Sad about med school v. babies

[1Path]

Although it would be *nice* to think that yes we can indeed change the nature of the beast called medicine the reality is that medicine is FULL of type A workaholics.

I think this is the sole reason medicine is so "difficult", IMHO. I personally think engineering is the most "difficult" field on the planet, but because it has many "Type B", laid back kinda folks, the "intensity" of it is seems far, far less than there is in medicine.

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[Tribeca]

I think this is the sole reason medicine is so "difficult", IMHO. I personally think engineering is the most "difficult" field on the planet, but because it has many "Type B", laid back kinda folks, the "intensity" of it is seems far, far less than there is in medicine.

good point.

 

[efex101]

I hope my post was not coming off in any particular way because that is not my intention. Just keep in mind that even in IM or the subspecialties of IM the hours can be extremely long as well. I think that there is just no "safe haven" in medicine per se for folks wanting to spend a lot of time with families. Unless you are lucky enough to find a part-time position in the area you are looking for it seems pretty difficult to find a good balance. There are some excellent fields out there *but* not all that want to gain entry into them will. There is a lot of "numbers" games also played in medicine and for the cush fields like derm/rads/optho/ent you need stratospheric board scores and more. So I am not trying to discourage anyone but just realize that there is much more to this than meets the eye.

 

[1Path]

I think that there is just no "safe haven" in medicine per se for folks wanting to spend a lot of time with families. Unless you are lucky enough to find a part-time position in the area you are looking for it seems pretty difficult to find a good balance.

Right, and lets' not forget that "part-time" in medicine is often 30-40 hours/week!

THANK YOU so much for rightly pointing out that surgery and OB/Gyn are NOT the only time intensive specialities in medicine and that the practice of medicine IS time intensive. Even the pathologist I know with 3 lovely kids and a husband averages 45-55 hours/week on a "good" week. My expectation is that I fully expect my career to average around 60 hours/week and if it's less than that, whoopee!

 

[efex101]

Absolutely, medicine in itself IS very time consuming. I see it all the time and even those working part-time are still putting in about 40 hrs/week. If you take some time to think about this ...you will figure the amout out. For example a pediatrician in a regular practice that opens her/his practice to patients from 8-5 Mon-Fri still has to get there let's say around 7:30 to read up on patients and will not leave her/his office until way past 5:00. Dictation takes time, and there are always phone calls to make, e-mails to answer, etc...so let's say this person works until 7:00. Now, most physicians have patients at hospitals where they may have to "round" on their patients BEFORE or AFTER they see their regular patients. Sure this does not happen all the time but it does occur. So you can see how easily someone can put in more than 12 hrs/day just taking care of patients. Then there are other logistical things to do that can also eat up time. Hence why we always throw around the numbers of about 60-80 hrs/week. This is not to say that some docs work less but again these are the cush specialties, part-timers, and those that have been in practice for eons and can make their own rules. Expect to work 80 hrs/week for at least five years post medical school. I am EASILY putting in right now during my peds rotation OVER 80 hrs/week. I have Q4 call and that is 30 hours straight in the hospital and then add the rest of the days being there by 06:30 and leaving around 1700 hours. You can see how this starts adding up. When I get home there is NO way I want to do much! much less think about cooking/cleaning/homework with kiddos/etc I am exhausted by the end of the day. I want to go home and lie around and sleep.
I think that the huge heartaches occur when folks go in "assuming" that they will have nice hours to then realize that there is no such animal for the most part. Everyone I know so far works quite a bit and have very little time for pleasure and R&R....

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

hmm, just wanted to add my husband is an architect and works the same hours being discussed here. architects make about $40,000 a year. So at least we can be thankful that as doctors we can afford a good nanny. I'm thankful my hubby will be working part-time by the time I have any more kids...

Oh, also wanted to add for the girls on here who haven't had any babies yet who were saying they want to be around for their kids/avoid having them raised by nanny etc.: you really don't know until you actually have kids what kind of arrangement you want. some women swore they'd be SAHM and then hate it and some women were all about career and then want to be SAHM. Same with the hubby... Kids are so darn inconvenient Try to keep open what options you can until you have them. I'm in the camp of gung ho SAHMs who realized they'd be a better mom if they were working outside the home...

 

[Baby Einstein]

I'm in the camp of gung ho SAHMs who realized they'd be a better mom if they were working outside the home...

Me too! Thankful I was able to do it for a year, glad it's now over (even though I miss my kid).
Your baby is really cute, MiesVanDerMom. Boy? He's a little darling.
And oxeye, oh your daughter is so so pretty. Are you OK with setting her up with my boy? He's really nice and will treat her with love and respect. His mommy did a good job raising him so far

 

[oxeye]

I'm in the camp of gung ho SAHMs who realized they'd be a better mom if they were working outside the home...

That's me too. I was a complete gung-ho, my kids will never be in day care stay-at-home-mom type before I was pregnant and while I was pregnant with my first. I was even going to home-school! All that stuff is really wonderful if that's what you want. But 6 months into my first daughter's life, I realized that I wasn't cut out for the stay-at-home-mom thing. That's when I decided it was finally time to go after medicine - I'd almost always wanted to do it but had so many reasons not to (especially with the stay-at-home-momthing).

But I also know a mom who was very serious about her career, had her daughter, and went back to work after 6 weeks. When her daughter was 4 months old, she left her job for good to be a stay-at-home-mom. It just broke her heart to leave her daughter every day.

So mies is right - you never know! You might also do just what you thought you wanted to do.

 

[oxeye]

Me too! Thankful I was able to do it for a year, glad it's now over (even though I miss my kid).
Your baby is really cute, MiesVanDerMom. Boy? He's a little darling.
And oxeye, oh your daughter is so so pretty. Are you OK with setting her up with my boy? He's really nice and will treat her with love and respect. His mommy did a good job raising him so far

LOL, of course! They'll both have doctor moms so they'll have that in common.

I love how chubby your little boy is - so cute! How old is he? I've always assumed younger than mine from your avatar, but that's probably just an old pic. My little one just turned a year old last Saturday. (that pic was taken on her birthday)

And I agree - Mies little boys are adorable. I love all the baby avatars on this site.

 

[Baby Einstein]

LOL, of course! They'll both have doctor moms so they'll have that in common.

I love how chubby your little boy is - so cute! How old is he? I've always assumed younger than mine from your avatar, but that's probably just an old pic. My little one just turned a year old last Saturday. (that pic was taken on her birthday)

And I agree - Mies little boys are adorable. I love all the baby avatars on this site.

He's gonna be a year old in 2 weeks, so they're very close in age. The picture was probably 3 months ago, but he is on the tiny side. He's trying to stay incognito though (gets too many solicitations otherwise from being so darn cute). I'm sending you a better picture by PM so we can negotiate the betrothal

 

[oxeye]

LOL, he doesn't look tiny in the picture. I was thinking about 8 months so I wasn't too far off. He looks like he has a good amount of chub on him!! More than my little peanut anyway.

I think my girl will be okay with the younger man thing. She wasn't due until September anyway, so she's not *really* a year old.

 

[efex101]

Someone posted that physicians are not the only ones with long hours and that is so true! of course we always post about our lives here but other careers are just as demanding or more. I was in the military and I put extremely long hours into that...thanks for bringing that up. For me the one main difference btw the military and medicine is that in the military once off I was off...but in medicine off does not necessarily mean off and often you have to go back to the hospital to see one of your patients.

It is so true about not knowing what *you* will want to do once your baby is placed in your arms and beyond. Your ideas change and you must keep and open mind. I was one of "I need to get back to work or else" mentalities although I ended up SAHM for six years....once I got out of the military. I did enjoy it but was ready to get some adult interaction ASAP he he.

 

[mommy2three]

it can be done....
i survived a very intense one year grad program with two children and pg with my third. in the end i missed the gpa cutoff to continue on as a med student by 1 question...but the point is that my grades WOULD have been good enough if i had been a reg med student.
yes there are sacrifices...anything you do has sacrifices. yes i may not have gotten to spend as much time with my kids as i would have liked. but i did get to spend time with them....i did not miss a single practice or game. and my husband is NOT a sahd, he works and in fact is in the process of pursuing his phd himself...we are a duel student family. yes things sometimes get crazy but over the years we have learned how to deal with it.
the point is that if you really want a thrid child it is possible

 

[1Path]

I was just saying that I'm sure most of us on here realize that when that time comes we will find a way to make things work either by having a husband who's in a less demanding career or finding a specialty which works for us or having relatives around who can help out or nannies.

I think for most premed types, having a husband who is in a less demanding field not likely. Why? Because for the most part women MD's tend to marry men in equally demanding or in my case, MORE demanding fields than medicine. That's why it's pretty important to alt least think this stuff through NOW before life gets more complicated.

As for having family around, another case of wishful thinking as far as I'm concerned UNLESS you're willing to limit yourself geographically to med schools you can attend and/or residencies you can apply for. From what I've seen, the majority of applicants don't limit themselves in this way. Then I imagine your HUSBAND may or may not agree to live near relatives (assuming they'd be willing and or able to help at all) due to personal or more likely professional reasons. So we're back to the word SACRIFICE versus telling yourself pre med school and pre husband/baby, that you will "have it all".

Finally, I too thought that since I completed a Master's degree in Chemistry with husband, newborn, AND sick parents, med school would be no problem. WRONG!!! It wasn't even close to the "hell (in the absolute funniest way possible )" that was my summer taking medical histology at a med school with a husband and kid. Saying you can do the family thing in grad school can't tell you thing about how it will be for you as a med student with a family. Grad school is waaaaayyyyyyy easier than med school simply due to having far less volume of info to learn.

And 4 grad students = 1 med student in my opinion as far as schedule and time spent learning is concerned.

 

[mshheaddoc]

it can be done....
i survived a very intense one year grad program with two children and pg with my third. in the end i missed the gpa cutoff to continue on as a med student by 1 question...but the point is that my grades WOULD have been good enough if i had been a reg med student.
yes there are sacrifices...anything you do has sacrifices. yes i may not have gotten to spend as much time with my kids as i would have liked. but i did get to spend time with them....i did not miss a single practice or game. and my husband is NOT a sahd, he works and in fact is in the process of pursuing his phd himself...we are a duel student family. yes things sometimes get crazy but over the years we have learned how to deal with it.
the point is that if you really want a thrid child it is possible

I believe it is very dependent on how support and cohesive the family unit is. I'm sorry to hear that you missed the med school link but you made it through though! Congrats. The majority of women on here know those who have made it and I'm sure some women haven't.

I was just talking to my mom about kids and med school issue. She brought up case and point our trauma surgeon who has two grown boys. Her hubby is also a surgeon. She was using her and a few other doctors we know as examples. She looks back and wonders how SHE made it working as a teacher.

But as women we often find ways to make things work, especially for families. That is the one thing she reminded. Everyone has trials and tribulations to make through. We all have a bumpy road, the family is another stage in your life.

I think many peoples concern that don't have kids, is when to have them. I wonder will I have a chance to be with them and help them learn at the early ages? Should I wait to have them then go to medical school? A few women who have children suggested this. All these questions run through my head and I'm sure many others. I'm a pretty positive person. We all have our boundaries. I know I won't be doing it alone and that I will be hiring a nanny or something of the sort to clean and help with our kids. No way getting around it. But I suppose the "when should I have kids" still resonates through my head.

 

[mommy2three]

I believe it is very dependent on how support and cohesive the family unit is. I'm sorry to hear that you missed the med school link but you made it through though! Congrats. The majority of women on here know those who have made it and I'm sure some women haven't.

thanks for the congrats even though i was unable to continue but you are right i survived and that in and of itself is a big thing.
for me personally, our baby girl was a suprise last year...a pleasant suprise but a suprise none the less. i would not change having her for the world...she will be at least 1 by time i am officially a m1 somewhere but the difference between me a yr ago and me now is i know that as a *family* unit we CAN do it.
and you are absolutely correct in saying it depends on the family unit. my dh is completely and totally behind me and is willing to do whatever it takes to get me into med school/let me succeed in med school/etc etc etc.