Scheduling question for Whisker Barrel & Voxel

[scully]

WBC and/or Voxel-

As the resident experts on radiology, I was hoping I could ask you a few questions. (I apologize in advance if you have addressed these before. I am truly lost without the search function!)

I read somewhere that to match in radiology, you should only schedule one or two radiology rotations for your third and fourth years. The rest of the time should be spent in Medicine, Surgery, etc... to get a good grounding. If this is the case, I am wondering how you would do a number of audition rotations to check out other programs? It seems like you would want to check out several other places.

Also, I know that this has been asked a million times before, but what is the final word on doing research in medschool -- is it required these days to get into a radiology residency? (Not necessarily a top-tier institution, but to stay in a certain desirable location.) Is the summer between 1st & 2nd year better than the elective research rotations that you can take 3rd and 4th year?

Any advice? Thanks!

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[LomaLindian]

Although I'm not Vox or Whisker, here goes...

First off, it all depends. If you have an excellent program at your medschool that you will rank number one, do outside rotations your fourth year before you do your inhouse elective. That way you will have the background knowledge to really wow your own program. If you want to look elsewhere for residency, do the opposite. Unless you are a medschool superstar, most programs just want to know why you are interested in there program above everyone else's (which can be shown through an elective done there) and can we work well together for four years. A lot of the interview process is how can you, the interviewee, get across that you really like and want to be part of the program.

Research in Rads is icing on the cake for most programs. For really high-powered, research driven university programs, research is a must (the exception being you are AOA, 260BS, etc., etc.) My advice to anyone wanting to do radiology is to spend some time doing research. If anything it'll help you get to know faculty at your institution, which can be a huge advantage. If I could do it over again--I would've done my research in rads and not heme. I think it would have only helped for the interview process.

Vox, whisk, any thoughts?

 

[LomaLindian]

BTW, I have been accepted for Rads and am currently being killed in the CCU as an IM-prelim. Oh if only Rads started PGY-1 instead of PGY-2 (should've ranked UNM higher

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

Honestly, I can't give you much advice on away radiology rotations because I didn't do any. I agree with Loma Lindan that it will at least show your interest in a program (especially helpful if you want to go far away from your med school). However, I have heard and experienced during my one and only radiology rotation that it is often very difficult to shine during a radiology month. One way might be to rotate in something like interventional or neuro or body for a whole month rather than a general radiology rotation like I did.

My fourth year schedule focused on clinical fields that I thought would help me in my radiology career and internship. I took pulmonary (learned a lot about CXR and chest CT), radiation oncology (not as useful as I thought), cardiology (for internship), ER (helpful for both), anatomy (reviewed cadaver, good for rads) as electives in addition to my rads and required medicine and surgery months. I gotta admit that having an easy second half was also a factor in my choice of rotations (I did not regret this one bit).

As for research, I don't think it is necessary to match in rads. However, as loma lindan said it will help, especially at university programs. I am pretty sure my MRI research was a big factor in my matching at my hospital because it is a research emphasis program. I did mine in between 1st an 2nd years but did not get published (did present a poster). If you do a research rotation, it will likely help and you can get a good letter from the attending you work with.

One last point. You don't need to rotate at a hospital to know what its like. You can often get a lot of information during interviews. With either route, there is a certain amount of uncertainty in rads programs since you will not be there until 1.5 years after you match and a lot may change. Some great programs lose multiple attendings all of the sudden and become less impressive becaue of the awesome private practice salaries and benefits these days.

Hope that wasn't too long winded. Good luck.

 

[univlad]

hey Whisker and others:
I'm curious about letters for radiology. I'll probaby use an IM letter and a letter from cardiology. If I signed up for research month in October would it be too late to get a letter out of that?

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

I got two of my letters from medicine attendings who knew me very well and one from a neurointerventional radiologist who I worked with for about a week during my rotation in August. My advisor (our program director) actually told me not even to bother with a radiology letter because he felt a radiology attending would not get to know you well enough to write a personal letter.

Obviously doing research with a radiologist will give the personal exposure you require. Unfortunately, I think October is pretty late to get a letter. You could probably pull it off if the attending writes the letter right away at the end of the month or in the middle of the month. My application was complete (except deans letter) by the beginning of October and I had already received several interview offers by mid October. It might be a good idea to get another letter from a clinical professor (surgery is a good option) now just in case your radiology one doesn't come in in time you could send in this one instead. With the large volume of applications received by many programs these days I have heard that the earlier you get your ERAS in the higher chance you have of getting invited for an interview.

Good luck. Maybe I'll see you at my program (if you're applying in the Midwest).

 

[scully]

Thank you very much LomaLindan and WBC! That was very helpful -- I appreciate your time.

It sounds like research is good, but not a requirement for community programs -- is that right? WBC, was your MRI research basic science physics research? Is there any such thing as clinical radiology research? The few radiologists doing alot of research at my school are doing projects which require a strong physics or engineering background (which is not me!) Do you think doing neurology research which involves using PET and MRI would be good enough?

 

[X Ray Vision]

Research for a community program is definitely not required.

As for the the Raddish Neuro research being "good enough", I don't know, but if it's available and it's more up your alley, you may as well do it.

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

scully,

My research was basic science, but not as involved in the physics of MRI. It involved the use of functional MRIs. The lab I was working in actually was not run by a radiologist, but a PhD in neuropsych research. It wasn't clinical at all but I got to learn a lot about fMRI and got to operate on rats (I still hadn't decided on rads and was considering neuology, medicine, and surgery).

When I interviewed, none of this was known by the programs. If they read closely in my ERAS they would see that it was under a different department, but no one mentioned it. They did express their interest in my research in about half of the programs I interviewed at.

I'd say that if the reserach projects in neurology have a strong aspect of imaging to them it will benefit you come application time. Most program directors realize there are not a whole lot of extremely physics oriented people in medical school. In fact, one of my interviewers told me about how one of the prior interviewees was too interested in basic science radiology research and asked if he could do some as a resident. He went on to say that with their clinical duties most residents will not have time to do these intensive research projects in basic science.

One more thing I'd say is that you don't have to be intimidated by the physics aspect of the radiologists research. If you find one that is willing to have you work with him/her then they will usually provide you the training and assistance you need.

Good luck.