salary opinion

[gator2886]

---

Members don't see this ad.

What does a pain doc make generating 6-7k RvU's per year? Reasonable payor mix of 1/2 medicare (small medicaid) and 1/2 commercial.....

 

[drusso]

What does a pain doc make generating 6-7k RvU's per year? Reasonable payor mix of 1/2 medicare (small medicaid) and 1/2 commercial.....

Seems like a good part-time gig.

 

[paindoc007]

What does a pain doc make generating 6-7k RvU's per year? Reasonable payor mix of 1/2 medicare (small medicaid) and 1/2 commercial.....

In a medium sized city you may be able to get 60$/wrvu range.. So 390 in that example.

I get more than 60, but I work in a rural location. My colleagues in desirable cities make low 50s (I could never get hosed by my employer to that level) but you may be okay w that.

 

[jsaul]

Seems like a good part-time gig.

rvu??? what is that? I have been practicing for over 15 years and have no idea what an rvu is

 

[lonelobo]

rvu??? what is that? I have been practicing for over 15 years and have no idea what an rvu is

An obtuse method for hospitals to manipulate salaries of employed physicians

 

[paindoc007]

An obtuse method for hospitals to manipulate salaries of employed physicians

Nope. Wrvu contract is the one good thing we have going for us as employed physicians. I’ll take transparency and clarity over vagueness, really I want no part in anything else. Pro fee Collection based? Denials on the backend? Diff bw asc/in office reimbursement? No thank you. That headache is for PP docs, not for me.

 

[jsaul]

Nope. Wrvu contract is the one good thing we have going for us as employed physicians. I’ll take transparency and clarity over vagueness, really I want no part in anything else. Pro fee Collection based? Denials on the backend? Diff bw asc/in office reimbursement? No thank you. That headache is for PP docs, not for me.

so now there is a wrvu too? in addition to rvu?

 

[lonelobo]

Nope. Wrvu contract is the one good thing we have going for us as employed physicians. I’ll take transparency and clarity over vagueness, really I want no part in anything else. Pro fee Collection based? Denials on the backend? Diff bw asc/in office reimbursement? No thank you. That headache is for PP docs, not for me.

I beg to differ I make my contracts and I know exactly what I get paid for them. pretty clear

 

[lonelobo]

Using caution with wRVU-based physician compensation

Key thoughts:

www.beckershospitalreview.com

 

[SSdoc33]

i wouldnt put rvu and transparency in the same sentence. You may get a good salary via rvu but it is due to the SOS differential. Rvus are good for the doc bc you theoretically get paid the same for an esi on medicain vs esi on blue cross

 

[paindoc007]

I beg to differ I make my contracts and I know exactly what I get paid for them. pretty clear

Can you explain or provide details how your contract works? We’d love to hear more

 

[paindoc007]

i wouldnt put rvu and transparency in the same sentence. You may get a good salary via rvu but it is due to the SOS differential. Rvus are good for the doc bc you theoretically get paid the same for an esi on medicain vs esi on blue cross

To me, that’s transparency. I know exactly what I earn for what I do. To the dollar. No waiting to obtain collections, hearing about denials down the line, or having to frankly even look or think about insurance when I provide care. I like it this way.

 

[cowboydoc]

What does a pain doc make generating 6-7k RvU's per year? Reasonable payor mix of 1/2 medicare (small medicaid) and 1/2 commercial.....

RVU obviates the need to look at payer mix. All location dependent. $50-70 per rvu is a good range. Popular places on the low end, harder jobs to fill on the high end.

 

[drusso]

i wouldnt put rvu and transparency in the same sentence. You may get a good salary via rvu but it is due to the SOS differential. Rvus are good for the doc bc you theoretically get paid the same for an esi on medicain vs esi on blue cross

 

[clubdeac]

you should be b/w 4-500k

 

[90dayMD]

you should be b/w 4-500k

What is an average salary for a pain doc say 3-5 years out in a reasonably busy practice

 

[lonelobo]

Can you explain or provide details how your contract works? We’d love to hear more

I don't have a contract I own MY business .... I negotiate the the contracts with insurers...not rocket science

 

[painfree23]

you should be b/w 4-500k

Even in a big city?

 

[paindoc007]

I don't have a contract I own MY business .... I negotiate the the contracts with insurers...not rocket science

Okay, your earlier statements implied you were also employed is why I asked.

 

[MikeMerk-MtS]

What is an average salary for a pain doc say 3-5 years out in a reasonably busy practice

2018 MGMA Pain Mgmt (excludes Academics):
-All (median/90%) = $453K/$723K
-East = $413K/$575K

 

[Ferrismonk]

2018 MGMA Pain Mgmt (excludes Academics):
-All (median/90%) = $453K/$723K
-East = $413K/$575K

Reminder to those reading, this is total compensation, not salary. $450K median is probably around $350K "salary"

 

[painfree23]

Reminder to those reading, this is total compensation, not salary. $450K median is probably around $350K "salary"

Very good point. You mean with benefits ? Health care etc, it will be up to 450k?

 

[cowboydoc]

Very good point. You mean with benefits ? Health care etc, it will be up to 450k?

CME, retirement, health expenses, malpractice, licenses, etc. can add to about $100k

 

[lonelobo]

Okay, your earlier statements implied you were also employed is why I asked.

not sure what statement gave you that impression

 

[paindoc007]

not sure what statement gave you that impression

The one where I said wrvu based contract is the best thing we have as employed physicians, and you subsequently disagreed. What’s so hard to understand about that? Is English your second language?

 

[SSdoc33]

The one where I said wrvu based contract is the best thing we have as employed physicians, and you subsequently disagreed. What’s so hard to understand about that? Is English your second language?

knock it off. pick a fight somewhere else

nowhere in this thread did he imply he was employed. if you are going to be punchy, at least have a good reason for it

 

[MikeMerk-MtS]

Reminder to those reading, this is total compensation, not salary. $450K median is probably around $350K "salary"

Is median salary really $350K? That seems a bit low, no?

 

[Ferrismonk]

Is median salary really $350K? That seems a bit low, no?

I've been offered between $200K to $425K to start. Average I've seen is about $300K. Actual income long term is all over the board. It really depends on your payor mix, how busy you are (or want to be), which procedures you're willing to do, how much inpatient/administrative/teaching you take on, whether or not you also do anesthesia, any ownership in ancillaries you have, etc.

 

[SommeRiver]

Total compensation in this field is a median of around 425-450, with salary generally around 300-350. Salary is but one number and does not always represent total money coming in...It is very expensive to insure you, pay your malpractice, staff your clinic, match your 401k, purchase equipment, buy your journals and CME, send you to a conference and pay your meals and travel...

You may get bonuses for performance, ASC shares, DME and PT money, profit sharing if partnership occurs...

I've had odd discussions with potential new docs who expect something coming out of fellowship that isn't realistic, and absolutely not deserved.

Many new graduates think (in my limited experience) they deserve partnership status in 12 to 24 months, even if the practice is over 50 yrs old and there are over 20 doctors in the group (in our case).

 

[painfree23]

I've been offered between $200K to $425K to start. Average I've seen is about $300K. Actual income long term is all over the board. It really depends on your payor mix, how busy you are (or want to be), which procedures you're willing to do, how much inpatient/administrative/teaching you take on, whether or not you also do anesthesia, any ownership in ancillaries you have, etc.

How do you get paid for admin/teaching? Do schools pay for you to take on residents or med students?

 

[changeofheart2016]

For a new graduate, what are some ways you can make more starting out?

I.e. if you want to see more patients, are you able to do that? if you want to work saturday, are you able to do that? etc..

 

[cowboydoc]

For a new graduate, what are some ways you can make more starting out?

I.e. if you want to see more patients, are you able to do that? if you want to work saturday, are you able to do that? etc..

You got it. Hustle, do more, move to a "less desirable" location, save/invest. After you do this, hopefully you work on balance and don't burn out.

 

[Ferrismonk]

How do you get paid for admin/teaching? Do schools pay for you to take on residents or med students?

Negotiate it in your contract. Consider working for a university hospital.

 

[Laryngospasm]

For a new graduate, what are some ways you can make more starting out?

I.e. if you want to see more patients, are you able to do that? if you want to work saturday, are you able to do that? etc..

Go where no one else wants to.

 

[painfree23]

Negotiate it in your contract. Consider working for a university hospital.

What’s a good amount to ask for extra?

 

[SommeRiver]

How do you get paid for admin/teaching? Do schools pay for you to take on residents or med students?

Teaching takes away from your income in my experience. You're slowed down by trainees.

 

[drusso]

Total compensation in this field is a median of around 425-450, with salary generally around 300-350. Salary is but one number and does not always represent total money coming in...It is very expensive to insure you, pay your malpractice, staff your clinic, match your 401k, purchase equipment, buy your journals and CME, send you to a conference and pay your meals and travel...

You may get bonuses for performance, ASC shares, DME and PT money, profit sharing if partnership occurs...

I've had odd discussions with potential new docs who expect something coming out of fellowship that isn't realistic, and absolutely not deserved.

Many new graduates think (in my limited experience) they deserve partnership status in 12 to 24 months, even if the practice is over 50 yrs old and there are over 20 doctors in the group (in our case).

Can you expand and elaborate on what you mean by the unrealistic expectations and entitlement to partnership that new graduates demonstrate?

 

[SommeRiver]

Can you expand and elaborate on what you mean by the unrealistic expectations and entitlement to partnership that new graduates demonstrate?

...if you're a new graduate and expect a guaranteed path to partner in a short amount of time, you've got unrealistic expectations...

 

[lonelobo]

...if you're a new graduate and expect a guaranteed path to partner in a short amount of time, you've got unrealistic expectations...

Why if you show your worth , you should be given partnership...Now what partnership actually is can mean a lot of things

 

[SommeRiver]

Why if you show your worth , you should be given partnership...Now what partnership actually is can mean a lot of things

"What if you show your worth..."

You mean work hard and in some amount of time be considered for partnership? Agreed...