romantic relationships for older non-trads, how did it work out for you?

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Apologies if this is not relevant to the thread (will delete if asked to).

I've been in a long-term relationship with a special someone that I'm intending on marrying. We're ~30 years old.

However, the non-trad medical journey is long and tough. My SO has expressed doubts about whether or not she's willing to postpone the house, kids, and white picket fence for at least another decade until med school + residency wraps up.

For the people who were in serious relationships and decided to go down the non-trad path, how did it play out for you? Do you regret it or not regret it? What would you have done differently and what would you have warned your previous self?

As for any doctors on this thread, is medicine worth putting a great relationship at risk/strain? Which would you (or have) prioritize more? Why?

Note: Obviously, everyone's answers will be personal and ultimately it is up to me to decide. But it would be comforting to hear people's wisdom on this topic, especially from non trads who have been through this before :)
 
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TragicalDrFaust

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If I didn’t have the 100% support of my partner, the combination of medical school and maintaining the relationship would be insurmountable. I’m a 28yo OMS-1. I make time for her but I’m thankful she’s extremely flexible. Sometimes all we get in a day is a couple minutes here and there of talking or having a quick meal together. We’re planning on starting a family in the next few years and just accepting that I can’t be there for every moment of the kids’s lives. She’s interested in staying at home but her earning potential is high enough that we have the option of her working and paying for childcare. That takes a lot of pressure off.

I can understand a partner having concerns but doubts are not a good sign. The house and picket fence are a long way off. Even if you get into a comfortable financial situation, you won’t be able to be present for the next 7+ years. She seems to recognize she’s going to have to put her life on hold too. Is that sacrifice worth it to her?
 
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Bloobury

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Apologies if this is not relevant to the thread (will delete if asked to).

I've been in a long-term relationship with a special someone that I'm intending on marrying. We're ~30 years old.

However, the non-trad medical journey is long and tough. My SO has expressed doubts about whether or not she's willing to postpone the house, kids, and white picket fence for at least another decade until med school + residency wraps up.

For the people who were in serious relationships and decided to go down the non-trad path, how did it play out for you? Do you regret it or not regret it? What would you have done differently and what would you have warned your previous self?

As for any doctors on this thread, is medicine worth putting a great relationship at risk/strain? Which would you (or have) prioritize more? Why?

Note: Obviously, everyone's answers will be personal and ultimately it is up to me to decide. But it would be comforting to hear people's wisdom on this topic, especially from non trads who have been through this before :)
Broke up with my partner for this reason - their not being willing/able to support my journey. I don't need that nonsense. People come and go, but your life is yours alone. Your priorities may be different, but at least for me, I believe that I'm the only thing I can count on. If I make my own way in the world, doing work that is fulfilling to me, having hobbies that are fulfilling, and building friendships that are meaningful, I will be content. Even if it means I don't get the house and white picket fence and whatever.

It sounds like your relationship is currently good. Have a real honest conversation with yourself about the rigors of medical training and what is more important to *you* - your potential career or your potential family with this partner. It's not that you can't have both, but are you willing to give up your relationship, if you had to? What would you do if the roles were reversed and your partner was going to take on a bunch of debt and schooling for a career change? Will you never be fulfilled and regret it if you don't become a doctor? What are you willing to sacrifice?
 
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Stranger00120

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My partner and I broke up because he didn't think he could handle the rigors of my medical training, this was before I was even accepted. It actually took another five years for me to get in (a lot of reinvention), but I got accepted last week. Looking back, I don't regret it. If we had stayed together I would have ended up giving up on my dream, and likely we would have ultimately not made it (I was expected to support him in his goals, but I didn't get the same support back), so I would have ended up divorced and not in medical school. Do I think the experiences that I've had over the last five years to reinvent and get accepted have been worth it? Yes, I can't imagine my life any other way now, but ultimately, it really is a very personal decision.

I can't imagine my life without becoming a physician, which is why I've continued on this path, but if you can't imagine your life without your partner, and she can't picture herself putting off kids into her 40s because you're in med school and residency, then you have a very big decision to make.
 
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samc

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The big problem in my relationship was my BF not relocating from NYC to Cincinnati when I got into med school in Cincinnati. He said that he would, and to be fair, he tried to commute back and forth, but it didn't work and I told him to go back to New York, effectively putting us on hold for multiple years. He did not really, truly understand that med school might involve relocation.

(We don't have kids.)

The flip side to that is that if I had it to do over again, I would have attended the East Coast med school at which I had an offer (Cooper in Camden, NJ, across the river from Philadelphia). I feel that it was a mistake to go to Cincinnati and decimate my personal life. At the time that I accepted Cincinnati's offer, my BF was saying that he'd move out there, but I knew deep down he wouldn't.

Another angle that I don't really advertise, but that is true, is that I'm not 1000% sure I would do an MD again if I had it to do over. The reason I am not sure is precisely because of its effect on my personal life. I dropped out of a direct entry 3-year NP program after 1 year, with a BSN, to start premed prerequisites. Having become a nurse practitioner would be a disaster academically and intellectually, but would have given me a lot more time with my SO. Food for thought.

Some angles here: he is a lot older than me (turning 71, so we don't have infinite time) and did not have a stressful career (retired librarian). So he is supportive of my efforts, but not particularly empathetic when it comes to the extras, like pushing out a paper on the weekends. With a professionally ambitious person my own age, things would be a little easier to navigate.
 
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samc

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Also, perhaps wrongly assuming you're a guy and she's a woman, my med school class had a TON of married new fathers, many actually fathering children in med school itself. So if she has some flexibility, you may not need to put everything off for quite so long.
 
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GreenDuck12

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I think the key is being upfront about what going to medical school and residency will mean for both of you and ultimately the sacrifices each of you are willing to make. Your medical education and training will limit where you can live and to some extent your partner will not have much of a say in this, particularly with regards to the match. For me, I had a lot of long conversations with my partner about what this would look like and why I wanted to do it. Fortunately my partner came around and has been supportive and we both have made sacrifices to make it work. Good communication and strategies to manage problems and stress are huge. On the flip side, a couple folks in my class are seriously looking at divorce.
 
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No offense man but that is something you have to talk to your woman about. You're not going to find your answer here.

Nobody can tell you if it is worth it or not because only you understand your relationship.

As an aside, please don't get in the habit of asking for relationship advice from others. That is mistake #1.
 
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Crayola227

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Um, being in your 30s and putting off kids for another 10 years? Totally unreasonable plan if it really matters to you to have your own genetic children. Great plan if you want to go down the infertility route. At some point you have to pursue both family or career or risk only ending up with career.

I'm mid 30s and miscarrying my first pregnancy of twins - and both situations (miscarriage and twins) can absolutely be attributed to age. And we were lucky our fertility seems otherwise intact as it took 3 mos trying. Jury is still out what ovarian reserve does this year as we try again. At some point it craps out on you and you become infertile.

1 in 4 women is infertile at age 30 (1 year of failing by definition) and it keeps going up as you go. Maternal fetal medicine told me you still have time until you get to 37 or 38 but that's really when the luck starts running out, but still. I know so many couples dealing with infertility in their 30s. There are infertility success stories but it's easy not to appreciate the cost both in terms of stress, time, money, and just the physical gruel of treatments. We take male fertility with age for granted but it is also affected and higher incidence of health issues in babies to older fathers. And don't assume medical intervention can always overcome infertility.

The time to start trying for a family if that's really important to you, is 30s, unequivocally.
 
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lumya

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I too ended a relationship with my long-term partner. He would verbalize his support but I realized he didn't really step up - when I was studying for the MCAT, somehow he never once bothered to make dinner, when I desperately wanted to take a nap during a rare break he wouldn't be quiet.

I don't think it's inherently wrong to want different things. I'm a woman in my late 20s. I accepted that my biological clock is ticking and I accept that there may be people who want to start a family while I want to focus on my career. It doesn't make either option wrong, but you need to make sure you're on the same page. It's really hard when you have to go your separate ways not because you don't love each other, but because you're not compatible, but that's better than growing to resent each other on things neither of you can compromise on.
 
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Crayola227

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Also I did 4 years cross country long distance in med school - and then was going to have to do another 3 yrs for residency, because of careers. Then found out he was cheating last 2 years of med school.

Can't recommend giving up career for an SO (I was so grateful to be in residency and have my career when that relationship went bust, the saying "Work is there when love is gone,") but I also can't recommend giving up having a family for career (when you get MS and can't work anymore, you'll realize that career can go anytime and how important family is). So you have to find a balance on these fronts, it isn't always as easy as just going to med school anyway or as easy as putting off family til you're "free" as attending.
 
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No offense man but that is something you have to talk to your woman about. You're not going to find your answer here.

Nobody can tell you if it is worth it or not because only you understand your relationship.

As an aside, please don't get in the habit of asking for relationship advice from others. That is mistake #1.
Well, I've already gained some valuable insight from some of these comments. Also, it's always nice to hear other people's experiences, especially when they're similar to your own.

Of course, never take someone's input 100% seriously when it comes to a relationship. But perspective is valuable and I appreciate all of it. Dismissing all of it and saying it's automatically irrelevant to your life is a little extreme. Thanks for your comment.
 
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There is no such thing as a white picket fence life. My husband did many years of residency and fellowship and we had 3 of our 5 children during training. He is 20 years out of training and is still too busy to be the tv dad husband and father. That doesn’t mean we don’t have a good life together.
 
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Nugester

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There are people that enter with kids or have kids during school. It matters with schedules and sticking to them.
 
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Um, being in your 30s and putting off kids for another 10 years? Totally unreasonable plan if it really matters to you to have your own genetic children. Great plan if you want to go down the infertility route. At some point you have to pursue both family or career or risk only ending up with career.

I'm mid 30s and miscarrying my first pregnancy of twins - and both situations (miscarriage and twins) can absolutely be attributed to age. And we were lucky our fertility seems otherwise intact as it took 3 mos trying. Jury is still out what ovarian reserve does this year as we try again. At some point it craps out on you and you become infertile.

1 in 4 women is infertile at age 30 (1 year of failing by definition) and it keeps going up as you go. Maternal fetal medicine told me you still have time until you get to 37 or 38 but that's really when the luck starts running out, but still. I know so many couples dealing with infertility in their 30s. There are infertility success stories but it's easy not to appreciate the cost both in terms of stress, time, money, and just the physical gruel of treatments. We take male fertility with age for granted but it is also affected and higher incidence of health issues in babies to older fathers. And don't assume medical intervention can always overcome infertility.

The time to start trying for a family if that's really important to you, is 30s, unequivocally.
I already have kids so to my younger females please freeze your eggs, you live in America, it is another option when you are all done with Med school, that way you can have both worlds at your own pace.
 

Crayola227

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I already have kids so to my younger females please freeze your eggs, you live in America, it is another option when you are all done with Med school, that way you can have both worlds at your own pace.
How old are you? How many parents of young kids in their 40s do you know? It still might not be best to put it off that long. I know a pair of parents that are 50 with a 10 yr old. It's exhausting. Being an attending can be exhausting.

Egg freezing is a great back up especially if chemo comes into play, it's still not a great primary plan for reproduction for a lot of reasons.
 

Crayola227

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Not a silver bullet. Time consuming, expensive, and high rates of failure with implantation.

I know a lot of women who have undergone egg harvesting, it's grueling and some have had complications.

Again, it's best to try to plan around your natural fertility if you're able. Our bodies start fraying at the edges around 30s, that's science. We're not really meant to hold together well past that age, let alone reproduce. You hear about dudes in their 60s fathering kids, but I also hear about them dying and leaving teens behind. Any teen that ever lost a parent can tell you how hard that is.

Don't take for granted your health and career going where you want, and having the money to do all this if you put off family too long. Get started by your mid-30s. Ask anyone who didn't if they could have done it sooner if they would, after going through infertility treatment and young kids in their 40s. Planning in your 20s or 30s to push it to your 40s is just dumb all around.

Even if you don't have any issues with frozen eggs, pregnancy in your 40s is rougher even if it all goes well, and serious risks and complications go up by virtue of age. The female body is really built to birth better before then.
 
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Not a silver bullet. Time consuming, expensive, and high rates of failure with implantation.

I know a lot of women who have undergone egg harvesting, it's grueling and some have had complications.

Again, it's best to try to plan around your natural fertility if you're able. Our bodies start fraying at the edges around 30s, that's science. We're not really meant to hold together well past that age, let alone reproduce. You hear about dudes in their 60s fathering kids, but I also hear about them dying and leaving teens behind. Any teen that ever lost a parent can tell you how hard that is.

Don't take for granted your health and career going where you want, and having the money to do all this if you put off family too long. Get started by your mid-30s. Ask anyone who didn't if they could have done it sooner if they would, after going through infertility treatment and young kids in their 40s. Planning in your 20s or 30s to push it to your 40s is just dumb all around.

Even if you don't have any issues with frozen eggs, pregnancy in your 40s is rougher even if it all goes well, and serious risks and complications go up by virtue of age. The female body is really built to birth better before then.

The more I am getting older, the more I have to think about this issue but the reality is that life is just making more people postpone these events.

I don't think anyone chooses to get married later or have children later however circumstances might only allow for these events to happen at that time.

I blame our society on this. Women aren't marrying men who are not stable and more men are playing the field until much later now. I think if values changed, so would this issue.

I agree that having kids later and not being able to keep up with them while they are still young or young adults is very unfortunate.
 
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chs

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Apologies if this is not relevant to the thread (will delete if asked to).

I've been in a long-term relationship with a special someone that I'm intending on marrying. We're ~30 years old.

However, the non-trad medical journey is long and tough. My SO has expressed doubts about whether or not she's willing to postpone the house, kids, and white picket fence for at least another decade until med school + residency wraps up.

For the people who were in serious relationships and decided to go down the non-trad path, how did it play out for you? Do you regret it or not regret it? What would you have done differently and what would you have warned your previous self?

As for any doctors on this thread, is medicine worth putting a great relationship at risk/strain? Which would you (or have) prioritize more? Why?

Note: Obviously, everyone's answers will be personal and ultimately it is up to me to decide. But it would be comforting to hear people's wisdom on this topic, especially from non trads who have been through this before :)
Do you want me to be brutally honest? Someone who wants kids, house, white picket fence and is 30 should dump your ass immediately if you have not even yet begun medical school. If you really loved her, you would point out that she could either have you or she could have a decent chance at the kids, house and white picket fence.
Your future wife will have these things when you are about 50 (and she is 30). Your current girlfriend will have these things if you are wise enough to let her go so she can get married to a fella in his 30s who is already making his way in the world next year.
No guarantees for the future with others for either of you, but I seriously doubt you will be together and happy by the time you are starting residency.
And if you are doing any kind of competitive residency, it will certainly kill off any relationship (including many actual marriages).
If you didn’t want true honesty, sorry, ignore this post.
Folks who married and had kids out of college and knew they were going into medicine are on a totally path. But even that divorce rate is high, especially in residency.
I was in a very competitive surgical subspecialty, tend to be cynical and was 30 when I started med school. Not a marriage and kids person. Fortunately, already had house, long relationship, dog-as-surrogate-for-child experience prior to med school so just took a deep breath and swam underwater, pretty much committed to medicine and acting like a 24 yo with just light casual relationships, from about 3rd yr med school til 3rd yr residency. YMMV
Tell her the truth and set her free.
PS very happily married at 46 with no kids. It helps to know what you and everyone else truly wants. Set a course and understand that you get things by giving up other things.
 
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8YearsLate

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Um, being in your 30s and putting off kids for another 10 years? Totally unreasonable plan if it really matters to you to have your own genetic children. Great plan if you want to go down the infertility route. At some point you have to pursue both family or career or risk only ending up with career.

I'm mid 30s and miscarrying my first pregnancy of twins - and both situations (miscarriage and twins) can absolutely be attributed to age. And we were lucky our fertility seems otherwise intact as it took 3 mos trying. Jury is still out what ovarian reserve does this year as we try again. At some point it craps out on you and you become infertile.

1 in 4 women is infertile at age 30 (1 year of failing by definition) and it keeps going up as you go. Maternal fetal medicine told me you still have time until you get to 37 or 38 but that's really when the luck starts running out, but still. I know so many couples dealing with infertility in their 30s. There are infertility success stories but it's easy not to appreciate the cost both in terms of stress, time, money, and just the physical gruel of treatments. We take male fertility with age for granted but it is also affected and higher incidence of health issues in babies to older fathers. And don't assume medical intervention can always overcome infertility.

The time to start trying for a family if that's really important to you, is 30s, unequivocally.
Wow, takes courage to say this. Both of my sisters and my best friend have been misled into thinking they can put off a family until their late 30's and I've gently tried to tell them this is taking a big gamble. My eldest sister waited until 35 after being on BC for 23 years and almost died dealing with preeclampsia. Her health has never been the same and her daughter was born premature and a lot of health issues. That's just an n=1 example, but the facts are out there about advanced maternal (and paternal) age. In fact, I think they've linked advanced paternal age with Autism moreso than advanced maternal age.

Wishing you healing, peace, and the family of your dreams, Crayola.
And OP - like others said - lots of people start families during med school/residency. Good luck!
 
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deleted1085158

Wow, takes courage to say this. Both of my sisters and my best friend have been misled into thinking they can put off a family until their late 30's and I've gently tried to tell them this is taking a big gamble. My eldest sister waited until 35 after being on BC for 23 years and almost died dealing with preeclampsia. Her health has never been the same and her daughter was born premature and a lot of health issues. That's just an n=1 example, but the facts are out there about advanced maternal (and paternal) age. In fact, I think they've linked advanced paternal age with Autism moreso than advanced maternal age.

Wishing you healing, peace, and the family of your dreams, Crayola.
And OP - like others said - lots of people start families during med school/residency. Good luck!
I don't think they were "misled" because there are still plenty of people who have children even at 40 who are as healthy as anyone else--my niece's mother is 41 and they are planning for another.

The point I was making earlier was decisions like medical school at a later age force people to delay their life which I don't think anybody wants to do but the people who do go ahead with the decision to start a life or a family later than others can certainly still do it if they choose to.

It's a very personal decision in the end.
 
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8YearsLate

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I don't think they were "misled" because there are still plenty of people who have children even at 40 who are as healthy as anyone else--my niece's mother is 41 and they are planning for another.

The point I was making earlier was decisions like medical school at a later age force people to delay their life which I don't think anybody wants to do but the people who do go ahead with the decision to start a life or a family later than others can certainly still do it if they choose to.

It's a very personal decision in the end.
"One-fourth of doctoral students overestimated a woman’s ability to become pregnant between 35 and 40 years of age, and about half had overly optimistic perceptions of the chances to have a baby by means of IVF." -Source

"About one-third of couples in which the woman is older than 35 years have fertility problems. Aging not only decreases a woman’s chances of having a baby, but also increases her chances of miscarriage and of having a child with a genetic abnormality." & "Although advanced age plays a much more important role in predicting female infertility, couples in which the male partner is 40 years old or older are more likely to report difficulty conceiving." -Source

The CDC says you have a higher chance of contracting COVID at advanced age, COPD if you smoke, and fertility problems past 40. Not my opinion, just the facts. People deserve the facts, otherwise they are being misled by anecdotal evidence. That was my only point. I respect your point entirely and agree that it is 100% a personal choice at the end of the day.
 
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Crayola227

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I agree as a society we are creating cultural norms about putting off family until later and later, but what I think people fail to appreciate are the real risks. We are making infertility a more commonplace problem. But being "common" doesn't make it less problematic.

You might take for granted being able to get pregnant/impregnate your partner in your 20s, because the rates are so freaking high for couples. But the fact is that starts changing after 30, and depending how far forward you go there are going to be couples that want kids that get none. Or it will cost a huge amount in terms of many things.

I also know of many marriages ruined by the fertility struggle, and I'm talking about couples that actually succeeded in having kids! I could go into all the reasons it's a drain on the relationship even when they end up beating infertility.

It's fine to do, but people very clearly need to understand that putting off your first pregnancy to 40 might very well mean not having a live birth.

I also just read that 45% of pregnancies after age 40 lead to miscarriage. And you can lose significant time in a miscarriage - for me it's going to be a minimum of 4-5 months with this early miscarriage factoring in recovery, and depending on the cause of miscarriage, it could be up to a year. And a year in your 40s can mean not getting pregnant again.

With the rates what they are, the closer to 40, and especially after 40 you wait, the more you are choosing a pathway that will include infertility treatments, possible miscarriages, and possibly total failure to have kids.

That's fine. It's not super important to some people. But if it is, and you wait to 40, you're not giving yourself good odds.
 
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"One-fourth of doctoral students overestimated a woman’s ability to become pregnant between 35 and 40 years of age, and about half had overly optimistic perceptions of the chances to have a baby by means of IVF." -Source

"About one-third of couples in which the woman is older than 35 years have fertility problems. Aging not only decreases a woman’s chances of having a baby, but also increases her chances of miscarriage and of having a child with a genetic abnormality." & "Although advanced age plays a much more important role in predicting female infertility, couples in which the male partner is 40 years old or older are more likely to report difficulty conceiving." -Source

The CDC says you have a higher chance of contracting COVID at advanced age, COPD if you smoke, and fertility problems past 40. Not my opinion, just the facts. People deserve the facts, otherwise they are being misled by anecdotal evidence. That was my only point. I respect your point entirely and agree that it is 100% a personal choice at the end of the day.
Not arguing with that. As someone who wants to practice medicine in the future, I also agree with that and I would not take the issue lightly myself considering I am aware of the statistics.

I think even non-medical people are aware of all the risks and the odds but starting a family is one of those issues where the risk always goes beyond science. I think older couples are willing to take that risk just to have a kid because something like that can change your life for the good forever. I don't think every 40-something is trying to conceive but for those that have put their life on hold, they have no choice but to start later in spite of the added risk. Honestly, I will be in that boat as well.

I want to share a very ironic story. We have a close family friend and she was an only child until she was around 12. Her parents who were both well into their 40's, with the father (a physician) nearing 50, had another healthy child. Now this family friend got married in her early 20's and had two children of her own before 30 and she has an autistic child. I mean even science can't always predict how this stuff works.
 
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samc

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Crayola227 is 100% right! Try to have kids the traditional way, the earlier the better!

But I'm just putting it out there into the universe for any younger female medical types that might be listening...at 43 I do NOT regret not having children, but I DO regret not having frozen eggs or embryos, especially embryos, just to have preserved the "right" to have children a few years longer, if you know what I mean. Look into it NOW, at age 27, not 37, independently of whether or not you have a partner. This doesn't have to involve your partner at all.

I had a number of branch points at which I could have decided to have kids, including via adoption: ages 27, 33, 34, and 38, to be precise. Each time I introspected and decided it wasn't for me. But still, I wouldn't mind having some embryos floating around somewhere. Just a thought.
 
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Crayola227 is 100% right! Try to have kids the traditional way, the earlier the better!

But I'm just putting it out there into the universe for any younger female medical types that might be listening...at 43 I do NOT regret not having children, but I DO regret not having frozen eggs or embryos, especially embryos, just to have preserved the "right" to have children a few years longer, if you know what I mean. Look into it NOW, at age 27, not 37, independently of whether or not you have a partner. This doesn't have to involve your partner at all.

I had a number of branch points at which I could have decided to have kids, including via adoption: ages 27, 33, 34, and 38, to be precise. Each time I introspected and decided it wasn't for me. But still, I wouldn't mind having some embryos floating around somewhere. Just a thought.
This is one of those issues where you can't just say "don't do it."

It's not like telling someone to go get a COVID vaccine. The risks/benefits are not the same.
 
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crazyotter,

what did you decide to do?
Not sure anymore. Essentially debating in my head between having a more fulfilling career than my current one (tech/programming) or having a family life with probably the only girl that I want to actually have a family with (out of all my past SO's, exes, etc.).

I acknowledge a lot of what other people in this thread have said --- that it's not fair to pursue med but also force my SO to postpone her own life plans. So it seems the decision is so extreme it'll have to be one or the other. I need to hike up a mountain and stare at a sunset or something.
 
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Crayola227

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Is it really impossible that you would go to med school and start a family at the same time? Lots of students do this.

But it is hard and a sacrifice, don't get to spend as much time with the kids.

Consider that medicine isn't as rewarding as it might seem. If you don't really care about people, it's all a big bother. If you do, the way our current healthcare system will constantly frustate care will be upsetting.
 
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LizLemongrab

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It sounds like y'all want to wait for the "right time" to have kids if you're thinking about putting it off until after completing training. I think y'all need to rank your priorities (want vs need?), list key expectations for standard of living (non-negotiable items), and see what lines up. If staying together is at the top of both of your lists, it is possible to have children while in school with only one partner working. Money, time, and energy will be tight. If a modest lifestyle is acceptable for that long, it isn't all that bad. I had mine in undergrad, got through dental school with my partner stationed at a base on the other side of the country for a year and a half, went through a year of residency, my partner is now working on his doctorate, and I'm about to go back into residency for two years.

Seeing as I have completed most of my training, I wouldn't do things all that differently. The only thing I wish I found earlier was the serenity of accepting the idea that happiness can be found in living life without strong attachment to expectations. I have a close and relatively healthy relationship with my kid, my spouse has been doing well in graduate school, we love our apartment and the life we have made with our friends, I like what I do, and there isn't much more I could ask for. We've come a long way from me coming home from an 8am-8pm class and clinic day to both my spouse and child asking me what is for dinner at 8:30pm on a weeknight even though both of them have been home since 4:30pm and bedtime was supposed to be 9pm so she wouldn't wake up super cranky the next day. I used to pack his lunch when I was in school and he worked. Now, he packs my lunch especially since his schooling is largely online from home.

100% this though. You sometimes see people at their worst rather than their normal or best. In all cases though, the way insurances tend to jerk patients around and compensate us is often insulting. It's also key to remember that life isn't fair, can't please everyone, and in trying to please everyone you often screw yourself over the most.
Consider that medicine isn't as rewarding as it might seem. If you don't really care about people, it's all a big bother. If you do, the way our current healthcare system will constantly frustrate care will be upsetting.
 
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MissRibeye

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I also wonder how much of the lack of fertility in late thirties these days has more to do with the current horrific nutrition and lifestyle choices people are making now; For example, far more overweight folks these days than before, and that is strongly linked to infertility from both the male and female side. There is also a lot more stress in life, tens of thousands of more chemicals in all of our products and environment, and far less nutritious food to eat (processed and unprocessed).

If you really take care of your health, stress, sleep, etc AND have good genes (like myself, with most women on both sides having several healthy kids well into their 40's) you still have a good shot late thirties, early forties. But yeah, you shouldn't count on it. You should feel okay with the possibility that it won't happen for you and/or you can adopt.
 
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DocJanItor

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I also wonder how much of the lack of fertility in late thirties these days has more to do with the current horrific nutrition and lifestyle choices people are making now; For example, far more overweight folks these days than before, and that is strongly linked to infertility from both the male and female side. There is also a lot more stress in life, tens of thousands of more chemicals in all of our products and environment, and far less nutritious food to eat (processed and unprocessed).

If you really take care of your health, stress, sleep, etc AND have good genes (like myself, with most women on both sides having several healthy kids well into their 40's) you still have a good shot late thirties, early forties. But yeah, you shouldn't count on it. You should feel okay with the possibility that it won't happen for you and/or you can adopt.
As opposed to back in the day when people ate food that was months old and almost everyone had a parasite. And the childhood and maternal mortality rate was through the roof. Women also spent more time pregnant and breastfeeding so less time menstruating, thus preserving eggs.
 
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