kootz

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I know that Western likes to look at other things than GPA. Are there any other schools (in the US) that won't ignore you if you don't have a 4.0?
 

twelvetigers

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You're probably going to be best off looking at what schools accept a large number of OOS students and making sure that other things on your application make you stand out if your GPA isn't so great.

That's my plan, at least. :)
 

cowgirla

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Based on experience, as OOS: Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa, Mississippi.

If you want to go "international," PEI, and some of the European schools.


ETA: Of course it depends on how low below a 4.0 you are. If you're 3.5 or up, you don't have much to worry about in that department. I'm speaking from a 3.2 standpoint.
 

kootz

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Jan 25, 2010
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You're probably going to be best off looking at what schools accept a large number of OOS students and making sure that other things on your application make you stand out if your GPA isn't so great.

That's my plan, at least. :)

okay then.. what schools accept a lot of OOS. My IS is Tufts.

twelevetigers... i take you didn't get in. me too :( are you applying this next cycle?
 

scubblescully

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Kansas State, Iowa State, Michigan State, Minnesota, Ok State?, On VMCAS and AVMA websites you can find a lot of information on the schools and their prerequisites and everything. I would look at which ones take a lot of out of state students. Then I would look at their prerequisites and eliminate the schools that you can't apply to or don't want to take the necessary classes. Then look at how many people apply OOS to get an idea of your chances. Then look at more specific things to try and find which schools look at your strengths. For me, my overall GPA was low but my last 45 hours GPA and GRE were strong so I found schools that put a lot of weight on those things and did not apply to schools that only look at overall GPA and things like that. Basically, it takes a lot of research, but you will be able to find the schools at which you will be the most competitive.
 

twelvetigers

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twelevetigers... i take you didn't get in. me too :( are you applying this next cycle?
Right you are. I only applied IS. I'll be applying again and plan to try several OOS schools as well this time.

I like scubbles's list, but I would add Ohio to the mix.
 

psilovethomas

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... Michigan State...
Michigan State uses a point system, so it's probably not your best bet.
Oh and scrubblescully, I know you're thinking about both Michigan and Minnesota. Here's my two cents. Michigan has SPARTY!:p
 

HandD42

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I know for MN you need to meet a minimum GPA + GRE cut off to get an interview invite but after that it gets thrown out. From their website: The academic record (grades and GRE results) will not play a role in the final admissions decision.

Really great idea unless you bomb your interview like I did, Snerf. sigh. :thumbdown:

From my own personal experience it is probably a waste to apply to any OOS school with less then 8% OOS acceptance. I applied to both CSU and VMRCVM with a (pretty) high GPA and GRE and still had absolutely no luck (they both accept <2% of their OOS applicants).

Luckily I did apply broadly enough and got accepted to ISU and WL at WI.
 

lalzi22

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Ohio wouldn't be a good bet. They require a 3.4 minimum for OOS.
Not true. Directly from their website:
"Applicants who are non-residents with a GPA less than a 3.0 will not be considered. Mininimum GRE - 1000 "

They do say that competitive OOS applicants generally have a 3.5 or above though.
 

twelvetigers

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Yeah, NCSU is the only one that wants a 3.4. Maybe some where wants a 3.2 but most are 3.0, 2.8, or 2.5. Or there isn't one. Um, does Ohio average grades or replace grades?
 

elliepants

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I know for MN you need to meet a minimum GPA + GRE cut off to get an interview invite but after that it gets thrown out. From their website: The academic record (grades and GRE results) will not play a role in the final admissions decision.
This was true for this cycle- but I read somewhere that they're changing it for next year. I may be wrong...
 

david594

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Not true. Directly from their website:
"Applicants who are non-residents with a GPA less than a 3.0 will not be considered. Mininimum GRE - 1000 "

They do say that competitive OOS applicants generally have a 3.5 or above though.
I had gotten in with a ~3.2 GPA.

If you have a low GPA you need to have a good answer to the question "Why was your GPA so low?"
 

lalzi22

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Yeah, NCSU is the only one that wants a 3.4. Maybe some where wants a 3.2 but most are 3.0, 2.8, or 2.5. Or there isn't one. Um, does Ohio average grades or replace grades?
I'm gonna be honest and say I don't know, but I had to re-take calc (I got a D), and they said as long as I got a C or above, even if I took pre-calc and not calc to fulfill the math pre-req, then they would accept that. Take that at face value. I suggest calling them, but since you are TT you probably know that, haha.
 

cowgirla

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I had gotten in with a ~3.2 GPA.

If you have a low GPA you need to have a good answer to the question "Why was your GPA so low?"

In four interviews, not one school brought up the fact that my GPA was barely a 3.2. So take that for what its worth, and with a grain of salt-- I was definitely expecting a question about that though.
 

nyanko

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I got asked about my GPA in my interview this year in the sense that I was asked what happened at my last vet school interview and why I thought I didn't get in. So roundabout, but still had to explain.
 

twelvetigers

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UTK also requires calc, lol. Wait, will Ohio accept trig? I guess I could take calc online if I had to... *disgust*

As for a GPA explanation, how about "chemistry eats my soul"?
 

nyanko

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If there is some kind of calculus for life sciences or applied calc you can take it might be easier for you. Those sorts of classes tend to be full of people who aren't math-minded so although the material is not really much easier if at all, the curves will usually be more generous.
 

StartingoverVet

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If there is some kind of calculus for life sciences or applied calc you can take it might be easier for you. Those sorts of classes tend to be full of people who aren't math-minded so although the material is not really much easier if at all, the curves will usually be more generous.
Also, I retook calculus in adult evening classes that are full of recent grads who tired of the real world very quickly and all decided they would go to mainly med or dental school. Even though it is a general calc class , everyone is life science oriented and the prof was very gentle on us. Same thing in physcis.

So, if they have adult evening classes with transferrable credits, give that a try.
 

quantized

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But but....calc is so fun! And then you can do cool things with it in physics!

:prof:
 

nyanko

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Oh I like calc for the most part but let's be honest it isn't everybody's cup of tea. :smuggrin:
 

lalzi22

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UTK also requires calc, lol. Wait, will Ohio accept trig? I guess I could take calc online if I had to... *disgust*

As for a GPA explanation, how about "chemistry eats my soul"?
I dont know. They DO NOT require calc. YAY! They told me that my CC 115 level precalc class would be acceptable, so call them for whatever class you want to take and have them check it first. It says algebra and trig on their website, but when I was signed up for that they said it wasnt acceptable and told me to take precalc instead, so DEF check with them first. But no, no calc, which made my math-hating self happy.
 
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I had a 3.36 cumGPA and got an interview invite for Ohio (OOS). However, I bombed the interview, and didn't get in. *Sigh* But I'd say that taking 40 OOS students out of a 140 person class is pretty good. Though I think Kansas takes the most from what I remember seeing.

If you took the AP Calculus test, Ohio will accept that! I didn't take any math classes in college because I had Calculus credit from the AP test (and pre-calc credit). I had my undergraduate school send a paper with my transcripts saying what classes I received credit for based on my AP scores. Ohio just wanted me to send my AP scores from the people who make/grade the test (College Board or something?).
 

that redhead

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I have a cripplingly low GPA. I probably won't get in this coming cycle, but I'm going to do my best to get my GPA up with summer classes. I feel that the rest of my application is competitive, so I'm hoping -someone- out there can look past my just-qualifies GPA.

That said, I'm in the middle of doing my research on which schools I should apply to. I'm a Maryland resident so VMRCVM is my "in-state". With my GPA, I'm not sure it will be all that helpful, but its something to consider. I'm also looking into Kansas State, Colorado State (although as mentioned above, OOS admissions are low), Minnesota, Western and Tuskegee. I still have to go through and find schools with high OOS admissions and compare them to my notes from Successful Applicants threads. I'll keep my eye on this thread, though, because I had this exact same question! :)
 

dyachei

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I think UTK required a 3.4 for OOS as well.

Not that I know of. Most info about their admissions procedure can be found here: http://www.vet.utk.edu/admissions/procedure.php

The average quoted for 2 years ago was a 3.6 for out of state.

As for the chemistry comment, TwelveTigers, I'm the same way. They just expect a C in every pre-req. They let me in with C's in organic both semester, but I'm in state. Also, they weigh how hard your semesters are there, so if you have more average hours every semester, you get more points.
 

cowgirla

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Not that I know of. Most info about their admissions procedure can be found here: http://www.vet.utk.edu/admissions/procedure.php

The average quoted for 2 years ago was a 3.6 for out of state.

As for the chemistry comment, TwelveTigers, I'm the same way. They just expect a C in every pre-req. They let me in with C's in organic both semester, but I'm in state. Also, they weigh how hard your semesters are there, so if you have more average hours every semester, you get more points.
Whoops, that 3.4 should have been a 3.2!

Straight off the website:
A NON-RESIDENT APPLICANT MUST HAVE A MINIMUM CUMULATIVE GRADE POINT AVERAGE OF 3.2 ON A 4.0 SCALE FOR HIS/HER APPLICATION TO BE CONSIDERED.
 

squeegee

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I have a cripplingly low GPA. I probably won't get in this coming cycle, but I'm going to do my best to get my GPA up with summer classes. I feel that the rest of my application is competitive, so I'm hoping -someone- out there can look past my just-qualifies GPA.

That said, I'm in the middle of doing my research on which schools I should apply to. I'm a Maryland resident so VMRCVM is my "in-state". With my GPA, I'm not sure it will be all that helpful, but its something to consider. I'm also looking into Kansas State, Colorado State (although as mentioned above, OOS admissions are low), Minnesota, Western and Tuskegee. I still have to go through and find schools with high OOS admissions and compare them to my notes from Successful Applicants threads. I'll keep my eye on this thread, though, because I had this exact same question! :)
I know CSU might seem like a longshot with the number of OOS applications they receive but if you can afford the extra application fees with VMCAS it can't hurt to try! I was a third timer, waitlisted at Tufts three years in a row, first applied to CSU OOS with my third attempt and magically made the cut. I truly feel like they look at the whole applicant and not just grades (though their website doesn't list a minimum gpa it said most successful applicants have above a 3.2)

here's a link to their admissions philosophy:
http://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/cvmbs/admissions_overview.pdf
lots of emphasis on community service, leadership, communications skills, work ethic- a nice change from strict academic performance. it also fits with their philosophy on client communication and the development of the argus institute.

They also don't do interviews, so what's the harm in giving it a shot? honestly, that's one big reason why I checked the box on VMCAS and here I am :)
 

dyachei

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Whoops, that 3.4 should have been a 3.2!

Straight off the website:
A NON-RESIDENT APPLICANT MUST HAVE A MINIMUM CUMULATIVE GRADE POINT AVERAGE OF 3.2 ON A 4.0 SCALE FOR HIS/HER APPLICATION TO BE CONSIDERED.
Thanks :), I didn't really check too hard, I just thought 3.4 was kind of high for that average.
 

sumstorm

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Yeah, NCSU is the only one that wants a 3.4. Maybe some where wants a 3.2 but most are 3.0, 2.8, or 2.5. Or there isn't one. Um, does Ohio average grades or replace grades?
3.4 for OOS, but remember we also have altnerative admissions, and we have had several students enter under that option.
 

chordy4

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just wanted to add that while yes, it's good to apply to schools that take a fair number of OOS students, it's also good to look at how many students apply. a school that takes fewer OOSers but only gets a few hundred applicants as opposed to over a thousand may still be a good bet.

also, i know some schools like OKState and Iowa State tend to run through there alternates list a decent amount (i believe last year Iowa went up to 92 or something like that), so sometimes that's good to know.

and if you're GPA isn't the strongest, i think one of the most important things can be to make yourself a stronger applicant in other areas by getting a lot of good, and diverse experiences.
 

kootz

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I interviewed at Western this year and applied only to Tufts my IS and UPenn. My GPA sucks and my GRE is average, but I have really good recs and tons of experience.

I did my follow up at Tufts and they said that they were concerned that I couldn't handle a heavy science course-load and was told that I could PROVE to them by getting A's in science courses I took while working... better yet 2 at time while working.

So here's where I'm torn. I obviously messed up my Western interview or just didn't make the lucky pile of apps. I can retake the GRE and reapply to Western this next cycle and hopefully get an interview or I can take Neuroscience this summer... gack... get an A (hopefully) and apply to a bunch of schools...

I could get into Western this next cycle and go, or get rejected everywhere and have another science course in the bank.

What should I do? Should I apply now just to see if a GRE score helps me or wait a full year, retake courses and apply with a stronger GPA? OR do both?
 

dyachei

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I interviewed at Western this year and applied only to Tufts my IS and UPenn. My GPA sucks and my GRE is average, but I have really good recs and tons of experience.

I did my follow up at Tufts and they said that they were concerned that I couldn't handle a heavy science course-load and was told that I could PROVE to them by getting A's in science courses I took while working... better yet 2 at time while working.

So here's where I'm torn. I obviously messed up my Western interview or just didn't make the lucky pile of apps. I can retake the GRE and reapply to Western this next cycle and hopefully get an interview or I can take Neuroscience this summer... gack... get an A (hopefully) and apply to a bunch of schools...

I could get into Western this next cycle and go, or get rejected everywhere and have another science course in the bank.

What should I do? Should I apply now just to see if a GRE score helps me or wait a full year, retake courses and apply with a stronger GPA? OR do both?

Unless there is financial concern or concern over the course you would be taking, I would do both. that way, you could apply to multiple schools and not have all your eggs in one basket.
 

eventualeventer

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Illinois is another one that does not use GPA in the final decisions.

It sounds crazy, but if you have a LOT of experience and a clearly stated and strong interest in an "underserved" area of vet med (basically anything other than SA pvt practice), UC Davis apparently likes that. It blew me away that I got an interview there OOS when I did not get any love at all from Illinois or UPenn, both of which interview lots of OOS'ers. In my optional supplemental essay for UC Davis, I made a case for why I want to do equine/LA medicine AND research/academics. I have a ~3.3 GPA and 1520 GRE, 3500+ hours equine vet exp, 20 hours SA exp., and research experience under two PI's (in one, I was just helping with a project, in the other, I had my own project).

BTW, I'm a MD resident and got waitlisted at VMRCVM, Iowa, and MSU. There is another equine person at UC Davis (is she on here?) who is a VA resident and got into UC Davis OOS but not VMRCVM.
 

chris03333

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So here's where I'm torn. I obviously messed up my Western interview or just didn't make the lucky pile of apps. I can retake the GRE and reapply to Western this next cycle and hopefully get an interview or I can take Neuroscience this summer... gack... get an A (hopefully) and apply to a bunch of schools...
I would not assume you obviously messed up your interview. My advice is to make sure that you schedule a file review and find out what Western says. Also I would not assume anything (by applying to one place next year). Every year things change and the best thing you can do for yourself is to widen your application pool. Do not count on one school!
 

twelvetigers

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Is it sad I feel like I would have a better chance as an OOS resident for OK rather than IS? It makes no sense, but I swear they're looking more at OOSers as a "whole applicant' whereas... well, I dunno, maybe I just unintentionally put up some red flag or something.

I'll consider Colorado or Davis if I can get a 1520 on the GRE... otherwise, probably not. :hungover:
 

kootz

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Unless there is financial concern or concern over the course you would be taking, I would do both. that way, you could apply to multiple schools and not have all your eggs in one basket.
oh true true true... i'd apply to several schools and Western this cycle... I'm just wondering if it makes sense to wait ANOTHER year...grrr and raise my GPA thus bettering my chances overall...
 

dyachei

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oh true true true... i'd apply to several schools and Western this cycle... I'm just wondering if it makes sense to wait ANOTHER year...grrr and raise my GPA thus bettering my chances overall...
This is also a financial consideration. If you can afford to pay VMCAS and don't want to wait another year, go for it.
 
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Think about this-if you have a cum 3.2 with 120 credits or whatever, even if you get all A's with 15 credits or so in a semester how much will that REALLY raise your cumulative average? So, based on my file review from Washington, I would suggest this: If you already have applied or are thinking about applying in the very near future, you've taken the pre-reqs, so pre-reg GPA won't change much. With tons of credits, your cumulative won't change much. But, last 45 credit hours is based on what, one year's worth of grades? And science GPA is based on fewer credits, as well. So, the bet bet is to focus on those areas you can make a big change to quickly-last 45 and science. Good for people that hate math or had a hard time getting on track at the beginning, etc.

And a feel that this has been posed elsewhere but I felt it was fitting the the question at hand. This info is from class of 2010, though, so it's old but may give you some idea.
 

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lalzi22

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August, I LOVE YOU for posting that table. I searched the archives for it, but the link was no longer available. I was so sad since I wanted to send it to a younger pre-vet so THANKS!
 

HopefulAg

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There's that damn table! Been looking for that for quite some time and made a couple threads specifically devoted to finding it. Thank you, August, for proving I am not as crazy as I seem!



So here's where I'm torn. I obviously messed up my Western interview or just didn't make the lucky pile of apps. I can retake the GRE and reapply to Western this next cycle and hopefully get an interview or I can take Neuroscience this summer... gack... get an A (hopefully) and apply to a bunch of schools...
I'd definitely call them because you may not have 'obviously messed up' the interview. I truly thought that I 'obviously messed up' my interview and would get a rejection from Western, but I ended up with an acceptance. So messing up the interview isn't enough to kill you evidently.
 
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I'm glad I could be a help!! I have a few of those tables and some admissions brochures, etc saved to my computer. I'll try to post them more often.
 

kootz

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Jan 25, 2010
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[/QUOTE]I'd definitely call them because you may not have 'obviously messed up' the interview. I truly thought that I 'obviously messed up' my interview and would get a rejection from Western, but I ended up with an acceptance. So messing up the interview isn't enough to kill you evidently.[/QUOTE]

I walked away thinking I did REALLY well on the interview. And then didn't get in. That's why I think I did something wrong that I wasn't aware of.:rolleyes:

I'll be following up with them. If I passed on paper with them and only need to improve my interview then that's really worth reapply there.
 

kootz

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Jan 25, 2010
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The last 45 GPA thing. Does that include any post-bac work I've done, or is it just my senior and part of junior year in college?
 

chris03333

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So here's the thing about the Western interview...There is no great answers or bad answers (well maybe really bad). They are looking at your personality to see how and where you would fit into the PBL curriculum. So even if you felt you did "really good" or "really bad" doesn't mean the will accept if the former and reject the latter. You really need to get a file review, especially if you were rejected post interview.
 

gilch

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I have a ~3.3 GPA and 1520 GRE, 3500+ hours equine vet exp, 20 hours SA exp., and research experience under two PI's (in one, I was just helping with a project, in the other, I had my own project).

BTW, I'm a MD resident and got waitlisted at VMRCVM, Iowa, and MSU. There is another equine person at UC Davis (is she on here?) who is a VA resident and got into UC Davis OOS but not VMRCVM.

Wow! With those kind of numbers--esp GRE, tons of horse experience and 2 research projects, I am shocked that you didn't get an immediate acceptance at VMRCVM! Guess that means I didn't know as much about VMRCVM acceptance trends as I thought. Good for you for getting that Davis interview and good for Davis for looking past a 3.3 GPA. :D

When do you hear from Davis?
 

BlacKAT33

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Illinois is another one that does not use GPA in the final decisions.

It sounds crazy, but if you have a LOT of experience and a clearly stated and strong interest in an "underserved" area of vet med (basically anything other than SA pvt practice), UC Davis apparently likes that. It blew me away that I got an interview there OOS when I did not get any love at all from Illinois or UPenn, both of which interview lots of OOS'ers. In my optional supplemental essay for UC Davis, I made a case for why I want to do equine/LA medicine AND research/academics. I have a ~3.3 GPA and 1520 GRE, 3500+ hours equine vet exp, 20 hours SA exp., and research experience under two PI's (in one, I was just helping with a project, in the other, I had my own project).

BTW, I'm a MD resident and got waitlisted at VMRCVM, Iowa, and MSU. There is another equine person at UC Davis (is she on here?) who is a VA resident and got into UC Davis OOS but not VMRCVM.
I hope you get into Davis :D those other schools are so crazy to waitlist you (and me!! lol). i only spoke with you one night and jeez u already talked like a vet lol you definitely know a lot about horses! those experiences did you well. good luck!! i hope ppl hear from UCD soon cuz its driving ME crazy and i didnt even apply there! lol seems like its one of only a few schools left to make decisions
 

that redhead

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They also don't do interviews, so what's the harm in giving it a shot? honestly, that's one big reason why I checked the box on VMCAS and here I am :)
Thank you for that! :) From reading over Successful Applicant threads, it seemed that students that were accepted had a lot of experience/extra curriculars, and that's what I have a lot of. I figure it's worth a shot, and I applied/got in there undergrad (although didn't go) so I already know the campus/area and its unbelievable. Again, thanks for the little glimmer of hope - I will definitely check their box :)