School List. 3.9 gpa 34 MCAT

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volcomx

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I've gotten some mixed suggestions regarding retaking my MCAT. I took it in 2011, if that makes a difference. And I'm fairly confident I can do better. Anyways, after talking to some docs on admissions committees, it seems like it would be a good idea to retake.
 
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Retaking a 34 that has not "expired" is a bad idea. Of the three possible outcomes 2 hurt you and the third won't help much. There is also the potential taint of hubris.

I should probably explain my situation better. I applied a couple years ago which ended in waitlists. I applied to too many top tiers and late in the cycle. I talked to some of the deans of admissions and my interviewers. I asked them about retaking the MCAT and they said, if I thought I could do better, then go for it. This was the general reasoning:

Worst case scenario - I do worse. This is unlikely because on test day, if I feel like it's not happening, I always have the option of voiding.

Mediocre scenario - If I score the same, at least I will have showed that I was willing to try to improve as opposed to sitting on a 2 yr old test score.

Best scenario - I score a few points higher.
 
I should probably explain my situation better. I applied a couple years ago which ended in waitlists. I applied to too many top tiers and late in the cycle. I talked to some of the deans of admissions and my interviewers. I asked them about retaking the MCAT and they said, if I thought I could do better, then go for it. This was the general reasoning:

Worst case scenario - I do worse. This is unlikely because on test day, if I feel like it's not happening, I always have the option of voiding.

Mediocre scenario - If I score the same, at least I will have showed that I was willing to try to improve as opposed to sitting on a 2 yr old test score.

Best scenario - I score a few points higher.
The re-take includes opportunity cost. The MCAT is not (apparently) the weak point in your application. It is normal to want to repeat the things we are good at, but the return on this investment is very small.
 
I know it's just n=1, but I also was getting 36-38's on my practices and wound up with a 34 on mine. I know the feeling that you think you can do better, but like gyngyn said, is going from a 34 to a 36 really going to make a difference? We have the same stats and you have better EC's, and I got 10 interviews last cycle, so I really don't think you need to unless you're dead set on Harvard. LizzyM has said that there is a score that she actually counts it against you if you retake it (it might have been 34 or 36, I can't remember).
 
I know it's just n=1, but I also was getting 36-38's on my practices and wound up with a 34 on mine. I know the feeling that you think you can do better, but like gyngyn said, is going from a 34 to a 36 really going to make a difference? We have the same stats and you have better EC's, and I got 10 interviews last cycle, so I really don't think you need to unless you're dead set on Harvard. LizzyM has said that there is a score that she actually counts it against you if you retake it (it might have been 34 or 36, I can't remember).

This is the stigma of hubris to which I referred.
 
I should probably explain my situation better. I applied a couple years ago which ended in waitlists. I applied to too many top tiers and late in the cycle. I talked to some of the deans of admissions and my interviewers. I asked them about retaking the MCAT and they said, if I thought I could do better, then go for it. This was the general reasoning:

Worst case scenario - I do worse. This is unlikely because on test day, if I feel like it's not happening, I always have the option of voiding.

Mediocre scenario - If I score the same, at least I will have showed that I was willing to try to improve as opposed to sitting on a 2 yr old test score.

Best scenario - I score a few points higher.

I don't think scoring the same would work in your benefit so that mediocre scenario is still a poor outcome. You literally should only take this if you think you can score at least 2 points higher, preferably 3. Honestly unless you're dead set on top tier schools I would consider this move unnecessary. But if you want them, scoring a 36 or 37 would help you at least be at their averages (though consider that you'll be competing against students who got 36/37 their first time).
 
-Top tier undergraduate school
-3.9 sGPA, 3.85 cGPA
-34 MCAT, but retaking it (probable 36-39 based on AAMC practice tests)
-magna cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa

ECs as an undergrad:
-3 semesters of ugrad research, all separate PIs, no pubs
-2 summers of clinical research/shadowing
-inner city tutor for 2 semesters

ECs since graduating:
-NIH postbac research, 1 yr, 1 pub submitted, third author. Continuing through gap year.
-Health Disparity Workshop/Class at NIH ~40 hrs
-Started volunteering at community health clinic once a week in February. will continue through gap year


I know my ECs are a little lacking during undergrad. I tried to get involved a bit more this past year at the NIH, but it will still probably hinder my competitiveness at top tier schools, so I'm more or less leaving out the top 10 from my application.

Here's my list. Let me know if you think I should add/subtract any.

Upper Tier
Michigan
Sinai
Cornell
Northwestern
UCSD
Baylor
Columbia
Yale
Dartmouth
Emory
UT Southwestern

Middle Tier
Maryland
Tufts
UVA
Case Western
NYU
Einstein
BU
UCI
Keck
Stony Brook
UT Houston, Dallas, San Antonio

(Lower) tier
Albany
VCU
Temple
Drexel
EVMS
Hofstra

I do want to keep it around 30...as I definitely want to get in this application round....and in the end this medical school application is a numbers game. I think 30 should be enough? Is it too top heavy? Do you guys have any other suggestions for schools to add? Any other state schools that are open to OOS?

Applying to 30 will get you into medical school. I would predict you'll end up around the middle of your mid-tier list. Your extracurriculars are (very) weak, and if you do poorly on the retake you're screwed. Some of your top tier schools are actually mid-tier (or some of your mid-tier schools are top tier - your classification blurs a fair bit).

But if you apply early and get lucky/interview well, you could end up pretty much anywhere.
 
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I have a couple more minor EC's that I've added over this past year that I haven't mentioned due to the fact that it will make it extremely easy to identify me. But yes, overall my ECs are weak...especially since I did not get involved much during my undergraduate years.

I know my list is a little mixed up. I just tried to quickly sort them to make it (somewhat) easier to read.

To give further background, I applied to 12 schools two years ago and interviewed at 3. All three ended in waitlists, and all 3 are in my "middle tier" bracket.

Your scores are fine. I think that the potential gain of maybe 2 points on your MCAT will not significantly sway an adcom to choose you over 5000 other applicants. I would use the extra time to work on your ECs and perhaps pick up an interesting hobby. More community service is always a good idea as well.

You ideally want something that will set you apart from everyone else. It doesn't need to be mind-blowing, but as an interviewer I want to know that you have a life outside of medicine. If that means that you parasail in your free time, cool! Just my $0.02
 
I wouldn't retake if I were you. We have the same MCAT and you have a much better GPA. Our ECs are different, but equally strong I'd say. I applied to a similar group of schools with a late July submission date and have 3 acceptances: one school from each of your tiers. I'm also awaiting decisions from a school in your top tier and a school in your mid tier. What I'm basically saying is that I really don't see any reason why you would retake. My MCAT was consistently higher during my practice exams as well; you just never know how it will turn out.

Apply early and I'd predict a very successful cycle assuming you don't have any red flags. Your list is top heavy, but you are applying to enough schools where that doesn't really matter as long as you have the time/money. What is your state of residency? If it's CA you might want look into replacing the Texas schools and if it's Texas you might want to look into replacing UCI.
 
-Top tier undergraduate school
-3.9 sGPA, 3.85 cGPA
-34 MCAT, but retaking it (probable 36-39 based on AAMC practice tests)
-magna cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa

ECs as an undergrad:
-3 semesters of ugrad research, all separate PIs, no pubs
-2 summers of clinical research/shadowing
-inner city tutor for 2 semesters

ECs since graduating:
-NIH postbac research, 1 yr, 1 pub submitted, third author. Continuing through gap year.
-Health Disparity Workshop/Class at NIH ~40 hrs
-Started volunteering at community health clinic once a week in February. will continue through gap year


I know my ECs are a little lacking during undergrad. I tried to get involved a bit more this past year at the NIH, but it will still probably hinder my competitiveness at top tier schools, so I'm more or less leaving out the top 10 from my application.

Here's my list. Let me know if you think I should add/subtract any.

Upper Tier
Michigan
Sinai
Cornell
Northwestern
UCSD
Baylor
Columbia
Yale
Dartmouth
Emory
UT Southwestern

Middle Tier
Maryland
Tufts
UVA
Case Western
NYU
Einstein
BU
UCI
Keck
Stony Brook
UT Houston, Dallas, San Antonio

(Lower) tier
Albany
VCU
Temple
Drexel
EVMS
Hofstra

I do want to keep it around 30...as I definitely want to get in this application round....and in the end this medical school application is a numbers game. I think 30 should be enough? Is it too top heavy? Do you guys have any other suggestions for schools to add? Any other state schools that are open to OOS?

There's no such thing as UT Dallas, you're thinking of Southwestern, which is in Dallas. If you're already filling out TMDSAS, I'd say add in Galveston too.
 
I've already studied for a long time, and signed up for my test which will be in a few weeks. I think I'll go through with it, and if I don't feel very confident, I'll just void it. Since it's paid for, and I've already studied, I may as well take it. Perhaps I will get all the topics that I am confident in. Perhaps not. I'll take the chance and see.

I do have a few hobbies and sports that I will list in a single experience section on my amcas application. If I played varsity sports in high school, would it be okay to mention it in the same section even if I did not continue with them competitively during college?

To answer another question, I am neither a California resident nor Texas. My home state's medical school, ranked around 80 in US news, showed no interest last time. I am expecting the same this time.

In that case, I guess you might as well take it. It's hard to gauge how you do, but if you don't feel confident then voiding is certainly an option.

Did you play any sports in college (even intramurals)? If so, you can lump it all together in one section and just briefly mention that you played in high school.

If you're not a Cali resident, nix the Cali state schools. They are notoriously difficult to get into, even if you're from CA! OOS is very rare without an exceptional application or a big hook. You're aware that Texas has an entirely separate application process, right?
 
Intramural sports is where you compete for fun against other teams within your school right? It is less competitive than club sports correct? I did do an intramural sport, but not the same sport I did during high school.
 
Intramural sports is where you compete for fun against other teams within your school right? It is less competitive than club sports correct? I did do an intramural sport, but not the same sport I did during high school.

Yes and yes. If you'd consider intramurals as something that you enjoyed doing in college (i.e. you didn't just do one season and quit), then it might be worth placing on your application. I played on a couple teams each year, so I dedicated one of my 15 slots to intramurals as a whole. I don't remember if I added high school sports to it.

However, the general consensus is to avoid placing high school activities on your application unless you continued them in college. It really won't have much weight in medical school admissions.
 
"I should probably explain my situation better. I applied a couple years ago which ended in waitlists. I applied to too many top tiers and late in the cycle. I talked to some of the deans of admissions and my interviewers. I asked them about retaking the MCAT and they said, if I thought I could do better, then go for it. "

First of all, anyone will say that if you can do better, then go for it. But do realize that each MCAT is different, and the reasons likely for why you didn't get into a school was a combination of interviews and applying late. To me, those are more directed as you as a person: How you prepared your admissions cycle (applying late), and who you are during your interviews (maybe you didn't rock your interviews), and perhaps how you reflected on your activities (resume padding versus true commitment). Bar none, applying late is a HUGE detriment to one's application.

I wouldn't retake it.
 
I'd just like to point out that I never asked anyone's opinion on whether I should retake the MCAT. It was something I mentioned and people jumped on. Only I know how well (or poorly) I prepared for it the first time. Only I know how much I felt I could honestly improve. Yes, there is a bit of luck to the MCAT that is always out of our control, but since I was scoring significantly higher on practice tests, I went with my gut feeling and it paid off.

I'm not saying that retaking a 30+ is always advisable. If I studied for a month and scored a 34, I should not expect any improvement in a retake if I study the same amount again a year later. I completely revamped my studying methods and amount of time in the books.

People have generally given very helpful advice here on these forums, and I appreciate it a lot. I'm just pointing out that people should think for themselves occasionally and not blindly trust the advice given by strangers on an online forum.

I'm glad to see you improved your score and I have no doubt that such an enormous improvement will help you in the application process.

I will say, however, that I spoke to an adcomm at a very prestigious school who said that for her school and in general MCAT and GPA don't matter after a certain cutoff. It is softs that differentiate qualified students (ECs, research, PS, etc.) not scores. In fact the adcom said, verbatim, "We do not admit students without significant clinical experience".

For example, someone with many hours of shadowing and patients contact experience but with a 3.9 and 34 likely has an edge over you in the admissions process.

Don't get me wrong, you're set for an admit if you apply early and broadly but I think you overestimate the importance of numbers.
 
lol, as people have mentioned before, you're find as far as applying to higher tier schools. Honestly, the reason why I would care about the numbers so much is because it's truly diminishing returns. More effort placed into your ECs will make you SHINE way more than your numbers. Your numbers will not bar you from top tier schools taking a look at you.

And if you're saying schools are that focus on numbers, if anything then, you should focus on your ECs, because how the heck else are you going to show them that you're different than all the rest? Because once you're past that threshold/cutoff mark (which you most likely are), it's anything goes. Remember admissions committees like to diversify their matriculant pool, so it's not all GPA/MCAT as you make it seem. Try applying to medical schools and then having talks with adcoms after the admissions cycle. You might be surprised by what you hear.

Merit scholarships? Good luck. At top tier schools, that always doesn't happen. Think about it, there are plenty of other very qualified people for such things. And lastly, I've heard some merit scholarships just being several grand here and there.
 
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Is it true that most schools take the average of all valid mcat scores? So in OPs case, if he wants a 36 he needs to score a 38 to average out the 34, right?

The best, albeit unnecessary, thing to do would be to allow your 34 to expire, retake and hope to score a 36.

Otherwise, not worth a retake


EDIT: just noticed you already retook...lol
 
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Look man, I know that there are full-rides out there. I said some. I know friends who have gotten full rides and half rides, the works. And I get that you're trying to keep your doors open by having a higher mcat score, you're reducing the chances of being ruled out of a scholarship. I get it.

That being said, I think you may not be understanding my point. It's a diminishing returns. Not saying that a 34 versus a 39 is meaningless, but there's a lot of effort that goes into achieving that goal. Like the prep that goes into it, and ensuring you make that BIG jump from the 34 to the 39 that we're hypothetically saying, but even a 37 is still meaningful. Again, yes it could open doors for scholarships, but it also may not. If testing is where you feel is your ace up your sleeve, go ahead and retake the exam, by all means. Probably not what most here would do, but we play to our strengths.

I'm just saying that most people with your score would be content with their score and even those who who didn't get the score they wanted, most opted not to retake, at risk of lowering their score. That being said, seeing the optimism you have, I'm imagining that you are quite confident that you can score much better. Which is a good thing, if you choose to retake the MCAT. Again, I was not trying to make you defensive over the situation and I've been saying from the beginning that you're going to have a fair shot at all of the high tier schools. I just said that if it were me, I feel the greater bang for my buck would be on my ECs over the MCAT. Again, that's only my opinion.
 
Look man, I know that there are full-rides out there. I said some. I know friends who have gotten full rides and half rides, the works. And I get that you're trying to keep your doors open by having a higher mcat score, you're reducing the chances of being ruled out of a scholarship. I get it.

That being said, I think you may not be understanding my point. It's a diminishing returns. Not saying that a 34 versus a 39 is meaningless, but there's a lot of effort that goes into achieving that goal. Like the prep that goes into it, and ensuring you make that BIG jump from the 34 to the 39 that we're hypothetically saying, but even a 37 is still meaningful. Again, yes it could open doors for scholarships, but it also may not. If testing is where you feel is your ace up your sleeve, go ahead and retake the exam, by all means. Probably not what most here would do, but we play to our strengths.

I'm just saying that most people with your score would be content with their score and even those who who didn't get the score they wanted, most opted not to retake, at risk of lowering their score. That being said, seeing the optimism you have, I'm imagining that you are quite confident that you can score much better. Which is a good thing, if you choose to retake the MCAT. Again, I was not trying to make you defensive over the situation and I've been saying from the beginning that you're going to have a fair shot at all of the high tier schools. I just said that if it were me, I feel the greater bang for my buck would be on my ECs over the MCAT. Again, that's only my opinion.
We do play to our strengths. That's why everyone (myself included) has told the OP that increasing an already good MCAT score is a waste of energy. If he has a successful cycle he gets to decide if the re-take was the reason for his success. No one can prove otherwise. Even if we know that it will have no effect at our own institutions.
 
That being said, seeing the optimism you have, I'm imagining that you are quite confident that you can score much better. Which is a good thing, if you choose to retake the MCAT. Again, I was not trying to make you defensive over the situation and I've been saying from the beginning that you're going to have a fair shot at all of the high tier schools. I just said that if it were me, I feel the greater bang for my buck would be on my ECs over the MCAT. Again, that's only my opinion.

I already retook and increased from a 34-39. It took a month of hardcore studying, but it didn't stop me from continuing with ECs and my full time research job.

To reply to gyngyn, I believe the increased MCAT score will help my reapplication; I don't think it will be the deciding factor though.
 
I agree with you almost completely, which is why I've done more than just retake the MCAT over the past two years. I've addressed and improved every aspect of my application, from clinical volunteering to research and now to my MCAT score.

There is no doubt that someone with a 3.9 and 34 and a deep exposure to medicine and a commitment to volunteering will be highly successful in their application. But I can guarantee you that an applicant with those extracurriculars plus a better MCAT will fare even better, and may even have a shot at merit scholarships. Look at the 10%-90% MCAT ranges for top schools. To take an extreme school, look at WUSTL. 34-41, 3.7-4. Half the class has an MCAT score 38+, and a GPA 3.9+. More hours of clinical exposure and volunteering can't make up for a 3.6 and a 33. You need incredibly exceptional extracurriculars, life stories, or boosts from URM status. I have none of the above.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that every component of the application matters and should be treated as such - anything that can be improved should. I felt the MCAT was something I could improve. It took some studying, but it wasn't like I put my full time research job and volunteering and life on hold for it.

Think about it this way. People get in all the time with 3.5 GPAs and 33. Does that mean someone should just aim for a 3.5 and 33 and focus on ECs? If a 3.5 and 33 were "good enough," then why don't top schools accept more applicants around those scores? Why is the median so much higher? It's a competitive system, and every point matters.

Solid logic. I wish you the best this cycle!
 
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