Salaries in academic psychiatry

[argatroban16]

Hey everyone,

I realize there were a number of threads on psych salaries but didn't see much on academic pay, so I thought it would make sense to have a separate thread on this as well.

I was wondering what kind of range there is, especially for people who spend a significant portion of their time on research (i.e. probably > 75%). I'd assume one would be on some sort of K-Award post-residency? Would be great to hear some experiences.

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[masterofmonkeys]

https://jfr.uams.edu/usefullink.php

AAMC data for 2015. As with a lot of this stuff, it's inaccurate (primarily at the assistant prof level) due to the comparatively large proportion of psychiatrists who are part time (even in academics). Many of the salary databases don't correct to FTE because this is a relatively rare problem in other specialties.

I just took my first attending job in child, and every offer I got was between 180-200 +/- productivity compensation. It was remarkably geographically consistent with little differentiation based on COL.

Salary support gets...weird very quickly when grants get involved. I'm somewhere around 5% supported by research grants and that like tripled the complexity of my compensation schedule.

 

[Stagg737]

https://jfr.uams.edu/usefullink.php

AAMC data for 2015. As with a lot of this stuff, it's inaccurate (primarily at the assistant prof level) due to the comparatively large proportion of psychiatrists who are part time (even in academics). Many of the salary databases don't correct to FTE because this is a relatively rare problem in other specialties.

I just took my first attending job in child, and every offer I got was between 180-200 +/- productivity compensation. It was remarkably geographically consistent with little differentiation based on COL.

Salary support gets...weird very quickly when grants get involved. I'm somewhere around 5% supported by research grants and that like tripled the complexity of my compensation schedule.

Can you elaborate on the bolded a little? I'm interested in getting involved with research but have very little experience with it in general. How does research support from grants affect your compensation schedule (other than adding the grant money to your funding)?

 

[tr]

Straight clinician jobs in academic setting for general adult psychiatry start in 150-180 range depending on your institution.

Researchers on Ks quite a bit less, NIH salary cap for that award is $90K so your institution is on the hook for the rest, depending on your bargaining skills you may get them to put you somewhere in the 130-150 range I should think.

 

[masterofmonkeys]

Can you elaborate on the bolded a little? I'm interested in getting involved with research but have very little experience with it in general. How does research support from grants affect your compensation schedule (other than adding the grant money to your funding)?

I'm 5% research, and it's coming form someone else's grants (and I'm literally allergic to grant-writing) so I'm probably not the best person to ask. And honestly because it's such a small chunk of my already small salary, I did not pay much attention to it. But some of the factors at play are 'matching' (For instance, if the grant will support 50k, the school might pony up another 10-20k), incentives for publishing, re-upping grants, etc, stipends for how many post-docs/grad students you are on committees for, support in your lab, etc, and the infamous Dean's Tax, which is a chunk of the grant that flows directly to the Dean's Office and theoretically pays for your infrastructure and non-direct administrative needs. I say theoretically because I've heard of Dean's Taxes as low as 15% and as high as 50%. Some schools charge a greater or lesser dean's tax where you're housed (for instance in campuses with expansions, you may owe more to the college/department if you move to the new building). In other words...complicated.

 

[dl2dp2]

Hey everyone,

I realize there were a number of threads on psych salaries but didn't see much on academic pay, so I thought it would make sense to have a separate thread on this as well.

I was wondering what kind of range there is, especially for people who spend a significant portion of their time on research (i.e. probably > 75%). I'd assume one would be on some sort of K-Award post-residency? Would be great to hear some experiences.

This is extremely location specific and the range is extremely broad, and if one reveals too much personal experiences it would likely throw privacy concerns into a mix. Let's just say pooling everyone with K awards, you might see a have a variable total individual income on his or her tax return somewhere between 100k and 500k+ with a nationwide median of about 180k.

 

[tortuga87]

It's so low, that I get embarrassed talking about it tbh

First off, most people do not get a K award straight out of residency, even if they shoot for it. So, if you are still committed to research, then you will work in a fellowship and then get hired as an instructor. You wont break 100K during fellowship or as an instructor, at least with your base pay. You also wont be working >75% research at this point. Then, you will be hired as an assistant professor, provided you get funding of your own (e.g., a K). Many people drop out before they get a K award, in the sense that they stop pursuing majority research careers because the pay is so low.

Expect to make low 100K (100-140K) in total (research + clinic) as an assistant professor. Midwest area might even get as low as 90K. In general, you will have to think outside the box to make more. E.g., start your own practice or do some consulting, although you will be working more than 100% capacity (e.g., 75% research, 50% clinical) at that point.

 

[dl2dp2]

Midwest area might even get as low as 90K.

Really? I thought that in the Midwest you are more likely to get a combo package where the institution front you 180k 1.0 FTE with 75% (K award) and the rest generated through straight clinic time. You make it sound like you make even LESS money moving to the Midwest... lol even less incentive for me even consider going on the job market then...

 

[masterofmonkeys]

Certain Midwest state schools with strong research foundations pay wuite abit better for the researcher types than more prestigious institutions. Sluox i know of at least 3 midwest schools setup like you say

 

[Jack Napier]

I know of two institutions in the Midwest who paid 170K to clinical assistant professors. FWIW

 

[asdf0987]

In the northeast and the south I have heard in the range of 150-190

 

[Mad Jack]

Hey everyone,

I realize there were a number of threads on psych salaries but didn't see much on academic pay, so I thought it would make sense to have a separate thread on this as well.

I was wondering what kind of range there is, especially for people who spend a significant portion of their time on research (i.e. probably > 75%). I'd assume one would be on some sort of K-Award post-residency? Would be great to hear some experiences.

In the Northeast, I've seen most offers in the 160k-180k range.

 

[twright]

UCSF starts around $120-140K. Mass General probably about the same or even lower. These salaries are a lot lower than non academic. For example Kaiser starts around $220K. I'd echo what one of the previous posters wrote: if you are planning on a research career, be prepared to make less than the straight clinical academic faculty and be prepared to make a lot less than the straight clinical non academic faculty. If NIH caps the contribution from a K award at $90-100K for 75% effort, do the math. That means you need to make up the remaining 25% of your salary through clinical work, e.g. the department would need to be willing to pay you $33K for 25% clinical effort.

 

[masterofmonkeys]

Clinical faculty in midwest I wouldnt accept less than 180 unless it was REALLY easy work

 

[kidshrink]

I think I can help with this question since I often help with hiring decisions for my department (in the midwest). Generally, in academic psychiatry when we hire new faculty there is little difference in salary between hiring clinician-educators or clinician-researchers (the two broad general categories of faculty roles). The former is for faculty who primarily do clinical work and teach/supervise and the latter for faculty doing research and some clinical work. We generally start faculty fresh out of residency at $175-180 with some opportunity for merit bonuses. In the case of clinician-educators the bonus is keyed to their clinical productivity and/or significant teaching success. These faculty are also encouraged to write papers and publish, and this can partially feed into their bonus. For research faculty the bonus is generally keyed to their success in grants and papers. Rather than having different salaries we generally offer research faculty a "start-up package" which will protect some part of their time for a fixed period (ie. 50% time protected for 2-3 years) and give them some money to get their research program started (support for a research assistant, lab supplies, etc.). For faculty in specialities like child we might increase their starting salary about another $10-15K because they have 2 board certifications. Much depends on the individual candidate and their needs, and their background.

An academic life does pay less than private practice or Kaiser (other big organizations) but it offers much in terms of flexibility of time, travel, and opportunity to do many things each day. I really enjoy it.

 

[SteinUmStein]

Great to see information on the Midwest here. Anyone have insight or experience re: academic clinical faculty set-ups/salary ranges for early career positions in Minnesota, Iowa, or Wisconsin area? Are clinical faculty positions generally associated with built-in call/unit coverage, or is that variable? Feel free to message me if you'd prefer to remain anonymous. TIA!