School Shootings / Violence Discussion

[Therapist4Chnge]

3. There is an important mental illness case being heard today at the U.S. Supreme. Scott Pannetti suffers from Schizoprhenia. He kiled his in-laws in fromt of his ex-wife and kids. He was found compentent to stand trial but the new question is was he competent when sentenced to death to understand why he is being sentenced to death. Can a mentall ill person be allowed Constitutionally to be executed if he/she can not undertsand why? Pannetti had actually represented himself in the earlier trial. He wore a cowboy suit and subpoenaed (spelling?) the Pope and President Kennedy (needless to say, neither showed up).

http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2007/04/the_legal_spagh.html

I just heard about this, I think it will be a VERY important ruling.

I believe the APA, A(Psychiatric)A, and AMA all came together to support the defendant.

-t

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[NYCPsych]

Today I saw someone reading the NYPost in the subway, glanced at the front page, and was enraged. I wrote a letter to the editor & thought I'd share it here!

"Shame on your publication for choosing to brand your front page with the word "psycho" in capital letters on 4/18/07. What happened in Virginia is horrific, and Cho Seung-Hui was clearly very mentally ill. I'm hardly justifying his actions; however, the uneducated use of this antiquated language confirms the national stigma towards those suffering from mental illness. Your word choice was offensive, and only contributes to the violence sweeping through the country."

 

[amy203]

Today I saw someone reading the NYPost in the subway, glanced at the front page, and was enraged. I wrote a letter to the editor & thought I'd share it here!

"Shame on your publication for choosing to brand your front page with the word "psycho" in capital letters on 4/18/07. What happened in Virginia is horrific, and Cho Seung-Hui was clearly very mentally ill. I'm hardly justifying his actions; however, the uneducated use of this antiquated language confirms the national stigma towards those suffering from mental illness. Your word choice was offensive, and only contributes to the violence sweeping through the country."

It's wonderful that you did this!

I think it's interesting that most media reports are very careful to specify that this incident should not lead to stigmatization against people based on race or immigration status, but I have yet to see any reports caution against stimitization of the mentally ill.

 

[misskatie]

2. We have been wondering what the role of psychologists should be to prevent and deal with violence and tragedy at schools. Most of the comments point to dealing with the victims, trying to get at sick students/ people early before they kill, and to toughen various laws. After reading more news of the VTech situation, I think that perhaps the average lay person (non-trained mental health worker) needs to be trained/ informed as to what to do when confronting mental instability. This might be the place to start early intervention in schools and society at large. This link shows that Cho's room mate, professors, and fellow students all thought he was a basket case but no one did anything. Is this some sort of variant of the famous bystander effect - I do not have to act because someone else will? I beleive that most information shows that almost no one goes on a killing spree or kills themself without putting out warning signs (for example, if someone we all happened to know, started making bizaare/ delusional references to sock puppets, should we act or just sit back and find it amusing?).

I thought about this last night after watching the AC360 interview with the two roommates. But, what should they have done? As has already been discussed, students can't be forced to go to the university's counseling center. Also, without criminal behavior, there's not much the authorities can do. I am by no means criticizing your opinion as I certainly keep thinking, something should have been done. I'm just looking for insight as to what?

 

[GiantSteps]

I thought about this last night after watching the AC360 interview with the two roommates. But, what should they have done? As has already been discussed, students can't be forced to go to the university's counseling center. Also, without criminal behavior, there's not much the authorities can do. I am by no means criticizing your opinion as I certainly keep thinking, something should have been done. I'm just looking for insight as to what?

The interventions I was thinking of were: 1. school academic administrators talking to him to see if Cho was having problems and needed help (academic deans or advisors are supposed to be checking in on students which are reportedly having problems); 2. Cho's family being contacted; 3. Cho may have been on antidepressants (based on one news story), in which case his psychiatrist or psychologist could have been called by the school or his family; and, 4. if any of Cho's writings revealed threats to himself or others, then certainly the police could have been called (wait, I just remembered that he was harboring weapons). NEW: This just in the news! He had faced school dscipline for stalking to female students and his parents had sent him for mental health treatment. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/?GT1=9246

By the way, did anyone else find it in poor taste that at the school memorial last night, the VTech students started chanting "Hokies" - their sports team name? 33 people die and the students were acting as if they were at a football game rally. I suppose they were trying to cheer up and give over the impression that the school will continue but it seemed somewhat disrespectful. If one of the star athletes were having similar mental health problems or exhibiting bizaare behavior as Cho was doing, does anyone think the problem would have been ignored as it was with Cho? I am an avid sports fan, but I am beginning to think that many of the large schools should be spending less time on their sports and more time on making sure the regular/ average student is not just a number. I suppose next academic year, all the VTech teams will be wearing a black patch on their uniforms to honor the dead and use it as a rallying cry for victory. Some of the explanation must be the strange social psychology of college life. In the end, Cho Seung-Hui was a no one as a student but he will forever be remembered as Virginia Tech's most famous Alumnus.

 

[psychRA]

By the way, did anyone else find it in poor taste that at the school memorial last night, the VTech students started chanting "Hokies" - their sports team name? 33 people die and the students were acting as if they were at a football game rally. I suppose they were trying to cheer up and give over the impression that the school will continue but it seemed somewhat disrespectful.

They've just experienced a horrible event that has no doubt shattered their sense of safety at their school. I would imagine that displaying unity by wearing the colors and doing the cheer reinforces a sense of community and support. Given that social support is so critical for healing, this is probably one of the healthiest things for them to be doing right now in order to decrease feelings of lonliness and vulnerability. In any case, I don't think it's our place to judge their grieving process. We need to respect the fact that we didn't live through this - they did.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

By the way, did anyone else find it in poor taste that at the school memorial last night, the VTech students started chanting "Hokies" - their sports team name? 33 people die and the students were acting as if they were at a football game rally. I suppose they were trying to cheer up and give over the impression that the school will continue but it seemed somewhat disrespectful.

I suppose next academic year, all the VTech teams will be wearing a black patch on their uniforms to honor the dead and use it as a rallying cry for victory. Some of the explanation must be the strange social psychology of college life. In the end, Cho Seung-Hui was a no one as a student but he will forever be remembered as Virginia Tech's most famous Alumnus.

I think the chanting thing is about being cohesive, and a reminder that they are a community. Although it seems sports related, it is something that is a large part of the campus experience. Admittedly, I may have a somewhat biased view, as a former college athlete.

I think the most famous VT'er will still be Michael Vick......whom I really dislike, but he is still 1,000x better than Cho.

-t

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

So I finally tracked down the report I've been looking for. Since we are producers/supporters of research, I thought this would be something worth talking about. I'd like to encourage people who have the time, to read through the entire report, it is full of useful information. The report was developed through a partnership between the Secret Service's National Threat Assessment Center and the Department of Education's Safe and Drug-Free Schools Program.

The Final Report & Findings of the Safe School Initiative: Implications For The Prevention of School Attacks in the U.S.

-t

 

[amy203]

So I finally tracked down the report I've been looking for. Since we are producers/supporters of research, I thought this would be something worth talking about. I'd like to encourage people who have the time, to read through the entire report, it is full of useful information. The report was developed through a partnership between the Secret Service’s National Threat Assessment Center and the Department of Education’s Safe and Drug-Free Schools Program.

The Final Report & Findings of the Safe School Initiative: Implications For The Prevention of School Attacks in the U.S.

-t

I think the most interesting finding is that there is no “useful profile of students who engage in targeted school violence.” This leads to the conclusion that prevention efforts should focus on specific threats and behaviors rather than certain “types” of individuals. Overall, it reminded me a lot of suicide prevention, where the focus is typically on whether the person in question has a plan and whether he or she has taken any actions towards carrying the plan out (e.g. purchased a weapon). It’s something that could be taught to schools and the public without leading stigmatization and unnecessary persecution. In addition, I like how it encourages the creation of programs that foster community support systems.

I was in high school in Colorado at the time of Columbine incident, and, like many others, my school responded my banning trench coats and implementing a zero tolerance policy (there is very little evidence supporting zero tolerance approaches). Let’s hope future policies will be based on research rather than hysteria.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I think the most interesting finding is that there is no “useful profile of students who engage in targeted school violence.”

That stood out for me too. I knew that was the case, but it was nice to see it in print in a legit study.

-t

 

[RayneeDeigh]

This interview with Cho's suitemate makes me want to smack the reporter. He obviously had his own agenda before the camera was even turned on.

http://video.msn.com/v/us/fv/msnbc/...&rf=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18138369/&fg=

 

[nononora]

This interview with Cho's suitemate makes me want to smack the reporter. He obviously had his own agenda before the camera was even turned on.

http://video.msn.com/v/us/fv/msnbc/...&rf=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18138369/&fg=

Leading questions make me mad. The whole interview was full of leading questions, then towards the end, the reporter says "I don't mean this to be a leading question but..."

Deplorable. It really is. Now it's all about Cho and his manifesto instead of the victims and their family/friends.

 

[Ollie123]

That interview makes me wonder how Matthews even ties his own shoes, let alone holds a high-paying job.

Not only were there leading questions....a lot of the questions were just ridiculous and stupid. Plus he kept badgering the poor kid about not requesting a roommate change because he was living with what they thought was a shy, quiet kid. I wouldn't have. If you're just looking for someone to share living space with and not a friend, I'd prefer to live with someone like that then probably 90% of the typical drunken frat-*****s you see at college(assuming of course, you had no idea he was capable of something like what he did). That's of course, just scratching the surface of the stupid things Matthews said in that video....

Perhaps I'm in the minority but I am happy the videos were released. I realize many see it as disgusting, disturbing, giving the killer what he wants, etc. I just have too much sheer curiosity in things like this, and the idea that there is information out there that I can't find out about has me climbing the walls. Perhaps I'm disturbed in my own right if I can detach myself enough to be more interested in discovering his thought processes than simply disgusted....come on, you're all psychology folks, am I the only one to feel that way? I'm honestly curious if there are others like me, since all my friends here seem to think I'm nuts that I actually wanted to see the videos that were released.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

That interview makes me wonder how Matthews even ties his own shoes, let alone holds a high-paying job.

Not only were there leading questions....a lot of the questions were just ridiculous and stupid. Plus he kept badgering the poor kid about not requesting a roommate change because he was living with what they thought was a shy, quiet kid. I wouldn't have. If you're just looking for someone to share living space with and not a friend, I'd prefer to live with someone like that then probably 90% of the typical drunken frat-*****s you see at college(assuming of course, you had no idea he was capable of something like what he did). That's of course, just scratching the surface of the stupid things Matthews said in that video....

Perhaps I'm in the minority but I am happy the videos were released. I realize many see it as disgusting, disturbing, giving the killer what he wants, etc. I just have too much sheer curiosity in things like this, and the idea that there is information out there that I can't find out about has me climbing the walls. Perhaps I'm disturbed in my own right if I can detach myself enough to be more interested in discovering his thought processes than simply disgusted....come on, you're all psychology folks, am I the only one to feel that way? I'm honestly curious if there are others like me, since all my friends here seem to think I'm nuts that I actually wanted to see the videos that were released.

Well I'm going into clinical forensic psych and I once read the biography of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka before going to bed and slept quite soundly, so I'm clearly the wrong person to ask about this. lol. I understand completely. We're people who like to find out what makes people tick, and Cho was quite the ticking time bomb.

But I think it was generally a bad idea to put it on the news. I'm worried it will inspire others to do something similar.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Oh and I'm glad you guys think the interview is absolutely horrible, so it's not just me.