A little paranoid sounding for sure, but I just don't get it. Of course the money thing is enough, I guess.

Also, I am not sure how worried I should actually be about this...but it does worry me. And even if nothing really terrible happens (which would be great, but seems improbable) it seems morally reprehensible.

 

[Hernandez]

Very eloquent reply.

Yet it doesn't really seem to answer anything. "I agree that there is potential for harm, but really DO bias is no where near as bad as it is perceived, so RVU isn't going to hurt us. Granted, none of the students who graduate from here will be able to afford to be a primary care physician, but we'll have plenty come from the other lower tier non-profit schools"

 

[Old_Mil]

I was forwarded your recent email to the Denver Osteopathic Foundation. I am the current president of this foundation and appreciate your views.

When someone tells you that they "appreciate your views", you can be sure that they do anything but.

 

[dermpathdoc]

I have to disagree. Our professors get paid very well (and they deserve it). Touro has also established many new clinical rotation sites. They have bought out alot of the buildings next to them. They have expanded the anatomy lab, built a new Micro lab, building a new research lab, etc, etc.. It is a good school & our board scores ROCKED THIS YEAR! Plus, it is one of the few DO schools that has an entire metroplex pretty much too itself, allowing it's students un-paralleled experiences.

Dear Med student...

Do you think I don't know what I am talking about?? I have interviewed there and was told exactly what I posted. Those professors that are "paid very well" have to supplement thier teaching salary. That is not to say that academic salaries are not supplemented at other schools. They are, but most schools pay much better AND provide more support for the professor in helping them set up research and clinical opportunities. There are other schools that are the same and I am currently teaching at one and had hoped to move to a better situation.
I really liked the people at TOURO especially Dr Foy.....I wanted to work there and felt I had alot to give the school. I am glad the students did well on thier Boards....but you know....that is more a function of the students and thier ability to study and understand the material taught. I am not denigrating the school itself...

 

[Coastie]

Where was the promised Ronnie Martin, DO, Dean of RVUCOM, response to your letter in the August 2007 issue of JAOA?

Very eloquent reply. I suppose others in history have also justified their thirty pieces of silver. COCA has behaved in an irresponsible and unethical manner in their rush to accredit this business enterprise. For the first time in 20 years of practice, I am ashamed to be a DO.
P.S. This is not over.
George Mychaskiw II, DO, FAAP

 

[DO Anes]

I have seen Dr. Martin's replies/comments on the RVU website and AOA president's blog. Dr. Martin is a good man and I respect his opinions and arguments, however much we disagree. I would urge interested parties to look at those and come to their own conclusions.
George Mychaskiw II, DO, FAAP, FACOP

 

[BusterDO]

I have seen Dr. Martin's replies/comments on the RVU website and AOA president's blog. Dr. Martin is a good man and I respect his opinions and arguments, however much we disagree. I would urge interested parties to look at those and come to their own conclusions.
George Mychaskiw II, DO, FAAP, FACOP

I still think it sucks!

 

[DOSouthpaw]

I personally don't have a problem with a for profit school. I believe in the Market. The trick is to keep the academic standards high. That would allow competition to make the schools strive harder. To me, non profits lead to resting on one's butt and not innovating.

 

[MDDOBS]

What's the next harmful development in the osteopathic profession? Online osteopathic medical degrees?

I'm ashamed and very concernered about the future of osteopathic medical education. Are our schools simply becoming cash-cow D.O. factories? LECOM has grown ridiculously large in its very short history (where do they get they balls to open up a branch campus and two schools of pharmacy when they've been around less than 15 years?)... as if their quality of education was so high at their original campus! Touro, PCOM, CCOM, AT Still, etc. also all with their mad rushes to open up branches all over the place, rather than investing in developing substantial research programs, facilities, and partnerships. Now, this for profit Rocky Vista (the name itself is cheesy enough) mess...

Rough waters ahead, my friends.

 

[drusso]

Recent press release from RVUCOM.

Student leaders should push to introduce an AOA resolution at the House of Delegates against the establishment of future for-profit status COM's. This can be coordinated through SOMA or COSGP.

http://www.studentdo.com/
http://www.cosgp.aacom.org/

Also, if you are active in your schoo's chapter or AMSA or AMA-MSS, then you should also work to introduce similar resolutions at their annual meetings. The AMA-MSS would be particularly effective in this cause.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/14.html

Similarly, students in UAAO, NUFA, etc should make it their number 1 policy issue to change COCA accreditation standards so no future for-profit DO schools go forward.


PARKER, Colo., Sept. 7 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine, LLC (RVUCOM), the newest of the 28 colleges of osteopathic medicine in the United States and the first college of osteopathic medicine in Colorado, has been granted provisional accreditation from the American Osteopathic Association's Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation (AOA-COCA). The provisional accreditation will allow the college to offer its educational curriculum, leading to a doctor of osteopathic medicine degree.


With the granting of provisional accreditation, RVUCOM began the process of recruiting and interviewing for its first class of 150 future osteopathic physicians who are scheduled to matriculate in August of 2008.


The inaugural class will join one of every five medical students enrolled in U.S. medical colleges today. Upon graduation, these students will join the fastest growing segment of health care in the United States -- osteopathic medicine.


Mission


The mission statement of RVUCOM commits the college to the education of osteopathic physicians who are dedicated to excellence in the practice of medicine, demonstrate integrity and professionalism in their lives, while providing ethical, compassionate, holistic and culturally competent osteopathic medical care to their patients.


RVUCOM strives to prepare physicians who are dedicated to improving access to competent and timely health care for all; with an emphasis on developing primary care physicians to improve medical access for at risk and rural populations, provide public service, and advance public health.


The college is committed to honoring osteopathic philosophy and heritage, advancing both the science and art of the practice of osteopathic medicine, while providing a state of the art, scientifically-based education for its students with an emphasis on prevention of disease, wellness, and patient-centered care.


The college was established largely to provide expanded medical education opportunities for the residents of the state of Colorado and the Mountain West Region and is honored to be given the opportunity to work along side its community and professional partners to advance their missions of providing and improving access to quality health care for the residents of the community, state, region and country.


Board of Trustees


Rocky Vista University operates as an independent, privately-funded organization with a board of trustees who direct and provide oversight for the mission and vision, operations, administration and educational offerings of the component colleges.


The members of the board include:


Chairman:

Ian R. Levenson, D.O., FACOFP of Greenwood Village, Colo.


Members:

D. Robert Black, Esq. of Coral Gables, Fla.

Mary M. Burnett, D.O., FACOFP-dist of Littleton, Colo.

Joel Cooperman, D.O. of Aurora, Colo.

Bruce L. Kaplan, D.O. of West Bloomfield, Mich.

Thomas A. Moore, Jr, D.O., of Grand Junction, Colo.

Kent Stevinson of Greenwood Village, Colo.

The founder and chancellor for the university is Yife Tien of Coral Gables, Fla.


With more than 20 years of senior management experience in medical education, Tien has extensive expertise in strategic planning and organizational leadership, operations and administration, business development in competitive markets, regulatory affairs, and revenue growth.


Future Development


The university is currently developing a new campus in the city of Parker in Douglas County, Colo. that will include state of the art educational facilities with a total of 145, 000 sq. ft. of facilities for the college of osteopathic medicine.


Phase two development plans include additional facilities and resources to support new colleges of allied health and nursing and are anticipated to add an additional 50,000 sq. ft. to the campus. Long-range considerations for the university include new colleges of pharmacy and dentistry and as much as an additional 150,000 sq. ft. of facilities and resources during phase three.


Rocky Vista University and Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine will provide direct economic impact in excess of $75 million annually by the year 2012 and more than $200 annually by 2020.

 

[dermpathdoc]

yesss, I am sure that those who are located at my school or have had contact with me know who I am...
But when looking at facilities should those who rail against for profit schools be so vehement?? after all those schools are just like any school which has just opened.
I can say that a recently opened school in the south offered me.."whatever you want...name your salary.....and we will double it!" if I would just go there to teach...I certainly think twice about such offers...but I am not denigartign a school which may perhaps graduate quality physicians. As at least one poster has said..the end result is that the students do well on thier Board exams and also obtain the residency slots they aspire to. I believe all the students who come to this board care about where they eventually specialize in....

dermpathdoc, you've given enough hints in your past posts for you to be identified (head of DO professional society, professor at east coast DO school). So I'm assuming you speak from a position of personal knowledge when it comes to salary offered to potential faculty.

But when it comes to facilities, I think you're off. TUCOM-MI has continously upgraded its campus over the past 5+ years. There's also discussion of this project, which you might not be aware of:

http://solanosgotit.blogspot.com/2007/07/touros-radical-cancer-center.html

The most relevant distinction though between "non-profit" and "for-profit" schools is not a question of whether a school is "cheap" towards students or faculty...

... there's a meaningful legal distinction here between any existing DO school and Rocky Vista. Investors in a for-profit school expect to be compensated, and therefore have the legal option of pulling out profits at the end of the year in the form of dividends. Those who put up the capital in a non-profit school do not have this option; all retained earnings are (eventually) put back into the system.

 

[drusso]

Executive Committee Creates Standards Review Coalition


AOA President Peter B. Ajluni, DO, led a conference call of the Executive Committee of the AOA Board of Trustees last evening in preparation for the full Board Meeting taking place later this month at the AOA Convention in San Diego. The Executive Committee moved to create a new Standards Review Coalition to review and jointly recommend changes to the college of osteopathic medicine accreditation standards. Members also recommended that AOA Controller Frank Bedford, CPA, and I develop a long-range plan for handling AOA financial management in the event of an economic or fiscal recession in the US economy next year.


***Hopefully, this review committee will move to make some meaningful changes to the accreditation standards to prevent another RVU debacle.***

 

[misery]

Surely those responsible must be aware of the potential catastrophe they have created? So...why? Money? Maybe "they" want the DO to go away, and have only one system of education? .........

And this would be a bad thing, Why? I'd fully support a merger/change of the degree's, I've felt that appropriate for some time. But, I'm so ashamed of my future degree now, I want to throw up.

 

[drusso]

And this would be a bad thing, Why? I'd fully support a merger/change of the degree's, I've felt that appropriate for some time. But, I'm so ashamed of my future degree now, I want to throw up.

Please tell me how you will convince approximately 50,000 DO's that they should go along with your plan? By 2020, there will be over 95K DO's. Surveys show that greater than 70% of DO's favor keeping their degree designation. How will you convince them? What's your plan of action?

 

[misery]

Please tell me how you will convince approximately 50,000 DO's that they should go along with your plan? By 2020, there will be over 95K DO's. Surveys show that greater than 70% of DO's favor keeping their degree designation. How will you convince them? What's your plan of action?

I don't plan to persuade the thousands of DO's to change their degrees. While I would support it, I don't really believe that that's the answer to the questions posted in this forum. However, you would be hard pressed to argue that a single accrediting body would do any harm. It's time for a Flexner Report, and this RVU school may be the act that pushes for it. We need a merger of the LCME and COCA. This is was my point.

As for changing the degree's. I think that if we don't:
1) get control of our growth
2) increase the amount of quality GME, and I emphasize quality (I'm a student at an osteopathic hospital, I wouldn't go to our hospital.)
3)decrease our class sizes
.....we won't have to make the change, the government is going to intercede and do it on there terms. You want to keep the degree? Make it something worth keeping, cause right now it's going down the toilet.

 

[MaximusD]

I personally don't have a problem with a for profit school. I believe in the Market. The trick is to keep the academic standards high. That would allow competition to make the schools strive harder. To me, non profits lead to resting on one's butt and not innovating.

so you think that the current system is flawed?

There are 150+ med schools that are non-profit! You think that these institutions as a whole are not innovative?

you don't think that recruiting quality candidates is motivation?

how about maintaining accreditation?

how about obtaining grants for research?

how about having an active alumni base...?

Institutional profit, while quite useful, has no place in medical education. The priorities have to maintain clear... the students and our patients. There is no room for worrying about a bottom line...

 

[MaximusD]

And this would be a bad thing, Why? I'd fully support a merger/change of the degree's, I've felt that appropriate for some time. But, I'm so ashamed of my future degree now, I want to throw up.

Easy solution: transfer to an MD program

 

[drusso]

.....we won't have to make the change, the government is going to intercede and do it on there terms. You want to keep the degree? Make it something worth keeping, cause right now it's going down the toilet.

I'm just trying to think through this: The government is going to mandate that a school changes the kind of degree it awards??? That would be like changing all the BA degrees in anthropology to BS degrees or vice-versa. It doesn't make sense...I don't know how you're going to make any changes without involving all the stakeholders in the current system...ie the people who pay their bills and feed their families based upon the status quo.

 

[Northerner]

I'm just trying to think through this: The government is going to mandate that a school changes the kind of degree it awards??? That would be like changing all the BA degrees in anthropology to BS degrees or vice-versa. It doesn't make sense...I don't know how you're going to make any changes without involving all the stakeholders in the current system...ie the people who pay their bills and feed their families based upon the status quo.

I think the idea was that all schools would be under the auspices, direction, and standards of the AMA, AAMC, and LCME.

 

[misery]

I think the idea was that all schools would be under the auspices, direction, and standards of the AMA, AAMC, and LCME.

exactly

 

[drusso]

I think the idea was that all schools would be under the auspices, direction, and standards of the AMA, AAMC, and LCME.

Except that the government already identifies another accrediting body for osteopathic schools. How would you convince the US Dept of Education and Congress that they need to change their who they identify as having "deeming authority" to accredit DO schools?

http://www.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/accreditation_pg10.html

 

[Northerner]

Except that the government already identifies another accrediting body for osteopathic schools. How would you convince the US Dept of Education and Congress that they need to change their who they identify as having "deeming authority" to accredit DO schools?

http://www.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/accreditation_pg10.html

Again, I'm speaking for the person who originally suggested this, but I'm guessing that's the point. They think things like this are a strong indication that there needs to be a....."different", body than the one who allows this sort of thing to happen. Not to mention, it's a little strange that there are different standards for accrediting DO & MD schools - it's an inconsistency that is not easy to reconcile.