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SAT may go EZ-Mode

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Darko, Dec 17, 2005.

  1. Darko

    Darko Senior Member
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    Is breaking up the SAT really in students' best interests? If they can't focus for 4 hours straight, how are they going to handle the MCAT -- or life, for that matter?

     
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  3. Em1

    Em1 Senior Member
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    Wimps!
     
  4. Fermata

    Fermata Hold me.
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  5. A-non-y-mous

    A-non-y-mous Junior Member
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    I think they'll survive just fine. :rolleyes:
     
  6. DrBowtie

    DrBowtie Final Countdown
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    The MCAT is going easy mode too.
     
  7. masterMood

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    I predict a significant increase in adderall prescriptions.
     
  8. MikeyLu2010

    MikeyLu2010 UT Longhorns Alumni
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    Not everyone taking the SATs are going to med school or professional school for that matter.. Just make this news a little anecdote you tell your grand kids in the future..."back when i was your age, we took the SAT straight..and I took the MCATS for 8 hrs!!!" :D
     
  9. Shredder

    Shredder User
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    :sleep: lets hope the reliable inequity outcries prevent this from happening. american students are substellar enough as it is, this shortening is rubbish. put them through more to separate the men from the boys

    well, my siblings give me back in the days lectures--"back when i took the SAT we couldnt use a calculator". looks like things are getting easier and easier, good sign for american education eh. whats next, textbooks allowed on the MCAT?
     
  10. DropkickMurphy

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    We can only hope..... ;) j/k
     
  11. JDWflash44

    JDWflash44 Workin it...
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    Lets remember 99% of the people taking the SAT will probably never apply to medical school....
     
  12. Mr.Patel

    Mr.Patel Junior Member
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    I hope they change it in about 6 Months (I know Impossible) before I take my SATs.

    (Only a Junior in High school- and at times read these forums to see what I want to do with my life).
     
  13. tigress

    tigress queen of the jungle
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    Shredder really makes a good point. We coddle American students, while students in other countries get pushed hard from the time they're little. I wouldn't be surprised if students in places like Japan take 4 hour tests by the time they're 10 or younger. We wonder why we're starting to lose clout in the scientific/engineering fields, and why our children consistently perform worse than children in other countries on tests of math and science skills, and then we go and baby students by doing things like this with the SAT.

    Of course most people taking the SAT will never apply to medical school, or professional school of any kind. But there was also a report out a few days ago about the dropping literacy rates of COLLEGE GRADUATES in the US. That's probably due to a number of things, but IMO one reason is the current opinion that everybody should go to college. I don't think it should necessarily be the natural progression after high school. For one thing, kids ought to get a good enough education by the end of high school to be able to hold down a good, even a technical job. And by sending everybody to college we've had to create a huge number of schools with lower admissions standards. So sure, we can brag that as a nation we have the highest percentage of college graduates, but some of our college graduates can barely read! I don't know when we started thinking that college was a great option for everybody.

    I suppose I sort of sound like an old fart (or something). I just see what education is like in many other countries, and how we tiptoe around our own children rather than pushing them, and I see that the future brightest minds really will come mostly from outside the US. I don't want that for my children.
     
  14. penguinophile

    penguinophile MetalHead
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    Ditto Tigress and Shredder! :thumbup:
     
  15. cooldreams

    cooldreams American Mensa Member :)
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    this is quite rediculous.

    however it follows even what we are taught and what the work place is trying to take heed to. this should not be about our attention deficits but our dvt's... sitting down for 1+hrs straights is generally recommended to be bad. i know i know... we all do it... but this is still the facts... and that coupled with the ave american being over weight lends to a change in a number of things.

    if their only reason is that they cant focus long enough, then 1) they havent done enough research, and 2) are taking political pressure from above.

    there is strong pushing to make americans look good all of the time. sure, look good but doesnt mean are better. a longer test will only be that... a longer test. everyone has to go through it so what are the complaints here?? does not make sense to say its not fair or whatever. a number of tests i took as an engineering student were designed such that we would NOT get through them. ive taken too many tests to count that were over 4 hrs in length... these test not only your logical reasoning but stamina. they test what your mind does under stress.

    a book with the test?? my engineer EIT exam (now called FE, not EIT) was two sessions of 4 hours. we were tested on the whole spectrum of engineering and not just our own field of expertese. we were given a book with formulas. this was handy but you needed to know how to apply them, for instances i was electrical but i had to answer questions in fluid mechanics. for this, the book of formulas was very useful, and yes we were allowed a no communicationg calculator (no slide rules or abacasses required). but hey, we were diriving complex physics solutions. if the tested material is simple like 49/82 or some such approximation, then calcs should not be allowed since in this instance, it is a function of your brain's endurance and ability to apply what you already know. and this is how even the mcat is.

    when i took my IQ test, the test ran for only a moderate time. we needed to show how fast we could think through something. a test of endurance was never considered.

    at the end of the spectrum when your mind is pushed to its limits, some unpredictability may also occur. lately there have been a few cases of game players focusing on their games for 12+ hrs and dieing or having seisures.. this is really quite interesting, and should lend to more research of the mind. we know so little...

    :D
     
  16. masterMood

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    I think the point Tigress made about the many underqualified students going to college is definitely true. In the early 1990s, there was an explosion in the number of kids going to college because all of a sudden lower middle class to poor people realized, hey, if i go to colelge I will make +X more dollars than if i go into technical school or something else. I really think college is a load of bull unless you're studying for a science/engineering/math major...anything that is applicable for the matter. Too many kids think that their liberal arts degree will make them eleventy billion dollars, but in reality they will be probably paying it off for a large remainder of their lives. What we need to do is increase admission standards, shut down low-calibre schools (i.e. all the SUNYs except Binghamton/Stony Brook/Buffalo/Albany/Geneseo), and consequently make competition a lot more fierce.
     
  17. Slide

    Slide Finally, no more "training"
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    I agree; these days students go to college for the wrong reasons. I predict that if this trend keeps up in babying, we'll soon lose our technological superiority to other countries, especially the Asian ones like India, Taiwan, and South Korea.

    When my parents were kids in Taiwan, they were forced to work hard during school all the time. They would be tested weekly, and they would study hard every day. In the US, the SAT/ACT is just a factor in what college people go to; in Taiwan, the equivalent determines what college you will be able to attend, plain as that.

    Even though that process does have its inherent problems as well (a different story), the concept remains true. If we keep babying high schoolers and make things easier on them, when the time comes to put their skills down in a real life situation, they're not going to succeed. More and more jobs will go overseas, until the point that enough tech jobs in a certain country will surpass a critical point, and then that country will soon become autonomous in technology, and will become a fierce competitor (look what happened to US-Japan relations deaing with trade during the 60s and 70s). If you don't instill a hard work ethic before college, it's going to be hard on them down the road of life.
     
  18. cooldreams

    cooldreams American Mensa Member :)
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    soon lose it? we already have. we are holding on for the simple reason of past success and a large budget. most of the engineering graduates in OUR schools are from OTHER countries. they even get scholarships to come here since none of our students apply/qualify.
     
  19. Shredder

    Shredder User
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    :clap: ideal!

    the problem of the USA is just like a monopolist in business--no competition, leading to complacency. speculators say google may give microsoft a run for its money and benefit all consumers. similarly, will china be americas google? india? in a morbid way, wouldnt it be awesome to see a serious WW3 to witness all americans coming together to truly showcase americas power and unity? just like WW2. or would we falter in the face of our diversity and factions. i guess to some extent this has already been displayed in vietnam and iraq.
     
  20. masterMood

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    why do i get the premonition that a world war III could be really close in the next 10-30 years?
     
  21. Shredder

    Shredder User
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    i dont think so, somebody would pull out the nukes and all hell would break loose. i could see a civil war 2 though. america seems to be growing very divided. red south vs blue north? red interior flanked by blue coasts? racial tensions boiling over?
     
  22. Uh, you left out the part about walking 20 miles to the exam at the crack of dawn, barefoot in 2' of snow grandpa.
     
  23. ShyRem

    ShyRem I need more coffee.
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    and uphill both ways.
     
  24. CTSballer11

    CTSballer11 Senior Member
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    This country will never see another civil war. As far as Iraq goes, we have screwed it up big time and now we have no choice but to stay the course or countries like Iran, North Korea might be able to see our vunerability. it is very possible there may be a draft. Even the marine core is not meeting there monthly standards of new enlistments.
     
  25. I've heard this as well! Tigress, you wouldn't happen to remember the source of that report.. I'm really interested in reading (no pun intended) it. Thanks! :D
     
  26. Hurricane95

    Hurricane95 Senior Member
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    I agree with tigress and shredder on the OP's topic. It's incredible how big of an issue this has become. How much longer will we continue to dumb down college education in america? Seriously it's getting to the point where being a college grad really means very little...certainly less than it used to. People are graduating from major institutions without acquiring major skills needed in life. As a personal anecdote, my older brother is an engineer working at a major corp. in south florida and at work he deals with all types of people from other fields. The saddest thing he has seen so far is MBA-holding execs incapable of solving a percent profit problem...with a calculator and ample time...essentially they are incapable of "solving for x". Thats basic algebra. That's also pretty sad. Eventually if the trend continues all of the highly skilled positions will go to people overseas who are not babied in school and have the technical knowledge needed for these kinds of things. At UMiami, which is far from a top-end school for engineering, all of the grad students in engineering (and most of the professors for that matter) are internationals from china, india, southeast asia, the middle east, and south america. Most of them don't speak english, but they're damn good engineers. American undergrads aren't cutting it. I imagine the case must be similar at top-end schools like MIT, etc.

    This whole cutting the SAT down into bites that are easier to chew for our high school students is a load of crap. Excuse the language, but its true. Give me an effing break. Four hours too stressful? Come on. Haven't you heard? Teenagers are delicate things, careful if you shake them or stress them in the slightest they may break, physically and emotionally. Let's give them a high school diploma and hell, why not, a college degree on a silver platter, so as to not put them through the ordeal of earning them. That's much too hard. Sorry if I sound bitter guys, but as someone who has never had anything given to me for free and who has had to work his ass off to get to where I am it ticks me off whenever people complain and cry that the standards are too high and that students need to be babied EVEN further. I reacted the same way when the other day I found out the BME dept at UM is cutting classes for entering undergrads. Starting this year BMEs who declare themselves premed dont have to take any of the upper level electrical engineering courses I took...thats bull, if you dont want to take those classes which are vital for a BME grad then major in biology, there's the option...Im ranting, Ill stop now. Im sure at least a couple of you must agree. :rolleyes:
     
  27. Sophie

    Sophie Lead Foot
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    Not just college education has been dumbed down - when my brother was in 4th grade his school adopted a new style of teaching math. The gist of it was there are no wrong answers in math, and it's the process that counts, thus any student who thought about it hard enough and put in some effort to solve the problem was correct. That way no one feels bad.

    When I was in elementary school the principal told the parents that the classes went at the pace of the slowest kid, because they didn't want to leave anyone behind. All the lucky smart kids got to be tutors during regular class time to try to teach the slower kids. When my parents objected, the principal told them that the smart kids already had a natural advantage and there was no need to create a larger gap in the levels of the students. I learned almost nothing in school from 4th through 6th grades except that teaching is incredibly frustrating.

    In 7th grade the principal told the parents that the primary objective of junior high was to socialize the students. Kids left junior high in 9th grade scoring lower on the same standardized tests that they took when they came in as 7th graders, but they sure could interact with each other well.

    I in no way condone home-schooling (it made me miserable), but during the year that I home-schooled I had 4 hours of school per day and covered more than 2 years worth of public school curriculum easily. Once you take out all the crap like doing homework during class time, repeating things over and over and over for the kids who don't get it, and all the monotonous repetition, it's amazing how little time is spent actually learning.

    I think from first grade on students should take standardized tests, and how well they do on those tests should determine which schools they're allowed to go to. One test in 1st grade, one in 4th grade, one in 7th, and one in 10th. To stay at the top schools you have to keep performing in the top, and to rise from a lower school to a higher school you have to work your ass off. No coddling, and everyone is NOT equal.
     
  28. tigress

    tigress queen of the jungle
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    Here's the New York Times article, but not the actual report. I haven't had a chance to look for the report itself yet.

     
  29. tigress

    tigress queen of the jungle
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    I recently read an article about that type of math curriculum. The teachers aren't supposed to teach the children actual methods of problem-solving, but rather the theory behind the math, so the kids can figure out how to solve the problems themselves. So maybe they understand the concept of adding things together, but they're never taught how to carry into the tens place, for example. This article also quoted parents and students saying that this method doesn't work at all, and educators and administrators saying it does work. The high school kids quoted either said they were good at math because their parents taught them seperately at home, or, as others said, they went to college and were unable to do simple math that other students were capable of.

    That's pretty sad. I think it's sad when educational theory gets in the way of actually teaching kids basic skills. Don't get me wrong, I think there is probably some good stuff in modern educational theory, and certainly it's worth thinking about. But seriously, how intelligent does one have to be to recognize the stupidity in the above method of "teaching" math?
     
  30. masterMood

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    Hence the explosion in ADD/ADHD-related drugs. TV and computers have been a boon, but also a bane to society. TV/computers/video games are so visual and stimulating, that its hard to like reading. These are commodities that you don't see that much in 3rd world countries (although they are on the rise with affordable technology), but another factor which I think plays a huge role is divorce. No other country has a large rate of divorce and number of divorcees than the United States. A possible effect of this is that the mom or dad isn't there as much, giving the kid to do whatever the hell he wants. As a result, he watches more tv, gets stupid, and complains about the SAT. If you want to solve the problem, limit tv and computers early on in a kid's life and they'll probably be at the top of their class. Once you get addicted, it's hard to get off. Which reminds me now to sign off of SDN for now. :)
     
  31. Med-tallica

    Med-tallica Member
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    I don't want to sound uppity but I took the SAT earlier this year(05/05) and its really not that hard, I'm not speaking material wise. You get a few minutes woth of breaks between sections, and stretch/bathroom break. Compared only to what I've heard about the MCAT the SAT is barely a blip on the radar.
     
  32. Nikki2002

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    wow...this is weird......i think it just prolongs the stress.......i'd rather just do it all at once.
     

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