Saint Louis University vs. University of Toledo

[cali2012]

I can't decide between Saint Louis University or University of Toledo. As an OOS resident for UT, tuition first year is 52,000ish but every year after that is 23,000. At SLU, its 42,000 every year, got no scholarship.

I heard that SLU might be better ranked. I don't know which one to pick. Any advice/opinions would be much appreciated!

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[bcat85]

SLU.. do it.

 

[koolbeenz]

I don't know much about University of Toledo, but SLU is a great med school. I know people who go there and absolutely love it. It may not be in the nicest/safest part of town, but you'll get a great education there. And if you study hard, you'll end up in a great residency program, like you would at any med school.

 

[Phoenix.]

Well, it's a $50,000 tuition difference. If all else is equal, then obviously the cheaper school is the better option. If I were you, I'd scour threads on SDN for each of those two schools, and also call the admissions office of each school and ask if there is a current student there you could talk to on the phone. I'd have a list of questions/concerns ready to ask them. Or, if you can't get ahold of anyone that way, perhaps PM one or two students that go to those schools who post in pre-allo or their school's allopathic class thread and who sound like they wouldn't mind answering some questions about their school. Also, I think that geography can be a big part of this choice too. I'm assuming you're from CA. If so, start thinking of anyone you can that lives in or has lived in one of those cities. Check out the location, cost of living and if you can see yourself there. Did you have any particular gut feelings when you interviewed? There must be some differences between the schools you already know about (curriculum, facilities, clinical/research focus, etc.). If you haven't done so already, make up a list of pros and cons for each school. That should definitely help.

For what it's worth, I can't imagine the "ranking" difference you mentioned above will be a big deal. Or rather, if you are from CA and want to return for residency, perhaps ask for match lists from each of the schools (as well as step 1 scores), and/or ask if CA students that attend their schools have much luck matching back in CA (I've heard it's pretty hard regardless). Maybe one school does have more name recognition or connections than the other. But even if that's the case, if you do well in classes and on the boards, it probably doesn't matter which one you go to. Ah, another thing to keep in mind is to ask how many "away" rotations you can do at each school. Some schools let you do many away rotations so that you have a better chance of matching back home. Other more regional schools may only allow you to do three one-month rotations away from the school.

 

[boobaunutz]

I interviewed at both and i really liked them both. Everyone at each school was really nice. The faculty i met seemed engaged and interested. I think SLU is a better school but Toledo was a "nicer" place. I simply mean that the people at Toledo seemed friendlier.
I would choose SLU. In fact, I turned down my acceptance at Toledo and stayed on the WL at SLU. I think St. Louis is a more vibrant city (relatively speaking), and it felt more like home to me. I could see myself living in StL (and I used to). I just had a hard time picturing myself in Toledo.
Sorry this doesn't really fit with your implicit request for cold hard facts. My decision would just be based on the feel of the school. I think they're both great places, for what it's worth.

 

[LilMissPositive]

Rank shouldn't matter. Thing is, whichever school you choose you'll do well and have your M.D. You can get a good residency no matter what the rank of your school is. My sister is a resident at the Cleveland Clinic and there's an M.D. who works there who went to school in the Caribbean, and did his residency at some big name place... maybe it was Mayo clinic...but I'm not sure.

I like SLU but have never been to UT. If you really love both, and money is a deciding factor... I would go cheaper. Go with your heart (and your pocket book... because no one likes being in debt forever!).

Good luck!!!

 

[Dedikated2liftn]

I went to SLU for my undergrad--do yourself a favor, go to Toledo and save the money.

 

[Ginzo]

I can't decide between Saint Louis University or University of Toledo. As an OOS resident for UT, tuition first year is 52,000ish but every year after that is 23,000. At SLU, its 42,000 every year, got no scholarship.

I heard that SLU might be better ranked. I don't know which one to pick. Any advice/opinions would be much appreciated!

You've underestimated how much Toledo costs:

http://hsc.utoledo.edu/depts/stufnaid/pdf/med1.pdf - MS-1: $54,598 (OOS)
http://hsc.utoledo.edu/depts/stufnaid/pdf/med2.pdf - MS-2: $24,134
http://hsc.utoledo.edu/depts/stufnaid/pdf/med3.pdf - MS-3: $32,212
http://hsc.utoledo.edu/depts/stufnaid/pdf/med4.pdf - MS-4: $32,212

MS-3 & MS-4 cost more than the first two years because you go year round. The total tuition cost is $143,156

SLU Med tuition is currently $43,830. 4 years of that would be $175,320.

At the present tuition rates, Toledo would be $32,164 cheaper. Both Toledo and St. Louis have low costs of living.

So, you should obviously go to SLU so I can get off Toledo's WL.

 

[cali2012]

You've underestimated how much Toledo costs:

http://hsc.utoledo.edu/depts/stufnaid/pdf/med1.pdf - MS-1: $54,598 (OOS)
http://hsc.utoledo.edu/depts/stufnaid/pdf/med2.pdf - MS-2: $24,134
http://hsc.utoledo.edu/depts/stufnaid/pdf/med3.pdf - MS-3: $32,212
http://hsc.utoledo.edu/depts/stufnaid/pdf/med4.pdf - MS-4: $32,212

MS-3 & MS-4 cost more than the first two years because you go year round. The total tuition cost is $143,156

SLU Med tuition is currently $43,830. 4 years of that would be $175,320.

At the present tuition rates, Toledo would be $32,164 cheaper. Both Toledo and St. Louis have low costs of living.

So, you should obviously go to SLU so I can get off Toledo's WL.

Didn't notice the jump in tuition for 3rd and 4th year at Toledo. Might change my decision. GL with the WL!

 

[Hallm_7]

I could be mistaken, but I assume SLU would also see an increase in costs 3rd and 4th year of a similar percentage. It's my understanding that most medical schools increase tuition for 3rd and 4th years by about 33% (12 months instead of 9 months of school). Published tutition figures are always the first two years. I would contact SLU to confirm their tuition situation.

In all honesty the residency you end up at won't be influenced at all by whether or not you go to SLU or UT. In fact, unless you go to one of the top 10 or 20 schools in the country it doesn't make a difference (and even that difference is pretty small).

 

[cali2012]

I could be mistaken, but I assume SLU would also see an increase in costs 3rd and 4th year of a similar percentage. It's my understanding that most medical schools increase tuition for 3rd and 4th years by about 33% (12 months instead of 9 months of school). Published tutition figures are always the first two years. I would contact SLU to confirm their tuition situation.

In all honesty the residency you end up at won't be influenced at all by whether or not you go to SLU or UT. In fact, unless you go to one of the top 10 or 20 schools in the country it doesn't make a difference (and even that difference is pretty small).

Thanks for your input. I checked slu's website and it seems the tuition is the same all 4 years surprisingly. Yea, it seems the impression I've gotten from talking to people is that it doesn't matter too much where you go as long as you do well. Perhaps i'll flip a coin

 

[bcat85]

Thanks for your input. I checked slu's website and it seems the tuition is the same all 4 years surprisingly. Yea, it seems the impression I've gotten from talking to people is that it doesn't matter too much where you go as long as you do well. Perhaps i'll flip a coin

do it....

 

[LilMissPositive]

You've underestimated how much Toledo costs:

http://hsc.utoledo.edu/depts/stufnaid/pdf/med1.pdf - MS-1: $54,598 (OOS)
http://hsc.utoledo.edu/depts/stufnaid/pdf/med2.pdf - MS-2: $24,134
http://hsc.utoledo.edu/depts/stufnaid/pdf/med3.pdf - MS-3: $32,212
http://hsc.utoledo.edu/depts/stufnaid/pdf/med4.pdf - MS-4: $32,212

MS-3 & MS-4 cost more than the first two years because you go year round. The total tuition cost is $143,156

SLU Med tuition is currently $43,830. 4 years of that would be $175,320.

At the present tuition rates, Toledo would be $32,164 cheaper. Both Toledo and St. Louis have low costs of living.

So, you should obviously go to SLU so I can get off Toledo's WL.

$32,164 is still huge amount of money to be able to save for what everyone is saying will be just about the same education. Either way you're going to be a MD and your patients don't care where you went. If you're willing to flip a coin, I would say the choice is obvious. Go to UT and save your self over 32 THOUSAND dollars!

 

[Ginzo]

$32,164 is still huge amount of money to be able to save for what everyone is saying will be just about the same education. Either way you're going to be a MD and your patients don't care where you went. If you're willing to flip a coin, I would say the choice is obvious. Go to UT and save your self over 32 THOUSAND dollars!

32k is a nice chunk of change, but probably not enough to sway the OP's decision if he prefers SLU overall.

 

[LilMissPositive]

Ginzo,
That would make sense but if Cali2012 really wanted to go to SLU that badly over UT this thread wouldn't exist. To me, it would seem as they are both great options for him/her. Personally, I just feel that if you're looking for scholarships/ financial aide it would be in your best interest to pick the school that will save you that much money.

Plus don't forget. 32k is just the base amount of money. As you pay back your loans, you have interest. And your salary during residency is really very low... only slightly more than 30K a year, on average and before taxes. And that for 3-5 years, depending on if you go on to be a chief resident for a year and/or do a fellowship. That means you'll really be dealing with 32K times interest for about 7-9 years. And while the rates may be lower than they used to be, that's still nearly an additional $12,000 over time.

That means you'll owe more along the lines of $44,000. Cali2012, I definitely say pick UT.

 

[Ginzo]

I think you need to research resident salaries a little bit more. Almost all of the ones I've seen have been in the 40s. Some did start in the upper 30s, but they ended up in the 40s quickly. Granted this is still a pathetic salary when you've got 200 grand in unsecured debt, are working 80 hours a week, and are making life-and-death decisions.

Think of it this way: You're still going to be eating dog food, but at least it's going to be Iams.

And your salary during residency is really very low... only slightly more than 30K a year, on average and before taxes.

 

[LilMissPositive]

Okay so say 40k before taxes and not low 30k. I mean I definitely agree that its low pay for such a strenuous work schedule. However, I still think the fact that you will be receiving low pay and dealing with interest should be taken into consideration. Since cali2012 is (or was. Has a decision been made?) debating which school to attend and money seemed to play a role in this decision, I personally think 44k+ debt would be a huge deciding factor for me and I would want to go to UT.

Oh and good luck on your UT waitlist, Ginzo. I really hope you get in!

 

[Ginzo]

Oh and good luck on your UT waitlist, Ginzo. I really hope you get in!

I'm already in, but thanks

 

[LilMissPositive]

Congrats!!

 

[bcat85]

As you can see.. they're held equally and are about equal price... go where you feel hte most comfortable.