Sanity Check for a Non-Trad, Soon-to-be Veteran

[Ewok Trainer]

Greetings all,

I am currently active duty Special Operations, will be separating from the military next summer, and have decided that I want to be a doctor when I grow up. Between my decidedly non-medical background and an impending gap year, I could use some outside advice/criticism to make sure I’m on the right track.

Quick background to set the stage: I am eyeballing taking the MCAT in the first week of August. I was a hair under 3.8 in my non-science undergrad, and my pre-reqs are going well so far- I should be around a 3.7 when this current round of classes next week, and I’d be ecstatic if I finish with anything over a 3.8 given my work-school balance. Bygone forays into academics as a younger fellow will drop my cumulative to a ballpark 3.5.

In the military, you can request your chain of command to permit you to attend school, get into an apprenticeship, internship, etc., during the course of your final six months before separation. Obviously this is hugely valuable for a non-trad, and the powers that be have signed off on my request.

So with that said, my first scheme that needs a sanity check:

During those six months (February-August) I’ll be taking three classes at a time, which will give me enough time to also work on applications and complete shadowing: my unit physician has offered to let me tag along and is also eager to ease introductions with other MDs as well. He's also a former enlisted guy, so it's wins all the way across the board on that front. I also have essentially zero ECs (deployments make that hard), so this may be an opportunity to walk the talk. Overall it seems to me that this plan is busy but manageable- anyone think I am outrunning my headlights?

My second point of concern is a little more straightforward:

My Chem/Phys/Bio requirements will be finished late May (via Community College), and then its straight into an extra-accelerated (five week) Orgo I course from a nearby 4-year. This puts me around July 1st and brings me to my first dilemma- I’m going to be short formal Orgo II and Biochem at this point. I should add that neither is a set requirement for my #1 and I’ve been visiting biochem concepts regularly, and will continue to do so during breaks in the school year- regardless of which avenue I take. I also intend to do quite a bit of self study during those six months. I’m already good to go on CARS and P/S.

So with that said, do I; A:continue to Orgo II (the potential GPA damage due to conflict with MCAT prep time makes me hesitant ). B: see about auditing Orgo II or Biochem, or C: focus solely on the MCAT? I’m leaning towards option B.

The last one is the big question mark; since I am both submitting my applications and leaving the military next August, what should I do to fill my gap year? I Should have posed this question a month ago since Grad-school deadlines are fast approaching, but here we are.

My state school and #1 (unless I crush the MCAT) is fairly close by, and I have the amazing golden ticket that is the Post 9/11 GI Bill with extra monthly installments from a GWOT era enlistment incentive. To top it off, the GI Bill STEM extension can get me an extra nine months of benefits. I guess what I am saying, is that money shouldn’t be a major issue and I have a ton of leeway for a gap year. I am currently applying for graduate non-matriculated status in their MPH program, which crosses over with their Global Health program. Since I’m not confidant that they will give up a slot -matriculated or not- to someone with zero medical background, I will also apply to several schools as a post-bacc student. My #1 also has advertised research employment, I’ve started to look into, albeit not yet in any depth.


So that turned out to be way longer than I intended… if you slogged through all that, many thanks and your awesome. And of course, any feedback is always appreciated.

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[LunaOri]

You will need to get your clinical, volunteer, and shadowing hours in. It would be a good idea to plan on a clinical job for your gap year, in case you don't get accepted on your first attempt. And of course, finish all your prereqs. Good luck, and thank you for your service!

 

[Crayola227]

Ditto u need some shadowing volunteering clinical hours

Service shows altruism, but you also need to show that you connect with the customer service side of medicine. You certainly have the discipline. I'm talking what I call "the Mother Teresa factor."

Why medicine? What made you fall in love with being around sick people? Your gap year is a way to show how the under served and clinical activities are your favorite hobbies.

You need Orgo 2 for the MCAT

 

[jhmmd]

Greetings all,

I am currently active duty Special Operations, will be separating from the military next summer, and have decided that I want to be a doctor when I grow up. Between my decidedly non-medical background and an impending gap year, I could use some outside advice/criticism to make sure I’m on the right track.

Quick background to set the stage: I am eyeballing taking the MCAT in the first week of August. I was a hair under 3.8 in my non-science undergrad, and my pre-reqs are going well so far- I should be around a 3.7 when this current round of classes next week, and I’d be ecstatic if I finish with anything over a 3.8 given my work-school balance. Bygone forays into academics as a younger fellow will drop my cumulative to a ballpark 3.5.

In the military, you can request your chain of command to permit you to attend school, get into an apprenticeship, internship, etc., during the course of your final six months before separation. Obviously this is hugely valuable for a non-trad, and the powers that be have signed off on my request.

So with that said, my first scheme that needs a sanity check:

During those six months (February-August) I’ll be taking three classes at a time, which will give me enough time to also work on applications and complete shadowing: my unit physician has offered to let me tag along and is also eager to ease introductions with other MDs as well. He's also a former enlisted guy, so it's wins all the way across the board on that front. I also have essentially zero ECs (deployments make that hard), so this may be an opportunity to walk the talk. Overall it seems to me that this plan is busy but manageable- anyone think I am outrunning my headlights?

My second point of concern is a little more straightforward:

My Chem/Phys/Bio requirements will be finished late May (via Community College), and then its straight into an extra-accelerated (five week) Orgo I course from a nearby 4-year. This puts me around July 1st and brings me to my first dilemma- I’m going to be short formal Orgo II and Biochem at this point. I should add that neither is a set requirement for my #1 and I’ve been visiting biochem concepts regularly, and will continue to do so during breaks in the school year- regardless of which avenue I take. I also intend to do quite a bit of self study during those six months. I’m already good to go on CARS and P/S.

So with that said, do I; A:continue to Orgo II (the potential GPA damage due to conflict with MCAT prep time makes me hesitant ). B: see about auditing Orgo II or Biochem, or C: focus solely on the MCAT? I’m leaning towards option B.

The last one is the big question mark; since I am both submitting my applications and leaving the military next August, what should I do to fill my gap year? I Should have posed this question a month ago since Grad-school deadlines are fast approaching, but here we are.

My state school and #1 (unless I crush the MCAT) is fairly close by, and I have the amazing golden ticket that is the Post 9/11 GI Bill with extra monthly installments from a GWOT era enlistment incentive. To top it off, the GI Bill STEM extension can get me an extra nine months of benefits. I guess what I am saying, is that money shouldn’t be a major issue and I have a ton of leeway for a gap year. I am currently applying for graduate non-matriculated status in their MPH program, which crosses over with their Global Health program. Since I’m not confidant that they will give up a slot -matriculated or not- to someone with zero medical background, I will also apply to several schools as a post-bacc student. My #1 also has advertised research employment, I’ve started to look into, albeit not yet in any depth.


So that turned out to be way longer than I intended… if you slogged through all that, many thanks and your awesome. And of course, any feedback is always appreciated.

I would go with option C (focus solely on the MCAT). That way you have a ballpark idea of what your chances are of being accepted, and if you should target MD, DO, etc. etc. It sounds like you haven't completed the pre-reqs, though, so I would of course do that before taking MCAT.

 

[CricB4Tube]

Fellow SOF guy here who has multiple acceptances this cycle. I will say it'll be very difficult to balance military life with making a competitive application for med school. I did 3 years of college after getting off active duty so I was able to create a more traditional application and my military service was just icing on the cake, so my experience will be different from yours.
You're going to need a decent MCAT score to get your application looked at, and you're also going to want as much clinical experience as possible. Biochem is very heavy on the MCAT and you will need to understand certain orgo concepts as well. Your GPA isn't awesome but won't close any doors except from the most elite schools.
In interviews, I've found my SOF background is of very little interest and my immense clinical experience and even minor research experience has been much, much more important. I thought my SOF background would make me more unique in this process but I will warn you not to rely on it to help much. If you absolutely crush the MCAT, you should be fine if you apply broadly. If you do average-below average, you may have an uphill battle with lack of clinical/volunteer/research experience.

 

[deleted599599]

AD Corpsman with multiple acceptances this cycle. I had all my pre-reqs already done this and dropped all my eggs into the MCAT basket. I hadn't taken the pre-req courses since undergrad in 2014, so there was a learning curve, but with the amount of MCAT resources available online, I scored fairly well given I was basically starting from scratch. 6 months of before/after work studying with a wife and kids at home, still scored very competitively.

Echoing what others said- you'll need to have the "why medicine" down PAT. Without my military service I don't think I would have been as successful this cycle (GPA's lower than your prospective ones) but I've also been "doing" medicine as a HM for almost 5 years. That experience has been brought up numerous times during interviews. Shadow physicians, see what they do, find your passion, and speak to it in your application moving forward. You likely have the mentality and background to stand out from the crowd on day one, but it's important you have some kind of "origin" or slow build to why you want to be a physician.

Kill the MCAT, get involved in the community yesterday, and you'll get looks. I'm sure there are programs in the SOF communities that serve to mentor young servicemembers and help their families. This last year I've found myself focused on giving back and helping young Sailors since I already was planning on separating. Help out the young ones like your predecessors helped you, and if you are passionate about it makes your application (and more importantly you) better off in the long run.

EDIT-- To add, I don't think you "need" Orgo/Biochem explicitly before MCAT, but that depends on how well you retain info. There is so much information available for you without taking the class already. Metabolic cycles? YouTube. Synthesis reactions? YouTube. Kahn Academy and KA Lectures are amazing and free! At the end of the day the MCAT is a standardized test. Do enough practice questions, watch videos, peruse forums, and given time you'll recognize the patterns. No different than the SAT/ACT from yesteryears.

 

[Ewok Trainer]

Thanks for the advice across the board- super helpful to hear from those who've been there/done that.

On that note, I'm now leaning heavily towards ditching the MPH altogether. With where I am at now/ will be in a year, it sounds like a "nice to have" bullet point for my application, but little more. My lack of pre-reqs severely limits other useful Graduate Programs, so it seems to me like I'd be best served with some manner research/clinical employment, plus a DIY post-bacc consisting of one or two pertinent science courses, and however many others are needed to keep the GI Bill money flowing. It sounds lazy when I write that, but between a SOF career and (hopefully) Med School, a breather would also be nice at some point. Any thoughts on that?

In interviews, I've found my SOF background is of very little interest...... I thought my SOF background would make me more unique in this process but I will warn you not to rely on it to help much.

Having seen plenty of SOF guys punch above their weight in getting into top tier schools (Columbia in particular) for other focuses, this is mildly disappointing, but great to know. Probably one of the best pieces of advice I've heard for my particular circumstances.

There is so much information available for you without taking the class already......

I'm all aboard the self-study train- especially with this whole pandemic thing disrupting everything. Right now its Khan Academy or AK Lectures for the bigtime concepts, Crash Course, Bio for Bastards, APA podcasts etc. for drive time and multi-tasking.... I don't know how the previous generations prepped without all this.

 

[CricB4Tube]

Having seen plenty of SOF guys punch above their weight in getting into top tier schools (Columbia in particular) for other focuses, this is mildly disappointing, but great to know. Probably one of the best pieces of advice I've heard for my particular circumstances.

I think SOF guys tend to punch above their weight because of who they are rather than their affiliations in the military. I'm getting acceptances/interviews at schools where my MCAT is below their average, but I think it's because I have tens of thousands of hands-on clinical hours along with more volunteering, research, and college leadership roles than most traditional applicants.
Basically, SOF guys tend to have incredible resilience, work ethic, and leadership skills which are outlined in other aspects of our application. While your beret/trident may impress people familiar with military service, adcoms tend to not understand/care that you went to HALO/RASP/{insert cool school} and they aren't eager to hear your secret squirrel deployment stories.
Don't get me wrong, I think military service, especially a SOF background, catches adcom eyes since it's not something they read often in the 1,000s of applications they have to grind through, but I don't think a cool bullet point or story in your personal statement will carry you to an acceptance when there are plenty of traditional college grads that have shown they are more academically capable than you through MCAT/GPA and are more committed to medicine through tons of clinical/volunteer/research hours.
My advice: make your application competitive without including your military background. This will allow you to beat out a lot of other applicants with similar stats to you because you will have everything they have PLUS you get to talk about spec ops.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I think SOF guys tend to punch above their weight because of who they are rather than their affiliations in the military. I'm getting acceptances/interviews at schools where my MCAT is below their average, but I think it's because I have tens of thousands of hands-on clinical hours along with more volunteering, research, and college leadership roles than most traditional applicants.
Basically, SOF guys tend to have incredible resilience, work ethic, and leadership skills which are outlined in other aspects of our application. While your beret/trident may impress people familiar with military service, adcoms tend to not understand/care that you went to HALO/RASP/{insert cool school} and they aren't eager to hear your secret squirrel deployment stories.
Don't get me wrong, I think military service, especially a SOF background, catches adcom eyes since it's not something they read often in the 1,000s of applications they have to grind through, but I don't think a cool bullet point or story in your personal statement will carry you to an acceptance when there are plenty of traditional college grads that have shown they are more academically capable than you through MCAT/GPA and are more committed to medicine through tons of clinical/volunteer/research hours.
My advice: make your application competitive without including your military background. This will allow you to beat out a lot of other applicants with similar stats to you because you will have everything they have PLUS you get to talk about spec ops.

I think this nails it. Military is a great thing to have on your app, and schools will love it. But it is not a replacement for stats. If your GPA is too low or your mcat is garbage, being a vet won’t save you. If you have a decent gpa (which you do) and a good mcat, you can certainly punch above your weight if you are a good interviewer and have an otherwise good app.

You need clinical hours and some non-clinical volunteering. The military service shows service, but even with 8 years of active duty service I was still asked what other community service I was actively engaged in.

Disagree that orgo 2 is necessary for the mcat. I didn’t use anything I learned in orgo 2 on the mcat. Highly recommend taking biochem first though. It is a major part of the mcat. I had biochem passages in 3 of the 4 sections (CARS was the only exception).

 

[MusicDOc124]

Re-iterating the above. Military service doesn't matter if you don't have the scores/grades. It can make all the difference if you otherwise have what's essentially required in the first place for anyone.

 

[95ragtop]

I was an 18D. I agree with the guys above. I didn't want to rely on my background to take me places, I wanted to show I could compete without it. Ended up taking the MCAT twice, I recommend taking biochem and both o chem's before the MCAT. I think my background helped me out with getting interviews. I had zero volunteering, shadowing, or research when I applied, not the smartest move, and if I was going a more traditional route I would try to check those boxes. I got grilled at a couple places as to why I didn't have any. Shoot me a message if you need anything else.

 

[HopefulPilot]

Everyone has offered great advice. I'd reiterate the goal of making your application stand on it's own, with your military service as icing on the cake. There are many organizations on military bases that would be happy to have you as a volunteer. Also, hit up your unit medical personnel for clinical shadowing.

One last point, I don't think the GI bill STEM extension is covering medical school. I would use the gap year for application season/volunteering/adjusting to civilian life. I wouldn't spend the time money and effort on a masters program.

 

[Ewok Trainer]

Thanks for the comments- it's all good info

Guess I should clarify that the intent isn't to use my background as a shortcut- just as an enhancer to take some of the pressure off my otherwise thin ECs. As some of the above posters can testify to, the worst "team guys" out there are the ones who believe they are owed something because of their shiny badge or floppy hat- that's not me.

One last point, I don't think the GI bill STEM extension is covering medical school. I would use the gap year for application season/volunteering/adjusting to civilian life. I wouldn't spend the time money and effort on a masters program

Agreed- I ended up ditching the MPH scheme since it's a sideshow to the main attraction. Not to mention I'd be better off shoring up the knowledge base that the traditional students will have a big advantage in.

I am admittedly leery of what the VA advisor told me. I.e. a word for word regurgitation of what I had read 15 minutes prior to the conversation. (Surprising, I know) I have a few irons in the fire, so it's going to be "wait and see" for a few months.

 

[95ragtop]

Most guys I know got above 30% disability, if you're in that boat then voc rehab is an option.

 

[IsleyOfTheNorth]

You need Orgo 2 for the MCAT

IMHO, I don't believe that is true. A prep book is all you need to fill in the gaps and Orgo isn't heavily featured on the MCAT besides. (Do take Ochem 1 though!)

Biochem, however, IS heavily feature on the MCAT, so I'd recommend that one for sure before taking it (right before taking it, ideally).

 

[OnceARunner]

I think your background will help in crafting your secondary essay responses- you can use these to highlight your experience. The focus for my interviews was much more on my clinical experience and “why medicine,” as others have mentioned - I don’t think I was directly asked about my military experience at all.

Definitely agree with the advice to knock out biochem before the MCAT. I’d also advise against buying into expensive test prep programs. Getting through all of AAMC’s material alone took me plenty of time, and there are a lot of free resources out there to review content. The one purchase I did find helpful from Kaplan was their audiobook biochemistry review- not great for first-time learning but nice for review.

For your gap year, I’d look into EMT-B programs (many community colleges hold continuing education programs on nights and weekends, so you don’t have to enroll full time). Also, if you are staying in the IRR/NG/USAR you could look into picking up a short-term ADOS or COADOS assignment. Good luck and feel free to PM me with any questions!

 

[BotsogoBontle]

AD Corpsman with multiple acceptances this cycle. I had all my pre-reqs already done this and dropped all my eggs into the MCAT basket. I hadn't taken the pre-req courses since undergrad in 2014, so there was a learning curve, but with the amount of MCAT resources available online, I scored fairly well given I was basically starting from scratch. 6 months of before/after work studying with a wife and kids at home, still scored very competitively.

Echoing what others said- you'll need to have the "why medicine" down PAT. Without my military service I don't think I would have been as successful this cycle (GPA's lower than your prospective ones) but I've also been "doing" medicine as a HM for almost 5 years. That experience has been brought up numerous times during interviews. Shadow physicians, see what they do, find your passion, and speak to it in your application moving forward. You likely have the mentality and background to stand out from the crowd on day one, but it's important you have some kind of "origin" or slow build to why you want to be a physician.

Kill the MCAT, get involved in the community yesterday, and you'll get looks. I'm sure there are programs in the SOF communities that serve to mentor young servicemembers and help their families. This last year I've found myself focused on giving back and helping young Sailors since I already was planning on separating. Help out the young ones like your predecessors helped you, and if you are passionate about it makes your application (and more importantly you) better off in the long run.

EDIT-- To add, I don't think you "need" Orgo/Biochem explicitly before MCAT, but that depends on how well you retain info. There is so much information available for you without taking the class already. Metabolic cycles? YouTube. Synthesis reactions? YouTube. Kahn Academy and KA Lectures are amazing and free! At the end of the day the MCAT is a standardized test. Do enough practice questions, watch videos, peruse forums, and given time you'll recognize the patterns. No different than the SAT/ACT from yesteryears.

Hi! Thank you for this post! I have not completed pre-reqs since 2012. I think I could study for the MCAT on my own with online resources and test prep books. I’m very open to taking classes at 2yr or 4 yr schools, however. Any suggestions for classes I might want to take to help with the MCAT? I took physics, bios, bio chem, orgo requirements already in undergrad and started studying for the MCAT in undergrad, but never took it.

Thanks in advance for advice!

 

[KaBoom'd]

Thanks for the comments- it's all good info

Guess I should clarify that the intent isn't to use my background as a shortcut- just as an enhancer to take some of the pressure off my otherwise thin ECs. As some of the above posters can testify to, the worst "team guys" out there are the ones who believe they are owed something because of their shiny badge or floppy hat- that's not me.


Agreed- I ended up ditching the MPH scheme since it's a sideshow to the main attraction. Not to mention I'd be better off shoring up the knowledge base that the traditional students will have a big advantage in.

I am admittedly leery of what the VA advisor told me. I.e. a word for word regurgitation of what I had read 15 minutes prior to the conversation. (Surprising, I know) I have a few irons in the fire, so it's going to be "wait and see" for a few months.

Late to the party but MS4 here cruising toward the match after 8 years active duty as an enlisted guy and a few special operations deployments. I think you've gotten great advice here so far. I left the military in a non-med MOS without any clinical shadowing to pursue medical school and just did the unofficial minimum of 50 hours while I was completing my undergrad degree. You're already way ahead of the game in that regard so don't sweat it, I would just encourage you to do some shadowing as a civilian too to broaden your experience. Obviously the 18D and other SOF medics are going to have a different CV to talk about but you don't need to try to compensate for that. Definitely skip the MPH unless it's something you're legitimately interested in - no one will care. Your GPA is strong enough so just don't let the MCAT handicap you. I had 3.29 cumulative and 3.49 science GPAs due to terrible early undergrad experiences but it wasn't addressed at a single interview because my most recent 60+ credit hours at the time of my application were a 4.0

I've applied multiple times for the STEM extension and got denied so finally had to pay out of pocket for my final semester of medical school. It sounds like you were planning on using the GI Bill to complete undergrad courses at a cheap community college. If that's what you have to do for finances then you don't have a choice but I would strongly encourage you to do whatever you can to save that GI Bill. You are going to get into medical school as long as you put in the work for the MCAT. My $18k for the last semester of medical school is a LOT more than $4k for a full-time semester at my cheap state undergrad.

Don't worry about "thin EC's" either. Being affiliated with some undergrad pre-med club will matter exactly zero. I did do 6 months of clinical volunteering the year before I applied and a decent amount of research while finishing my undergrad degree, so I would encourage you to find some longitudinal experiences when you're out to fill gaps on AMCAS but you don't need to kill yourself and don't chase superficial stuff. If you're worried about utilizing free time in a gap year in a purposeful way, I would strongly encourage you to find some sort of employment to pay for pre-reqs and living expenses out of pocket instead of tapping the GI Bill. You can speak plainly to adcoms about having to support yourself/family so you can save the GI Bill for medical school to minimize any loan burden and they will respect that.

Finally, don't be afraid to be bold. Everyone is right that having an eye catching military CV will not get you into medical school without the necessary objective academic components, but it seems like you are checking the other boxes as well. Grab them by the collar with the first paragraph of the personal statement. You will likely get acceptances early so leverage that for your top school. I had a very late (April) interview for my top school so after thanking my interviewers at the close of the interview I told them that I was honored to be invited to interview, I really wanted to be there, and that I would definitely matriculate if I was fortunate enough to be offered an acceptance. I then made it clear that I would not be reapplying because I was holding an acceptance at another institution. You can be both humble and direct at the same time.

You're going to do great. I remember it seemed like a lot of uncertainty at the time when I was preparing to separate from active duty but the entire experience so far has flown by and worked out exactly as I hoped it would. And believe me, that military CV will probably pay even more dividends when applying to residency. Good luck!