Salaries/Lifestyles and Residencies

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by Tenesma, Jun 14, 2002.

  1. Tenesma

    Tenesma Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,332
    Likes Received:
    127
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Hi guys!

    I have been a long-time reader of this forum and have enjoyed most of the banter, and even learned a few things... But I have noticed a disturbing trend in the types of questions being asked. They seem to always revolve around salary and lifestyle...

    1) if we wanted a great salary we should have gone into business. Medical students/Doctors are obsessive-compulsive, aggressive, dedicated, motivated, masochistic and with these traits we would have made TONS OF MONEY ON WALL STREET!!!

    2) if we wanted a great lifestyle with little responsiblity we could have worked as managers at a local Blockbuster.

    You only have one life to live, you want to choose the profession that is going to make you happy... regardless of pay and lifestyle. If you are happy at work, you will be happy at home (because no matter what job you choose, you will always spend a greater percentage of your life at work than at home). Could you imagine choosing a field based on lifestyle/salary, only to find out 5 years into being an attending that your field is irrelevant, or that reimbursements have been cut by 3/4??? or even worse, we hit such a bad recession that physician's salaries drop to 60-80k a year (like in some european countries?)...

    I think a better suggestion for future docs choosing a career would be to ask questions like this (for example): to all neurologists and neuro residents what do you enjoy about your field and what do you hate? that way you can look for a field that is truly compatible with you.

    By the way, I chose my residency based on these criteria:
    1) a lot of hands-on
    2) very aggressive mentality
    3) a lot of pharmacology/physiology/physio-pathology
    4) quick changes/lethal situations
    5) being in the OR
    6) very sick patients
    = anesthesia

    Just a thought
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. Ryo-Ohki

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Messages:
    3,575
    Likes Received:
    1
    Salary and lifestyle are important in the context of your family. I want my children and wife to have the best things. And, of course, I want to actually see my kids grow up.

    If you think a common MBA can earn as much as a MD, you are sadly mistaken. In the business world, WHO you know is much more important then WHAT you know. The multi-million salaries you hear for MBAs on this board are based on the worker's family ties. For a common person without important connections, these salaries are completely out of the question.

    Your statements can be viewed as "I'm a better doctor because I do not care about lifestyle/salary". Remember, how a doctor views the salary/lifestyle issue is not indicative of the quality of care provided to a patient. Do you have a family? Do you worry about making ends meet? Money is not an important issue in your life. Can you understand why it is an important issue in other people's lives?

    You're right, money should not be the SOLE factor in deciding a profession. However, that does not mean money shouldn't be a factor in making decisions.
     
  4. Tenesma

    Tenesma Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,332
    Likes Received:
    127
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Point well taken... After re-reading my post, I realized that it could possibly come across as holier-than-though...

    My point basically boils down to including more factors into specialty choice. If we were to just go by salary and lifestyle we would all be either dermatologists or allergists... And if some stranger were to come across this board (Mr. Sandman sound familiar?) some of our threads would come across as if we were only interested in those 2 things.

    But I do have a repartee regarding MBAs... My presumption is that the average medical student/resident is far beyond the average business student in many, many aspects - and thus we can't go by the average MBA salaries/lifestyles. I have a lot of friends in the business world, and the ones who had the same character traits that i mentioned in my earlier post have made quite a life for themselves (without the advantage of a trust-fund or a lucky connection). Assuming a physician finishes residency and pays off all outstanding loans (age 35-38, that is if no babies/mortgages/illnesses get in the way) he/she would then have 25 years of potential earning ahead. An MBA grad would have his/her starting point at age 28-30 and would thus have an earning potential of 35 years... Those 10 years of earnings/savings can't be discounted nor the fact that there is no realistic salary cap for MBAs. From a financial point of view, the only true advantage we have is our job security (something the MBAs can only dream and lose hair about). Am i looking at this too simplistically? (not to mention that MBAs don't have to suffer needle-sticks!!)

    anway, back to the first point: for future-docs, please ask those in the trenches more specific and pertinent questions, and you will find a lot of guidance.
     
  5. drusso

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 1998
    Messages:
    6,943
    Likes Received:
    2,089
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I think it is foolish for medical students today to not SERIOUSLY consider the lifestyle, earning potential, and opportunities for personal growth in the fields they choose. Physicians have the lowest rate of return on their educational investment; this is a fact. This coupled with the fact that the average medical school graduate hits the ground running with approximately $90-100K of debt should give a rational person serious pause.

    Medical graduates today cannot expect the same opportunities for professional growth and entrepreneurship as previous physicians did. It's preposterous to believe that you will graduate from residency, hang a shingle, and start making a ton of money. It's just not that way anymore. The golden age of medicine ended over 25 years ago.

    Medicine is EXTREMELY stressful. Physicians have among the highest rates of divorce, substance abuse, and suicide of any professional. Why? Increasingly, physicians are being asked to assume legal and financial responsibility for things beyond their control ("cost-shifting", "risk-sharing", etc). Most physicians are unhappy and dissatisfied with the current state of medical affairs. A majority would not choose a medical career again! Students need to think about these things.

    Students need to think CAREFULLY about what kind of career they want, what they enjoy about medicine, and what will sustain them (personally, professionally, and spiritually) in the second half of their lives. People live longer today and students will likely practice medicine for the rest of their professional lives. A person is not the same 45 as he or she was at 25...and forty-five is the peak of most physicians' careers, there's still at least 20 years left to practice after that! The wisest advice I ever got was from a seasoned orthopedic surgeon who said, "It's one thing at 28 years old to be Johnny-on-the-spot when grandma falls out of bed and breaks her hip, but quite a different thing at 58 years old. Choose your specialty not only based upon what you like, but how you want to live."

    I think that it is that "how you want to live" part that is profound. It is my impression that too many medical students get very narrow and overly-focused too early all in an effort to get into medical school and get a good residency. I think that this has some major unintended consequences. I know too many surgeons and workaholic internists who literally live in the hospital. Sure, they make great money. But, when you're paying alimony and child support to two wives and their boyfriends you better be bringing in the dough! Who wants *THAT* life?

    I love medicine. I think it is a noble career. I am looking forward to helping people to the fullest extent I can. But, I am also keenly aware that this profession can chew you up and spit you out.

    Lifestyle matters...physicians ought not be martyrs.
     
  6. Acro Yali

    Acro Yali Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2001
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    0
    My thoughts are that its very hard, and often useless, to change others. Lots of motivations go into choosing a specialty; from money to lifestyle, from personal interest to job satisfaction...etc; everyone goes into medicine for different goals and reasons. If everyone has exactly the same motivations, aptitude, and goals, everyone would end up in specialty X-that wouldn't be good. With that said, its rare to find people who are intersted in one specialty or the other solely because of money/lifestyle, or just because of personal interest. These are the extreme ends. Most people I imagine fall somewhere in the middle and have different priorities when picking a specialty. However, I am not saying that I respect those who pick their specialties ONLY because of money/lifestyle/prestige, nor am I saying that everyone should ONLY pick one based on interest and ignore everything else. With that said, I know of people who pick specialty X only because of money/lifestyle. And I think they are not too smart in picking a career in medicine as a means to get to that end; way too much time and monetary investment put into this whole premed/med school/residency/debt/application/age thing. If they are smart enough to get into medical school in the first place and are determined enough to make great money/lifestyle, chances are that you should be at least equally successful in other careers that don't require a 10 year training period, with little or no debt to begin with; which brings back the question, why exactly are they in medicine if their goals are only money/lifestyle? One the other hand, while I do admire the philanthropic/selflessness of people who choose to practice in third world countries, I will probably never be able to do it because that doesn't fit with my professional goal. So, in this spectrum of career priorities, I fall into the more idealist side of this scale (meaning that I place personal interest at a higher priority than money/lifestyle); while I do like helping others and have to pick a specialty that I will enjoy doing, I can't simply ignore the more practical aspect of medicine-I prefer to think that I should be compensated for my training and loving it while doing it. I imagine most people will fall into the middle of this spectrum of career choices, some more practical, some more idealistic than the others.
     
  7. Ligament

    Ligament Interventional Pain Management
    Physician Lifetime Donor SDN Advisor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2002
    Messages:
    4,775
    Likes Received:
    1,142
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Dr. Russo,

    I fully concur. Spoken like a true Physiatrist. : )

    I think the recent onslaught of "salary" threads is a GOOD thing. Too many med. students have no idea about the salaries they will make and this is very important information.

    It used to be that one could enter any specialty and not worry about salary; you would be a Doctor and make a mint no matter what you did. Now things are different and the med. student NEEDS to be VERY concerned about money. When I hear about some Pediatricians making 60k it makes me sick and mad. Making this "little" (under 100k) is a VERY POOR return on investment even if you love the specialty, considering you may have over 200k in med. school loans.

    If you had to pay 200k to get a 60k job it would be very difficult to justify your career even if you LOVED it, especially if you have a family.

    Dont get me wrong, a salary just under 100k is good money, but not worth the loans and lost potential income.

    Regards!
     
  8. Ryo-Ohki

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Messages:
    3,575
    Likes Received:
    1
    Pediatricians are making 60K?!
     
  9. brownman

    brownman Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2001
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    4
    The concept of the selfless human being is great, just not conducive to family life. Here are my thoughts:

    1) Just because you got into medical school does not mean you would be equivalently qualified to be successful in other fields. No offense, but just because you got into Creighton School of Medicine, does not mean you could've smoked the GMATS, had tons of work experience and gotten into Stanford, Harvard or Wharton. For now, in this world, a medical degree is the surest gaurantee of a stable, successful long term career of meaning. I am a teacher with a very substantial paycheck.

    2) Additionally, I've been in the business world. It is extremely hard to get into...EXTREMELY HARD.. to get into a top business school. Harder then to get into a mid tier med school. Yet whether you graduated from Harvard Med, or Walla walla school of medicine, your earning potential falls within equivalent ranges. It's anot a bad life...just delayed gratification. Trust me...I've sold two software companies, and in many ways I would have been more comfortable knowing that a safety net of a comfortable job and lifestyle awaited me on the other end, then the risk of either business collapsing (which whether you sell you company or go belly up, you always fear). The likelihood of you being the business guy or lawyer who makes what we make in a lifetime (barring any complete changes to the world as we know it) is more dependant on chance then on ability. If based purely on ability, medicine is a great profession well worth the financial and emotional awards.

    I'VE HEARD NINE THOUSAND TIMES ON THIS SITE, IF YOU WANT TO MAKE MONEY...JUST GO INTO BUSINESS. Does anyone here have any idea how hard it is to run a business, or move up the corporate ladder or be in meetings where nothing you say or do matters..where you're sole job is to take credit for other peoples work, and avoid being fired. That's what the business world is unless you run your own show.

    In life, I would only have been one of two things, an entrepreneur or a doctor. Why? Because I have to sides of me: stability and risk. Stability says be a doctor, make a difference, grow in knowledge EVERYDAY, and get a great paycheck. The risk side of me says be an entreprenuer: take chances, risk it all, be bold, and the reward will follow. All I can say is that nobody...NOBODY..in this world became wealthy being wanting to be. They became truly wealthy by doing something they love, AND BELIEVING IT WAS THE ONLY THING TO DO. For every one of your friends in the business world that you know who made a lot of money, I'll show you people in their 20's, 30's, and 40s who have no net worth (in fact that is most of America). SO yes, do medicine because you love it, but realize for all it's problems, there is no better paying job that is readily available. The question is CAN YOU TAKE IT? The only difference between us and everyone else is that we have to have more stamina. That is all.

    I've been on the other side, and all I can say is, medicine is a great field. You should be happy you have the chance to practice it. Now, the compensation for residents on the other hand...well...that's a different matter...
     
  10. gatormed

    gatormed Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    First of all, this is an ironic post coming from a future anesthesiologist. Anesthesia is the current big fad specialty based on...salary and lifestyle. Not that you are necessarily motivated by those factors.
    As to med students picking fields based on lifestyle, everyone these days seems to want a field with a lot of hands-on work, good pay, and short hours. Dentistry sounds like the perfect specialty.
     
  11. dr.evil

    dr.evil Senior Member
    Physician 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    gatormed has a good point on the anesthesia thing.

    Tenesma says that the properties of his/her specialty of choice are:

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> By the way, I chose my residency based on these criteria:
    1) a lot of hands-on
    2) very aggressive mentality
    3) a lot of pharmacology/physiology/physio-pathology
    4) quick changes/lethal situations
    5) being in the OR
    6) very sick patients
    = anesthesia </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now those qualities are verbatim, general surgery. But of course lifestyle factors would come in to play when choosing between general surgery and anesthesia so...

    I just find it odd that someone would start a post that complains of something that they are guilty of.

    Maybe I'm way off here but I don't think so
     
  12. Amen to Brownman's post. I spent 10 years on Wall Street (the majority at a firm you would all recognize), and I am now about to enter my second year of medical school.

    Trust me, it is significantly easier to get into medical school than it is to get a TOP job on Wall Street.

    The average doctor earns a ton more than your average lawyer or MBA. Of course, you would never know this from reading the newspapers. They make it seem as if everyone on the Street is making millions--what they don't tell you is that they are actually talking about 1% of the workforce.

    People who think they would be better off in other fields or with other degrees don't have a clue.

    The fact is, unless you can get into one of a handful of top schools, then win a savage on campus recruiting frenzy, you would likely land yourself a nice job as a glorified clerk for $50,000.
     
  13. acurarte

    acurarte Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    0
    Personally, if I was motivated solely by money I would not have spent some of the best years of my life obtaining 184K of debt and start my real earnings at age 33.

    Although I will pay these loans off in due time and make a nice living in the meantime, I would not have gone this route to get rich.

    Lifestyle is really relative. I guess in whatever profession you are in if you want to make the big bucks you would have to sacrifice some of your lifestyle issues.

    Money is an issue, however, and always will be. The kind of people medicine attracts are intelligent go getters (for the most part). In short they are the type of persons that demand the best (including salaries) and perhaps should be rewarded for their dedication and hard work that the majority of the population is either unwilling or unable to achieve.

    God I wish this forum had spell check for idiots like me!
     
  14. Ligament

    Ligament Interventional Pain Management
    Physician Lifetime Donor SDN Advisor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2002
    Messages:
    4,775
    Likes Received:
    1,142
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    as far as some Pediatricians making 60k (starting) , I have seen a few job openings for this range, heard some stories....I would say 60k is rare but it does exist apparently. You could check out some threads on POL. If I am mistaken please let me know, I hope I did not offend.

    I have nothing but respect for Peds. and hope everybody in this field makes a LOT more.
     
  15. Acro Yali

    Acro Yali Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2001
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is kind of out of context but why do people think that you have to go to a top business school to make it? My dad opened up his own international business 15 years ago, with no degree in business and he is doing really well. For him, all it took was dedication and entrepreneuship to make it happen. And for the "chance factor," I prefer to think chances are out there waiting to be discovered. My dad "created" such a chance to expand his business 10 years ago and watched his business blossom.

    I imagine that for the number of people who are disgruntled at business, there will be a corresponding number of people who thrive in the business world. But at least in business, your goal is by definition "money and lifestyle". The more money you make, the better a businessman you are. But in medicine, I think that if your goal is ONLY money/lifestyle, maybe you shouldn't go into medicine. It is one thing to believe that we should be compensated for our training and doing something that we love doing. It is a whole other animal if someone goes into medicine pretending to want to help others while going for nothing but money/lifestyle. Success and being "good" in different careers are defined differently. I just don't believe that a good doctor could be someone who is in it only for money/lifestyle.

    One a side note, I have come to realize that some of the people with MD/MBA degree are some of the most "socially and professionally undesirable" people I know of.
     
  16. wake up sir your surgery is over

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am going into pediatrics and it always burns me up to hear people rip on our salaries. Granted they are some of the lowest in medicine on average, but you have to take into condideration many things when you see these "average salaries". Pediatrics has more people working part time than any other field of medicine.
    At my medical school, all of the pediatrics residents tell me the starting offers are anywhere from 80K-120K, 80K being in the absolute most desireable area with a faster track to partnership, so take that 60K and shove it up your -ss. Also, salaries in the south are better than other parts of the country, and the weather is better, the football is better, the women are blonder, just my two cents. Also, peds only a 3 year rez, so start making real money at age 29 if you are like me and have gone from the cradle to school and done nothing else.

    Fact: on average a pediatrician will never make as much as surgeons, rads, or anesthesia, but we all make decisions about what is important in life. I would rather treat kids and be happy then look at slides and tissue samples, make a ton, but be bored. I'll be honest, I went to college and med school, both public, and both on scholarship, so I will not have any debt. Had I had 200K in debt I might think differently and be more inclined to go for the huge bucks. Pediatricians are some of the happiest doctors on the planet with the highest job satisfaction, and many of them are not extremely wealthy. IMAGINE THAT. Peds also has lowest suicide rate of any medical profession.

    I am glad that pediatrics has a reputation for not making any money because it keeps the vultures out. People also forget about the specialties in peds, many of which are very lucrative. By doing a peds residency, you can go into ER if you would like, if you like anesthesia type stuff but don't want to work with surgeons and don't get turned on by the traditional practice of anesthesia, you can do peds critical care. If you like doing very delicate procedures, try doing a cath on a newborn, or putting lines in 26 week old preemies as a neonatologist. Dont forget that half of all allergy fellowships are filled with peds residents.

    Trust me, I am interested in making some bones, but I will find a way to do it while doing what I absolutely love, treating children.

    Also, don't be naive about it not being important how much money you make. I assume that many of you went to priate schools. Who paid for that? In many cases probably your parents who make cash, so it is important.

    Also, don't be so non-chalant about wall street. For every guy out there in the hamptons, there are 50 guys who you never hear about, and have you checked the stock market lately. Not a lot of Benjamins being made right now. Have you ever heard of Enron, or Anderson. Be a doctor, be proud of what you make, and for god's sake don't be jealous of business people who make tons of cheese, because deep down they just might be jealous of you because you introduce yourself as "Doctor"
     
  17. Ligament

    Ligament Interventional Pain Management
    Physician Lifetime Donor SDN Advisor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2002
    Messages:
    4,775
    Likes Received:
    1,142
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    "so take that 60K and shove it up your -ss."

    come on, please be a little more mature, will you? I cannot help but interpreting this as an insult.

    I posted that I thought this type of salary was WAY too low and have nothing but the highest respect for your specialty. I HOPE you make a lot more. There is no need to attack me personally for some of the salaries being offered in your profession. Dont you think that even 80k is way too low for your level of training?

    "I am going into pediatrics and it always burns me up to hear people rip on our salaries"

    I was not ripping on your salaries!

    regards.
     
  18. wake up sir your surgery is over

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ligament,

    sorry about the inappropriate comment. I was just trying to prove a point. 80K is an insult, but my point was that people always talk about the fringe of everyting. Every single study I have ever seen has the average starting salary of peds at 110-120. and we all know that salary surveys on line are watered down. My point was that yes, 60K is either part time work or somebody getting taken advantage of big time. Most pediatric PA's make over 60. In fact my friends' sister is a general ped pa and makes 100K, no joke. If someone who knows differently please let me know and I'll eat my shorts, but information like 60K getting out will cause students such as myself to not consider peds. I never considered it until this year when I realized that I don't have the patience to work with elderly patients. But peds people are proably not involved in fourms like these because we already know we will not be making a half a mil a year. I wish you luck in your field. I guess it is orthopedics since your name is ligament. Great field. But just remember where those referrals come from!!
     
  19. njbmd

    njbmd Guest
    Moderator Emeritus 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2001
    Messages:
    9,050
    Likes Received:
    140
    Status:
    Attending Physician
     
  20. drusso

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 1998
    Messages:
    6,943
    Likes Received:
    2,089
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ligament:
    <strong>Dr. Russo,

    I fully concur. Spoken like a true Physiatrist. : )!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, we are the doctors who "add quality to life."

    --Dave
     
  21. crimson

    crimson What up Smokey!
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2001
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    0
    Brownman makes super points. There is an explicit darwinism in corporate jobs -- you basically have to outcompete your peer group level after level -- 'up or out' as they say. So if you cross the 100k stage but are not good enough for 150k then you have to leave (at least in the top firms). so if the upswing is enormous so is the downside. but no matter what your intentions, competition hurts after a while coz it stops being based on ability but more on greed and contacts.
    Which brings me to another question... How about Dentistry as a career? Genuine health care delivery, good pay, super lifestyle and even better -- independence. Also the upswing in earning potential in some states seems to be very high given the supply-demand disequilibrium (~4000 graduating from dental school but ~6000 retiring). Apart from the perpetual image and reputation issues what do you guys think about this profession?
     
  22. njbmd

    njbmd Guest
    Moderator Emeritus 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2001
    Messages:
    9,050
    Likes Received:
    140
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by crimson:
    <strong>Brownman makes super points. There is an explicit darwinism in corporate jobs -- you basically have to outcompete your peer group level after level -- 'up or out' as they say. So if you cross the 100k stage but are not good enough for 150k then you have to leave (at least in the top firms). so if the upswing is enormous so is the downside. but no matter what your intentions, competition hurts after a while coz it stops being based on ability but more on greed and contacts.
    Which brings me to another question... How about Dentistry as a career? Genuine health care delivery, good pay, super lifestyle and even better -- independence. Also the upswing in earning potential in some states seems to be very high given the supply-demand disequilibrium (~4000 graduating from dental school but ~6000 retiring). Apart from the perpetual image and reputation issues what do you guys think about this profession?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi there,
    There is a dental school at my university where I graduated from medical school. When I was a second-year medical student, I was one of the tutors for the dental students in both Gross Anatomy and Biochemistry. I loved their classes and labs especially the occlusion lab. There is plenty of artistry and hands-on work in dentistry not to mention that you are done in four years unless you plan to do Oral Surgery (another four years after Dental School). The Dental students shared the classroom with us for one semester of Pathology and again in Ethics class. It was fun to interact with them. They were our best allies when we were studying head and neck anatomy because their dissections were much finer than ours in most cases. I often said that if I had it to do over again, I would have seriously considered applying to Dental School now that I know it is very interesting work and great fun to do. :)
     

Share This Page