izzygoer

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this was on the front page (print- page A1) of todays wall street journal. check out the map :xf:


" He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says. He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in.


California will form the nucleus of what he calls "The Californian Republic," and will be part of China or under Chinese influence. Texas will be the heart of "The Texas Republic," a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence. Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an "Atlantic America" that may join the European Union. Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls "The Central North American Republic." Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html
 
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Bertelman

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this was on the front page of todays wall street journal. check out the map :xf:


" He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says. He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in.


California will form the nucleus of what he calls "The Californian Republic," and will be part of China or under Chinese influence. Texas will be the heart of "The Texas Republic," a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence. Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an "Atlantic America" that may join the European Union. Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls "The Central North American Republic." Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html
That's the funniest **** I've read all week. Texas falling to Mexico.


pssst- it's already happened!
 

BubbleHead

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Someone should verify this intel with a known and trusted source. Does anyone have a book of Nostredamus' predictions? Or a Magic 8-Ball?
 
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While I think it would great for Canada to finally have a decent hockey team, The "Windsor" Red Wings, (plus the fact that I have a sock full of Canadian nickels I'd like to get rid of) I doubt that an over-populated China could handle our Mormon friends in Utah. Nor can I see the folks in Kentucky and West Virginia carrying a European "manbag" while riding a Vespa equipped with a gun rack.

It could be worth a trip to South Carolina for some good Mexican food though. If anyone has ever driven by "South of the Border" at the N.C./S.C. state line, you will have to agree with me that the founders of that ectopic place may prove to be visionaries.
 

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Do you think we'll still have to pay back our Student Loans??? This guy might be on to something here, let's give him a chance...
 

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I think the WSJ put this on their "most popular articles" list (NOT exactly FRONT page) because they found it funny that russia is having such a fun time stroking it's own dick with this "expert's" predictions...
 

izzygoer

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I think the WSJ put this on their "most popular articles" list (NOT exactly FRONT page) because they found it funny that russia is having such a fun time stroking it's own dick with this "expert's" predictions...


if you get the old school paper it is on the front page of today's print edition page A1
 

coldweatherblue

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you know those folk out in the woods who hang the Stars and Stripes out their windows and own enough weapons and ammunition to be able to supply their entire extended family during the post-Thanksgiving hunting trip?

I don't think our Russian friend has met many of these Americans.
 

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I didn't realize they had such a crack problem in Russia.
 

Bertelman

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you know those folk out in the woods who hang the Stars and Stripes out their windows and own enough weapons and ammunition to be able to supply their entire extended family during the post-Thanksgiving hunting trip?

I don't think our Russian friend has met many of these Americans.

Now you're talking about going all Red Dawn on their asses- I like it!
 

coprolalia

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Of course, what they don't tell you is that this was predicated on John McCain getting elected.

Now that Barrack Obama is our new president-elect, the world will fall into a new-age and millenium of peace, everyone will start loving each other, economic stability and prosperity will reign, and we'll all see our incomes rise at least 25% in the first six months along with the creation of millions of new jobs.

Also, every obese American will suddenly attain a BMI of <25, within weeks, and get better looking. Our children's IQ's and knowledge of math and science will rise exponentially, and the median scores on the SAT will shoot up 250 points. We will actually be so prosperous that Canada and Mexico will request to be annexed by us, and they will have their economies and GDP quintupled by the end of 2009.

In the beginning of 2010, Kim Jong-il, Vladimir Putin, and Mahmoud Ahmadenijad will beg for our advice on how to sort out their countries. They will willingly invite Barack Obama to help them "reorganize" their governments and, along with Western Europe, there will be formed one huge friendly coalition of world harmony that includes free trade, ability to move between borders without restriciton, and the end of economic hardship and deep rooted hatred among men and women. There will be a "new age" of hope and reason.

Oh, and everyone will get a puppy... and a kitty.

That's my prediction. Clearly, it is more valid than this Russian dude who has no idea what he's talking about. Now I'm going to go eat a steak.

-copro
 
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Every empire has died and every fiat currency has failed...

Anyway the avian flu will solve a lot of problems when it comes around.
 

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Of course, what they don't tell you is that this was predicated on John McCain getting elected.

Now that Barrack Obama is our new president-elect, the world will fall into a new-age and millenium of peace, everyone will start loving each other, economic stability and prosperity will reign, and we'll all see our incomes rise at least 25% in the first six months along with the creation of millions of new jobs.

Also, every obese American will suddenly attain a BMI of <25, within weeks, and get better looking. Our children's IQ's and knowledge of math and science will rise exponentially, and the median scores on the SAT will shoot up 250 points. We will actually be so prosperous that Canada and Mexico will request to be annexed by us, and they will have their economies and GDP quintupled by the end of 2009.

In the beginning of 2010, Kim Jong-il, Vladimir Putin, and Mahmoud Ahmadenijad will beg for our advice on how to sort out their countries. They will willingly invite Barack Obama to help them "reorganize" their governments and, along with Western Europe, there will be formed one huge friendly coalition of world harmony that includes free trade, ability to move between borders without restriciton, and the end of economic hardship and deep rooted hatred among men and women. There will be a "new age" of hope and reason.

Oh, and everyone will get a puppy... and a kitty.

That's my prediction. Clearly, it is more valid than this Russian dude who has no idea what he's talking about. Now I'm going to go eat a steak.

-copro
So, when Obama is President... We will have to pay back our student loans? But, if the country falls to the Reds, then we won't have to pay back our student loans? That is a tough one Comrade...
 
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a cup of water must poured into brain to the author .
 

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Actually, he is not the only one saying the US will split. Gerald Celente predicts the same thing. Look him up on youtube/google/wikipedia. His business is to make predictions and he has been successful for over a decade. I have been following him for a while and he seems to have a level head. I think they are up to something.
 

coprolalia

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Actually, he is not the only one saying the US will split. Gerald Celente predicts the same thing. Look him up on youtube/google/wikipedia. His business is to make predictions and he has been successful for over a decade. I have been following him for a while and he seems to have a level head. I think they are up to something.
Yeah, and they will also discover the cause of Morgellon's, that the moon landing was a hoax, and that JFK was killed by Johnson, who was trying to usurp power for the "Texas Mafia".

:laugh:

(You are too much, dude.)

-copro
 

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Actually, he is not the only one saying the US will split. Gerald Celente predicts the same thing. Look him up on youtube/google/wikipedia. His business is to make predictions and he has been successful for over a decade. I have been following him for a while and he seems to have a level head. I think they are up to something.
That crap on his Wiki page sounds like a load of bull.
 

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People, the U.S. IS NOT GOING TO SPLIT UP IN TWO YEARS... OR EVER!

This is some of the dumbest **** I've heard on this forum, and anyone who seriously entertains the idea that this is even a possibility needs to get their head checked.

-copro
 

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People, the U.S. IS NOT GOING TO SPLIT UP IN TWO YEARS... OR EVER!

This is some of the dumbest **** I've heard on this forum, and anyone who seriously entertains the idea that this is even a possibility needs to get their head checked.

-copro
Isn't that what they said about the Soviet Union?

No empire lasts forever. Check your history.
 

coprolalia

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Isn't that what they said about the Soviet Union?

No empire lasts forever. Check your history.
I know that you didn't just compare the Soviet Union of the late 1980's to the U.S. now... did you? If you did, you truly need to go back to high school government class.

-copro
 
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Isn't that what they said about the Soviet Union?

No empire lasts forever. Check your history.
Are the differences in regions of the U.S. are analogous to differences in republics of the Soviet Union?

Perhaps we should all read about the history of Georgia, Latvia, Ukraine, and Armenia. Each of these geographic areas has a population and culture going back more than a thousand years. Each has their own unique language. These are fundamental qualities that predispose a population to desire independence. Do areas of the USA share these qualities?

I can see clearly why the Ukraine would want to be independent from Russia, however it is a bit more difficult to understand the reasons Tennessee would want to be totally independent from Georgia, although it might make college football a little more interesting.
 

urge

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Are the differences in regions of the U.S. are analogous to differences in republics of the Soviet Union?

Perhaps we should all read about the history of Georgia, Latvia, Ukraine, and Armenia. Each of these geographic areas has a population and culture going back more than a thousand years. Each has their own unique language. These are fundamental qualities that predispose a population to desire independence. Do areas of the USA share these qualities?

I can see clearly why the Ukraine would want to be independent from Russia, however it is a bit more difficult to understand the reasons Tennessee would want to be totally independent from Georgia, although it might make college football a little more interesting.
I know that you didn't just compare the Soviet Union of the late 1980's to the U.S. now... did you? If you did, you truly need to go back to high school government class.

-copro
You guys are talking after the fact. My question was simple, however you both avoid it. I'll just remind you.

Isn't that what they said about the Soviet Union?
 

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You guys are talking after the fact. My question was simple, however you both avoid it. I'll just remind you.

Isn't that what they said about the Soviet Union?
NO! You are either forgetting history, or don't understand it very well.

The Soviet Union was a house of cards from the get-go. It was a totalitarian regime that ran on fear, intimidation, and suppression of such things as a free press. Furthermore, their entire economic system was based on a basic belief that competition is bad, and that shared work was the best way to accomplish human achievement. The system was entirely corrupt from the outset, including power that was concentrated among a very few power elite and hand-selected "loyalists" that ensured that they had all of their needs met while controlling the populus.

In order for you to say "Isn't that what they said about the Soviet Union?" and have it be anything more than a meaningless, throw-away statement, there has to be a parallel to our current state of affairs. There isn't any.

This would be like me saying, "I took care of a guy who died of cancer yesterday. No one thought he was going to die of cancer. Are you saying you're not going to die of cancer?" It's meaningless. It's a non-sequitir. There is no parallel. Your "question" is as pointless as it is vapid.

-copro
 

coldweatherblue

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You guys are talking after the fact. My question was simple, however you both avoid it. I'll just remind you.

Isn't that what they said about the Soviet Union?
And you avoided replying to the questions raised in the posts you quoted.

I did not claim that the U.S. would never fall out of power, so I did not set out to answer your question. However since you bring it up, no I don't think that's what "they" said about the Soviet Union. Many prominent figures predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union well in-advance; Ronald Reagan, Charles de Gaulle and George Orwell to name a few. Which influential figures stated that the Soviet Union would never collapse?

FWIW I used to live in the Czech Republic and had many conversations with those of the older generation who lived through communism. They unanimously described a feeling of discontent throughout the fifties through the eighties that could lead to nothing BUT The Velvet Revolution in 1989. Read about Prague Spring in 1968. These are groups of millions of people who were very discontent with their government. It is NOT difficult to predict the dissolution of a satellite state such as the CSSR or a member of the USSR such as the Ukraine when large groups of people are unhappy and actively moving towards independence.
 

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In order for you to say "Isn't that what they said about the Soviet Union?" and have it be anything more than a meaningless, throw-away statement, there has to be a parallel to our current state of affairs. There isn't any.


-copro
Says who? You :laugh: Who gave you the right to label something as meaningless when it is inconvenient for you?

I cannot help but notice that you are really uncomfortable at the fact that some people deem plausible that the US might split. A mature person's reaction would have been "it's possible but unlikely" and move on. Not that cheap analysis you decided to bring forth. You have a lot of work ahead of you.
 

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Frankly I can't believe that WJ has published such garbage. It is the Russian economy and the current regime that is in real trouble. With oil prices in free
fall, lack of foreign investments, curruption prevalent in every aspect of society the popular support that Putin has enjoyed over the years has been threatened. Many have been willing to look the other way on the lack of free speech and many government abuses of power while the economy was good. Whith the unemployment rates soaring and the social services being cut would that attitude continue? (there was an issue of the Economist devoted to the state of Russian economy a few issues back)
The response from Kremlin has been a predictable xenophobic shift of blame to the West and especially to the US. After all it is all our fault and we not them are in deep problem. It was America who has caused the current economic woes and we not them will suffer. Russia will be immune.
While we are certainlty in deep economic trouble, I believe the article reflects more on the current ideology in Russia than a true assesment of the US economy. It is a very historical approach to the problems at home. For years the Soviet Union was blaming the WW II for example for the stagnating domestic economy. Even the Mongol invasions hundreeds of years ago was used to explained why Russia is behind the West.
While scapegoating would certainly somewhat divert the wrath of the people from Kremlin it does nothing to help solve the problems. The Russian Proffesor should instead focus on Russian problems which are much deeper then ours.
Sorry for the long post, just my opinion.
 

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Says who? You :laugh: Who gave you the right to label something as meaningless when it is inconvenient for you?

I cannot help but notice that you are really uncomfortable at the fact that some people deem plausible that the US might split. A mature person's reaction would have been "it's possible but unlikely" and move on. Not that cheap analysis you decided to bring forth. You have a lot of work ahead of you.
A mature person would not advance such a preposterous argument in the first place. It's not our job in this discussion to prove America isn't going to dissolve, it's yours to show that it is. "Burden of proof"? "He who asserts, must defend"? Do either of those ring any bells?

Or, phrased differently: I submit to you, Dr. Urge, that the moon is in fact composed entirely of green sharp cheddar cheese, and under your own logic I can claim to be correct unless you come set a moon rock on my desk indicating otherwise. Don't you dare dismiss my argument as silly, either. After all, "who gave you the right to label something as meaningless when it is inconvenient for you?"

You have a *lot* to learn about basic logic and debate, much less about the sociology and economics of the issue in question.
 

urge

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I'm not asserting anything. I'm open to different opinions. I'm just saying that the Russian dude is not the only one, and that it is indeed possible. The moon could be of cheese in fact. Neither you or me have been there, so who am I to say otherwise? Plus, I don't really trust those NASA dudes.
 

urge

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A mature person would not advance such a preposterous argument in the first place. It's not our job in this discussion to prove America isn't going to dissolve, it's yours to show that it is. "Burden of proof"? "He who asserts, must defend"? Do either of those ring any bells?
You are guilty of the same crime. You are putting labels too.

Much to mature in this thread.
 
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pgg

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Isn't that what they said about the Soviet Union?
Actually, no.

Well, let me clarify that. I suppose that since "they" is an awfully vague term, you could be technically correct - "they" may include conspiracy theorists and all manner of ignorant and chromosomally impaired people who say and do a lot of stupid things.

Right now "they" are predicting the collapse of the United States.

"They" sure are wrong a lot, aren't "they"?

Or do we really mean "you" here?


aphistis said:
A mature person would not advance such a preposterous argument in the first place. It's not our job in this discussion to prove America isn't going to dissolve, it's yours to show that it is. "Burden of proof"? "He who asserts, must defend"? Do either of those ring any bells?
Go read urge's moon landing thread. It will rapidly become apparent that he is not familiar with the concepts we refer to as "extraordinary claims" or "burden of proof" ... logic and prudent, consistently applied skepticism are not his strong points.

But it makes for entertaining - if exasperating - reading.
 

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Time will tell.


BTW, have I ever told you about the Illuminati conspiracy? We'll have to do that one day.
 

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Urge, weren't you the dude shorting financials, making money hand over fist, while those reliable dudes such as Ben Bernanke was advising us that our economy was fundamentally sound?? LOL
 

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Time will tell.
Okay, humor us some more...

What are the odds that the "U.S. is going to break up" by the year 2011?

Are they... 1 in 2? 1 in 10? 1 in 100? 1 in 1,000? 1 in 1,000,000?

Come on, urge. You seem convinced. How certain are you? Or, at least what, in your estimation, are the chances?

Oh, and please also share with us what you're basing the chances on.

-copro
 

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The Russian dudes predictions are just that. Don't discount the fact that there's a new "cold war" on between the U.S. and Russia.

Just look at what the U.S. public learned about the Georgia/South Ossetia thing, versus the Russian public. I'd say it's naive, though, to assume that "our" story is the correct one. In this case, it seems our story/version was the incorrect (purposefully) one.

People forget what "intelligence wars" are really all about. Again, mis/disinformation to create doubts, fears, beliefs, whatever...... Not some dude in a trench coat working "undercover" all the time, but carefully placed "analysts" in the national media (any nation), "expert" opinions on foreign policy, plain old made up information etc. etc. This is the world we live in.

If the U.S. "system" (financial insolvency etc.) were to collapse, it's entirely unlikely that it would fault along the lines that the Russian dude speculated. But, to think that somehow the U.S. is immune to problems that have plagued many empires/great nations in history, is super-naive IMHO. The "it just can't happen here" crowd is playing in Lala land without supporting facts or a thorough understanding of history.


cf
 

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The Russian dudes predictions are just that. Don't discount the fact that there's a new "cold war" on between the U.S. and Russia.
No there's not. We're both preoccupied with crazy Muslim extremists, and we're hardly the ideological competitors we used to be.

Sure, we still have our little spats over missile defense for old time's sake, but come on ... the Cold War was Khrushchev threatening to bury us and Reagan talking up SDI and initiating massive military spending with the express purpose of bankrupting those pinko commie bastards in the Evil Empire.

We're not in a Cold War any more than we're in a Depression.
 

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The "it just can't happen here" crowd is playing in Lala land without supporting facts or a thorough understanding of history.
Dude (if you'll allow me the license to call you "dude"):

We're not talking about financial crisis. We're not talking about a major restructuring of the U.S. financial institutions. Or bailouts. Or a major economic depression. Or, even loss of confidence in the American way.

This guy said, and I quote: "The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in."

That is a concrete prediction, upon which, I'm calling complete and utter bullsh*t.

Let's not soften the target and move the goalpost here.

-copro
 

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Dude (if you'll allow me the license to call you "dude"):

We're not talking about financial crisis. We're not talking about a major restructuring of the U.S. financial institutions. Or bailouts. Or a major economic depression. Or, even loss of confidence in the American way.

This guy said, and I quote: "The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in."

That is a concrete prediction, upon which, I'm calling complete and utter bullsh*t.

Let's not soften the target and move the goalpost here.

-copro
O.k., but if the financial crisis gets bad enough, we could see a disintigration of social norms. This could lead to social unrest and all kinds of potential chaos.

The Russian guy's predictions are ridiculous, to me, based mostly on the fact that we don't really have major (i said major) REGIONS by which we are segregated ethnically. So, any potential failure of our government (precipitated by financial insolvency) will not likely take the form of a Yugoslavia.

Also, the premise that the U.S. will be "occupied" in almost any sense is SO unlikely given the fact that if push came to shove and national interests were threatened to THAT extent, our military would pull out all stops. Financial crisis be what it may, if things got THAT bad, our military power could quite literally just TAKE things, though not without a huge price and then we're entering the realm of who the hell knows what.
 

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No there's not. We're both preoccupied with crazy Muslim extremists, and we're hardly the ideological competitors we used to be.

Sure, we still have our little spats over missile defense for old time's sake, but come on ... the Cold War was Khrushchev threatening to bury us and Reagan talking up SDI and initiating massive military spending with the express purpose of bankrupting those pinko commie bastards in the Evil Empire.

We're not in a Cold War any more than we're in a Depression.
We're not in an all out Cold War of post WWII origin. This is different. But, don't think that geopolitically, we've not been extremely provocative towards Russia, whether this be in the Caucasus (gas pipeline conflicts of interest) or NATO expansion plans literally in Russia's backyard.

And it depends on how you define cold war. If you premise this on arms build up between two nations, then one could state (and many do) that the U.S. and Russia are both expanding (more Russia since we've not had a major lag) their military capabilities which will have geopolitical (and conflicting) ramifications.

http://www.defense-update.com/newscast/1207/news/271207_s300.htm

Also, take note of subtle anti-Russian rhetoric in our own media. It's all very well placed IMO, in order to turn American sentiment away from Russia. Then ask yourself why this may be the case. Potential future conflict?
 

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I don't understand how a guy like copro can claim that splitting up is impossible when we have had a Civil War where we almost split up. A lot of Confederate zealots are still walking around... And, when the going gets tough...
 

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I don't understand how a guy like copro can claim that splitting up is impossible when we have had a Civil War where we almost split up. A lot of Confederate zealots are still walking around... And, when the going gets tough...
I think said Civil War is exactly why we won't have another. Also, as an inhabitant where said Confederates wonder the landscape, I'm more worried about polar bears waging war on the US than I am about these idiots.
 

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I don't understand how a guy like copro can claim that splitting up is impossible when we have had a Civil War where we almost split up. A lot of Confederate zealots are still walking around... And, when the going gets tough...
So where is the regional polarization that took place in the decade preceding the civil war? When are the politicians voting as a geographical block, rather than as political blocks (i.e. southerners uniting as southerners, rather than democrats uniting as democrats regardless of geography)? WHere are the dense homogenous ethnic enclaves that will permit regional fractures? Just because some southerners think that the South Will Rise Again, doesn't mean there's anywhere near enough public support for it to happen.

Wait, I'm asking questions to Urge, when in reality, by his rules, I have to disprove his claims rather than wait for him to substantiate his wild conspiracy theories.

Watch out for the black helicopters Urge.
 

cfdavid

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Actually, he is not the only one saying the US will split. Gerald Celente predicts the same thing. Look him up on youtube/google/wikipedia. His business is to make predictions and he has been successful for over a decade. I have been following him for a while and he seems to have a level head. I think they are up to something.
Guys, in Urge's defense, this is the ONLY post on this thread where he actually addresses the Russian KGB guy's "predictions".

Nowhere does he suggest that the Russian dude is right-on based on fragmentation along ethnic lines, regional domination by foreign governments etc. etc.

He's simply suggesting that other nations have fragmented and other systems of government have collapsed. They've done so when others, just a decade or so earlier, said it would be impossible. I see this as Urge's point, and not some personal endorsement of a specific "prediction".

Also, note that Urge did not start this thread....... Jeez.
 

urge

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I hope it never happens. All I'm saying is that it is not as far fetched as some of you think.

Take a look at these people. They want to secede. http://www.jeffersonstate.com/

When things get worse there will be many others. That is all.
 

coprolalia

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I hope it never happens. All I'm saying is that it is not as far fetched as some of you think.

Take a look at these people. They want to secede. http://www.jeffersonstate.com/

When things get worse there will be many others. That is all.
Yeah, and there are people who think the earth is flat... and that want to kill all black people... and who worship comets... big deal. There's nut jobs everywhere (NB).

Give us your odds of how "not as far fetched" this is. Come on, urge. You're very entertaining.

-copro
 

PeepshowJohnny

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Jun 28, 2007
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Well, based on where I live...

I for one, welcome our new Canadian overlords.
 
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