Roe v Wade is rumored to be overturned soon.

[Proudfather94]

What are your opinions on this and the impact it will have on female rights, reproductive health, and how it will impact your family and practice.

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[Trefoil]

What are your opinions on this and the impact it will have on female rights, reproductive health, and how it will impact your family and practice.

Well, it will be more dangerous for women to live in about half the states, and it will be dangerous to practice obstetrics in those states. There are bills banning abortion in the case of ectopic pregnancy in the pipeline and are punishable by imprisonment. Basically, women with means will be flying to coastal cities for abortions and everyone else is out of luck. Overall this will have a negative impact on maternal mortality and will increase the poverty rate in red states.

 

[Proudfather94]

Well, it will be more dangerous for women to live in about half the states, and it will be dangerous to practice obstetrics in those states. There are bills banning abortion in the case of ectopic pregnancy in the pipeline and are punishable by imprisonment. Basically, women with means will be flying to coastal cities for abortions and everyone else is out of luck. Overall this will have a negative impact on maternal mortality and will increase the poverty rate in red states.

I think it's crazy that this is happening. I wonder how many physicians will risk their freedom to treat their patient and how many women have to pointlessly die for this to be changed. I think alot of specialties will be dealing with this alot of women in unwanted pregnancies will try to self terminate or just not do gestational care and continue to do things that are harmful to the baby.

 

[FutureInternist]

Well, it will be more dangerous for women to live in about half the states, and it will be dangerous to practice obstetrics in those states. There are bills banning abortion in the case of ectopic pregnancy in the pipeline and are punishable by imprisonment. Basically, women with means will be flying to coastal cities for abortions and everyone else is out of luck. Overall this will have a negative impact on maternal mortality and will increase the poverty rate in red states.

Yet these same “pro-life” states don’t give an F about the the baby one second after its born.
Cut food stamps
Fights paid leave
Fight minimum wage increase
Fight unionisation
Fight proper sex education
Fight Planned Parenthood

Then (as with most Republican states) help yourself to a disproportionate amount of federal $, while decrying “Socialsim”.

Hypocrites to the very core

 

[Dr Meow]

At this point, you see what congress does?
This is just another addition to their culture war tactic.
They keep pulling all these stunts just as a distraction. They know exactly how people will react. People will fight and cause outrage. And in that outrage, they've successfully distracted everyone from poverty, our falling education quality, improving healthcare, the economic inequality, overseas atrocities, etc.

Clinton is jumping into the spotlight too. I won't be surprised they're working together behind the scenes to set up a good image for her campaign.
Lots of crap going on behind the scenes that none of us can precisely guess as non-insiders. However, the trends over the years have been consistent.

Culture war tactics works well as a distraction from the real problems. For 100 years, lets keep people focused on battling social issues so we can continue to milk them for tangible assets. To quote a certain rich person, we're not livestock, we "capital stock" to be farmed for money.

These people sit in a room together. You think after work, they don't go to their golf courses and discuss how to mutually screw people to the collective benefits of themselves? That's also why we always have to pick the lesser of 2 evils every election cycle. There's no real choice to begin with.

 

[FutureInternist]

At this point, you see what congress does?
This is just another addition to their culture war tactic.
They keep pulling all these stunts just as a distraction. They know exactly how people will react. People will fight and cause outrage. And in that outrage, they've successfully distracted everyone from poverty, our falling education quality, improving healthcare, the economic inequality, overseas atrocities, etc.

Clinton is jumping into the spotlight too. I won't be surprised they're working together behind the scenes to set up a good image for her campaign.
Lots of crap going on behind the scenes that none of us can precisely guess as non-insiders. However, the trends over the years have been consistent.

Culture war tactics works well as a distraction from the real problems. For 100 years, lets keep people focused on battling social issues so we can continue to milk them for tangible assets. To quote a certain rich person, we're not livestock, we "capital stock" to be farmed for money.

These people sit in a room together. You think after work, they don't go to their golf courses and discuss how to mutually screw people to the collective benefits of themselves? That's also why we always have to pick the lesser of 2 evils every election cycle. There's no real choice to begin with.

Agree…. And for the most part its always the Dems that are the lesser evils of the two.

 

[Mad Jack]

What are your opinions on this and the impact it will have on female rights, reproductive health, and how it will impact your family and practice.

IUD and plan B bans will no doubt follow. The level to which we are going back with regard to reproductive health will be horrifying, and Roe is but the start

 

[Mad Jack]

At this point, you see what congress does?
This is just another addition to their culture war tactic.
They keep pulling all these stunts just as a distraction. They know exactly how people will react. People will fight and cause outrage. And in that outrage, they've successfully distracted everyone from poverty, our falling education quality, improving healthcare, the economic inequality, overseas atrocities, etc.

Clinton is jumping into the spotlight too. I won't be surprised they're working together behind the scenes to set up a good image for her campaign.
Lots of crap going on behind the scenes that none of us can precisely guess as non-insiders. However, the trends over the years have been consistent.

Culture war tactics works well as a distraction from the real problems. For 100 years, lets keep people focused on battling social issues so we can continue to milk them for tangible assets. To quote a certain rich person, we're not livestock, we "capital stock" to be farmed for money.

These people sit in a room together. You think after work, they don't go to their golf courses and discuss how to mutually screw people to the collective benefits of themselves? That's also why we always have to pick the lesser of 2 evils every election cycle. There's no real choice to begin with.

It's laughable you think this has anything to do with any Clinton. This was a very long game by the Republicans that was pulled off care of weak Democrats. It isn't a "culture war," it is a health issue that is literally going to result in the death and suffering of women across much of the nation

 

[DarkBluMage]

As a woman, I’m happy about it and completely for it. 🥳

 

[Proudfather94]

At this point, you see what congress does?
This is just another addition to their culture war tactic.
They keep pulling all these stunts just as a distraction. They know exactly how people will react. People will fight and cause outrage. And in that outrage, they've successfully distracted everyone from poverty, our falling education quality, improving healthcare, the economic inequality, overseas atrocities, etc.

Clinton is jumping into the spotlight too. I won't be surprised they're working together behind the scenes to set up a good image for her campaign.
Lots of crap going on behind the scenes that none of us can precisely guess as non-insiders. However, the trends over the years have been consistent.

Culture war tactics works well as a distraction from the real problems. For 100 years, lets keep people focused on battling social issues so we can continue to milk them for tangible assets. To quote a certain rich person, we're not livestock, we "capital stock" to be farmed for money.

These people sit in a room together. You think after work, they don't go to their golf courses and discuss how to mutually screw people to the collective benefits of themselves? That's also why we always have to pick the lesser of 2 evils every election cycle. There's no real choice to begin with.

While I do believe that is true we really need to stop the GOP from making human rights illegal.

IUD and plan B bans will no doubt follow. The level to which we are going back with regard to reproductive health will be horrifying, and Roe is but the start

They are already starting to do that in some states as well as not letting people that are pregnant leave the state without having to prove they are still pregnant on return. I don't see how they can do that legally because the "crime" would occur in another state which means they don't have jurisdiction to prosecute.

As a woman, I’m happy about it and completely for it. 🥳

You're against people getting any kind of abortion?

 

[FutureInternist]

IUD and plan B bans will no doubt follow. The level to which we are going back with regard to reproductive health will be horrifying, and Roe is but the start

Yup… several folks have already started pushing these, and other proposals such as condoms for married people only.

I cannot fathom any minority, racial or sexual, voting for such fascist laws

 

[Proudfather94]

Yup… several folks have already started pushing these, and other proposals such as condoms for married people only.

I cannot fathom any minority, racial or sexual, voting for such fascist laws

I wonder what's going to happen in all of these states if they lose a large portion of their educated populace? I would be afraid to practice in one of these states because what happens if you follow the laws, your patient dies of something preventable during pregnancy, and then the law eventually gets overturned and your state tries to pin the death on you to escape accountability?
Vandy got Vaught charged to get CMS off their back using the state, Gainey got arrested because a Trump cabinets family member fell and died in her care, another nurse got charged with manslaughter for COs choking a prisoner out. These are all examples of organizations using connections with states to put the blame off of them and on to healthcare workers so this isn't a reach. I could see a DA in Louisiana being like "yeah I know the law said that you couldn't treat that ectopic pregnancy, but since you're a doctor and swore an oath to protect your patient you should have broken the law to do so, this is negligent homicide."

With these states being ran using under good ole boy brand of justice I'm sure they're going to be the exact opposite of fair and honest when this eventually gets overturned and people get outraged at the preventable deaths. Bet they'll hire doctors to see if you even deviated a little bit from the standard of care and if you did congrats you're now being charged for murder.

 

[FutureInternist]

I wonder what's going to happen in all of these states if they lose a large portion of their educated populace? I would be afraid to practice in one of these states because what happens if you follow the laws, your patient dies of something preventable during pregnancy, and then the law eventually gets overturned and your state tries to pin the death on you to escape accountability?
Vandy got Vaught charged to get CMS off their back using the state, Gainey got arrested because a Trump cabinets family member fell and died in her care, another nurse got charged with manslaughter for COs choking a prisoner out. These are all examples of organizations using connections with states to put the blame off of them and on to healthcare workers so this isn't a reach. I could see a DA in Louisiana being like "yeah I know the law said that you couldn't treat that ectopic pregnancy, but since you're a doctor and swore an oath to protect your patient you should have broken the law to do so, this is negligent homicide."

They don’t care who they hurt since “the end justify the means”.

There will always be people who have to stay where they due to lack of resources, families, jobs etc. and the docs who end up treating them may be the ones who agree with these bat**** crazy policies.

And ofcourse if a woman does die in these states, it would obviously her fault cos she dared have sex, or dared to get raped../s

 

[Proudfather94]

They don’t care who they hurt since “the end justify the means”.

There will always be people who have to stay where they due to lack of resources, families, jobs etc. and the docs who end up treating them may be the ones who agree with these bat**** crazy policies.

And ofcourse if a woman does die in these states, it would obviously her fault cos she dared have sex, or dared to get raped../s

I'm calling it now when the outrage occurs when the deaths start rolling in the state will blame the people treating these patients.

 

[Proudfather94]

It really wouldn't be hard for them to hire a few doctors to review women's charts that died during pregnancy and come up with anything to pin it on the staff. A pt that died of an ectopic pregnancy but had Fentanyl in her system because she's a drug abuser "she had Fentanyl in her system and you didn't give her Narcan? She didn't die of an ectopic pregnancy she died of an overdose you neglected your patient!" Even though the pt had no signs of overdose. They don't even have to win these cases just charge a few doctors, let the news get involved, everyone's mad at the doctors and the state gets plausible deniability and the attentions off of them come election time.

If I was a soulless politician that's exactly what I would do. You swore an oath to your patient not the law so if my screw up made people die because you couldn't practice medicine well you broke your oath you deserve to go down.

 

[Mad Jack]

Yup… several folks have already started pushing these, and other proposals such as condoms for married people only.

I cannot fathom any minority, racial or sexual, voting for such fascist laws

The GOP is clearly the party of unobtrusive government and freedom incarnate

 

[Mad Jack]

A Republican Senate candidate endorsed by Peter Thiel is campaigning on a pledge to vote only for judges who oppose the SCOTUS ruling establishing the right to birth control

Blake Masters pledged to vote for judges who believe Griswold v. Connecticut, Roe v. Wade, and Planned Parenthood v. Casey were wrongly decided.

www.businessinsider.com

Where they see an inch they'll try and take a mile

 

[Proudfather94]

A Republican Senate candidate endorsed by Peter Thiel is campaigning on a pledge to vote only for judges who oppose the SCOTUS ruling establishing the right to birth control

Blake Masters pledged to vote for judges who believe Griswold v. Connecticut, Roe v. Wade, and Planned Parenthood v. Casey were wrongly decided.

www.businessinsider.com

Where they see an inch they'll try and take a mile

That's totally how democracy should work.


Another thing, not only do these physicians have to worry about the state trying to make them scapegoats, they'll have to worry about the families of the pregnant women that died under their care. Do they really think all of these husbands and fathers are going to just shrug their shoulders go that's life and go about their way? I'm willing to bet some will blame the doctor for their death and seek retribution.

 

[Mad Jack]

That's totally how democracy should work.


Another thing, not only do these physicians have to worry about the state trying to make them scapegoats, they'll have to worry about the families of the pregnant women that died under their care. Do they really think all of these husbands and fathers are going to just shrug their shoulders go that's life and go about their way? I'm willing to bet some will blame the doctor for their death and seek retribution.

And then look at my field- I work with severe mental illness. Many medications that these patients require to function interfere with the function of hormonal birth control, and if a pregnancy occurs can cause significant birth defects. Their judgment is often impaired at baseline due to the long-term cognitive effects and residual symptoms of their illnesses. So long as they are on these medications, we recommend two forms of contraception for these patients, one of which is ideally long-term (IUD or implant). Often they cannot function outside of an institution when they are unmedicated, which puts me in the impossible choice of not prescribing these medications and falling short of the standard of care or prescribing them to a patient that cannot reasonably be expected to not become pregnant in the future. Both of these scenarios create enormous liability and potential loss of licensure. I literally cannot practice my profession ethically in a state that does not offer readily available contraception.

 

[Proudfather94]

And then look at my field- I work with severe mental illness. Many medications that these patients require to function interfere with the function of hormonal birth control, and if a pregnancy occurs can cause significant birth defects. Their judgment is often impaired at baseline due to the long-term cognitive effects and residual symptoms of their illnesses. So long as they are on these medications, we recommend two forms of contraception for these patients, one of which is ideally long-term (IUD or implant). Often they cannot function outside of an institution when they are unmedicated, which puts me in the impossible choice of not prescribing these medications and falling sjort of the standard of care or prescribing them to a patient that cannot reasonably be expected to not become pregnant in the future. Both of these scenarios create enormous liability and potential loss of licensure. I literally cannot practice my profession ethically in a state that does not offer readily available contraception.

Since the politician motto is deny, deflect, resign I'm sure they would be more than happy to throw you under the bus in these states since you willingly fell short of the standard of care. I wouldn't work in these states as that job is the definition of a proverbial time bomb just waiting to go off by the state, the hospital, or a pissed off family member that wants justice.

 

[FutureInternist]

😡

 

[DD214]

Yes, returning Roe v Wade to the states is going to result in the return of slavery.

Who is stupid enough to believe this???

 

[Proudfather94]

Yes, returning Roe v Wade to the states is going to result in the return of slavery.

Who is stupid enough to believe this???

Why wouldn't they? Look at what the governor of Texas is doing. Wouldn't be too big of a leap for them to go "hey want your kids to be able to read? Better go work my field."

 

[Trefoil]

Yes, returning Roe v Wade to the states is going to result in the return of slavery.

Who is stupid enough to believe this???

I think that is a disingenuous statement. Let’s break it down into two parts. The first part of your assertion “Return Roe v Wade to the states.” Let’s be clear, Roe v. Wade took the decision away from the government and gave it to the individual. This is a case of the government gaining power over reproductive decisions that were previously made by a physician and patient.

The second part is more egregious of an exaggeration. No one here brought up slavery but you. The reason people are afraid of losing the right to abortion for medical treatment is because states are already working on laws that ban abortion in all cases, including rape, incest, and ectopic pregnancy. To my knowledge, Missouri, Idaho, and Louisiana are a few examples. The IUD and plan B access is also being examined in Idaho and Louisiana. So every concern brought up is real to some portion of the US. The concerns about getting imprisoned or sued are a logical extension of the laws that are being created in these states.

Finally, I want to state that I’m not actually some abortion fanboy. I think they would be largely unnecessary if we expanded IUD access, the problem is that the same states pulling this crap are the ones with the lowest access to reproductive care. This is a situation where ideology is coming before reason. Reason states that abortions are a sad but necessary reality for women in tough positions. Reason states that we should try to help these women avoid the situations that make abortion necessary. Ideology convinces people that somehow they can magically make abortion go away by making it illegal. Reason states that you just created an unregulated market of illegal abortions. We should be asking questions about what policy is actually going to be effective instead of what policy supports my beliefs.

 

[FutureInternist]

Yes, returning Roe v Wade to the states is going to result in the return of slavery.

Who is stupid enough to believe this???

Not slavery… but gay marriage, the right to NOT get fired just for being gay, contraception (even pills)… and based on the fact that these rights were not enumerated in the Constitution… the same one that says Blacks are 3/5th of a man (cos slave owing Aholes wanted them to count toward population for extra representatives), and doesn’t give women the right to vote.

This is why any minority voting Republican is betraying what their predecessors have fought (and died) for

 

[DD214]

^ You're the one who posted that idiotic graphic with the dominoes falling

 

[DD214]

No one here brought up slavery but you.

FutureInternist disagrees with you

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Let's keep on the topic of how this potential decision affects healthcare. If you want to discuss political aspects of this, there are plenty of other places to do that.

As always, there's no need to insult other posters.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

With the pro-life debate settled, I’m glad the Congress can finally focus on the next steps: Universal Basic Income and Universal Healthcare… ya know, to support dem babies!

 

[deleted1100659]

With the pro-life debate settled, I’m glad the Congress can finally focus on the next steps: Universal Basic Income and Universal Healthcare… ya know, to support dem babies!

if my patients were given universal basic income, I can almost guarantee there would be a higher rate of SUD in my area then there already is, more relapsing, and more overdosing. It would be the equivalent of food stamps, which in itself, is a program that doesnt really work well and is poorly regulated. If they made it more similar to WIC, then I could get on board with that, which is a great program that makes total sense.

The irony of the people opposed to abortion, of the argument they value life but also tend to value the right to bear arms.

Some people should not be parents, and these people turning into parents makes their life worse, the kids life worse, and overall state of things worse. For all the people who are 100% anti abortion, that's reasonable, as long as they sign something stating they agree to adopt the child as soon as its born and financially care for the child.

 

[Kokonaut]

Yes, returning Roe v Wade to the states is going to result in the return of slavery.

Who is stupid enough to believe this???

To be fair, we never entirely got rid of slavery. We decided inmates are still allowed to be slaves and while it probably isn't a popular cause to champion the rights of inmates, the war on drugs sure did disproportionately put more minorities behind bars.

 

[deleted1100659]

To be fair, we never entirely got rid of slavery. We decided inmates are still allowed to be slaves and while it probably isn't a popular cause to champion the rights of inmates, the war on drugs sure did disproportionately put more minorities behind bars.

The prison system has issues but I would not equate being a prisoner to being a slave, that's a bit of a leap.

 

[Kokonaut]

The prison system has issues but I would not equate being a prisoner to being a slave, that's a bit of a leap.

I'm not stating that simply being a prisoner equates to being a slave. I'm saying that we legally allow inmates to be enslaved.

The 13th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution

SECTION. 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

constitutioncenter.org

Section 1 grants a carve-out section of the 13th amendment allowing for slavery or involuntary labor to be allowed as punishment for a crime once someone has been convicted.

 

[Mad Jack]

Not slavery… but gay marriage, the right to NOT get fired just for being gay, contraception (even pills)… and based on the fact that these rights were not enumerated in the Constitution… the same one that says Blacks are 3/5th of a man (cos slave owing Aholes wanted them to count toward population for extra representatives), and doesn’t give women the right to vote.

This is why any minority voting Republican is betraying what their predecessors have fought (and died) for

And let's not forget the bans on treating ectopic pregnancies that will literally be murdering women for no reason

 

[Osminog]

For those who believe that embryos and fetuses have equal moral status to human beings in later stages of development, this would be a major healthcare victory for millions of patients who are unborn.

For those who believe that embryos and fetuses lack personhood and moral status, this would be a major healthcare defeat for millions of adolescent and adult female patients who have unwanted pregnancies.

Regardless of the future of Roe v. Wade, both of these groups will continue to argue past one another, the former reciting Bible verses and the latter reciting hollow catchphrases. They will continue to attribute the worst imaginable intentions to the other side (“the Left just wants to murder babies,” “the Right just wants to control women’s bodies”), and meaningful social progress won’t be made.

 

[Browns99]

Why wouldn't they? Look at what the governor of Texas is doing. Wouldn't be too big of a leap for them to go "hey want your kids to be able to read? Better go work my field."

One of the most ignorant comments I have seen in a while.

 

[Proudfather94]

One of the most ignorant comments I have seen in a while.

How so? If every child doesn't have a right to an education you'll have to pay for it somehow right?

 

[Browns99]

How so? If every child doesn't have a right to an education you'll have to pay for it somehow right?

"Wouldn't be too big of a leap for them to go "hey want your kids to be able to read? Better go work my field."....Totally ridiculous statement and contributes nothing to this site.

 

[Proudfather94]

"Wouldn't be too big of a leap for them to go "hey want your kids to be able to read? Better go work my field."....Totally ridiculous statement and contributes nothing to this site.

To be frank your comments quoting my post contribute even less.

 

[Browns99]

To be frank your comments quoting my post contribute even less.

Cool, feeling is mutual....

 

[Mad Jack]

It happened. Welcome to the 1960s people

 

[Proudfather94]

It happened. Welcome to the 1960s people

Yeah I feel like anyone with the resources that's not a religious wackjob are going to be fleeing these states. Doctors, nurses, teachers, etc.

 

[DarkBluMage]

🥳

 

[Mad Jack]

Yeah I feel like anyone with the resources that's not a religious wackjob are going to be fleeing these states. Doctors, nurses, teachers, etc.

If anything liberals should be fleeing *to* Texas. If Texas goes blue, the GOP will never win the presidency again

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

If anything liberals should be fleeing *to* Texas. If Texas goes blue, the GOP will never win the presidency again

I mean, isn't that already happening?

 

[Mad Jack]

I mean, isn't that already happening?

To some degree. There are also a lot of conservative people moving there though. Gotta tip those scales

 

[Proudfather94]

If anything liberals should be fleeing *to* Texas. If Texas goes blue, the GOP will never win the presidency again

I say let all of the educated people who value reproductive freedom leave those states. If they can't get enough people to staff schools and hospitals that may freak them out enough to change the laws.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I say let all of the educated people who value reproductive freedom leave those states. If they can't get enough people to staff schools and hospitals that may freak them out enough to change the laws.

Won't happen

 

[Mad Jack]

I say let all of the educated people who value reproductive freedom leave those states. If they can't get enough people to staff schools and hospitals that may freak them out enough to change the laws.

The kinds of people that push for these laws would rather die than give up their position

 

[Proudfather94]

Won't happen

How so? Teachers, lawyers, nurses, doctors, and more make enough money to go to other states to work.