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Rotating internship in layman's terms plz!

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by realruby2000, Nov 23, 2001.

  1. realruby2000

    realruby2000 Senior Member
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    I've searched the threads about this topic and am still somewhat confused. What exactly happens after the fourth year of med school when ur at an osteopathic med school? Don't you jump straight into a residency? What exactly is the required intership, and why do some say that "it counts to your first year of residency" while others say "it doesnt"? Do you HAVE to go through an internship before your residency? Doesn't this put you a year behind your allopathic counterparts? and if the internship does count as ur first year of residency, does that mean that you join a program as a second year resident? (can you even do that?) Also, are you paid during your internship?

    layman's terms plz!
    thanks
     
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  3. Billie

    Billie An Oldie but a Goodie...
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    There are 5 states (though I have now heard there is only four but I don't know which state has changed) that require a DO to have done a rotating internship to be a licensed physician in that state. Some even say that there are ways around that requirement and that if you have not done the internship, you can still be licensed. I don't know all the ins and outs of that method and I don't want have to worry about it. My state (WV) is one of those that require an internship, and since I intend to return home to practice in rural areas, I will be participating in the internship program. No, you do not have to do an internship as many of my classmates that are in other states will be going straight to an allopathic residency program.

    For some programs in some places, that internship year can count as your first year of residency, and I have been to allopathic programs that call anyone (DO or MD) in their first post-grad year as "Interns" and yes, of course you get paid.
     
  4. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Membership Revoked
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    West Virginia
    Florida
    Pennsylvania
    Ohio
    Michigan


    These states require the internship in order to be licensed. Also, you need to complete the internship in order to be eligible for AOA Residencies. There is also a claus about having to complete the internship if you want to be a Director of an AOA internship or residency in the future.
     
  5. Ray

    Ray Member
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    I believe this is how the current situation came about:
    Back in the day, completing a one year rotating internship was required prior to residency for both ACGME and AOA for both MD and DO students. That first year was called the "internship" and you were an "intern" not a "resident" yet. Then in the '70s MD residencies began dropping the requirement of a rotating intership in order to streamline post-grad education. Now they are not required for MD residencies but are available. So now days the term "intern" means first-year resident, so it is basically an obsolete term for someone doing an MD residency. However, most AOA residencies still require a rotating internship year. These are true internships - like what MD's did pre-'80s. So yeah, you do lose a year to your MD counterparts (if you go AOA). This is a big complaint among many DO students right now (ie, "Isn't the AOA trying to ATTRACT students to their residencies?").
    There is another option for certain specialties (IM, EM,...) called "fast track" internships which are internship specializations that are sometimes applied to your residency years. I don't know a lot about them except they are competitive. This seems to me to be the same thing that happened with MD residencies 30 years ago. I think that over the years we will see certain specialties fast tracked across the board.
    As stated above, if you want to skip the whole internship thing, do an MD residency. Unless of course you wish to practice in one of the five states above that have it written in state AOA laws that to be board certified you must complete an AOA internship. You can then do an MD or AOA residency. Sucks to live in those states!
     
  6. Ray

    Ray Member
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    I'm not sure if you already know this but during a rotating internship, DO or MD, you do say 8 weeks of surgery, 8 weeks of IM,6 weeks ER, etc. So basically it is a paid 5th year of medical school with a little more or the same amount of responsibility depending on the site you go to, hence, all the complaints:

    internship year=$36000,
    first year in practice = a lot more than $36000
     
  7. Boomer

    Boomer Supreme Sooner Member
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  8. Mr. happy clown guy

    Mr. happy clown guy Senior Member
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    Definitely NOT ohio.
     
  9. realruby2000

    realruby2000 Senior Member
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    so are programs that count the 1st rotating internship as a PGY-1 rare? Cuz i heard that there are very few programs that will let you enter in as a PGY-2

    thanks
     
  10. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Membership Revoked
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    Oklahoma...that's what I meant.

    Thanks for the pick-up!
     
  11. pags

    pags Senior Member
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    I just heard today from an osteopathic program director that New York might be the 6th state to impliment mandatory osteopathic internship for DO licensure in the near future.
     
  12. realruby2000

    realruby2000 Senior Member
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  13. pags

    pags Senior Member
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    Something to do with the fact that NY state government give lots of money to medical schools and residencies, including osteopathic, and most NY students look elsewhere to do their residencies, practice, etc... I guess by making osteopaths do their internship here in NY, they are more likely to practice in NY. This justifies the gov't medical school/residency spending on home grown doctors. None of this makes much sense to me, but neither does most government, and I was half-ass listening to this program director anyway. I hope she's not reading this.
     
  14. Ray

    Ray Member
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    Here's the correct terminology:

    "Internship Definitions

    Specialty Track Internship- may reduce the total number of years of postdoctoral training. Such programs can only be offered by institutions with existing AOA-approved osteopathic residencies in these specialties.

    Special Emphasis - focus of the internship is within a particular specialty, but DOES NOT reduce the toal number of years of postdoctoral training."

    This is from <a href="http://opportunities.aoa-net.org/Opportunities/internships/internship.asp" target="_blank">http://opportunities.aoa-net.org/Opportunities/internships/internship.asp</a>
    So specialty track is first year residency, while special emphasis is like senior year in school with electives in your specialty of interest.
    To find out which hospitals have specialty track in your area, go to the link above (just to get a list-they don't tell you) and check out the hospital's website. Or you can get a copy of a school's rotation site manual from the clinical affairs office. I got all my information off KCOM's, but I think I threw it away.
    It's a pain in the ass since the AOA website doesn't list tracking internships they just double post under "internships" and "residencies".
     
  15. JS-UNMC

    JS-UNMC Senior Member
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    Here is the largest problem that I see with the D.O. rotating intern year... If you go the DO route for surgery, you lose an entire year of general surgery training doing this intern year (1year internship then 4 years gen surg). Whereas our MD counterparts match directly into general surg and do five full years of gen surg training. May not mean much to those whom aren't interested in surg, but it means a lot to those who enter the fireld and realize that they lose out on an entire year of training.
     
  16. DO/MBA

    DO/MBA Member
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    Let me try to clarify jsdmu's post. Go to that web site two posts above me. Then go to the listing sites for residencies. You will see that all residencies start at year two. (ie after internship) Most last the same length as allopathic residencies. The guy across the hall in my complex is an ortho resident. He did the internship and is now completing his third year of residency. He only has one more year to go. This totals 5 years for DO orthopaedics. The same length of time as allopathic ortho. You'll find on that site that most of the other sites are the same. Bottom line you don't lose a year. ;)
     
  17. JS-UNMC

    JS-UNMC Senior Member
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    You are correct in saying that the total number of years is the same. However, the DO has to spend the first year doing an internship... not doing surgery. That is where you lose the year of training. Both are 5 years. however, one is five years of surgery and the other is one year of internship and four years of surgery.
     
  18. Gotrob

    Gotrob Member
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    Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding was that most DO's who are going into surgery are accepted to an internship where their surgery residency takes place. From my research, those internships, although broad in nature, will tend to focus on preparing the resident for the upcoming residency.

    I was also under the impression that the first year of MD surgical residency was also broad in nature, and that very little of actual "surgery" is done.

    Because of this, I have read that the two are comparable. Can anyone confirm or discredit this?
     
  19. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Membership Revoked
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    For what its worth, I have heard the same thing.
     

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