MD School List Help! (cGPA 3.93, sGPA 3.94, 513 -> 526 MCAT retake 5 months apart)

[razurvoic08]

Hi everyone, hope you all are well! I am at that point in my pre-cycle preparation where I am ready to build a school list and would really love some guidance. Here is some more information about me below:

Personal Identifiers: ORM (Asian female), do not consider myself disadvantaged

State of Residence: Not from CA, NY, PA, TX, or any state with many in state medical schools. Would rather not disclose, but will be applying to my state school (there is only 1).

Graduate Institution: T10 institution (would rather not disclose)
Graduate degrees: B.S. Cellular Biology and Public Health (2020)

GPA
sGPA: 3.94
cGPA: 3.93

MCAT Scores:
8/8/20: 513 (130/126/130/127) = 87%
1/25/21: 526 (132/130/132/132) = 100%

Reasons for retaking: The week before my exam my aunt and her husband passed away due to covid. These events affected me a lot. However, they are not excuses for my performance (relative to my AAMC practice FL avg = 521), but rather reasons I should have made the mature decision to take a mental/emotional break and reschedule my exam for a later date instead of letting the pressure of applying in the 2021 cycle take over. When I got my score back the first time, I knew had a decent score, but after much consideration (reading SDN, reddit, talking to friends, family, and advisers), I felt confident that I should postpone my cycle and retake for a higher score: both to give myself the best chance possible as an applicant in 1 shot and also for that much needed mental/emotional break.

Research:
Cancer research lab:

1. Project with postdoc that laid the groundwork for my understanding of research and led to an observation from which the idea for my independent project began (also acknowledged in pub - I don’t think that really counts though) - 1 1/2 years, 450 hours
2. Independent cancer research project: designed, led, and collaborated with a team -> won $4000 grant and presented a poster (1st author) for my honors thesis - 2 years, 1500 hours (my lab is continuing this project even though I am not allowed to go in due to covid)
3. 1 Abstract to AACR (3rd author)
4. Working remotely on 2 papers that are close to submission with my PI (Co-author for both with my PI)

Public and Global health center:

1. Co-founder and Leader for a public health research project in partnership with an international grass roots CBO —> won $6000 grant - 4 years, 2000+ hours (and continuing…)

Clinical Volunteering:

1. Patient advocate: followed long-term care of patients’ social determinants of health (housing, food, medical insurance, transportation, etc) - 1 1/2 years, 360 hours
2. HIV/HCV Counselor - couple months 32 hours (cut short due to Covid)

Non-clinical volunteering:

1. GED Tutor for veterans who are recovering from addiction or experiencing homelessness - 3 years, 320 hours
2. Career Readiness instructor and intern for a CBO that works with Black youth affected by the criminal justice system (themselves or family) - 8 months, 700 hours

Physician shadowing:
Oncologist - 100 hours
Colorectal Surgeon - 80 hours
Trauma Care Specialist - 20 hours
Surgical Oncologist - 20 hours
Breast Surgeon - 60 hours

Extracurricular activities:

1. Cultural Dance performance opportunity with a professional team to support an international women's org - 4 months, 70 hours
2. Cultural Dance team (1 year member, 3 years captain) - 4 years, 1800 hours
3. Student-led mental health organization through the counseling center (peer listener and exec board member) - 2 1/2 years, 250 hours
4. Religious Organization - 4 years, 200-ish hours
5. Writer for a science in society magazine - 1 year, 60 hours
6. Delta Omega National Honors Society (for Public Health faculty and students)

Gap year plans:

1. Full time clinical job: with covid and studying for MCAT, I really miss working in a clinical setting and hope to find something soon (any advice would be much appreciated on types of clinical jobs to look for!)
2. Passion project in conjunction with a few health professionals

LOR: 2 science professors, 1 non-science professor, cancer research PI, public health project PI, Patient advocate supervisor, CBO supervisor

As for a school list, I am aiming to apply to between 25-30 schools (including my state school) and am mainly struggling due to the vast difference between my 2 MCAT scores. GPA and MCAT tend to be the easiest ways to short list schools and I’m not sure if I should be A) choosing some schools around my first score and some around my second score, B) choosing schools around the average of my scores (519.5), or C) mainly choosing schools around my most recent score (526). Lastly, a few details I have been considering when looking at schools is that I have a good amount of research experience that I would like to continue + I am very public health/community health/preventative medicine focused (also ties in with my app narrative)) and do plan to complete an MD/MPH before applying to residency.

I have a few questions I’m considering as well:

• Can I afford to apply top heavy and if so, how top heavy/what split? I would really love to, but again unsure of how a retake will measure up at those schools/how they view my 2 scores.
• What is the rule to determine if a school is OOS friendly? I am currently using > 25% of matriculants are OOS according to MSAR. Still hung up on schools like USC, UNC, and UCSD which I just love for their public health focus but working on letting them go for schools I have a better chance at.
• Are there any schools I should avoid due to yield protection (especially due to retaking a 513 MCAT)?
• Should I apply to DO schools?

Here is a rough list:
Harvard
Stanford
JHU
UPenn
Columbia
NYU
UCLA
UCSF
UChicago
Duke
Yale
Mayo
GW or Georgetown
UMich
UPitt
Boston University
Tufts
Albert Einstein
Ohio State
Emory
UMass
USF Health Morsani
OHSU
Drexel
State School (there is only 1)

Thank you for reading and for any guidance you can provide!

@Goro @gyngyn @Faha @LizzyM : I would really appreciate to hear your thoughts, if you have some time - thank you in advance!

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[Banco]

I would just average your scores, in which case you still have a top tier application. Impressive score increase honestly.

So I think you should aim for top tier (10-15 schools) but have ~10 mid tiers/safeties/state schools thrown in too.

Not sure how high yield OHSU or UMass will be for you. I think you're fine to apply to USC and UCSD if you'd like.

 

[Goro]

• 1) Can I afford to apply top heavy and if so, how top heavy/what split? I would really love to, but again unsure of how a retake will measure up at those schools/how they view my 2 scores.

1) Yes

• 2) What is the rule to determine if a school is OOS friendly? I am currently using > 25% of matriculants are OOS according to MSAR. Still hung up on schools like USC, UNC, and UCSD which I just love for their public health focus but working on letting them go for schools I have a better chance at.

2) Nearly all private schools are OOS friendly. It may not appear that way as several states, like CA, and lot sof highly talented and competetive applicants. It's state schools that favor the home team. As such, OHSU will be a donation.

• Are there any schools I should avoid due to yield protection (especially due to retaking a 513 MCAT)?

On your list, Drexel, GWU and Gtown. And it's resource protection, not yield protection.

• Should I apply to DO schools?

I'd love to have you at my school, but realstically, no need for DO given your app.

Here is a rough list:
Harvard
Stanford
JHU
UPenn
Columbia
NYU
UCLA
UCSF
UChicago
Duke
Yale
Mayo
GW or Georgetown
UMich
UPitt
Boston University
Tufts
Albert Einstein
Ohio State
Emory
UMass
USF Health Morsani
OHSU
Drexel
State School (there is only 1)

Thank you for reading and for any guidance you can provide!

@Goro @gyngyn @Faha @LizzyM : I would really appreciate to hear your thoughts, if you have some time - thank you in advance!

I recommend the following:

NYU
Columbia
WashU
Vanderbilt
Yale
JHU
U Chicago
U Penn
Northwestern
Harvard
Mayo
Cornell
Stanford
Case
Duke
Sinai
U VA
BU
Baylor
UCSF
Pitt
USC/Keck
UCSD
UCLA
U MI
Rochester
Hofstra
Ohio State
U Cincy
UTSW
Dartmouth
Western MI
USF Morsani
SUNY-SB
Brown
U MA
U IA
Albert Einstein
Emory
Tufts
NYU-LI
Jefferson
Miami
SLU
U WI
U CO
U VM
Your state school

 

[Deecee2DO]

Are you human? Just wow. Congrats to you for having the best medical school app I think Ive ever seen. HMS and JHU will be fighting over you

 

[razurvoic08]

I would just average your scores, in which case you still have a top tier application. Impressive score increase honestly.

So I think you should aim for top tier (10-15 schools) but have ~10 mid tiers/safeties/state schools thrown in too.

Not sure how high yield OHSU or UMass will be for you. I think you're fine to apply to USC and UCSD if you'd like.

Hi @Banco ! Thank you for taking the time to read and respond.

I will definitely make sure to average my scores when looking through MSAR/shortlisting schools and thank you - I wasn't expecting that much of an increase honestly (closer to +7 or so points) and just feel thankful and lucky I was able to pull it off somehow. That split (15-10) sounds about what I was thinking, so good to hear confirmation!

And yup, double checked and it seems OHSU really favors in state (like Goro also mentioned). UMass could be fine but I might swap it for another mid-tier school I fit better with in terms of mission. Will reconsider USC and UCSD as well. Thank you again!

 

[razurvoic08]

Hi @Goro ! Really appreciate you taking the time to read through, respond to all my questions, and compile such a thorough list!

2) Nearly all private schools are OOS friendly. It may not appear that way as several states, like CA, and lot sof highly talented and competetive applicants. It's state schools that favor the home team. As such, OHSU will be a donation.

Thank you for this rough rule to follow and I will definitely keep your point in mind when looking at OOS acceptance for CA, NY, etc schools. OHSU is off the list ☑️

On your list, Drexel, GWU and Gtown. And it's resource protection, not yield protection.

Apologies - thank you for the term correction! Do you have any thoughts regarding resource protection for the following schools as well?
- Quinnipiac
- Wake Forest
- Rosalind Franklin
- Loyola Chicago Stritch
- Rush
- Albany
- Temple
- Virginia Commonwealth
- Tulane (great PH program)
- U Minnesota (great PH program)
- U Washington (great PH program)

I recommend the following:

NYU
Columbia
WashU
Vanderbilt
Yale
JHU
U Chicago
U Penn
Northwestern
Harvard
Mayo
Cornell
Stanford
Case
Duke
Sinai
U VA
BU
Baylor
UCSF
Pitt
USC/Keck
UCSD
UCLA
U MI
Rochester
Hofstra
Ohio State
U Cincy
UTSW
Dartmouth
Western MI
USF Morsani
SUNY-SB
Brown
U MA
U IA
Albert Einstein
Emory
Tufts
NYU-LI
Jefferson
Miami
SLU
U WI
U CO
U VM
Your state school

This is a great list and actually very similar to the list I have shortlisted thus far (my list has ~15 more schools in addition right now that I need to take off)! Time to dig deep into school websites and admission statements to shortlist further. Also, just to confirm: U VM = University of Vermont? UTSW = UT Southwestern? On that point, I read that Texas schools are required to only accept 10% OOS so wasn't sure if I should include UTSW and Baylor (which is moving to TMDSAS as of this coming cycle I believe)?

Would you reckon 15-17 top schools + 8-10 mid-tier/my state schools from this list would be a solid plan?

Thank you again!

 

[razurvoic08]

Are you human? Just wow. Congrats to you for having the best medical school app I think Ive ever seen. HMS and JHU will be fighting over you

Hahaha this comment made me smile - thank you for the kind words! Just hoping for the best this cycle

 

[Deecee2DO]

Hahaha this comment made me smile - thank you for the kind words! Just hoping for the best this cycle

Absolutely! You clearly worked for it. Good luck and keep us updated on where you get accepted. From here on out you will be part of elite medical institutions which one that will be idk but always remember to stay humble and remember where you came from. Thats the best advice I can give you as a lowly MS3

 

[Goro]

Apologies - thank you for the term correction! Do you have any thoughts regarding resource protection for the following schools as well?
- Quinnipiac
- Wake Forest
- Rosalind Franklin
- Loyola Chicago Stritch
- Rush
- Albany
- Temple
- Virginia Commonwealth
- Tulane (great PH program)
- U Minnesota (great PH program)
- U Washington (great PH program)

State schools favor the home team. Hence, delete U WA and U MN
Rest of the school list is fine

This is a great list and actually very similar to the list I have shortlisted thus far (my list has ~15 more schools in addition right now that I need to take off)! Time to dig deep into school websites and admission statements to shortlist further. Also, just to confirm: U VM = University of Vermont? UTSW = UT Southwestern? On that point, I read that Texas schools are required to only accept 10% OOS so wasn't sure if I should include UTSW and Baylor (which is moving to TMDSAS as of this coming cycle I believe)?

Would you reckon 15-17 top schools + 8-10 mid-tier/my state schools from this list would be a solid plan?

Thank you again!

I can't recommend the TX schools and I don't know how they'll view the 2x taking. Best to avoid crap shoots.

 

[razurvoic08]

@gyngyn @Faha @LizzyM : I would still really appreciate hearing your thoughts if you have some time, so tagging you just this once more in case - thank you in advance!

 

[gyngyn]

@gyngyn @Faha @LizzyM : I would still really appreciate hearing your thoughts if you have some time, so tagging you just this once more in case - thank you in advance!

Delete GW, GT, USF and Drexel.

 

[razurvoic08]

Delete GW, GT, USF and Drexel.

Thank you for your advice!!

 

[razurvoic08]

Hi! I just wanted to start off with a disclaimer that I sincerely hope this post does not sound neurotic as it is coming from a place of genuine concern.

In May - end of July this year, my family suffered many losses due to the COVID-19 pandemic worsening in India. During this time, I was unable to focus on pre-writing, and so submitted my primary to schools in waves to avoid feeling overwhelmed all at once. Most of my completion dates range between late August - mid September (as seen below). I have seen a wide variety of definitions on what is considered early/on-time/late for submission on SDN and I would really appreciate some clarification on how my chances will be affected by my completion dates considering I am aiming pretty high.

So far, I have received an II from Hofstra on 9/9/21.

School	Date Received	Submit Date
State School	7/19/21	8/3/21
~First Wave~
Harvard	8/6/21	8/24/21
UPenn	8/6/21	8/24/21
Albert Einstein	8/6/21	8/25/21
Columbia	8/6/21	8/26/21
UChicago Pritzker	8/7/21	8/22/21
WashU	8/7/21	8/23/21
Hofstra/Northwell	8/9/21	8/22/21
Rochester	8/9/21	8/22/21
Weill Cornell	8/9/21	8/23/21
Pittsburgh	8/9/21	8/26/21
Virginia (UVA)	8/9/21	8/28/21
UCSF	9/13/21	9/14/21
~Second Wave~
University of Michigan	8/28/21	9/6/21
UCLA	8/28/21	9/6/21
Icahn Mt Sinai	8/29/21	9/6/21
Case Western/CCLM	8/29/21	9/11/21
Northwestern Feinberg	8/30/21	9/6/21
Boston (BU)	8/30/21	9/6/21
Vanderbilt	8/30/21	9/11/21
Yale	8/31/21	9/12/21
~Third Wave~
Stony Brook	9/7/21	9/11/21
Duke	9/7/21	9/16/21
Stanford	9/7/21	9/11/21
NYU Grossman	9/7/21	9/11/21
Emory	9/7/21	9/13/21
Brown Warren Alpert	9/9/21	9/11/21
Johns Hopkins	9/13/21	9/15/21

Thank you in advance! @LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn @gonnif

 

[Goro]

List is top heavy, but I expect that you'll be getting a number of IIs.

 

[razurvoic08]

List is top heavy, but I expect that you'll be getting a number of IIs.

Your timing of secondaries is unlikely to have any impact on your chances

Thank you for the clarification and putting some of my concerns to ease! It's just been on my mind as I see a lot of people receiving IIs. However, I realize that I have only just submitted my application and need to be practicing some patience right now.

 

[razurvoic08]

I always tell students It can easily take for 1 to 4 months (4 to 16 weeks) After your application is marked completed (AMCAS, MCAT, Letters and secondary) To be prioritized, queued, evaluated, and reviewed before an interview invite is sent out. I would imagine with another year of application numbers being up (meaning each school is getting a higher number of applications Submitted) it could take even longer.

I also tell all students to continue enhancing the record so they can be Improved for a Reapplication

Got it, thank you! And of course, I plan to continue the work I'm doing currently throughout this year!