Screwed on publication authorship by a PI....

[emgirl]

Hey there,

I wanted to throw this issue out to the forum because I have a dilemma I am not sure how to handle. I spent part of my undergrad and 6 months after grad working full time for a PI on research projects (so I worked for her for one year total) and put up with alot of BS in this lab because I was promised the opp. to get published (this PI is a publishing machine).

I took over a project from a former student and completely re-analyzed the data and wrote a new paper for submission (the old student's paper was not accepted by journals and the database she had passed on to me was full of errors so I redid the whole project basically). I found out today (I have moved on to a much happier job now) that my old PI submitted the paper (which I wrote in entirety) to a journal with the old student as the 2nd author (PI is 1st) and me all the way at the end of a list of about 10 people (most of which were not involved with the project).

When taking this project on the PI assured me I would be moved from last to 2nd author if I rewrote the paper since I had contributed so much to the data. I was shocked to see that she had kept me at the end on this newly submitted paper (My paper!! That I wrote without any input or help from her or the other student!). I feel like something really unethical went on. I want to say something about this to her because it really bothers me but the tricky part is we are submitting a 2nd paper (for which I played a major role in the research collection/data analysis) which she wants me to write also as a condition of her letting me be an author on it. I do not want to spend any more time writing another paper for this woman (I will be the last of 3 authors no matter what on it) after what she pulled on this paper.

Would it be appropriate for me to email her and let her know that I am disappointed she submitted my paper with me as a last author after her promise? It will make her mad and she *may* pull my authorship on the 2nd paper. I just don't know what to do but I am really angry with what she did. Any thoughts/advice? Sorry for the length- Thanks yall, Em

PS- I am not depending on her for a LOR

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[rme04]

of course you should complain. you should have to take that **** from your PI. dont be a wimp.

 

[Law2Doc]

Hey there,

I wanted to throw this issue out to the forum because I have a dilemma I am not sure how to handle. I spent part of my undergrad and 6 months after grad working full time for a PI on research projects (so I worked for her for one year total) and put up with alot of BS in this lab because I was promised the opp. to get published (this PI is a publishing machine).

I took over a project from a former student and completely re-analyzed the data and wrote a new paper for submission (the old student's paper was not accepted by journals and the database she had passed on to me was full of errors so I redid the whole project basically). I found out today (I have moved on to a much happier job now) that my old PI submitted the paper (which I wrote in entirety) to a journal with the old student as the 2nd author (PI is 1st) and me all the way at the end of a list of about 10 people (most of which were not involved with the project).

When taking this project on the PI assured me I would be moved from last to 2nd author if I rewrote the paper since I had contributed so much to the data. I was shocked to see that she had kept me at the end on this newly submitted paper (My paper!! That I wrote without any input or help from her or the other student!). I feel like something really unethical went on. I want to say something about this to her because it really bothers me but the tricky part is we are submitting a 2nd paper (for which I played a major role in the research collection/data analysis) which she wants me to write also as a condition of her letting me be an author on it. I do not want to spend any more time writing another paper for this woman (I will be the last of 3 authors no matter what on it) after what she pulled on this paper.

Would it be appropriate for me to email her and let her know that I am disappointed she submitted my paper with me as a last author after her promise? It will make her mad and she *may* pull my authorship on the 2nd paper. I just don't know what to do but I am really angry with what she did. Any thoughts/advice? Sorry for the length- Thanks yall, Em

PS- I am not depending on her for a LOR

I would say something but be nice about it.

 

[lfesiam]

Did you revised the paper or rewrote the whole thing?
How much of it is your own words?

Definitely talk to your PI about it.

 

[MD-iwish]

Never hurts to ask. But I guess try not to bitch her/him out

 

[Mung Force]

hell no dont be nice about it- what happened constitutes academic fraud and you have every right to be pissed off.

The same thing has happened to me over the past year. I've been bumped off of one paper, a poster and a Grand Rounds talk that I wrote for my boss. He is currently trying to establish himself and his research and is downright greedy about authorship.

I told him that I dont know a whole lot about research but I know what is right and wrong and that it is not right to take credit for someone else's work. At that point there was nothing we could do to change it but he knows that for all future projects we make it crystal clear who gets credit for what before we begin (and it feels pretty damn good to lay into to someone when you know you have the moral upper-hand).

If you are not dependent on this person anymore, and based on the circumstances, I think you have every right to be direct with him/her and tell them that they have committed what you to believe to be academic fraud and that you want to confront him/her about it.

 

[tigress]

There are certain accepted rules of authorship, and this seems to violate them. I would definitely bring it up, but I'm not sure how you should go about it. You don't want to be too confrontational (at least at the outset), but you want her to know that you know the rules of authorship and that you feel like she did not follow them. You should search online for what these rules are (I know when I was in grad school we had to have training sessions that included the list).

Good luck. Politics in research just stinks.

 

[synapse]

same thing happened to me

 

[MDposer]

Hey maybe you guys don't know this but first and LAST authors are considered the best. Being last author is an HONOR, and not an insult in reality. now maybe you should be first author, but you would rather be last than second any time, believe me

 

[ERJunkie]

Hey there,

I wanted to throw this issue out to the forum because I have a dilemma I am not sure how to handle. I spent part of my undergrad and 6 months after grad working full time for a PI on research projects (so I worked for her for one year total) and put up with alot of BS in this lab because I was promised the opp. to get published (this PI is a publishing machine).

I took over a project from a former student and completely re-analyzed the data and wrote a new paper for submission (the old student's paper was not accepted by journals and the database she had passed on to me was full of errors so I redid the whole project basically). I found out today (I have moved on to a much happier job now) that my old PI submitted the paper (which I wrote in entirety) to a journal with the old student as the 2nd author (PI is 1st) and me all the way at the end of a list of about 10 people (most of which were not involved with the project).

When taking this project on the PI assured me I would be moved from last to 2nd author if I rewrote the paper since I had contributed so much to the data. I was shocked to see that she had kept me at the end on this newly submitted paper (My paper!! That I wrote without any input or help from her or the other student!). I feel like something really unethical went on. I want to say something about this to her because it really bothers me but the tricky part is we are submitting a 2nd paper (for which I played a major role in the research collection/data analysis) which she wants me to write also as a condition of her letting me be an author on it. I do not want to spend any more time writing another paper for this woman (I will be the last of 3 authors no matter what on it) after what she pulled on this paper.

Would it be appropriate for me to email her and let her know that I am disappointed she submitted my paper with me as a last author after her promise? It will make her mad and she *may* pull my authorship on the 2nd paper. I just don't know what to do but I am really angry with what she did. Any thoughts/advice? Sorry for the length- Thanks yall, Em

PS- I am not depending on her for a LOR

My advice: If you have a problem with someone, confront them face-to-face in a cordial and professional manner. Whatever you do, DO NOT Email her. Thoughts can be terribly misinterpreted through Email.

 

[MadameLULU]

Authorship is somewhat tricky and it seems as if lots of lab/instiutions have different rules. In my opinion, writing a basic science paper doesn't necessarily mean that your name should be on it unless you helped conceputalize the idea and experimental design. If this is the case, then I feel there's been a huge violation of intellectual property, so to speak. If you didn't, then I think your should be in the middle or towards the end. OTOH, if your PI indicated you would be 2nd author, she should adhere to that.

 

[Law2Doc]

Politics in research just stinks.

Agreed. The biggest mistake of the OP was probably to pick a PI who felt the need to be listed first (i.e. was still credential building) rather than content to be last.

 

[tigress]

Hey maybe you guys don't know this but first and LAST authors are considered the best. Being last author is an HONOR, and not an insult in reality. now maybe you should be first author, but you would rather be last than second any time, believe me

Last is just generally the PI. But if the PI isn't last, it's probably very different. Usually the most important author is the one to whom correspondance should be addressed, anyway. If you aren't the PI, I don't see how being last would be an honor.

 

[MadameLULU]

Hey maybe you guys don't know this but first and LAST authors are considered the best. Being last author is an HONOR, and not an insult in reality. now maybe you should be first author, but you would rather be last than second any time, believe me

The anchor author is usually reserved for the person who secured the funding. I don't think a premed would ever get this honor.

 

[ajt2003]

Chances are, the paper's going to come back for revisions before final approval. Kindly ask your PI - go in person if you can - to bump you up in the author list during the revisions. Explain to your PI how much work you put into the paper - perhaps it's an oversight? Perhaps s/he didn't realize how much you revitalized/wrote/edited the paper? Try not to make assumptions, and definitely deal with this in person/with confidence.

If your former PI did realize all of your contributions and still listed you last, then your PI is a douche. Plain and simple. And that just sucks. (I'm sorry; I've worked for one of those too...ugh.)

 

[aragonh]

Hey maybe you guys don't know this but first and LAST authors are considered the best. Being last author is an HONOR, and not an insult in reality. now maybe you should be first author, but you would rather be last than second any time, believe me

To followup on this: Only first and last authors really count. Every name in between is . . . .in between. There is no rank for the in-betweeners. So it doesnt matter if your 2nd, middle, or 2nd to last, they are all the same.

However, based on what you wrote, you should be the first author, since you primarily wrote the draft that was submitted. The PI should be the last author, since she's the PI.

 

[nicholonious]

Just be glad you're out of that research lab. It really sounds like a horror story to me. You might do all the arguing in the world with this PI, but will they listen and accommodate your dissatisfaction? Be polite and professional about handling it, as everyone has said.


I just want to ask personally, do you think she'll do anything if you bring up your name placement in authorship? Sometimes trying to roll a cube is utterly worthless and a waste of effort, if you know what I mean. G'luck on that.

 

[Mutt]

Don't email.
Go talk to her face to face.

 

[xanthines]

Tigress is correct. The last author is usually the corresponding author who is the PI. The first is usually a post-doc or grad student or whoever contributed the most to the paper, which in this case appears to be you.

It's not academic fraud since you are listed as an author, and unless I'm mistaken, the paper has no serious flaws.

You should nicely ask your PI what happened. Did she re-write your re-write? Are those other people really that worthless? What SDN doesn't know from your post, is what happened to the paper/project after you left. Sometimes undergrads/grad students/post-docs get screwed. Sometime PI's get screwed. Unfortunately, that's a terrible facto of life for academic research. It's way less civil than it appears.

ajt2003 is right about asking to be bumped up during revision. Otherwise you'll just have to grin and bear it.

-X

Last is just generally the PI. But if the PI isn't last, it's probably very different. Usually the most important author is the one to whom correspondance should be addressed, anyway. If you aren't the PI, I don't see how being last would be an honor.

 

[godot]

Chances are, the paper's going to come back for revisions before final approval. Kindly ask your PI - go in person if you can - to bump you up in the author list during the revisions. Explain to your PI how much work you put into the paper - perhaps it's an oversight? Perhaps s/he didn't realize how much you revitalized/wrote/edited the paper? Try not to make assumptions, and definitely deal with this in person/with confidence.

I agree. It's best to confront the PI directly rather than stewing in anger and later wallowing in regret. You're obviously upset because you did put so much time and effort into the data and writing. I can relate. I've been working with a research fellow MD on a manuscript for submission. His English isn't very good and I've had to help him revise other things he's written before. Anyhow, first he asked me to make figures of the data from the experiments I performed on my own. Then he asked if I would go ahead and write the figure legends too. Okay. Then the "Results" section. Done. Then the "Introduction." Done. Finally, the rest of the darn paper. Okay, it's my work and my words that we finally submit to the two PIs who are funding the research for their review, and look, he's first author! What the heck? It's only a method's paper, so it's not ground breaking work, and it's not like the he had to come up with the ideas for experiments. In fact, much of the optimization of the protocol was based on my synthesis of the data and suggestions. I felt used and exploited, like a 12 year old Malaysian boy sewing together $200 Nike sneakers for 25 cents a day. At any rate, I talked to one of the PIs about my dismay and we came up with an amicable settlement in which I was co-first author (where you have some asterisk next to your names which indicates "these authors contributed equally to this work"). So it pays to discuss such issues in a professional, honest, and pleasant manner. After all, if you're going to stay in research/academic medicine, it's likely that such problems may come up again and you'll be comfortable dealing with them. Good luck!

 

[emgirl]

Hey yall thanks very much for all your insight.

Just to clarify, the last place is not an honor for the journal we are submitting to (the first several would be the major authors and people at the end of the list consist of our research center's director who doesn't know anything about the project, etc.). To answer another posters question- I was involved in data collection, analysis and wrote the entire paper from a blank doc (didnt just revise it) and I dont know much about authorship rules so I wasn't sure what the protocol was, but it overall just seemed shady when she did not honor her word to make me 2nd author. I am sorry to hear from others that this has happened to them- I will speak up (and will think long and hard about a mature way to do this) about this because I feel strongly that what she did was wrong.

My advice to others after this experience: do not stay with a PI who exhibits signs of unethical behavior in any area of their life- there were indications of my PI's shadiness prior to this situation but I was desperate for a research position and I regret staying on so long when I sensed something was not right. There are plenty of other research opps out there that provide fair and ethical research environments and no one should settle for less!

 

[edfig99]

the other lesson is to have discussions regarding authorship and the order of the authors in advance of the paper being written, and get it in writing. it helps defuse some of these situations. let's not even mention the ghost author thing that sounds like is going on as well which is frowned upon pretty much by every peer-reviewed publication's editorial board.

hope it all works out.

-ed

Hey yall thanks very much for all your insight.

Just to clarify, the last place is not an honor for the journal we are submitting to (the first several would be the major authors and people at the end of the list consist of our research center's director who doesn't know anything about the project, etc.). To answer another posters question- I was involved in data collection, analysis and wrote the entire paper from a blank doc (didnt just revise it) and I dont know much about authorship rules so I wasn't sure what the protocol was, but it overall just seemed shady when she did not honor her word to make me 2nd author. I am sorry to hear from others that this has happened to them- I will speak up (and will think long and hard about a mature way to do this) about this because I feel strongly that what she did was wrong.

My advice to others after this experience: do not stay with a PI who exhibits signs of unethical behavior in any area of their life- there were indications of my PI's shadiness prior to this situation but I was desperate for a research position and I regret staying on so long when I sensed something was not right. There are plenty of other research opps out there that provide fair and ethical research environments and no one should settle for less!