JustPlainBill

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This is a joke, right? If that's truly the level they're at, I'd like to see them take a board exam if they want equal practice rights....the last ITE was a real wench.....complete with the sultry look and the fire in her eyes....
 

cabinbuilder

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2nd year here. i took this little test and only missed some the nursing specific questions and the OB/infant questions. there seems to be little need for understanding pathophysiology to score perfectly. these questions are entirely knowledge based with little need for critical thinking.

we need to have two kinds of nurse practitioners: ones that pass their own exam, and more advanced ones that have also passed the family medicine boards. if an NP is willing and able to step up and take the same exams as physicians then they should be put in a different category than their peers. one might call this person an NP-BCFM (nurse practitioner, board certified in family medicine).

in the end, no amount of nursing education could replace medical school and residency though.
 

Blue Dog

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if an NP is willing and able to step up and take the same exams as physicians then they should be put in a different category than their peers. one might call this person an NP-BCFM (nurse practitioner, board certified in family medicine).
How 'bout "NP-SFS" ("Studied From Swanson's")? :rolleyes:

You can't "CLEP out" of med school and residency.
 
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^ oh i agree 100%. couldn't there be two levels of NPs though? my guess is the vast majority would stick with the nursing exams.
 

JaggerPlate

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^ oh i agree 100%. couldn't there be two levels of NPs though? my guess is the vast majority would stick with the nursing exams.
I think it's a pretty good idea ...

One could practice as an RN for a few years, take online courses, shadow other nurses for 700 hours, pass that online quiz, and go on to a wonderful career as a doc bashing, militant, independent NP.

The other could take the MCAT, apply to medical school, complete four years of medical school, complete a family medicine residency (probably around 10 -15k hours of clinical experience total to compared to the first category's 700), THEN sit for the FM boards and become certified in family medicine. These people should probably have a different degree designation though ... like DO, or MD err something. :laugh:

Obviously I'm being a jerk, but giving NPs an extra millimeter into the world of family medicine legitimacy (IE being able to sit for the boards) is a huge mistake in my opinion and is essentially an insult to anyone who is legit and sits for these boards. It's become quite apparent to me that NPs (or DNPs as they will soon be) want what docs have, but don't want to go to med school and complete a residency. Why give them the opportunity to sit for the boards that others earned? Just too easy for it to be used as leverage later down the road and doesn't give due credit to patient safety and family med as a solid specialty.

Giving more clout to NPs isn't a solution to any sort of primary care shortage in my opinion.
 
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i think that if someone wants more responsibility he needs to earn it. if NPs want responsibility beyond the scope of a PA, they need to sit for medical exams not nursing exams. in no way am i saying that this could replace medical school and residency.

here is the beauty in this: with this new higher (highest possible) tier of nursing, the role that the NPs have been fighting for is now available. they will no longer be able to say that they are blocked from providing primary care. however, how many could actually pass the family medicine boards, not to mention the step one exam? very few could!!!

the kind of people that can pass medical licensing exams are the kind of people that go to medical school, not nursing school. lets just go ahead and prove that. and if a few geniuses become NPs and are able to learn the knowledge and skills of a family medicine doctor well...my guess is that number would be insignificantly small.

in the end, the huge failure rate of nurses taking medical boards would be on the news.
 

VA Hopeful Dr

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i think that if someone wants more responsibility he needs to earn it. if NPs want responsibility beyond the scope of a PA, they need to sit for medical exams not nursing exams. in no way am i saying that this could replace medical school and residency.

here is the beauty in this: with this new higher (highest possible) tier of nursing, the role that the NPs have been fighting for is now available. they will no longer be able to say that they are blocked from providing primary care. however, how many could actually pass the family medicine boards, not to mention the step one exam? very few could!!!

the kind of people that can pass medical licensing exams are the kind of people that go to medical school, not nursing school. lets just go ahead and prove that. and if a few geniuses become NPs and are able to learn the knowledge and skills of a family medicine doctor well...my guess is that number would be insignificantly small.

in the end, the huge failure rate of nurses taking medical boards would be on the news.
This is a terrible idea. If you have NPs (or Heaven forbid DNPs) taking our board exams and passing (and it would happen), how could we realistically say "Hey, they're not as well trained as we are - don't let them practice by themselves"?
 
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^ there would be very few that would pass the boards. isn't there an oral part of the family boards?

but if some NP did pass all the MD licensing exams then yeah, i guess there would be no functional difference in the eyes of the law. we are probably talking about a scant few individuals that would be able to do this.

at least this would ensure that whatever nurses do get to "play doctor" really are up to snuff. right now the current model allows a multitude of less competent people to fight for more and more privileges at the expense of patient care.
 

VA Hopeful Dr

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^ there would be very few that would pass the boards. isn't there an oral part of the family boards?

but if some NP did pass all the MD licensing exams then yeah, i guess there would be no functional difference in the eyes of the law. we are probably talking about a scant few individuals that would be able to do this.

at least this would ensure that whatever nurses do get to "play doctor" really are up to snuff. right now the current model allows a multitude of less competent people to fight for more and more privileges at the expense of patient care.
Its just a written test, those are quite easy to study for. Implement this, and give the NPs a few years to adjust to it. Most unwise.
 
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Its just a written test, those are quite easy to study for. Implement this, and give the NPs a few years to adjust to it. Most unwise.

tell that to all the would-be doctors that went to nursing school after they took the MCAT.

doctors should really have nothing to fear here. if someone wants to take the challenge, have them step up to the plate. how about three strike and you're out?

and these NPs would still have to prove competency with various procedures, of course. that would require hours and hours of expensive classes and lots practice. this would be another very real barrier between nursing and doctoring.

there just wont be very many nurse-doctors, so nothing to fear.


on the other hand...the current circus is going to spiral out of control until NPs get whatever it is that they want. some people already believe that nurses are better than doctors. don't you think that idea will keep growing as NP gain practice rights? let's just show them, and the public, what kinds of a hurdles you have to jump over to become a doctor. let's keep track of and publish failure rates too.
 

VA Hopeful Dr

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tell that to all the would-be doctors that went to nursing school after they took the MCAT.

doctors should really have nothing to fear here. if someone wants to take the challenge, have them step up to the plate. how about three strike and you're out?

and these NPs would still have to prove competency with various procedures, of course. that would require hours and hours of expensive classes and lots practice. this would be another very real barrier between nursing and doctoring.

there just wont be very many nurse-doctors, so nothing to fear.


on the other hand...the current circus is going to spiral out of control until NPs get whatever it is that they want. some people already believe that nurses are better than doctors. don't you think that idea will keep growing as NP gain practice rights? let's just show them, and the public, what kinds of a hurdles you have to jump over to become a doctor. let's keep track of and publish failure rates too.
As the MCAT is given in college and most nursing school is undergrad level, I'm not too familiar with this notion. At my undergrad, the guys who didn't do well on the MCAT became PhDs, PharmDs, or studied hard and took it again (usually doing better).

You say doctors have nothing to fear, I could not disagree more. Even if only 10% of NPs could pass our board exam, those 10% would claim that, in terms of knowledge, they are our equal. I fail to see how we could realistically make the case that this isn't true. You and I both know it isn't true, but what person who hasn't been through our training will believe us if the major test that family docs take to become board certified is also able to be passed by nurses? We have a hard enough time proving that we're more knowledgeable as it is, why would you want to make it worse?

Procedures wouldn't be required, generally speaking. However, even if they were to be interested... it wouldn't be hard. For many of the procedures that your standard FM doc performs do not require that much training. My residency handbook states how many of each procedure I need to do to be considered competent. The numbers for many things are quite low.
 

digitlnoize

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I'm far from a supporter of FNPs, but it says at the top of the link that these do not represent the level of difficulty on the actual test. Also, the sample questions for the NBME shelf exams and for the USMLE and COMLEX are similarly easy, compared to the actual tests. Their exam could be much harder...