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[c99]

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[M&L]

Hi all, I am in a very fortunate position to have been accepted to multiple schools and would appreciate insight from some of y'all. The most competitive specialty I'm really interested in is urology. Other interested specialties are IM, neurology, PM&R. I am from the south so am hoping to match to a big city in the south but would also be interested in going to Cali or DC.

All of these schools are far from home and support. Rush has the highest COL but also the lowest tuition. I am still waiting to hear back from financial aid so am just considering these schools to all be about the same price.

Rush
Pros
- Location in Chicago
- P/F (but ranked)
- Kept anatomy lab open and still provided clinical experiences during Covid - prioritized student learning
- Students seemed happy - pre-interview social helped show the vibe of the school
- Best clinical education (opportunity to rotate at its top 20 hospital)
- 8-12 hours/week of mandatory time

Cons
- High COL
- Maybe older facilities? Didn't have a good campus tour to really see
- Match list seems weaker than I would have thought
- Front-loaded blocks which could be overwhelming as a flipped classroom
- In-house exams

Neutral
- Flipped classroom - I've never had a flipped classroom before but it seems like that's what most people in med school already do anyways
- Cased based curriculum

Loyola
Pros
- Near Chicago
- No attendance required for lectures?
- Newer facilities (and nice gym)
- P/F, not sure if ranked
- Strong 2020 match list but lists for previous years not available (wondering if 2020 was an outlier or the norm)
- Most diverse student body
- Global health opportunities

Cons
- Wasn't able to learn much about the school on interview day
- Takes ~1 hr to get to downtown Chicago on public transportation
- Virtual anatomy during Covid - poor prioritization of students?

Neutral
- Traditional lectures but probably wouldn't attend them consistently so effectively flipped classroom anyways? Unless attendance is required

Creighton (Phoenix)
Pros
- Opportunity to be a trailblazer in Phoenix
- Can do research with ASU, Barrow, Mayo
- New building
- Students and faculty seemed enthusiastic and happy
- Lots of ortho matches last year, maybe an indicator of students being competitive?

Cons
- H/P/F (top 10% honors)
- Least diverse student body
- 4-8 hours/day of mandatory stuff
- Little to no information available for Phoenix campus, no established groups or organizations

Neutral
- ASU faculty will help teach on the Phoenix campus
- No M2s on campus

EVMS
Pros
- Location near the beach and 3 hour drive from SO, 5 hour drive from home
- Offer service learning tracks
- Standardized patients and ultrasound curriculum
- P/F?
- All exams are on Fridays and NBME style exams

Cons
- Limited research opportunities in addition to being the lowest ranked of all the schools
- No good gym on campus
- Virtual patient/family throughout first 2 years, seems like bloat

Also, would appreciate any thoughts from @Talldoctor96 and @M&L for Loyola and EVMS respectively since I think they are both great schools.

EVMS: There IS a new gym on campus in the new building. Also - there are global health initiative here too .

What do you mean by “virtual pt/family throughout first 2 years”? I have no idea what you are talking about. Just to clarify for whoever is reading - there are special assignments relating to choice of insurance , ethical questions, etc, where you are given a fake family and need to decide what to do . But this has NOTHING to do with clinical skills - for those we can real standardized patients , that we touch/examine/talk to for the whole duration of preclinical curriculum . The way OP described EVMS is honestly upsetting me because it makes us look ridiculous and is simply not true at ALL

there are a LOT of research opportunities, especially in urology - we have NIH database of samples here in Norfolk

 

[M&L]

Other EVMS pluses - you can retake exams no big deal, free uworld, stand alone peds hospital, you can bike everywhere - don’t have to have a car, free books PDFs, free sketchy and pathoma . Free tutoring .

 

[c99]

EVMS: There IS a new gym on campus in the new building. Also - there are global health initiative here too .

What do you mean by “virtual pt/family throughout first 2 years”? I have no idea what you are talking about. Just to clarify for whoever is reading - there are special assignments relating to choice of insurance , ethical questions, etc, where you are given a fake family and need to decide what to do . But this has NOTHING to do with clinical skills - for those we can real standardized patients , that we touch/examine/talk to for the whole duration of preclinical curriculum . The way OP described EVMS is honestly upsetting me because it makes us look ridiculous and is simply not true at ALL

there are a LOT of research opportunities, especially in urology - we have NIH database of samples here in Norfolk

I think you misread because I never said the virtual family was for clinical skills and actually wrote that standardized patients as a pro for the school so clearly I knew SPs are how clinical skills are taught. I wasn't trying to misrepresent the school or make it look "ridiculous"

Other EVMS pluses - you can retake exams no big deal, free uworld, stand alone peds hospital, you can bike everywhere - don’t have to have a car, free books PDFs, free sketchy and pathoma . Free tutoring .

I didn't know that about retaking exams so thank you for sharing, I hadn't considered that before

 

[M&L]

I think you misread because I never said the virtual family was for clinical skills and actually wrote that standardized patients as a pro for the school so clearly I knew SPs are how clinical skills are taught. I wasn't trying to misrepresent the school or make it look "ridiculous"



I didn't know that about retaking exams so thank you for sharing, I hadn't considered that before

Ok , that’s fine . Sorry for misunderstanding.
I recommend for you to find out what’s the exam retake policy in other schools - I have friends in schools with a less lenient policies and they are losing their minds . It just makes your life so much more stressful !!!!!!

 

[M&L]

I would argue that exsm retake policy along with mandatory /optional attendance and pass/fail should be your top three considerations. These are the things that can literally make your medical school experience a living hell or smooth ride .

 

[Talldoctor96]

Loyola: will give u my response to the pros and cons.

Agree with your pros, amazing gym, amazing campus, near Chicago.... I will say it’s about a 20 min drive to down town. Not sure where ur getting the hour on public transportation but honestly most people have cars anyway.

loyola always matches well- the lack of transparency was a relic of an old administration. Agree that it looks sus, but it was more administrative than trying to hide something. I’ve looked at the match lists and they’re very similar to what you’ve seen. Reality is, you can match well from any of these schools.

I DMed

 

[deleted1094730]

Exam retake policy is huge. Didn't know about this before but seems like exam retake policy + P/F is too good to pass up and would be much better for your medical education

 

[c99]

I would argue that exsm retake policy along with mandatory /optional attendance and pass/fail should be your top three considerations. These are the things that can literally make your medical school experience a living hell or smooth ride .

I will def look into exam retake policies for each school, thanks for pointing it out and sharing how important it has been for you

Loyola: will give u my response to the pros and cons.

Agree with your pros, amazing gym, amazing campus, near Chicago.... I will say it’s about a 20 min drive to down town. Not sure where ur getting the hour on public transportation but honestly most people have cars anyway.

loyola always matches well- the lack of transparency was a relic of an old administration. Agree that it looks sus, but it was more administrative than trying to hide something. I’ve looked at the match lists and they’re very similar to what you’ve seen. Reality is, you can match well from any of these schools.

I DMed

Thanks for your input, can you share what Loyola's exam retake policy is?

 

[Talldoctor96]

I will def look into exam retake policies for each school, thanks for pointing it out and sharing how important it has been for you


Thanks for your input, can you share what Loyola's exam retake policy is?

Loyola exam averages are in the mid to high 80s. Exams are tough but fair. Retaking an exam has never been a thought crossed my mind. So far the administration has shared with us that not a single student has failed a class so far this year.

I disagree that "exam retaking" would be a huge factor for choosing a school. As someone that applied 2x to medical school and is now 8/10 through his first year I can promise you the idea of retaking an exam did not come up a single time on 10 interviews I did and had never crossed my mind for a second.

Loyolas examinations are not designed for people to fail, and they do everything they can to support those who are struggling. Our last exam average for Physiology was an 89 percent.

 

[pink_lily09]

Loyola exam averages are in the mid to high 80s. Exams are tough but fair. Retaking an exam has never been a thought crossed my mind. So far the administration has shared with us that not a single student has failed a class so far this year.

I disagree that "exam retaking" would be a huge factor for choosing a school. As someone that applied 2x to medical school and is now 8/10 through his first year I can promise you the idea of retaking an exam did not come up a single time on 10 interviews I did and had never crossed my mind for a second.

Loyolas examinations are not designed for people to fail, and they do everything they can to support those who are struggling. Our last exam average for Physiology was an 89 percent.

I recently went to a virtual admissions events for Loyola and they had a panel with current students. The students mentioned that they did have a group of classmates that failed biochemistry and had to do a remediation for it. So are you sure that not a single student has failed a class this year? You seem a little but too biased about Loyola on every thread so please make sure you don't impose your biases too much when people have to make decisions

 

[pink_lily09]

Flexibility in academic policies such as retaking exams shouldn't be the only reason to choose a school but should definitely be considered when making the decision. If you have the options for more lenient grading without internal ranking then why not take that into account?

 

[Talldoctor96]

I recently went to a virtual admissions events for Loyola and they had a panel with current students. The students mentioned that they did have a group of classmates that failed biochemistry and had to do a remediation for it. So are you sure that not a single student has failed a class this year? You seem a little but too biased about Loyola on every thread so please make sure you don't impose your biases too much when people have to make decisions

I do those panels! Im confused, am I not supposed to be biased for the school I attend? I also say that I am literally biased. lol How is me sharing my experiences a bias isn't that the literal whole point of these?

IF you would like to DM, I can forward you the emails from our MCBG (biochem) and anatomy course directors when they shared that no one failed their classes.

If you would like me to list some cons of loyola I would be happy to: private school so very expensive, haven't had a single in persona activity this year yet, Lecture based traditional curriculum.... not organ system based, not in an urban chicago setting... definitely more suburban. Lower than expected ranking on USNWR. We match well, but not like the higher ranked MD schools and many people stay regionally in midwest etc. Its true pass fail but there is an internal ranking (I view as positive but def can be a negative. )

 

[Talldoctor96]

Flexibility in academic policies such as retaking exams shouldn't be the only reason to choose a school but should definitely be considered when making the decision. If you have the options for more lenient grading without internal ranking then why not take that into account?

Definitely agree I was just sharing my opinion that I don't think it should be a "top three reason" its just my opinion

 

[SpartanDawg_4]

I do those panels! Im confused, am I not supposed to be biased for the school I attend? I also say that I am literally biased. lol How is me sharing my experiences a bias isn't that the literal whole point of these?

IF you would like to DM, I can forward you the emails from our MCBG (biochem) and anatomy course directors when they shared that no one failed their classes.

If you would like me to list some cons of loyola I would be happy to: private school so very expensive, haven't had a single in persona activity this year yet, Lecture based traditional curriculum.... not organ system based, not in an urban chicago setting... definitely more suburban. Lower than expected ranking on USNWR. We match well, but not like the higher ranked MD schools and many people stay regionally in midwest etc. Its true pass fail but there is an internal ranking (I view as positive but def can be a negative. )

What are the pros/cons of an internal ranking in your opinion? Accepted to Stritch and strongly considering, interested in Radiology
Also why is traditional (as opposed to organ based) a con?
Finally, I’ve heard Stritch is moving to 1.5 years for preclinical, what is your opinion on that change?

 

[Talldoctor96]

What are the pros/cons of an internal ranking in your opinion? Accepted to Stritch and strongly considering, interested in Radiology
Also why is traditional (as opposed to organ based) a con?
Finally, I’ve heard Stritch is moving to 1.5 years for preclinical, what is your opinion on that change?

1) cons: if you are bottom of the class I would imagine it wouldn’t look the best. Pros: if you do well which most of us do it will ONLY help us. I promise you none of us really ever think about it. The majority of it comes from the clinical clerkship years which isn’t that different than other school. It’s very low key. I plan to very much use it to my advantage in my deans letter.
2) I love the curriculum I do NOT think it’s a con. I was just saying I’d imagine there are people out there that would prefer an organs based curriculum.
3) sounds like a good change to me