Would you chose Sackler or LUCOM?


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Aug 4, 2015
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Hi all,

I met up with a friend for lunch today, and she told me about her two acceptances to Medical School. I'm not applying this year, but I am planning for a 2016 application. I was not considering applying to any foreign medical schools until she told me that she is attending Sackler next year.

She'd been accepted to LUCOM (a suspect DO school in our homestate) and Sackler, and I was actually sort of surprised she chose Sackler as I heard how foreign schools are horrible. However, she was telling me about how they have a 100% match rate and that it's more affordable, and things as such.

What would you do?

Interestingly enough...we are both Muslim. I found it was really interesting that she decided to attend Sackler because of that. We are both interfaith fellowship members, and have many Jewish friends, but the fact that Israel seems very anti-Muslim would, imo, make it a ver inhospitable environment for 4 years...
 
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Seeing as how Muslims are highly persecuted in Israel...how is this even a possibility?
I kind of thought the same way, but she was telling me how a good percentage of the Sackler student body is non-Jewish. But I agree with you in that I highly doubt there are many Muslims. I felt bad for her, I feel like she's going to be discriminated against and have to hide her identity for like....4 years lol.

LUCOM sucks, without a doubt, I've heard MANY bad opinions about the school, but I'm not sure that Sackler, for her, was a good second option.
 

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Seeing as how Muslims are highly persecuted in Israel...how is this even a possibility?
...well this thread is going to get flamey.
 

Noomm

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My only hope is that she's not one of the headscarf/burka-wearing Muslims because if she is then I don't think she's gonna have a good time in Israel. But then again I've never been to Israel, so who knows?
 
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My only hope is that she's not one of the headscarf/burka-wearing Muslims because if she is then I don't think she's gonna have a good time in Israel. But then again I've never been to Israel, so who knows?
No she definitely does not wear a headscarf! I mean looking at her, she could be mistaken for a an Israeli, but that's kind of unrelated.

After thinking about it, I don't think that either LUCOM or Sackler are good fits for her, but it's hard to advise someone to apply all over again, ya know?
 

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Like I said before, US MD > US DO > FMG > reputable IMG > alternative career > standardized patient >>>>>> Caribbean IMG.

Here we're comparing Sackler (a reputable IMG with good NY connections) with a really questionable DO school that is widely condemned on SDN (for a very good reason). Hence, go for Sackler, but if you're not comfortable with being in Israel, reapply to much better DO schools.
 
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Jewish people are nowhere as anti-muslim as LUCOM fanatics.
Haha good point, I didn't think of that. But, I do know a lot of people from my state school that are not religious at all and went to LUCOM. I think it's a mix of hardline Christians and non-religious people who have no other option.
 

Spector1

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Seeing as how Muslims are highly persecuted in Israel...how is this even a possibility?
If you're not lobbing mortars at tel aviv, the IDF will leave you alone. Seriously, some people think the Israelis and the IDF are monsters or something. They're a legitimately civilized democracy where Jews and Muslims alike enjoy Israeli citizenship and equal protection under the law.
 

Maruko

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I wouldn't go anywhere near the Middle East...
 
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Goro

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Can't help myself here; even as second class citizens in Israel, Israeli Arabs have more rights than the Arab citizens of any other Arab country.



Seeing as how Muslims are highly persecuted in Israel...how is this even a possibility?
 
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Can't help myself here; even as second class citizens in Israel, Israeli Arabs have more rights than the Arab citizens of any other Arab country.
I was born in a Muslim country where, as a female, I had more freedoms than I do here. American women have freedoms here, but I've faced a fair deal of persecution because of my religion. Perspective is everything.
 
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If you're not lobbing mortars at tel aviv, the IDF will leave you alone. Seriously, some people think the Israelis and the IDF are monsters or something. They're a legitimately civilized democracy where Jews and Muslims alike enjoy Israeli citizenship and equal protection under the law.
Not according to multiple statements from groups representing the Palestinian/Arab population of Israel. Now of course these groups have a clear bias, but so does the Israeli government and IDF. The situation is most likely not as clear as either "side" would suggest.
 

GrapesofRath

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Sackler grads are considered in-state in NY. Sackler by a miiiiiiile. They've also got extremely strong connections to many prestigious residencies in NYC (Columbia, NYU, etc).
To go off this there was a thread recently where it was between NYITCOM vs Sackler and there was a very reasonable case then that Sackler could be a better option(I know gonnif basically called it a toss up). And that's with a very solid DO school such as NYITCOM.
 
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so basically you've been listening to Hamas claim they're innocent and they have no idea why the Israelis would ever act in self defense.
Hm. No, considering Hamas is a terrorist organization/governing body of the Gaza Strip, and has no relationship to Palestinian/Arab citizens of Israel. I was talking about statements from advocacy groups like Mossawa or The Jerusalem Fund, and various Israeli thinkers/activists from the past 60 years or so. Of course these voices tend to get less screen time-- downside of putting down the guns I guess.
 
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Neither. Sometimes dreams stay that way and you move on.
 

Maruko

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To go off this there was a thread recently where it was between NYITCOM vs Sackler and there was a very reasonable case then that Sackler could be a better option(I know gonnif basically called it a toss up). And that's with a very solid DO school such as NYITCOM.
How can Sackler be better than NYCOM?
 
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Spector1

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This is bull****. Statements like these are the reason why people can't get along and why this thread will most likely eventually get closed because it will completely digress into a political topic. Nobody even mentioned the word "Hamas," yet you felt it necessary to assert this sarcastic, passive-aggressive stance about "OHHHHHH SO BASICALLY YOU'VE BEEN LISTENING TO HAMAS." Stfu dude. People can speak maturely about a topic without asserting to such petty tactics. I'm done with this thread before it turns into the topic I know it inevitably will.

Oh and for the record, like the poster above me said, Hamas has no relationship with the Arab citizens of Israel. You know.... kinda like how the Mexican drug cartel also has no relationship with my roommate Carlos.
Arab citizens of Israel can hold full israeli citizenship, vote, serve in the armed forces, sit in Knesset, and have equal protection under the law. Obviously the government security forces don't have qualms about profiling but that is just common sense in contrast with western paralysis and political correctness. After all, when was the last time a jew suicide bombed a bus full of muslims. Oh wait that never happened.
 
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Arab citizens of Israel can hold full israeli citizenship, vote, serve in the armed forces, sit in Knesset, and have equal protection under the law. Obviously the government security forces don't have qualms about profiling but that is just common sense in contrast with western paralysis and political correctness. After all, when was the last time a jew suicide bombed a bus full of muslims. Oh wait that never happened.
Political correctness, or treating people with respect? This comes down to the age old argument of whether a nation should prioritize national security or individual liberty. The problem, then, is two fold: 1) It's easy to support the profiling of people who are not you under the guise of common sense. Yet men in America, for example, often rally against courts unfairly siding with the woman in cases of child custody and rape, even though this is also so called "intelligent profiling," since men are often at fault in these situations. 2) The positive effects of domestic profiling are dubious.

And let's remember that terrorism is the tactic of the desperate; the IDF grew from consolidated Jewish terrorist groups-- eg Irgun and Haganah-- back in the late 1930s and 40s. You can google those proper nouns if you want to learn, or continue to parrot the terrorism=islam narrative.
 
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Lawper

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Sorry to disrupt your political conversation, but I have to mention an important finding.

However, she was telling me about how they have a 100% match rate and that it's more affordable, and things as such.
100% match rate is rare-to-impossible. See below

You're confusing 100% match with 100% placement. 100% placement means every grad ends up in a residency spot, though some won't initially match and have to scramble to find a position. This is common. 100% match means that every person in the school gets into a residency without having to go through SOAP or scramble. This is exceedingly rare, even at top 10 schools as there is typically at least 1 or 2 people who shoot for fields they have no business ranking or just only rank a few spots thinking they'll be fine. My rule when applying was that I tried not to apply to any school that didn't have a 90% match rate, and strongly preferred schools that had over a 95% match rate (which, to me at least, shows that it was an issue with a few students applying foolishly rather than a curriculum or administrative issue).
 
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GrapesofRath

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How can Sackler be better than NYCOM?
It's not an issue of which is better. You have to look at where each of their graduates place into. Sackler graduates are looked at as "in state" for many NY residency programs and like mentioned above have good linkage to strong residency programs such as Columbia. For those who have certain interests that they want to specialize in(or at least a general idea of), Sackler can provide them a better opportunity to do this than NYITCOM. There are other scenarios where NYITCOM is a better option. That's why gonnif called it a "toss up" a couple weeks back and why there's no simple either or answer here.
 
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I personally would not be very proud of a degree awarded by a university which teaches that young earth creationism is the scientifically superior theory to Darwinism.

LUCOM is a medical school as much as a naturopath can be called a doctor.
 

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I would choose...neither. Despite Sackler's ties to NY, four years in Israel for someone who is likely to have no family or connections in the area is going to be extremely difficult. Medical school is challenging by default. Throw in a foreign country, possibility of anti-Islam attitudes... sounds exceedingly stressful.
 

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I would choose...neither. Despite Sackler's ties to NY, four years in Israel for someone who is likely to have no family or connections in the area is going to be extremely difficult. Medical school is challenging by default. Throw in a foreign country, possibility of anti-Islam attitudes... sounds exceedingly stressful.
I concur with this. There's no reason to make the uphill climb even steeper. LUCOM is full of nutters and the best thing to do is probably to just reapply MD/DO with an improved application.
 
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familyaerospace

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Can't help myself here; even as second class citizens in Israel, Israeli Arabs have more rights than the Arab citizens of any other Arab country.
Thank you Goro!

Seriously, most Israelis are actually very accepting towards Muslims as well as Christians. In my three years of yeshiva, I have only had heard condemnation for the occasional acts of violence performed by my co-religionists. We were told to do what we could to stop the violence and protect anyone who might be a victim of the hostility even if it means we try to shield the other person to save them. When it comes down to it, you are more likely to be a Jew killed by Muslim extremists than the opposite. My group of mostly secular Jews had rocks thrown at us by Palestinians when we were in Israel and it was in an area which was within the 1967 lines. They targeted us for being Jews. If Muslims hang out with Jews, they could become targeted too.

If you are in Tel Aviv (which is where Sackler is), there is very little extremism as most of the Israelis there are very very chill and secular. It will be a "You're Muslim? That's cool. Try that restaurant over there. It's supposed to have halal meat. Wanna get together this weekend and study?" Jerusalem can be a different animal regardless of what religion you are though so I would be careful there.

Now I am not going to lie, racial profiling happens everywhere. I was profiled too and interrogated in Israel. My father looks Iraqi and looks a lot like one of Saddam Hussein's sons and I have some of that makeup where no one is sure where I am from. So I did see what some people go through. No one believed I was Jewish either since I didn't speak Hebrew.

Of course, getting back to the original question, I would be going to Sackler hands down. It is also the gay capitol of the middle east so I am further biased (plus they also have a kosher McDonalds!) Nothing against my DO colleagues, but it is really hard to argue against Sackler.
 
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If you are in Tel Aviv (which is where Sackler is), there is very little extremism as most of the Israelis there are very very chill and secular. It will be a "You're Muslim? That's cool. Try that restaurant over there. It's supposed to have halal meat. Wanna get together this weekend and study?" Jerusalem can be a different animal regardless of what religion you are though so I would be careful there.
Ok dude, there are many bad Muslims, I'm not trying to sugarcoat that. But don't go on a propaganda tirade for Israel. Why are there separate buses for Muslims who have always lived in the Peninsula, and are trying to go work in their shops? If that's not segregation, I don't what is.

Israeli Jews have an elitist attitude, there's no way around that. But that's not a reflection on Judaism, it's a reflection of their Zionist philosophies.

But I'm not trying to discuss that.

Update: My friend is now packing for Israel, best of luck to her!
 

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Ok dude, there are many bad Muslims, I'm not trying to sugarcoat that. But don't go on a propaganda tirade for Israel. Why are there separate buses for Muslims who have always lived in the Peninsula, and are trying to go work in their shops? If that's not segregation, I don't what is.

Israeli Jews have an elitist attitude, there's no way around that. But that's not a reflection on Judaism, it's a reflection of their Zionist philosophies.

But I'm not trying to discuss that.

Update: My friend is now packing for Israel, best of luck to her!
 

familyaerospace

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Ok dude, there are many bad Muslims, I'm not trying to sugarcoat that. But don't go on a propaganda tirade for Israel. Why are there separate buses for Muslims who have always lived in the Peninsula, and are trying to go work in their shops? If that's not segregation, I don't what is.

Israeli Jews have an elitist attitude, there's no way around that. But that's not a reflection on Judaism, it's a reflection of their Zionist philosophies.

But I'm not trying to discuss that.

Update: My friend is now packing for Israel, best of luck to her!
Why are you doing propaganda for Hamas? Or is it really the BDS movement?

Have you been to Israel? I have. I've shared seats with Muslims and Palestinians on the buses. I've worked with Muslims. I have sat on committees for things such as film festivals were we have to pick what to show while walking a fine line between the anti-Israeli lies and the overly pro-Israeli lies. Don't jump to conclusions until you have seen in person. However, if you hate Israel so bad, there is no reason for you to go to Israel. You asked for an opinion though.

I am speaking the truth about my experiences in Israel as a person who everyone thought was a Palestinian based on appearance. I've seen the Israel that is scary as well as the Israel that is beautiful. As someone who has been the recipient of anti-Semitic attacks when in Israel, I understand why I was interrogated for 45 minutes and given a Jewish trivia quiz in order to see if I was real or not to see if I was likely to blow something up.

However, in four years, your friend will be a doctor who was trained in Israel. You will, I assume, still be in touch with her. If she turns out that she likes it, I suspect you are going to accuse her of being a traitor or something. She has a wonderful opportunity and my heart-felt best of luck to her.
 
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Why are you doing propaganda for Hamas? Or is it really the BDS movement?

Have you been to Israel? I have. I've shared seats with Muslims and Palestinians on the buses. I've worked with Muslims. I have sat on committees for things such as film festivals were we have to pick what to show while walking a fine line between the anti-Israeli lies and the overly pro-Israeli lies. Don't jump to conclusions until you have seen in person. However, if you hate Israel so bad, there is no reason for you to go to Israel. You asked for an opinion though.

I am speaking the truth about my experiences in Israel as a person who everyone thought was a Palestinian based on appearance. I've seen the Israel that is scary as well as the Israel that is beautiful. As someone who has been the recipient of anti-Semitic attacks when in Israel, I understand why I was interrogated for 45 minutes and given a Jewish trivia quiz in order to see if I was real or not to see if I was likely to blow something up.

However, in four years, your friend will be a doctor who was trained in Israel. You will, I assume, still be in touch with her. If she turns out that she likes it, I suspect you are going to accuse her of being a traitor or something. She has a wonderful opportunity and my heart-felt best of luck to her.
Who said anything about Hamas? I didn't even mention it. Typical.


"As someone who has been the recipient of anti-Semitic attacks when in Israel, I understand why I was interrogated for 45 minutes and given a Jewish trivia quiz in order to see if I was real or not to see if I was likely to blow something up. "

So Muslims are likely to blow stuff up? Man this is disgusting.....You should really reevaluate the way you perceive others.


Also, I never called her a traitor. We both have many Jewish friends, BUT, Jews in America are different from Jews in Israel. I fear for her personal happiness, and really, her safety. You have the most disgusting preconceived notions of Muslims. It's offensive.
 

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Who said anything about Hamas? I didn't even mention it. Typical.


"As someone who has been the recipient of anti-Semitic attacks when in Israel, I understand why I was interrogated for 45 minutes and given a Jewish trivia quiz in order to see if I was real or not to see if I was likely to blow something up. "

So Muslims are likely to blow stuff up? Man this is disgusting.....You should really reevaluate the way you perceive others.


Also, I never called her a traitor. We both have many Jewish friends, BUT, Jews in America are different from Jews in Israel. I fear for her personal happiness, and really, her safety. You have the most disgusting preconceived notions of Muslims. It's offensive.
 
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It's a fact, if you live in Israel you support Zionism. However, there are some Jews in America that support Zionism, and some that don't. So yeah, these two groups of Jews are different.

Typically, Zionist Jews don't like Muslims. And my friend is going to go study in the heartland.

Who knows, maybe she'll convert to Judaism, heck, it'd be a lot easier for her there if she did.
 

NotASerialKiller

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It's a fact, if you live in Israel you support Zionism. However, there are some Jews in America that support Zionism, and some that don't. So yeah, these two groups of Jews are different.

Typically, Zionist Jews don't like Muslims. And my friend is going to go study in the heartland.

Who knows, maybe she'll convert to Judaism, heck, it'd be a lot easier for her there if she did.
Okay, now I'll respond instead of just quoting your ignorant statements back to you. You have never been to Israel. You are not Jewish. Don't be surprised that people respond in a hostile manner when you run your mouth about a group of people you clearly don't understand and a place you've never been. Half my family is Israeli, and many Israelis have lived alongside Arabs for a very, very long time, speak Arabic and have absolutely no problem with them.
You are the one who is painting an uninformed, generalized picture of an entire country based on zero personal experience. I don't want to discuss politics in the middle east on SDN, but I do want to inform anyone reading your posts that they should hold very little weight. That's it, I won't post again.
 

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Why are you doing propaganda for Hamas? Or is it really the BDS movement?

Have you been to Israel? I have. I've shared seats with Muslims and Palestinians on the buses. I've worked with Muslims. I have sat on committees for things such as film festivals were we have to pick what to show while walking a fine line between the anti-Israeli lies and the overly pro-Israeli lies. Don't jump to conclusions until you have seen in person. However, if you hate Israel so bad, there is no reason for you to go to Israel. You asked for an opinion though.

I am speaking the truth about my experiences in Israel as a person who everyone thought was a Palestinian based on appearance. I've seen the Israel that is scary as well as the Israel that is beautiful. As someone who has been the recipient of anti-Semitic attacks when in Israel, I understand why I was interrogated for 45 minutes and given a Jewish trivia quiz in order to see if I was real or not to see if I was likely to blow something up.

However, in four years, your friend will be a doctor who was trained in Israel. You will, I assume, still be in touch with her. If she turns out that she likes it, I suspect you are going to accuse her of being a traitor or something. She has a wonderful opportunity and my heart-felt best of luck to her.
Do you realize that you literally just said that Muslims are likely to blow something up? Coming from someone who is a transgender lesbian homosexual or whatever the hell you are (gonna treat you with the same level of respect you just gave Muslims here), I really expected you to be a little more understanding about generalizations/stigmas.

What an utterly shameful statement to make.
 

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Not sure what a question on comparing two schools has to do with engaging in political fights, so I'll leave this.



Or if you really have to vent your anger, do so by bashing LUCOM :D

I personally would not be very proud of a degree awarded by a university which teaches that young earth creationism is the scientifically superior theory to Darwinism.

LUCOM is a medical school as much as a naturopath can be called a doctor.
 

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Do you realize that you literally just said that Muslims are likely to blow something up? Coming from someone who is a transgender lesbian homosexual or whatever the hell you are (gonna treat you with the same level of respect you just gave Muslims here), I really expected you to be a little more understanding about generalizations/stigmas.

What an utterly shameful statement to make.
Christians are terrorists too. There are also Jewish terrorists and Muslim terrorists. What they saw was someone who was dressed Hassidic, looked Palestinian but did not understand Hebrew and carried barely any luggage (I am an ultralight traveler) and was in the airport trying to board a plane where literally someone just did that a few days before. The same treatment that they give my father who looks Iraqi. You are accusing me of doing Israeli propaganda and used the exact words that both Hamas and the Boycott movement use and give the same lies.

You need to build yourself a bridge and get over it especially with your homophobic remarks.

Peace be with you as you certainly seem to need it.

I am no longer going to be responding to this thread.
 
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Seriously-- sympathy with either general "side" does not make one the worst people on that side. It's psychologically detrimental and dangerous to live under constant threat of mortar fire and threats of being driven into the sea-- this statement doesn't make me a Likud party leader or 1940s Irgun member. It's a grossly inappropriate use of force for an established military to retaliate against insurgent/terrorist groups by the massacre of innocent civilians (be that the US in Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen etc, or Israel in Gaza, or any other example). But that statement doesn't make me Hamas either. There's different groups of people that want the same thing, of course there are going to be injustices on both sides, this is how animals work, but we should be able to talk about it rationally. I was going to talk about some of the challenges Palestinian citizens of Israel face-- here's one account http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.612195-- but this thread has no character of intelligent discussion.
 
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It's a fact, if you live in Israel you support Zionism. However, there are some Jews in America that support Zionism, and some that don't. So yeah, these two groups of Jews are different.

Typically, Zionist Jews don't like Muslims. And my friend is going to go study in the heartland.

Who knows, maybe she'll convert to Judaism, heck, it'd be a lot easier for her there if she did.
Yes, I remember seeing this study in NEJM.
 
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I'm actually an OMS-1 at LUCOM now. They do have more religious overtones than other Christian medical schools for sure. But I found their interview and orientation to be much heavier on the religious than what the actual day to day has. There is an optional 1 hour convocation on Wednesdays and some of the professors pray before class. I'd say about a 1/4 of the students are really religious. We have regional and religious diversity in my class. Thankfully you can find a great chana masala here :happy: . If you find the religious bent too awkward there is always lecture capture. The professors are nice and accessible for questions in person and email. I have other friends that are first years at other DO and MD schools right now and we're all learning the same thing (suffering through Biochem together). My professors have been much better at responding to questions than theirs have been. We all agree there is more medical student support at my school, specifically if you are married or have a family. I applied late in the season last year (Dec/Jan) and had four interviews and was waitlisted with 2. Initially I was bummed because I'd have to leave my home state, but after talking with my friends- just based on the support I get here, I'm glad I ended up at Liberty. I will warn you though LUCOM is really service project and medically underserved oriented. We did one event before classes even started, so if that isn't sort of your thing then it won't be a good fit. I was concerned about match issues since LUCOM is new, but I think as long as you rock step 1 you'll be fine getting into the specialty you want.
 
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If you find the religious bent too awkward there is always lecture capture. The professors are nice and accessible for questions in person and email.
@Blooms in Adversity -hey just had a quick question....how is the lecture capture system in your school? Do the lectures get uploaded immediately after class? Also are the classes mandatory (except for OPP etc)? Thanks in advance...
 

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Typically, Zionist Jews don't like Muslims. And my friend is going to go study in the heartland.
Hey, plenty of zionists and IDF veterans probably looked at your friend's application and decided to give her a shot at getting an MD. Seem weird for people who supposedly hate Muslims.

who knows, maybe she'll convert to Judaism, heck, it'd be a lot easier for her there if she did.
Dude tel aviv is the heartland of liberal Israel. Stay away from Jerusalem and the settlements and she'll be fine.
 
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Given the astronomical cost of becoming a physician, choose very carefully.