Rocky Vista "Turmoil"?

[Instatewaiter]

Student considering RVU over another school in the US should not choose RVU.

You will have a much better education and much better chances for residency coming from another school.

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[Bones DO]

I am very serious about the RVU students not being as well regarded as their osteo counterparts when they go for residency. Do not underestimate the stigma of for-profit education or of a new school with crappy clinicals. When RVU matches students to places like MGH, BIDMC, B&W, Hopkins, Columbia, Yale, Duke etc we can talk. More likely, it's match list will be full of undesirable community programs in crappy areas. When that happens I expect you to come back here with your tail between your legs.

I'm just happy you're not a PD. Most of them know how to weigh the factors that matter when considering candidates.

In terms of quality of education, rince RVU is modeled after Tien's other school why don;t you look there for that high quality you refer to (ha). That will show you that for profit education does not provide a high quality of education.

American University of the Caribbean: GPA: 3.1, MCAT 22.6 after over 30 years

(http://www.princetonreview.com/schools/medical/MedBasics.aspx?iid=1037713)

Rocky Vista University: GPA: 3.46, MCAT 25.8 after 2 years.

NOT COMPARABLE.

 

[Bones DO]

Student considering RVU over another school in the US should not choose RVU.

You will have a much better education and much better chances for residency coming from another school.

Says the Oracle at Delphi. . . I guess it's a good thing you can see the future?

You've done enough on this thread alone to demean your own credibility with your multiple instances of pulling false numbers out of thin air to support your weak-founded arguments. I guess we should be impressed that at least in the above statement you didn't make another sad attempt to invent more false figures?

:troll:

 

[boone95]

I am very serious about the RVU students not being as well regarded as their osteo counterparts when they go for residency. Do not underestimate the stigma of for-profit education or of a new school with crappy clinicals. When RVU matches students to places like MGH, BIDMC, B&W, Hopkins, Columbia, Yale, Duke etc we can talk. More likely, it's match list will be full of undesirable community programs in crappy areas. When that happens I expect you to come back here with your tail between your legs.

In terms of quality of education, rince RVU is modeled after Tien's other school why don;t you look there for that high quality you refer to (ha). That will show you that for profit education does not provide a high quality of education.

1. Well, you're right, there may be 4 or 5 people who have such a grudge that they'll take it out on the students of RVU, but I expect the rest of the country will look at the applicant and judge them based on what they know and how they perform, regardless of any loose generalizations. I'll talk to you after match day and one of us will post a picture holding a sign saying "you're right."

2. Do you realize you're trying to compare a Caribbean school with a US school?

Have you been to RVU? Do you know anything about the curriculum or faculty? I get that you don't like the for-profit model, that's fine. But the rest of your outrageous claims make you sound ridiculous; I'm assuming that since you're almost graduated that you're a clear thinker, so don't give yourself a bad name.

 

[bioman2006]

.

 

[Bones DO]

InStateWaiter attends VCU, not VCOM. If you're gonna bash someone, at least make sure you're correct so you don't come off like a *****.

And a "competitive" 24 at VCOM is likely an 8 on each MCAT section. VCOM cares a lot more about your science GPA than your MCAT score anyway. If you have a 24, your GPA better be higher than the class average.

Just figured he'd go to the VA Osteo school since he's here posting about osteo-related stuff. Thats what happens when you assume...I withdraw that part of the comment. I do find it interesting how I am condemned for one really minor mistake that has nothing to do the argument at hand and yet no one else seems to care about his fabricated numbers...

 

[bioman2006]

.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Fabricated numbers?

 

[rddoms]

I completely agree with Bioman2006. I don't like the fact that the school is for-profit either.The whole for-profit thing sucks because it is the first school of it's kind since the Flexner Report. And while the Flexner Report is as old as dirt, many people still believe that for-profit schools will somehow hurt medicine.

The other thing that DO's/OMS's don't like is the fact that the AOA allowed a for-profit DO school to start even though the LCME doesn't allow this.

The fact of the matter is that students going to RVU should be given support. They are doing the same thing as the rest of us, trying to become doctors. We should be ripping on the AOA and RVU for bringing for-profit schools back from the dead, not the students. It is similar to supporting the troops even though you disagree with the war.

I really hope that the students at RVU do well, get the training they deserve, and match into the specialty of their choice. They are putting in just as much work and money into medical school as we are, and thus deserve support.

And speaking of DeVry, Isn't RossU owned by them?

 

[Siggy]

"I'm going to college in my pajamas, online!"

As someone who's currently watching the 10 am lecture (it's 12:30 local time) at home in my PJs, I have to ask, what's wrong with this practice?

 

[JaggerPlate]

I completely agree with Bioman2006. I don't like the fact that the school is for-profit either.The whole for-profit thing sucks because it is the first school of it's kind since the Flexner Report. And while the Flexner Report is as old as dirt, many people still believe that for-profit schools will somehow hurt medicine.

The other thing that DO's/OMS's don't like is the fact that the AOA allowed a for-profit DO school to start even though the LCME doesn't allow this.

The fact of the matter is that students going to RVU should be given support. They are doing the same thing as the rest of us, trying to become doctors. We should be ripping on the AOA and RVU for bringing for-profit schools back from the dead, not the students. It is similar to supporting the troops even though you disagree with the war.

I really hope that the students at RVU do well, get the training they deserve, and match into the specialty of their choice. They are putting in just as much work and money into medical school as we are, and thus deserve support.

And speaking of DeVry, Isn't RossU owned by them?

Couldn't have said it better ... this is a thread ender.

 

[Bones DO]

I chose not to because this topic is really becoming a dead horse, and recently I've decided to hold off on judging RVU until we see where its grads end up. I'm not a fan of for-profit status, but I'm willing to see if it turns out better in medical education than it has in every other sector of education. All RVU students have to do is something that ITT, DeVry, and "I'm going to college in my pajamas, online!" students have yet to do: prove that their education is just as good as, if not better than, those who come from non-profit U.S. institutions. If it fails, then so be it.

RVU offers a medical education in a very desirable location, and for that I believe they'll always have a solid applicant pool.

Yay!



Now we can stop.

 

[WNT Signaling]

On what planet do you think corners are not cut at not-for-profit D.O. schools? You also make it sound like RVU is a publicly traded corporation, which it is not, and has no plans to become so. As a (good) business they are very concerned about the product they turn out, IE: quality of education / competency of graduates. I can understand the concern regarding a new approach, but why not see where it goes first? Why not see how they do before condemning them?.[/COLOR]

Many allopathic schools do run a profit, and this money goes to fund new facilities, scholarships, and research. Extra money should go to improve the school and not directly into investors' pockets. As others have mentioned, medical education is an inelastic good, so there is no need for RVU to have excellent libraries or labs, so long as a handful of their students get into residencies. Simply put, non-for-profit DO schools do sometimes have to cut-corners, put for-profits schools have no reason not to cut corners

 

[bioman2006]

.

 

[Bones DO]

Many allopathic schools do run a profit, and this money goes to fund new facilities, scholarships, and research. Extra money should go to improve the school and not directly into investors' pockets. As others have mentioned, medical education is an inelastic good, so there is no need for RVU to have excellent libraries or labs, so long as a handful of their students get into residencies. Simply put, non-for-profit DO schools do sometimes have to cut-corners, put for-profits schools have no reason not to cut corners

So much for ending the thread...

RVU knows they are being watched closely. This is a major motivation for them to turn out good board scores, have a good match list and ultimately supply their region with good physicians per their mission. If they do not, they will fail both as a business and an institution. And since you brought it up, RVU's facilities are the most modern I have encountered at any D.O. institution.

Medical education is not as inelastic as you might think. If it were, more out of state people would go to MSU or OU. But they don't.. why? It's unreasonably expensive next to the average cost of a D.O. elsewhere. Also, if it were truly inelastic, RVU would have set its tuition at 65 – 70k. Again, it did not, for the same reason.

Many D.O., if not all medical schools run a profit, and you rarely see the money put to good use. What you do see is the addition of my new levels of administration for the sake of spending the money (lest they lose various levels of government support) that effectively thicken red tape for any improvements to be made to benefit students. Perhaps this new model will promote efficiency and avoid the wasteful practices many of the other institutions are guilty of.

Medical education is (and has been for quite a while) a business, whether it be for profit or not for profit. The for-profit model is just that, a new model; a new approach to an old business.

 

[Bones DO]

As someone who's currently watching the 10 am lecture (it's 12:30 local time) at home in my PJs, I have to ask, what's wrong with this practice?

 

[Instatewaiter]

RVU knows they are being watched closely. This is a major motivation for them to turn out good board scores, have a good match list and ultimately supply their region with good physicians per their mission. If they do not, they will fail both as a business and an institution. And since you brought it up, RVU's facilities are the most modern I have encountered at any D.O. institution.

I agree, RVU will likely do their best while they are being watched in the first few years. The issue is, when that attention is away from them, what will they do? WNT, I, and many others think that instead of continuing to put money back into the school, they will divert it to their own pockets

I have said it a million times before. The facilities of the first 2 years mean next to nothing. Provided you have a desk and a projector, classes could be held in a barn and it wouldn't affect your education. The clinical facilities are the more important ones. Even the clinical facilities mean little in terms of quality of education. Look at Emory for instance. Grady is a ****hole. I mean an old, relatively dilapidated hospital that looks like it belongs in a horror movie. No one would deny that Emory delivers some of the best medical education in the country.

Medical education is not as inelastic as you might think. If it were, more out of state people would go to MSU or OU. But they don't.. why? It's unreasonably expensive next to the average cost of a D.O. elsewhere. Also, if it were truly inelastic, RVU would have set its tuition at 65 – 70k. Again, it did not, for the same reason.

Let's take the most inelastic good in the world. If that same inelastic good is offered at a higher price and a lower price, people will choose the lower price. That doesn't make it any less inelastic.

So, in your example, that people do not choose to pay for a higher priced but comparable education does not prove it is inelastic. It just proves people aren't that stupid.

Now if every medical school were to raise their tuition to MSU or OU's levels you wouldn't see much of a decrease in demand for those spots. And that makes it inelastic.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Many D.O., if not all medical schools run a profit, and you rarely see the money put to good use. What you do see is the addition of my new levels of administration for the sake of spending the money (lest they lose various levels of government support) that effectively thicken red tape for any improvements to be made to benefit students. Perhaps this new model will promote efficiency and avoid the wasteful practices many of the other institutions are guilty of.

Medical education is (and has been for quite a while) a business, whether it be for profit or not for profit. The for-profit model is just that, a new model; a new approach to an old business.

How many scholarships does RVU have?

At my school (which apparently wastes money like it is water) almost every student ends up getting a scholarship by the time they graduate. Each year there are over 110 scholarship awards based on different criteria (grades, service, interest in a certain field).

That "waste" in administration is also what gives us medical students support. Here are a few examples at my school:

We have one person who is specifically there to help us with the match (and if we are unlucky the scramble). If we have questions, need letters uploaded to eras, or need anything else to do with residency we call her and she does it for us

We have a separate lady who does financial aid. Outside of the obvious, she finds scholarships and gives us the info on consolidation, deferment instead of having to figure it out yourself.

We have others who are specifically there for curriculum advancement and change which has lead to a number of innovative changes in the curriculum and made improvements every single year based on student and faculty comments. Instead of you having to push to institute change, they do it for you so you get more out of your education.


So that amorphous waste your are talking about makes your education as a med student cheaper, easier, and more productive than if that money was funneled away from the students

 

[RogueUnicorn]

If this were true, it would be compelling, however, again you are in error.

1. http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/PDFs/RVUFactSheetweb.pdf this shows the first class to have an MCAT average of 25, and the GPA stats I before mentioned.

2. per the director of admissions, the c/o 2013 has 3.46 cum, 3.37 sci and 25.8 MCAT. She anticipates (and already is seeing) a similar margin of improvement for this year, so the c/o 2014 will have an MCAT over 26 and very close to, if not over 3.5 cum GPA. This is after only 3 years of operation.

3. SGU has been operating for over 30 years, RVU 2 and 1/2. I cannot find the statistics anywhere for SGU's first class since it was so long ago. I feel like this would be the best way to compare them: if you compared SGU's and RVU's first classes against each other, I tend to think RVU's would be decently ahead. I also tend to think that SGU's stats have more or less stabilized, as those numbers have been on their site for the last few years, whereas RVU has a clear upward trend, as is expected of a US D.O. school.

this is a completely biased way of comparison, considering the average applicant 30 years ago had considerably lower numbers than now. the only fair comparison is between accepted applicants of the same cycle. the way you're averaging 30 years of admissions data to compare to the most recent data of RVU seems to me like a massaging of facts to make your point. i'm not saying that one school is better than the other, but i just don't feel your evidence is sound.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

...RVU knows they are being watched closely. This is a major motivation for them to turn out good board scores...

So they'll be like a Caribbean School and do two years of board prep rather than the more traditional basic science curricula?

 

[csmittyB]

So they'll be like a Caribbean School and do two years of board prep rather than the more traditional basic science curricula?

Aren't the more traditional basic sciences curricula learned in undergrad as pre-requisite courses?

 

[Siggy]

Aren't the more traditional basic sciences curricula learned in undergrad as pre-requisite courses?

I can't think of a single US medical school that doesn't teach anatomy, physiology, biochem, immunology, histology, (the basic medical science courses) etc regardless of how the curriculum is designed (traditional v PBL v systems).

 

[Bones DO]

How many scholarships does RVU have?

At my school (which apparently wastes money like it is water) almost every student ends up getting a scholarship by the time they graduate. Each year there are over 110 scholarship awards based on different criteria (grades, service, interest in a certain field).

That "waste" in administration is also what gives us medical students support. Here are a few examples at my school:

We have one person who is specifically there to help us with the match (and if we are unlucky the scramble). If we have questions, need letters uploaded to eras, or need anything else to do with residency we call her and she does it for us

We have a separate lady who does financial aid. Outside of the obvious, she finds scholarships and gives us the info on consolidation, deferment instead of having to figure it out yourself.

We have others who are specifically there for curriculum advancement and change which has lead to a number of innovative changes in the curriculum and made improvements every single year based on student and faculty comments. Instead of you having to push to institute change, they do it for you so you get more out of your education.


So that amorphous waste your are talking about makes your education as a med student cheaper, easier, and more productive than if that money was funneled away from the students

Your bolded statement in your case is quite true. I think many would agree that many D.O. schools' administrations are not so responsible for whatever reason.

 

[Bones DO]

I agree, RVU will likely do their best while they are being watched in the first few years. The issue is, when that attention is away from them, what will they do? WNT, I, and many others think that instead of continuing to put money back into the school, they will divert it to their own pockets

I have said it a million times before. The facilities of the first 2 years mean next to nothing. Provided you have a desk and a projector, classes could be held in a barn and it wouldn't affect your education. The clinical facilities are the more important ones. Even the clinical facilities mean little in terms of quality of education. Look at Emory for instance. Grady is a ****hole. I mean an old, relatively dilapidated hospital that looks like it belongs in a horror movie. No one would deny that Emory delivers some of the best medical education in the country.




Let's take the most inelastic good in the world. If that same inelastic good is offered at a higher price and a lower price, people will choose the lower price. That doesn't make it any less inelastic.

So, in your example, that people do not choose to pay for a higher priced but comparable education does not prove it is inelastic. It just proves people aren't that stupid.

Now if every medical school were to raise their tuition to MSU or OU's levels you wouldn't see much of a decrease in demand for those spots. And that makes it inelastic.

My point was: if medical education was completely inelastic, all domestic schools would have equal number of applications regardless of price differences associated with residency.

I agree if all med schools were 65k a year, there would likely be little decline in applications, however if you raised it much above that, say 150-200k a year, it just doesn't make sense for anyone to do it anymore. Therefore, medical education only behaves as an inelastic good to a point, and even then, only if all the schools are charging the exact same price.

 

[Bones DO]

Originally Posted by Bones DO
If this were true, it would be compelling, however, again you are in error.

1. http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/...ctSheetweb.pdf this shows the first class to have an MCAT average of 25, and the GPA stats I before mentioned.

2. per the director of admissions, the c/o 2013 has 3.46 cum, 3.37 sci and 25.8 MCAT. She anticipates (and already is seeing) a similar margin of improvement for this year, so the c/o 2014 will have an MCAT over 26 and very close to, if not over 3.5 cum GPA. This is after only 3 years of operation.

3. SGU has been operating for over 30 years, RVU 2 and 1/2. I cannot find the statistics anywhere for SGU's first class since it was so long ago. I feel like this would be the best way to compare them: if you compared SGU's and RVU's first classes against each other, I tend to think RVU's would be decently ahead. I also tend to think that SGU's stats have more or less stabilized, as those numbers have been on their site for the last few years, whereas RVU has a clear upward trend, as is expected of a US D.O. school.

this is a completely biased way of comparison, considering the average applicant 30 years ago had considerably lower numbers than now. the only fair comparison is between accepted applicants of the same cycle. the way you're averaging 30 years of admissions data to compare to the most recent data of RVU seems to me like a massaging of facts to make your point. i'm not saying that one school is better than the other, but i just don't feel your evidence is sound.

The first two bullets do exactly what you suggest. SGU has had the same numbers for the passed several years, I compared them against c/o 2012 and 2013 at RVU individually. How else would you suggest doing it?

The third bullet was a conditional/hypothetical that no one can really do (though if you could, and somehow could also correct for time passed, I still think RVU would be on top). It was a "what if" scenario that was relatively minor to my argument. Though, the point of illustrating it thusly was to show that SGU's numbers have stabilized where they are, and RVU's are improving.

 

[Bones DO]

So they'll be like a Caribbean School and do two years of board prep rather than the more traditional basic science curricula?

No.

 

[csmittyB]

I can't think of a single US medical school that doesn't teach anatomy, physiology, biochem, immunology, histology, (the basic medical science courses) etc regardless of how the curriculum is designed (traditional v PBL v systems).

I'm not arguing that these aren't taught. My reply had to do with the poster claiming non-caribbean medical schools cover more traditional basic science curriculum. I view the traditional basic sciences as biology, chemistry, physics (probably should have included that in my previous post), classes that you should have been covered before medical school.

 

[Siggy]

The problem is that the term "basic science" has a different connotation in medical school, just like the term "undergraduate education" has a different meaning in medical school. For example, the "Basic Medical Sciences" department at WU/COMP doesn't teach physics or chemistry.

 

[stonewall22]

An interesting tidbit to think about...I'm a non-trad and not sure where or if I'll be going to medical school yet. Currently I'm a genomics scientist at ARUP Laboratories in Salt Lake City, which, until a month ago, was a for-profit company. Guess who the ONLY share holder in the company is? Ding, ding, ding...the University of Utah School of Medicine...WHAT? More than that, half of the faculty members from the Pathology Department have their labs at ARUP and are instructed to design medical tests (many pathologists do this) and more or less prohibited from basic science research because it doesn't make money. They are instructed to design tests that will make ARUP the most money. ARUP was a $500 million company last year. It's a great place to work, they pay high, much higher than you find in other research positions. I don't think anyone would argue that the University of Utah doesn't have a great medical school. However, this makes me wonder how many medical schools are skirting the for profit issue by doing things similar to the U of U (open a for profit company to make money). A great deal of teaching happens at ARUP. ALL the Pathology residents and most of their fellows have a majority of their training at ARUP, which was for profit until a month ago. When the change in profit status was changed we were told that NOTHING would change except that now we could purchase academic priced items.

So, RVU is for profit, but they might still provide a great education. Nurses are taught in for profit schools and they are an important part of medical care. And isn't RVU doing some great things to make sure their students are succeeding? Didn't I read on here somewhere that they're loaning their own students money? Seems like they're invested in their students. All places cut corners to save money, especially universities. The last university I worked at stopped hiring new faculty and stopped building because they ran out of funds. This increased the teaching load of faculty and class size. I'm sure many institutions have been forced to do this recently, but they are probably still providing a quality education like I'm guessing RVU will. As long as RVU graduates competent physicians I just don't see the problem unless people are standing against RVU simply on principle and not because there's any evidence that RVU will actually produce incompetent physicians. I read a lot of hypotheticals on here about RVU cutting corners and hurting their students and the profession, but where's the evidence? The argument has been made that RVU will become the University of Phoenix of medical schools, but based on what? University of Phoenix has virtually no entrance requirements and what's the quality of their faculty (I don't actually know)...not to mention they're SO overpriced. However, I did a quick search and RVU has a class size that's comparable to other DO schools, tuition that's comparable, and even detractors have mentioned here that the faculty are well qualified to be teaching.

Anyway, like I said I don't know where or if I'll go. I hope to be at my state school if I go (the U), because it will be much cheaper and I wouldn't have to move my family, but I don't think RVU would be a bad choice either.

 

[PETRADOCS]

stonewall22, excellent points about the company and nursing school. i guess i am waiting to see how the do on the part one boards and if clinicals are ok

 

[Bones DO]

An interesting tidbit to think about...I'm a non-trad and not sure where or if I'll be going to medical school yet. Currently I'm a genomics scientist at ARUP Laboratories in Salt Lake City, which, until a month ago, was a for-profit company. Guess who the ONLY share holder in the company is? Ding, ding, ding...the University of Utah School of Medicine...WHAT? More than that, half of the faculty members from the Pathology Department have their labs at ARUP and are instructed to design medical tests (many pathologists do this) and more or less prohibited from basic science research because it doesn't make money. They are instructed to design tests that will make ARUP the most money. ARUP was a $500 million company last year. It's a great place to work, they pay high, much higher than you find in other research positions. I don't think anyone would argue that the University of Utah doesn't have a great medical school. However, this makes me wonder how many medical schools are skirting the for profit issue by doing things similar to the U of U (open a for profit company to make money). A great deal of teaching happens at ARUP. ALL the Pathology residents and most of their fellows have a majority of their training at ARUP, which was for profit until a month ago. When the change in profit status was changed we were told that NOTHING would change except that now we could purchase academic priced items.

So, RVU is for profit, but they might still provide a great education. Nurses are taught in for profit schools and they are an important part of medical care. And isn't RVU doing some great things to make sure their students are succeeding? Didn't I read on here somewhere that they're loaning their own students money? Seems like they're invested in their students. All places cut corners to save money, especially universities. The last university I worked at stopped hiring new faculty and stopped building because they ran out of funds. This increased the teaching load of faculty and class size. I'm sure many institutions have been forced to do this recently, but they are probably still providing a quality education like I'm guessing RVU will. As long as RVU graduates competent physicians I just don't see the problem unless people are standing against RVU simply on principle and not because there's any evidence that RVU will actually produce incompetent physicians. I read a lot of hypotheticals on here about RVU cutting corners and hurting their students and the profession, but where's the evidence? The argument has been made that RVU will become the University of Phoenix of medical schools, but based on what? University of Phoenix has virtually no entrance requirements and what's the quality of their faculty (I don't actually know)...not to mention they're SO overpriced. However, I did a quick search and RVU has a class size that's comparable to other DO schools, tuition that's comparable, and even detractors have mentioned here that the faculty are well qualified to be teaching.

Anyway, like I said I don't know where or if I'll go. I hope to be at my state school if I go (the U), because it will be much cheaper and I wouldn't have to move my family, but I don't think RVU would be a bad choice either.

Very interesting read, thanks for posting this!

 

[JW08]

An interesting tidbit to think about...I'm a non-trad and not sure where or if I'll be going to medical school yet. Currently I'm a genomics scientist at ARUP Laboratories in Salt Lake City, which, until a month ago, was a for-profit company. Guess who the ONLY share holder in the company is? Ding, ding, ding...the University of Utah School of Medicine...WHAT? More than that, half of the faculty members from the Pathology Department have their labs at ARUP and are instructed to design medical tests (many pathologists do this) and more or less prohibited from basic science research because it doesn't make money. They are instructed to design tests that will make ARUP the most money. ARUP was a $500 million company last year. It's a great place to work, they pay high, much higher than you find in other research positions. I don't think anyone would argue that the University of Utah doesn't have a great medical school. However, this makes me wonder how many medical schools are skirting the for profit issue by doing things similar to the U of U (open a for profit company to make money). A great deal of teaching happens at ARUP. ALL the Pathology residents and most of their fellows have a majority of their training at ARUP, which was for profit until a month ago. When the change in profit status was changed we were told that NOTHING would change except that now we could purchase academic priced items.

So, RVU is for profit, but they might still provide a great education. Nurses are taught in for profit schools and they are an important part of medical care. And isn't RVU doing some great things to make sure their students are succeeding? Didn't I read on here somewhere that they're loaning their own students money? Seems like they're invested in their students. All places cut corners to save money, especially universities. The last university I worked at stopped hiring new faculty and stopped building because they ran out of funds. This increased the teaching load of faculty and class size. I'm sure many institutions have been forced to do this recently, but they are probably still providing a quality education like I'm guessing RVU will. As long as RVU graduates competent physicians I just don't see the problem unless people are standing against RVU simply on principle and not because there's any evidence that RVU will actually produce incompetent physicians. I read a lot of hypotheticals on here about RVU cutting corners and hurting their students and the profession, but where's the evidence? The argument has been made that RVU will become the University of Phoenix of medical schools, but based on what? University of Phoenix has virtually no entrance requirements and what's the quality of their faculty (I don't actually know)...not to mention they're SO overpriced. However, I did a quick search and RVU has a class size that's comparable to other DO schools, tuition that's comparable, and even detractors have mentioned here that the faculty are well qualified to be teaching.

Anyway, like I said I don't know where or if I'll go. I hope to be at my state school if I go (the U), because it will be much cheaper and I wouldn't have to move my family, but I don't think RVU would be a bad choice either.

and not to mention military funding many students to go here. According to school's records, RVU has highest number of military students than other DO schools.

 

[JW08]

So they'll be like a Caribbean School and do two years of board prep rather than the more traditional basic science curricula?

if you are really concerned, instead of asking people here that question, you should go checkout the school or ask students who go there. Besides the founder, I dont think there is anything else common between carribean & RVU..

ohh another good source would be the doctors in the area that are letting RVU students shadowing them.

 

[Bones DO]

if you are really concerned, instead of asking people here that question, you should go checkout the school or ask students who go there. Besides the founder, I dont think there is anything else common between carribean & RVU..

ohh another good source would be the doctors in the area that are letting RVU students shadowing them.

 

[Tirgwyn]

I'm not going to comment on the for porfit status part. As far as Education goes at RV, The new Dean is Dr. Bruce Duben, former interum for TCOM, and the new Head of OMM (osteopathic medicine) is Dr. Stoll. Dr. Stoll is the Osteopathic physician, when someone has a question, he's the guy they call. A good bit of TCOM's staff are going to RVCOM. I didn't apply this year because I didn't apply out of Texas, however if I don't get into TCOM, I'm applying to RVCOM.

 

[bth7]

So they'll be like a Caribbean School and do two years of board prep rather than the more traditional basic science curricula?

yes.

 

[MeowMix]

Aren't the more traditional basic sciences curricula learned in undergrad as pre-requisite courses?

No. Basic sciences in med school means basic medical sciences, not chem phys & bio. Unless you have an amazing undergrad education, you need extra coursework to get the anatomy, physiology, etc.. In the US system, that coursework is your first 2 yrs of med school.

The thing people are arguing about is whether US schools` training is broad-based and focuses on deep understanding of the material, compared to the Caribbean schools supposedly preparing you just to get a passing score on USMLE Step 1. I have worked with fine graduates of Caribbean schools and crappy ones of US schools, and I think it depends much more on the individual than the school. There are plenty of US schools where the teaching is so bad that you are essentially teaching yourself all the material anyway.

 

[PETRADOCS]

when are the Step 1 results back? and when do rotations start?

 

[Dctreric]

Ok I go to rocky vista university and a lot of these threads are hilarious! Most of these opinions are so biased with no actual knowledge...I bet a lot of you vote the same card as your parents "its what I BELIEVE!, even though its the only thing my parents want me to believe". I have no stakes in RVU and I will be incredibly frank with you about this school. The lack of federal funding is an issue if you dont want private loans. As for the general biz of the school...it is like every other school I have been to. From a students stand point it is challenging and they dont cut us slack. We still have to pass all the same boards as the rest of you...and yes we take the usmle if we choose(which they dont grade us differently". Our average MCAT is 27ish, and yes I know this is not high for MD schools...but no one really expected it to be right? In the end we test and interview the same as any other graduate, and the schools life depends on us doing well. The admin stuff is ran like a corp, which means no tenure and if the teach is sucking...they are out.

 

[kuanileqa]

Ok I go to rocky vista university and a lot of these threads are hilarious! Most of these opinions are so biased with no actual knowledge...I bet a lot of you vote the same card as your parents "its what I BELIEVE!, even though its the only thing my parents want me to believe". I have no stakes in RVU and I will be incredibly frank with you about this school. The lack of federal funding is an issue if you dont want private loans. As for the general biz of the school...it is like every other school I have been to. From a students stand point it is challenging and they dont cut us slack. We still have to pass all the same boards as the rest of you...and yes we take the usmle if we choose(which they dont grade us differently". Our average MCAT is 27ish, and yes I know this is not high for MD schools...but no one really expected it to be right? In the end we test and interview the same as any other graduate, and the schools life depends on us doing well. The admin stuff is ran like a corp, which means no tenure and if the teach is sucking...they are out.

Thanks for adding some legitimacy to this slanted thread.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

Ok I go to rocky vista university and a lot of these threads are hilarious! Most of these opinions are so biased with no actual knowledge...I bet a lot of you vote the same card as your parents "its what I BELIEVE!, even though its the only thing my parents want me to believe". I have no stakes in RVU and I will be incredibly frank with you about this school. The lack of federal funding is an issue if you dont want private loans. As for the general biz of the school...it is like every other school I have been to. From a students stand point it is challenging and they dont cut us slack. We still have to pass all the same boards as the rest of you...and yes we take the usmle if we choose(which they dont grade us differently". Our average MCAT is 27ish, and yes I know this is not high for MD schools...but no one really expected it to be right? In the end we test and interview the same as any other graduate, and the schools life depends on us doing well. The admin stuff is ran like a corp, which means no tenure and if the teach is sucking...they are out.

What's more hilarious than these threads is you bumping a thread from May to cheerlead for RVU

 

[DO Anes]

What's more hilarious than these threads is you bumping a thread from May to cheerlead for RVU

Maybe the students get to buy stock in the scheme if they help prop it up. Every carnival needs a barker.

 

[NurWollen]

The admin stuff is ran like a corp, which means no tenure and if the teach is sucking...they are out.

This might be a good thing. My undergrad has some fantastic faculty, but dealing with any office in the administration building- financial aid, career advising, registrar's office- is a pain in the neck. If I treated customers at my job the way students get treated in the administration building, I wouldn't have a job. Mayb a litte profit motive can be a good thing.

 

[JW08]

Maybe the students get to buy stock in the scheme if they help prop it up. Every carnival needs a barker.

DO Anes, you seem to have strong negative opinions about RVU. Is it based on actual facts or just because its a for-profit school.
Your profile says you are an attending;may be you should come here and give a lecture and talk to students and make a educated opinion. RVU invites lot of guests from different part of the country to give an hour lecture or teach for a week.

 

[Dr Yiot]

Seriously though how funny would it be if students coming from rvu rocked the boards and pulled some crazy legit residencies. You all would HAVE put your foot in your mouth.

Fyi i do not go to rvu and did not apply but i think people are bieng a little harsh here.

 

[JW08]

Seriously though how funny would it be if students coming from rvu rocked the boards and pulled some crazy legit residencies. You all would HAVE put your foot in your mouth.

Fyi i do not go to rvu and did not apply but i think people are bieng a little harsh here.

RVU may not have received strong applicants for their first class because of all the bad publicity, but the following classes are getting better and better applicants. Deans' goal is to bring RVU as one of the top school, and that is why he is being a hard@$$ and does not cut any slack to students.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

RVU may not have received strong applicants for their first class because of all the bad publicity, but the following classes are getting better and better applicants. Deans' goal is to bring RVU as one of the top school, and that is why he is being a hard@$$ and does not cut any slack to students.

Because this comment makes me want to attend RVU...

 

[grasshopperking]

Medicine is already full of for-profit institutions that serve the public and are not complained about. who would refuse to use a for-profit hospital or private practice clinic. Those are the norm in america. If for profit status is the accepted standard for the delivery of medical care why do we find it so distasteful to see a medical school that is for profit. All of the non profit medical schools are training future doctors how will for the most part be for-profit.

 

[cbrons]

Medicine is already full of for-profit institutions that serve the public and are not complained about. who would refuse to use a for-profit hospital or private practice clinic. Those are the norm in america. If for profit status is the accepted standard for the delivery of medical care why do we find it so distasteful to see a medical school that is for profit. All of the non profit medical schools are training future doctors how will for the most part be for-profit.

Troll.

Who cares about for profit status. Lets see what their scores/match lists are in the next few years, compare them to scores/lists from new non-profit institutions and draw our conclusions. Until then, shut the **** up.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

Troll.

Who cares about for profit status. Lets see what their scores/match lists are in the next few years, compare them to scores/lists from new non-profit institutions and draw our conclusions. Until then, shut the **** up.

That is a pretty sweet Screen Name he has though.