Jun 2, 2019
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I've read the applicant guide and it still doesn't make sense. I know that you do not need to have a finalized school list when you submit the primary app, but I don't get how this works.

If I submit my primary app for verification, with a list of schools on it, does it automatically apply me to those schools? Or, upon verification, will I receive an additional "actually apply now" type notification to finalize and send to that school list? Should I just not have any schools listed when I first submit?

I have a list of schools I feel good about after reviewing myself and with friends and family and my advisers, but I also want to post it on here and r/premed before truly sending it to those schools. If I submit my primary app for verification now, will I not be able to remove schools from it? Will I be charged and, at minimum, have to apply to those schools listed upon my "verification" submission?
 

texasvandy

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You will need to pay the fee listed when you submit. So you want your list to be accurate. You can submit for verification with just one school and you can keep adding more after submitting.
 
OP
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Jun 2, 2019
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You will need to pay the fee listed when you submit. So you want your list to be accurate. You can submit for verification with just one school and you can keep adding more after submitting.
If this is the setup, why don't people always do this to buy time for secondaries? Just submit with 1, add the others the day before the first transmission, get maximum time for secondaries while still being in the first batch...the best of all worlds
 

MemeLord

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If this is the setup, why don't people always do this to buy time for secondaries? Just submit with 1, add the others the day before the first transmission, get maximum time for secondaries while still being in the first batch...the best of all worlds
Because the type of people that are Day 1 submitters are already writing secondaries based on prior year’s prompts.
 
Feb 26, 2019
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If this is the setup, why don't people always do this to buy time for secondaries? Just submit with 1, add the others the day before the first transmission, get maximum time for secondaries while still being in the first batch...the best of all worlds
We don’t get the secondaries until after transmission anyway...
 

gonnif

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Okay, I think I will just leave my state school for now and add after getting more list feedback. Thanks!
Just checking that you are not waiting for an MCAT score and applied to a school you want to attend, not a throw away school
 

gonnif

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We don’t get the secondaries until after transmission anyway...
That is not entirely correct
When you AMCAS submit with list of schools and your primary application is ready to review (ie in verification queue), an electric notification is sent to all listed schools to expect/open file for this applicant. Your name AMCAS ID, email address are sent to schools at that time. Some schools will send you a secondary from this information alone. It is possible to receive, complete, and return a secondary to a school before your primary is transmitted

So secondaries can be sent
1) pre-transmission unscreened
2) automated immediate post transmission unscreened
3) automated with minimal screening criteria (basic GPA MCAT cutoffs)
4) with minor to major screening
5) after full primary eval and/or II
6) staggered in a rankng system or simply to even workflow of school
 
Feb 26, 2019
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That is not entirely correct
When you AMCAS submit with list of schools and your primary application is ready to review (ie in verification queue), an electric notification is sent to all listed schools to expect/open file for this applicant. Your name AMCAS ID, email address are sent to schools at that time. Some schools will send you a secondary from this information alone. It is possible to receive, complete, and return a secondary to a school before your primary is transmitted

So secondaries can be sent
1) pre-transmission unscreened
2) automated immediate post transmission unscreened
3) automated with minimal screening criteria (basic GPA MCAT cutoffs)
4) with minor to major screening
5) after full primary eval and/or II
6) staggered in a rankng system or simply to even workflow of school
Thanks for the information! I personally have not received any secondaries yet even though my application has been verified and contains my entire school list.
 
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texasvandy

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Thanks for the information! I personally have not received any secondaries yet even though my application has been verified and contains my entire school list.
This is surprising. Have you read the previous year threads on those schools to see how they issue secondaries? It is very rare that not a single one has issued secondaries after verification.
 
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MemeLord

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This is surprising. Have you read the previous year threads on those schools to see how they issue secondaries? It is very rare that not a single one has issued secondaries after verification.
I have a similar school list to Embryo and I have not received any secondaries either.
 
Feb 26, 2019
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This is surprising. Have you read the previous year threads on those schools to see how they issue secondaries? It is very rare that not a single one has issued secondaries after verification.
AFAIK, the earliest secondaries (for schools on my list) get sent out after transmission, not after verification.
 
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Just checking that you are not waiting for an MCAT score and applied to a school you want to attend, not a throw away school
I have my MCAT score and I don’t believe in “throwaway” schools. I ended up applying to 6 schools I would be fine with going to in my “first submission”.

Because I am aware that some schools send secondaries after receiving a notification that you listed them on the primary, and will send those secondaries you you before even receiving your primary, my new plan is to wait until June 27th before adding the rest of my school list (20+ schools). I will also be pre-writing secondaries until that time. This way, I will have maximized time to pre-write secondaries while also being in the first batch of transmission. Does this make sense/is my understanding of the process accurate/if so, is this a legitimate plan?
 
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Because the type of people that are Day 1 submitters are already writing secondaries based on prior year’s prompts.
So am I, but I want the maximum amount of time to finish pre-writing. Essentially, I want to be in the first batch with the most amount of time. So my mentality is that if some schools send secondaries prior to screening, why would I send my application for verification with my full list and start that clock early? I might as well send it for verification with a redacted list, then once I’m verified, add the rest of my list the day before transmission.

Aka, still be in the first batch while also maximizing time for pre-writing secondaries. Does that make sense? Am I missing something?
 

gonnif

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I have my MCAT score and I don’t believe in “throwaway” schools. I ended up applying to 6 schools I would be fine with going to in my “first submission”.

Because I am aware that some schools send secondaries after receiving a notification that you listed them on the primary, and will send those secondaries you you before even receiving your primary, my new plan is to wait until June 27th before adding the rest of my school list (20+ schools). I will also be pre-writing secondaries until that time. This way, I will have maximized time to pre-write secondaries while also being in the first batch of transmission. Does this make sense/is my understanding of the process accurate/if so, is this a legitimate plan?
Makes no sense whatsoever:
1. whether you add additional schools now or wait until 27th, the vast majority schools dont Send secondaries until until after transmission so this gains you nothing
2. What “clock” are you trying the beat? Some perceived idea that you must return secondaries by some cut off date else you will be rejected? do you think that any school will be reading these before mid July?
3. Applications are rarely evaluated and reviewed in chronological order. Applicants are pushed forward in process as superstars, alumni, linked programs, URM, etc

Every year I get applicants who think they have a way to game the system and waste more time thinking about it, posting way too many comments on SDN, instead of just applying.

AMCAS 2018 Timeline Summary (post count #021)
-AMCAS May 2, 2017, Primary application opens up. Can send formal requests for transcripts from your schools and letter requests to your letter writers.
-AMCAS June 1, 2017, Completed primary applications with all ECs, PS, and course information can be submitted . You enter the verification queue only when both primary application and all transcripts have been received.
-AMCAS June 30, 2017, begins transmission verified applications until late June (though some schools have secondaries sent to contact info upon submission to AMCAS)
-Verification peak is about August 1st and takes 20 days
-Most Primary Apps are transmitted early July thru early September
-Secondaries timelines can vary widely as to when to they are sent out from almost immediately upon submissions to 3 months, though most are in the range 1-3 weeks after transmission.
-Letters via AMCAS are processed/transmitted separately from primary
-Letters can be added after primary has been submitted and transmitted and are mostly not needed until secondary reviews at the earliest.
-Application and candidate evaluations timeline varies widely by school may not done in a linear, chronological order. EDP, High achievers, URM, family of alumni, feeder schools, associated UG programs, linked postbaccs, and other factor may push an app forward in the process.
-Most adcoms dont start meeting for review of evaluated applicants until at least mid-August, more likely September, though some reviews may be done earlier for groups mentioned above.
-Submitting Primary Application June is Early, July Medium, August Late
-Having Primary verified and transmitted to school by end of August is normal speed
-Having Secondary and all LORs complete to school by Labor Day is early. By late or end of September is about normal speed, by end of October is about late.
--After that point you will generally start getting impacted by the number of applications submitted, the finite number of interview slots, and seats given by rolling admissions. This isnt an absolute date nor is it a fixed timeline. It should be used as a guideline

Getting primary in on time does matter because of all the other items that follow it. But applicants often see the beginning and not understanding how it flows from there. Additionally, how each school then opens a file, reviews them on GPA, MCAT, and other factors, and what order they wind up in a queue has less to do with when the primary arrives then when the secondary is completed and received. Since the majority of schools, I dare say, send out pre-transmission, unscreened, or minimal cut off screened secondaries, this is probably a larger factor in where you wind up in the queue for 1) reading an application and 2) decision on interview invite. As I have said previously, and will undoubtedly say dozens of time during this 2018 application cycle (see count above) review of apps is not simply done in a linear chronological order. High achievers, URM, family of alumni, feeder schools, associated UG programs, linked postbaccs, and other factor may push an app forward in the process.
 
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Makes no sense whatsoever:
1. whether you add additional schools now or wait until 27th, the vast majority schools dont Send secondaries until until after transmission so this gains you nothing

Since the majority of schools, I dare say, send out pre-transmission, unscreened, or minimal cut off screened secondaries

Additionally, how each school then opens a file, reviews them on GPA, MCAT, and other factors, and what order they wind up in a queue has less to do with when the primary arrives then when the secondary is completed and received.
Aren’t those first 2 quotes contradictory statements? I’ve seen your post multiple times, I was basing my thought process on it. Idrc about “beating” the clock as much as I do delaying it from starting.

My question is simple: do the majority of schools send out pre-transmission secondaries when applicable?

I don’t really care about being the first send in my primary. I do care about secondary turn-around, because as you said on your post, the secondary timing is more important than the primary’s. However, you also seem to say on these threads that the “2 week” turnaround time that people talk about is a farce. So perhaps this is why you say the strategy is pointless?
 

gonnif

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No they dont. The majority send out post transmission/unscreened

My whole point in my statement above if you read the rest was unscreened/minimal screen vs screened. Pre-transmission are just part of unscreened
 
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No they dont. The majority send out post transmission/unscreened

My whole point in my statement above if you read the rest was unscreened/minimal screen vs screened. Pre-transmission are just part of unscreened
Okay, understood.

And to be clear, you are saying that secondary timing is more important than primary timing, but at the end of the day as long secondaries are in before Labor Day one would be in the clear b/c of the inevitable favoritism given to superstars, feeders etc that delays the reading of other secondaries/applications...is this correct as well?
 

gonnif

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Okay, understood.

And to be clear, you are saying that secondary timing is more important than primary timing, but at the end of the day as long secondaries are in before Labor Day one would be in the clear b/c of the inevitable favoritism given to superstars, feeders etc that delays the reading of other secondaries/applications...is this correct as well?
I am saying that being complete at any school for by Labor Day for any candidate essentially removes any impact of timing as a factor in consideration. Being complete by this date allows you to be evaluated and reviewed prior to Thanksgiving, which is optimal window for this. For most solid candidates at most schools other then the highly selective top 1/4-1/3 tier, being complete by Late September would also have little impact of timing in consideration. All of this is subjective and should be considered guidelines.
 
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