Sean Mackey on Pain Medicine's Civil War

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What is the competing point of view? That high dose opioids are safe and effective for CNP? Can you or Sean MacKey or Josh Prager or Lynn Webster say that with a straight face? I don't see the 'nuance' in this view.

Jane, Roger, David Tauben, Mark Sullivan, Tom Freiden, Vivek Murthy, Michael Von Korff, Anna Lempke, Len Paulozzi, Jim Shames, etc, all have a very nuanced view of both pain and addiction. They get the human suffering and population level view. I know because I've been blessed to know some of them personally and I get to talk to them frequently. These are not people driven by enormous egos, or money, or some clandestine ideology. They are driven by humanity and truth. None of them are waging a war on pain patients or advocating for 'cutting people off' but - just like the high dose patients themselves - people who have built departments or businesses on liberal opioid prescribing aren't above slinging that innuendo if they disagree with them.

Wait so the guys who own addiction specialist centers that make huge profits are all for the "little guy" and "being compassionate" huh?

Funny that the EMPLOYEES of this company feel different:

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Phoenix-House-Reviews-E105573.htm

Guess they don't know anything about how the place is run though huh? They must be all disgruntled because the general trend among employees is that it is low paying, corrupt group that is all about the dollar dollar.

Maybe you should explain to them how its all about "compassion"

I'd listen to this nonsense if I didn't see the employee reviews of the Phoenix house where its essentially run like a classic pill mill except using Suboxone where they pay employees garbage salaries and the top dog takes all the money.

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I disagree with a purely "individual" approach to pain medicine without any boundaries. by default, then, we should be condoning use of heroin, other illicit substances, high dose opioids combined with benzos and soma, because this is what the patient wants and knows will make them "better". where exactly is your cut off, if the sole determinant of "pain management" is a subjective response, particularly one so affected by confounding psychological factors?

I clearly remember this argument being used by doctors paid off by Big Tobacco, claiming that smoking not only did not cause cancer, but it was the patient's right to smoke, and only they can determine what is the right thing to do, and doctors had no right to advise their patients what to do.


otherwise, I would argue pain management is like HTN, DM, other chronic illnesses. it is a chronic condition, and treatment should likewise be geared for chronic use. opioids are not chronic use medications, due to their proclivity for causing side effects, including when used long term, and even the risk of exposure to others.
 
I'm pretty sure most folks do this as well. I counsel patients that might be candidates for opiates in my practice that 90meq is max is it and if they need more they go back to their prior doc, but no docs I know are assuming or taking in patients over 90meq. I am keeping my list and taking all non palliative folks (cancer or terminal illness) down on meds slowly. Even if for some folks it is just 5 pills per month reduction.....

Thats basically how I roll these days with very few exceptions to that rule.
 
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steve,

all I'm saying is that it's clear, as algos has pointed out, that these things will be used against us. whether it's right or not (and I agree it's not), this is what we're up against.
 
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Read through these comments here or here or here and you'll detect a common theme: patients on high dose opioids don't want them changed and they are not above waging ad hominem attacks against your character if you suggest otherwise. If you recall the public comments to the CDC guidelines you will remember they were identical. Moreover, more than one astro turf pain group started a letter writing campaign to UW following Dr. Ballantyne's NJEM article requesting that she be fired.

Difficult conversations are difficult, and can become confrontational, and uncomfortable, and there are often reprisals for having them. So many tend to avoid them. But that's not a good long term strategy.


Interesting reviews from Employees that worked for PROP's money donor Phoenix House if you don't want to read the Glassdoor reiews yourself. This one was about the same as almost everyone I've read on glassdoor:

"Intrinsic value only"
StarStarStarStarStar
Current Employee - Anonymous Employee in Citra, FL

Doesn't Recommend
Neutral Outlook
Disapproves of CEO
I have been working at Phoenix House full-time (More than a year)

Pros

You can possibly make a positive change in many peoples' lives by working here.

Cons

Pay.
Internal promotions are non-existent.
You are not a valued employee
Management is not consistent with expectations.
Performance reviews do not come with a raise, no matter the review.
Only focused on success rates and how much money they are receiving per head in the program.

Advice to Management

Interesting how the employees that work for PROP's Phoenix house seem to think that compassion isn't really that high up on the list of priorities for their "rehab" centers.

Hmm wonder if they all got it wrong huh? Maybe 101N knows more about these places than almost every employee review of the place?

Somehow im skeptical about their "compassion" though considering literally zero employees that have reviewed the company mention it as a priority.
 
Prop isn't associated with Phoenix house.
 
I disagree with a purely "individual" approach to pain medicine without any boundaries. by default, then, we should be condoning use of heroin, other illicit substances, high dose opioids combined with benzos and soma, because this is what the patient wants and knows will make them "better". where exactly is your cut off, if the sole determinant of "pain management" is a subjective response, particularly one so affected by confounding psychological factors?

I clearly remember this argument being used by doctors paid off by Big Tobacco, claiming that smoking not only did not cause cancer, but it was the patient's right to smoke, and only they can determine what is the right thing to do, and doctors had no right to advise their patients what to do.


otherwise, I would argue pain management is like HTN, DM, other chronic illnesses. it is a chronic condition, and treatment should likewise be geared for chronic use. opioids are not chronic use medications, due to their proclivity for causing side effects, including when used long term, and even the risk of exposure to others.

Right, because promoting individualized/personalized pain care is tantamount to condoning heroin and polysubstance use...
that's what I'm trying to say here...

You tell me the **OBJECTIVE** difference between a successful rhinoplasty, tummy tuck, or face-lift and a successful outcome in chronic pain (a facet RFA for example).

Hint: Who's paying for it?

 
Prop isn't associated with Phoenix house.

https://www.painnewsnetwork.org/stories/2016/8/11/prop-ends-affiliation-with-phoenix-house

"The Steve Rummler Hope Foundation is now the “fiscal sponsor” of PROP, which will allow PROP to collect tax deductible donations under the foundation’s 501 (c) (3) non-profit status. IRS regulations allow non-profits to form partnerships with like-minded organizations, allowing other groups to essentially piggyback off their non-profit status and collect donations. "
 
https://www.painnewsnetwork.org/stories/2016/8/11/prop-ends-affiliation-with-phoenix-house

"The Steve Rummler Hope Foundation is now the “fiscal sponsor” of PROP, which will allow PROP to collect tax deductible donations under the foundation’s 501 (c) (3) non-profit status. IRS regulations allow non-profits to form partnerships with like-minded organizations, allowing other groups to essentially piggyback off their non-profit status and collect donations. "

The "ending" of that affiliation is due to the clear conflict of interests noted between PROP and profiting from Rehab centers that push Suboxone treatment. That is all for show after the spotlight was shown bright on their corruption.

It would be much more clear that they are "compassionate" if they weren't literally making millions off of Suboxone while paying their employees slave wages while charging patients top dollar.

Im sure Andrew was paid a hefty penny as the CMO of Phoenix house. How "compassionate" of him huh?

Whats the difference between Suboxone pimps vs Big Pharma pimps?

Both are equally corrupt.
 

Oh yeah I remember this guy:

http://www.themountaineagle.com/news/2009-02-11/health/063.html

Funny thing I remember about him is that he is a pimp for Lyrica, Cymbalta, etc and takes alot of consultant fees pushing "Fibromyalgia" with payments for these drugs in the BILLIONS.

He is the guy who pushed the fraud diagnosis of "Fibro" to all new levels so that big pharma could push drugs that have zero benefit over placebo for a "disease" that has zero imaging/lab/etc confirmation.

Guess being a consultant pimp pays well.

For anyone pushing that pain is "subjective" and a "mental illness", I find it amusing you would quote dude whose living is literally PAID FOR by the big pharma pimps that promote a disease that can't be verified with any objective data.
 
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Okay, raise your hand if you've prescribed an opioid for fibromyalgia or interstitial cystitis in the last decade...

This "expert" has basically single handedly kept the fibromyalgia diagnosis alive after making literally MILLIONS in consultant fees from the big pharma pimps while pushing Lyrica, Cymbalta, etc that costs literally 700/month on average.

How do you think Lyrica became Pfizer's number 1 selling drug despite the huge level of side effects and tremendous cost for a diagnosis that is nebulous at best?

Meet our expert "consultants" who are just "compassionate" people who care about patients right.

Yet in the times of tightening budgets and need for "level one" evidence, we magically still have literally BILLIONS of dollars to pay for medications for a disease that is impossible to diagnose objectively and worse has no end point in treatment.
 
CENTERS FOR MEDICARE & MEDICAID SERVICES (CMS)OPIOID MISUSE STRATEGY 2016

Opioid prescribing benchmarking - as with surgical procedure volume, hospital readmissions, etc - is coming soon and it will be available to the public and payers alike.

CMS is also committed to providing information and tools to identify and address inappropriate provider prescribing and beneficiary utilization of opioids. By January 1, 2019, CMS will enforce requirements that the vast majority of prescribers who write prescriptions for Medicare Part D beneficiaries must be enrolled in Medicare or be validly opted Out in order for the beneficiaries’ drugs to be covered. This enrollment requirement will allow Medicare to have better oversight of prescriber behaviors and revoke enrollment of providers proven to demonstrate inappropriate behaviors.


The Medicare Part D Opioid Prescriber Summary File, which will build on this Medicare prescriber enrollment requirement , presents information on the individual opioid prescribing rates (for new prescriptions as well as refills) of prescribers of Part D drugs. This public data set will provide information on the number and percentage of prescription claims for opioid drugs, as well as each provider’s name, specialty, state, and zip code. The file can be used to explore the impact of prescribing practices of controlled substances on vulnerable populations.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwis5PrypPHRAhULwWMKHQjpBTsQFggaMAA&url=https://www.cms.gov/Outreach-and-Education/Outreach/Partnerships/Downloads/CMS-Opioid-Misuse-Strategy-2016.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGkghNJ_8nZvKuQ-zc_u349hRPJyg&sig2=npTqEu6iaOYX9ZYDIDNMBg
 
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COPC.jpg https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27586833

J Pain. 2016 Sep;17(9 Suppl):T93-T107. doi: 10.1016/j.jpain.2016.06.002.
Overlapping Chronic Pain Conditions: Implications for Diagnosis and Classification.
Maixner W1, Fillingim RB2, Williams DA3, Smith SB4, Slade GD5.
Author information

Abstract
There is increasing recognition that many if not most common chronic pain conditions are heterogeneous with a high degree of overlap or coprevalence of other common pain conditions along with influences from biopsychosocial factors. At present, very little attention is given to the high degree of overlap of many common pain conditions when recruiting for clinical trials. As such, many if not most patients enrolled into clinical studies are not representative of most chronic pain patients. The failure to account for the heterogeneous and overlapping nature of most common pain conditions may result in treatment responses of small effect size when these treatments are administered to patients with chronic overlapping pain conditions (COPCs) represented in the general population. In this brief review we describe the concept of COPCs and the putative mechanisms underlying COPCs. Finally, we present a series of recommendations that will advance our understanding of COPCs.

PERSPECTIVE:
This brief review describes the concept of COPCs. A mechanism-based heuristic model is presented and current knowledge and evidence for COPCs are presented. Finally, a set of recommendations is provided to advance our understanding of COPCs.

Copyright © 2016 American Pain Society. Published by Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.
 
I tell the patients coming in to see me taking >120 MG MED that it doesn't matter anymore how long they have been on pain meds nor that they believe only high dose opioids help. They are coming down and I show them the studies that reflect high dose moving to low dose or off actually have less pain. I no longer give them any choice. They mention my lack of compassion and I counter with going to jail because I cannot control how they use the opioids nor use same day as alcohol or benzodiazepines trumps my compassion. They are given no other choice...and they improve after the reduction in dose

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Would you mind showing me your choices of which studies to show them after explaining these things? Do you also scan the articles into each patient's chart with their initials stating they've been made aware of these studies? Are benzos just totally out of the equation for all of your opioid patients? What % of patients leaves you when you initiate and maintain these changes? What % have you had to "let go"? Just ball park is fine. All of this is blowing my mind.
Thank you very much!
 
I'm pretty sure most folks do this as well. I counsel patients that might be candidates for opiates in my practice that 90meq is max is it and if they need more they go back to their prior doc, but no docs I know are assuming or taking in patients over 90meq. I am keeping my list and taking all non palliative folks (cancer or terminal illness) down on meds slowly. Even if for some folks it is just 5 pills per month reduction.....

What about nucynta? The nucynta folks state "there is no mme" for nucynta--and yet the PMP site lists mme next to monthly nucynta Rx. What about buprenorphine? How do you handle that?
 
  1. Pain Med.2015 Jun 27. doi: 10.1111/pme.12812. Clinical Implications of TaperingChronic Opioids in a Veteran Population.Harden P1 A total of 50 patient charts were included in the study. The average percent reduction of opioid doses was 46% over a 12-month period. Seventy percent of patients either experienced no change in pain or had less pain when comparing baseline to 12 months. An equal percentage of patients either had no change in the number of adjuvant medications prescribed or had more adjuvant medications prescribed when comparing baseline to 12 months.
  2. Clin J Pain. 2013 Sep;29(9):760-9. doi: 10.1097/AJP.0b013e31827c7cf6.
Low pain intensity after opioid withdrawal as a first step of a comprehensive pain rehabilitation program predicts long-term nonuse of opioids in chronic noncancer pain. Krumova EK1 One hundred two consecutive patients with severe CNCP despite opioid medication (mean treatment duration, 43 mo) reported pain intensity (numerical rating scale, 0 to 10), Pain Disability Index, mood (CES-D), and quality of life (Short Form 36) before, shortly, and 12 to 24 months after inpatient OW. Total opioid withdrawal (n = 78) or significant dose reduction (DR; n = 24, mean reduction, 82%) was performed after individual decision. Opioid intake 12 to 24 months later, respectively dose increase ≥ 100% (DR group), was considered relapse. T tests, multivariable analysis of variance, logistic regression.

RESULTS:

After OW current pain intensity significantly decreased on an average by 41% (6.4 ± 2.4 vs. 3.8 ± 2.5), maximal and average pain by 18% and 24%, respectively. Twelve to 24 months later 42 patients (41%) relapsed (31 of the total opioid withdrawal group, 6 of the DR group, 5 lost). Patients without later relapse showed significantly lower pain scores than the later relapsed patients already shortly after OW (5.0 ± 2.2 vs. 5.9 ± 2.1) and 12 to 24 months later (5.5 ± 2.4 vs. 6.5 ± 2.0). There was a significant relation between relapse probability and pain intensity immediately after OW.

3. Am J Gastroenterol.2012 Sep;107(9):1426-40. doi: 10.1038/ajg.2012.142. Epub 2012 Jun 19.

Diagnosis, characterization, and 3-month outcome after detoxification of 39 patients with narcotic bowel syndrome.

Drossman DA Of the 39 patients detoxified, 89.7% met predefined criteria. Patients were mostly well educated (14.5 ± 2.3 years of school), female (92.3%), and with a variety of diagnoses (21% irritable bowel syndrome IBS/functional, 37% inflammatory bowel disease and other structural, 29% fibromyalgia and other functional somatic, or orthopedic, and 13% postoperative or other). They reported high health-care use (15.3 ± 10.1 MD visits/6 months; 6.5 ± 6.1 hospitalizations/2 years, 6.4 ± 2.0 surgeries/lifetime), and 82.1% were jobless. Despite high dosages of narcotics (total intravenous (IV) morphine equivalent 75.3 ± 78.0  mg/day), pain scores were rated severe (52.9 ± 28.8 visual analog scale (VAS); 257.1 ± 139.6 functional bowel disorder severity index (FBDSI); 17.2 ± 10.2 (McGill Pain and greater than labor or postoperative pain). Multiple symptoms were reported (n = 17.8 ± 9.2) and rated as moderate to severe. Psychosocial scores showed high catastrophizing (19.9 ± 8.6); poor daily function (Short Form-36 (SF-36) physical 28.3 ± 7.7, mental 34.3 ± 11.0; worse than tetraplegia); 28.2% were clinically depressed and 33.3% anxious (Hospital Anxiety and Depression Scale (HADS)). Detoxification was successfully completed by 89.7%; after detoxification, abdominal pain was reduced by 35% (P < 0.03) and nonabdominal pain by 42% (P < 0.01) on VAS, and catastrophizing significantly improved (P < 0.01). Responder status was met in 56.4% with 48.7% achieving a ≥ 30% reduction in pain. By 3 months after detoxification, 45.8% had returned to using narcotics. For those who remained off narcotics at 3 months, the VAS abdominal pain score was 75% lower than pretreatment when compared with those who went back on narcotics (24% lower). Successful detoxification and a good clinical response was associated with low abuse potential

4. Pain Med.2016 Jan 11. pii: pnv079. [Epub ahead of print]

Opioid Tapering in Fibromyalgia Patients: Experience from an Interdisciplinary Pain Rehabilitation Program. Cunningham JL a pain diagnosis of fibromyalgia completing a 3-week outpatient interdisciplinary pain rehabilitation program. Opioid tapering analysis included 55 (35%) patients using daily opioids.

METHODS:

Opioid tapering was individualized to each patient based on interdisciplinary pain rehabilitation team determination. Opioid withdrawal symptoms were assessed daily, utilizing the Clinical Opioid Withdrawal Scale.

RESULTS:

Patients taking daily opioids had a morphine equivalent mean dose of 99 mg/day. Patients on < 100 mg/day were tapered off over a mean of 10 days compared with patients on > 200 mg/day over a mean of 28 days (P < 0.001). Differences in peak withdrawal symptoms were not statistically significant based on the mean equivalent dose (P = 22). Patients takingopioids for <2 years did not differ in length of tapering (P =0.63) or peak COWS score (P =0.80) compared with >2 years duration. Patients had significant improvements in pain-related measures including numeric pain scores, depression catastrophizing, health perception, interference with life, and perceived life control at program completion.

5. J Opioid Manag. 2006 Sep-Oct;2(5):277-82.

Significant pain reduction in chronic pain patients after detoxification from high-dose opioids. Baron MJ1, McDonald PW.

Abstract

Opioid tolerance is a well-established phenomenon that often occurs in patients taking opioids for the treatment of chronic pain. Typically, doctors need to periodically elevate patients' opioid doses in an attempt to manage their underlying pain conditions, resulting in escalating opioid levels with only moderate to negligible improvement in pain relief. Recently, opioid-induced hyperalgesia has been recognized as a potential form of central sensitization in which a patient's pain level increases in parallel with elevation of his or her opioid dose. Here, we report a retrospective study of patients undergoing detoxification from high-dose opioids prescribed to treat an underlying chronic pain condition which had not resolved in the year prior. All patients were converted to ibuprofen to manage pain, with a subgroup treated with buprenorphine during detoxification. Self-reports for pain scores were taken at first evaluation, follow-up visits, and termination. Twenty-one of 23 patients reported a significant decrease in pain after detoxification, suggesting that high-dose opioids may contribute to pain sensitization via opioid-induced hyperalgesia, decreasing patient pain threshold and potentially masking resolution of the preexisting pain condition

6. Clin Ther. 2014 Nov 1;36(11):1555-63. doi: 10.1016/j.clinthera.2014.10.013. Epub 2014 Nov 19.

Opioid interruptions, pain, and withdrawal symptoms in nursing home residents.

Redding SE Sixty-six patients receiving opioids were followed for a mean of 10.9 months and experienced a total of 104 acute illnesses. During 64 (62%) illnesses, patients experienced any reduction in opioid dosing, with a mean (SD) dose reduction of 63.9% (29.9%). During 39 (38%) illnesses, patients experienced a significant opioid interruption. In patients with interruptions, there were statistically insignificant changes in mean (SD) pain score (difference -0.50 [2.66]; 95% CI, -3.16 to 2.16) and withdrawal score (difference -0.91 [3.12]; 95% CI, -4.03 to 2.21) after the interruption as compared with before interruption.



OTHER STUDIES:

Farm Hosp. 2014 Sep 16;38(5):411-7 Switching to another opioid while at the same time reducing opioid equivalent dosage by 37% resulted in clinical improvement in VAS (77%) and in adverse effects.

J Opioid Manag. 2012 Sep-Oct;8(5):292-8 High dose opioids in cancer patients rapid detox over 7 days due to tolerance, inefficiency, or hyperalgesia using ketoprofen or ibuprofen and oral lorazepam. Average VAS decreased from 8.3 to 3.6 after detoxification.

Am J Ther. 2006 Sep-Oct;13(5):436-44. For those taking chronic opioids for pain who receive a diagnosis of DSM4 opioid prescription medication dependence, detoxification as an inpatient reduced VAS from 5.5 to a level of 3.4 at discharge over a 5 day detox period.

J Opioid Manag Nov-Dec;11(6):481-8 A community based intervention to reduce the number of opioid prescriptions of Oxycontin to the underserved population in Florida resulted in a 75% reduction in prescribed tablets of Oxycontin, a reduction in hydrocodone and other long acting opioids, without any significant complaints from patients and no significant change in patient satisfaction

Clin J Pain 2014 Feb;30(2):93-101 80% of patients on high dose opioids (MED>50mg) that have significant side effects, reduction in pain effectiveness, reduction in perceived helpfulness, and concerns over long term use will continue high dose opioids after one year. This implies a significant chemical dependence on high dose opioids even when patients want to quit, and unless forced to reduce dosages by their physician, they will not do so.

No, I do not place these in the patient's charts- it doesn't matter if they agree or disagree. Percentage leaving my practice in the Indiana practice- 3%. They are not given any option. Percent on benzos- in Indiana, it was 15%, in Florida it is 60%, but the MED dosages are much lower- around 30mg.
 
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upload_2017-2-4_21-29-39.png
  1. Pain Med.2015 Jun 27. doi: 10.1111/pme.12812. Clinical Implications of TaperingChronic Opioids in a Veteran Population.Harden P1 A total of 50 patient charts were included in the study. The average percent reduction of opioid doses was 46% over a 12-month period. Seventy percent of patients either experienced no change in pain or had less pain when comparing baseline to 12 months. An equal percentage of patients either had no change in the number of adjuvant medications prescribed or had more adjuvant medications prescribed when comparing baseline to 12 months.
  2. Clin J Pain. 2013 Sep;29(9):760-9. doi: 10.1097/AJP.0b013e31827c7cf6.
Low pain intensity after opioid withdrawal as a first step of a comprehensive pain rehabilitation program predicts long-term nonuse of opioids in chronic noncancer pain. Krumova EK1 One hundred two consecutive patients with severe CNCP despite opioid medication (mean treatment duration, 43 mo) reported pain intensity (numerical rating scale, 0 to 10), Pain Disability Index, mood (CES-D), and quality of life (Short Form 36) before, shortly, and 12 to 24 months after inpatient OW. Total opioid withdrawal (n = 78) or significant dose reduction (DR; n = 24, mean reduction, 82%) was performed after individual decision. Opioid intake 12 to 24 months later, respectively dose increase ≥ 100% (DR group), was considered relapse. T tests, multivariable analysis of variance, logistic regression.

RESULTS:

After OW current pain intensity significantly decreased on an average by 41% (6.4 ± 2.4 vs. 3.8 ± 2.5), maximal and average pain by 18% and 24%, respectively. Twelve to 24 months later 42 patients (41%) relapsed (31 of the total opioid withdrawal group, 6 of the DR group, 5 lost). Patients without later relapse showed significantly lower pain scores than the later relapsed patients already shortly after OW (5.0 ± 2.2 vs. 5.9 ± 2.1) and 12 to 24 months later (5.5 ± 2.4 vs. 6.5 ± 2.0). There was a significant relation between relapse probability and pain intensity immediately after OW.

3. Am J Gastroenterol.2012 Sep;107(9):1426-40. doi: 10.1038/ajg.2012.142. Epub 2012 Jun 19.

Diagnosis, characterization, and 3-month outcome after detoxification of 39 patients with narcotic bowel syndrome.

Drossman DA Of the 39 patients detoxified, 89.7% met predefined criteria. Patients were mostly well educated (14.5 ± 2.3 years of school), female (92.3%), and with a variety of diagnoses (21% irritable bowel syndrome IBS/functional, 37% inflammatory bowel disease and other structural, 29% fibromyalgia and other functional somatic, or orthopedic, and 13% postoperative or other). They reported high health-care use (15.3 ± 10.1 MD visits/6 months; 6.5 ± 6.1 hospitalizations/2 years, 6.4 ± 2.0 surgeries/lifetime), and 82.1% were jobless. Despite high dosages of narcotics (total intravenous (IV) morphine equivalent 75.3 ± 78.0  mg/day), pain scores were rated severe (52.9 ± 28.8 visual analog scale (VAS); 257.1 ± 139.6 functional bowel disorder severity index (FBDSI); 17.2 ± 10.2 (McGill Pain and greater than labor or postoperative pain). Multiple symptoms were reported (n = 17.8 ± 9.2) and rated as moderate to severe. Psychosocial scores showed high catastrophizing (19.9 ± 8.6); poor daily function (Short Form-36 (SF-36) physical 28.3 ± 7.7, mental 34.3 ± 11.0; worse than tetraplegia); 28.2% were clinically depressed and 33.3% anxious (Hospital Anxiety and Depression Scale (HADS)). Detoxification was successfully completed by 89.7%; after detoxification, abdominal pain was reduced by 35% (P < 0.03) and nonabdominal pain by 42% (P < 0.01) on VAS, and catastrophizing significantly improved (P < 0.01). Responder status was met in 56.4% with 48.7% achieving a ≥ 30% reduction in pain. By 3 months after detoxification, 45.8% had returned to using narcotics. For those who remained off narcotics at 3 months, the VAS abdominal pain score was 75% lower than pretreatment when compared with those who went back on narcotics (24% lower). Successful detoxification and a good clinical response was associated with low abuse potential

4. Pain Med.2016 Jan 11. pii: pnv079. [Epub ahead of print]

Opioid Tapering in Fibromyalgia Patients: Experience from an Interdisciplinary Pain Rehabilitation Program. Cunningham JL a pain diagnosis of fibromyalgia completing a 3-week outpatient interdisciplinary pain rehabilitation program. Opioid tapering analysis included 55 (35%) patients using daily opioids.

METHODS:

Opioid tapering was individualized to each patient based on interdisciplinary pain rehabilitation team determination. Opioid withdrawal symptoms were assessed daily, utilizing the Clinical Opioid Withdrawal Scale.

RESULTS:

Patients taking daily opioids had a morphine equivalent mean dose of 99 mg/day. Patients on < 100 mg/day were tapered off over a mean of 10 days compared with patients on > 200 mg/day over a mean of 28 days (P < 0.001). Differences in peak withdrawal symptoms were not statistically significant based on the mean equivalent dose (P = 22). Patients takingopioids for <2 years did not differ in length of tapering (P =0.63) or peak COWS score (P =0.80) compared with >2 years duration. Patients had significant improvements in pain-related measures including numeric pain scores, depression catastrophizing, health perception, interference with life, and perceived life control at program completion.

5. J Opioid Manag. 2006 Sep-Oct;2(5):277-82.

Significant pain reduction in chronic pain patients after detoxification from high-dose opioids. Baron MJ1, McDonald PW.

Abstract

Opioid tolerance is a well-established phenomenon that often occurs in patients taking opioids for the treatment of chronic pain. Typically, doctors need to periodically elevate patients' opioid doses in an attempt to manage their underlying pain conditions, resulting in escalating opioid levels with only moderate to negligible improvement in pain relief. Recently, opioid-induced hyperalgesia has been recognized as a potential form of central sensitization in which a patient's pain level increases in parallel with elevation of his or her opioid dose. Here, we report a retrospective study of patients undergoing detoxification from high-dose opioids prescribed to treat an underlying chronic pain condition which had not resolved in the year prior. All patients were converted to ibuprofen to manage pain, with a subgroup treated with buprenorphine during detoxification. Self-reports for pain scores were taken at first evaluation, follow-up visits, and termination. Twenty-one of 23 patients reported a significant decrease in pain after detoxification, suggesting that high-dose opioids may contribute to pain sensitization via opioid-induced hyperalgesia, decreasing patient pain threshold and potentially masking resolution of the preexisting pain condition

6. Clin Ther. 2014 Nov 1;36(11):1555-63. doi: 10.1016/j.clinthera.2014.10.013. Epub 2014 Nov 19.

Opioid interruptions, pain, and withdrawal symptoms in nursing home residents.

Redding SE Sixty-six patients receiving opioids were followed for a mean of 10.9 months and experienced a total of 104 acute illnesses. During 64 (62%) illnesses, patients experienced any reduction in opioid dosing, with a mean (SD) dose reduction of 63.9% (29.9%). During 39 (38%) illnesses, patients experienced a significant opioid interruption. In patients with interruptions, there were statistically insignificant changes in mean (SD) pain score (difference -0.50 [2.66]; 95% CI, -3.16 to 2.16) and withdrawal score (difference -0.91 [3.12]; 95% CI, -4.03 to 2.21) after the interruption as compared with before interruption.



OTHER STUDIES:

Farm Hosp. 2014 Sep 16;38(5):411-7 Switching to another opioid while at the same time reducing opioid equivalent dosage by 37% resulted in clinical improvement in VAS (77%) and in adverse effects.

J Opioid Manag. 2012 Sep-Oct;8(5):292-8 High dose opioids in cancer patients rapid detox over 7 days due to tolerance, inefficiency, or hyperalgesia using ketoprofen or ibuprofen and oral lorazepam. Average VAS decreased from 8.3 to 3.6 after detoxification.

Am J Ther. 2006 Sep-Oct;13(5):436-44. For those taking chronic opioids for pain who receive a diagnosis of DSM4 opioid prescription medication dependence, detoxification as an inpatient reduced VAS from 5.5 to a level of 3.4 at discharge over a 5 day detox period.

J Opioid Manag Nov-Dec;11(6):481-8 A community based intervention to reduce the number of opioid prescriptions of Oxycontin to the underserved population in Florida resulted in a 75% reduction in prescribed tablets of Oxycontin, a reduction in hydrocodone and other long acting opioids, without any significant complaints from patients and no significant change in patient satisfaction

Clin J Pain 2014 Feb;30(2):93-101 80% of patients on high dose opioids (MED>50mg) that have significant side effects, reduction in pain effectiveness, reduction in perceived helpfulness, and concerns over long term use will continue high dose opioids after one year. This implies a significant chemical dependence on high dose opioids even when patients want to quit, and unless forced to reduce dosages by their physician, they will not do so.

No, I do not place these in the patient's charts- it doesn't matter if they agree or disagree. Percentage leaving my practice in the Indiana practice- 3%. They are not given any option. Percent on benzos- in Indiana, it was 15%, in Florida it is 60%, but the MED dosages are much lower- around 30mg.
 
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What about nucynta? The nucynta folks state "there is no mme" for nucynta--and yet the PMP site lists mme next to monthly nucynta Rx. What about buprenorphine? How do you handle that?

Bupr is fiscussed in another thread. I use Butrans 5 to 20. No idea what meq it is. But tid Norco with it is still not close to 90 meq.

Nucynta is tricky as well. Some say 0.4meq/mg Nucynta. If i were to base it on receptor binding affinity it would be closer to .07. But it is clearly safer looking at lack of outrage and reported abuse or trafficking compared to conventional opiates. I'm comfortable with a few patients on upto 400mg per day.
 
Bupr is fiscussed in another thread. I use Butrans 5 to 20. No idea what meq it is. But tid Norco with it is still not close to 90 meq.

Nucynta is tricky as well. Some say 0.4meq/mg Nucynta. If i were to base it on receptor binding affinity it would be closer to .07. But it is clearly safer looking at lack of outrage and reported abuse or trafficking compared to conventional opiates. I'm comfortable with a few patients on upto 400mg per day.

Butrans--how often EKG?
 
Bupr is fiscussed in another thread. I use Butrans 5 to 20. No idea what meq it is. But tid Norco with it is still not close to 90 meq.

Nucynta is tricky as well. Some say 0.4meq/mg Nucynta. If i were to base it on receptor binding affinity it would be closer to .07. But it is clearly safer looking at lack of outrage and reported abuse or trafficking compared to conventional opiates. I'm comfortable with a few patients on upto 400mg per day.

What have your patients reported about the effect of norco while using butrans?
 
By my calculations, only 10% of the receptors are occupied using butrans 10mcg/hr patches. This is based on receptor occupancy, the Cmax of butrans at this dosage being 1/3 that of a 2mg buprenorphine SL tablet. The Cmax of 10mcg/hr Butrans is 0.3ng/ml. The Cmax of a 2mg SL buprenorphine is 0.9ng/ml. This means that if only 10% of the receptors are occupied by buprenorphine using the patch, then full opioid agonists should have effectiveness unimpeded by the buprenorphine.
 
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By my calculations, only 10% of the receptors are occupied using butrans 10mcg/hr patches. This is based on receptor occupancy, the Cmax of butrans at this dosage being 1/3 that of a 2mg buprenorphine SL tablet. The Cmax of 10mcg/hr Butrans is 0.3ng/ml. The Cmax of a 2mg SL buprenorphine is 0.9ng/ml. This means that if only 10% of the receptors are occupied by buprenorphine using the patch, then full opioid agonists should have effectiveness unimpeded by the buprenorphine.

Very helpful. What about at max butrans dose of 20mcg/hr?
 
25% receptor occupied at Butrans 20mcg/hr. You really should not see significant declines in the effectiveness of standard opioids until the occupancy is over 50%, which occurs with a Butrans dosage of >40mcg/hr.
 
What have your patients reported about the effect of norco while using butrans?

backed up by algos's helpful data, but my anecdotal experience has been similar to steve. Patients still report that the PRN norco works for breakthrough pain, although in these patients I generally limit them to not more than BID PRN dosing of norco, mainly due to concerns of long-term tolerance.

Also I agree with steve in that the actual mu binding capability of nucynta is far less than the rep would have you believe. I also have no problem with a patient on 500mg of nucynta daily, if they can tolerate the side effects of the NE at that dose.
 
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  1. Pain Med.2015 Jun 27. doi: 10.1111/pme.12812. Clinical Implications of TaperingChronic Opioids in a Veteran Population.Harden P1 A total of 50 patient charts were included in the study. The average percent reduction of opioid doses was 46% over a 12-month period. Seventy percent of patients either experienced no change in pain or had less pain when comparing baseline to 12 months. An equal percentage of patients either had no change in the number of adjuvant medications prescribed or had more adjuvant medications prescribed when comparing baseline to 12 months.
  2. Clin J Pain. 2013 Sep;29(9):760-9. doi: 10.1097/AJP.0b013e31827c7cf6.
Low pain intensity after opioid withdrawal as a first step of a comprehensive pain rehabilitation program predicts long-term nonuse of opioids in chronic noncancer pain. Krumova EK1 One hundred two consecutive patients with severe CNCP despite opioid medication (mean treatment duration, 43 mo) reported pain intensity (numerical rating scale, 0 to 10), Pain Disability Index, mood (CES-D), and quality of life (Short Form 36) before, shortly, and 12 to 24 months after inpatient OW. Total opioid withdrawal (n = 78) or significant dose reduction (DR; n = 24, mean reduction, 82%) was performed after individual decision. Opioid intake 12 to 24 months later, respectively dose increase ≥ 100% (DR group), was considered relapse. T tests, multivariable analysis of variance, logistic regression.

RESULTS:

After OW current pain intensity significantly decreased on an average by 41% (6.4 ± 2.4 vs. 3.8 ± 2.5), maximal and average pain by 18% and 24%, respectively. Twelve to 24 months later 42 patients (41%) relapsed (31 of the total opioid withdrawal group, 6 of the DR group, 5 lost). Patients without later relapse showed significantly lower pain scores than the later relapsed patients already shortly after OW (5.0 ± 2.2 vs. 5.9 ± 2.1) and 12 to 24 months later (5.5 ± 2.4 vs. 6.5 ± 2.0). There was a significant relation between relapse probability and pain intensity immediately after OW.

3. Am J Gastroenterol.2012 Sep;107(9):1426-40. doi: 10.1038/ajg.2012.142. Epub 2012 Jun 19.

Diagnosis, characterization, and 3-month outcome after detoxification of 39 patients with narcotic bowel syndrome.

Drossman DA Of the 39 patients detoxified, 89.7% met predefined criteria. Patients were mostly well educated (14.5 ± 2.3 years of school), female (92.3%), and with a variety of diagnoses (21% irritable bowel syndrome IBS/functional, 37% inflammatory bowel disease and other structural, 29% fibromyalgia and other functional somatic, or orthopedic, and 13% postoperative or other). They reported high health-care use (15.3 ± 10.1 MD visits/6 months; 6.5 ± 6.1 hospitalizations/2 years, 6.4 ± 2.0 surgeries/lifetime), and 82.1% were jobless. Despite high dosages of narcotics (total intravenous (IV) morphine equivalent 75.3 ± 78.0  mg/day), pain scores were rated severe (52.9 ± 28.8 visual analog scale (VAS); 257.1 ± 139.6 functional bowel disorder severity index (FBDSI); 17.2 ± 10.2 (McGill Pain and greater than labor or postoperative pain). Multiple symptoms were reported (n = 17.8 ± 9.2) and rated as moderate to severe. Psychosocial scores showed high catastrophizing (19.9 ± 8.6); poor daily function (Short Form-36 (SF-36) physical 28.3 ± 7.7, mental 34.3 ± 11.0; worse than tetraplegia); 28.2% were clinically depressed and 33.3% anxious (Hospital Anxiety and Depression Scale (HADS)). Detoxification was successfully completed by 89.7%; after detoxification, abdominal pain was reduced by 35% (P < 0.03) and nonabdominal pain by 42% (P < 0.01) on VAS, and catastrophizing significantly improved (P < 0.01). Responder status was met in 56.4% with 48.7% achieving a ≥ 30% reduction in pain. By 3 months after detoxification, 45.8% had returned to using narcotics. For those who remained off narcotics at 3 months, the VAS abdominal pain score was 75% lower than pretreatment when compared with those who went back on narcotics (24% lower). Successful detoxification and a good clinical response was associated with low abuse potential

4. Pain Med.2016 Jan 11. pii: pnv079. [Epub ahead of print]

Opioid Tapering in Fibromyalgia Patients: Experience from an Interdisciplinary Pain Rehabilitation Program. Cunningham JL a pain diagnosis of fibromyalgia completing a 3-week outpatient interdisciplinary pain rehabilitation program. Opioid tapering analysis included 55 (35%) patients using daily opioids.

METHODS:

Opioid tapering was individualized to each patient based on interdisciplinary pain rehabilitation team determination. Opioid withdrawal symptoms were assessed daily, utilizing the Clinical Opioid Withdrawal Scale.

RESULTS:

Patients taking daily opioids had a morphine equivalent mean dose of 99 mg/day. Patients on < 100 mg/day were tapered off over a mean of 10 days compared with patients on > 200 mg/day over a mean of 28 days (P < 0.001). Differences in peak withdrawal symptoms were not statistically significant based on the mean equivalent dose (P = 22). Patients takingopioids for <2 years did not differ in length of tapering (P =0.63) or peak COWS score (P =0.80) compared with >2 years duration. Patients had significant improvements in pain-related measures including numeric pain scores, depression catastrophizing, health perception, interference with life, and perceived life control at program completion.

5. J Opioid Manag. 2006 Sep-Oct;2(5):277-82.

Significant pain reduction in chronic pain patients after detoxification from high-dose opioids. Baron MJ1, McDonald PW.

Abstract

Opioid tolerance is a well-established phenomenon that often occurs in patients taking opioids for the treatment of chronic pain. Typically, doctors need to periodically elevate patients' opioid doses in an attempt to manage their underlying pain conditions, resulting in escalating opioid levels with only moderate to negligible improvement in pain relief. Recently, opioid-induced hyperalgesia has been recognized as a potential form of central sensitization in which a patient's pain level increases in parallel with elevation of his or her opioid dose. Here, we report a retrospective study of patients undergoing detoxification from high-dose opioids prescribed to treat an underlying chronic pain condition which had not resolved in the year prior. All patients were converted to ibuprofen to manage pain, with a subgroup treated with buprenorphine during detoxification. Self-reports for pain scores were taken at first evaluation, follow-up visits, and termination. Twenty-one of 23 patients reported a significant decrease in pain after detoxification, suggesting that high-dose opioids may contribute to pain sensitization via opioid-induced hyperalgesia, decreasing patient pain threshold and potentially masking resolution of the preexisting pain condition

6. Clin Ther. 2014 Nov 1;36(11):1555-63. doi: 10.1016/j.clinthera.2014.10.013. Epub 2014 Nov 19.

Opioid interruptions, pain, and withdrawal symptoms in nursing home residents.

Redding SE Sixty-six patients receiving opioids were followed for a mean of 10.9 months and experienced a total of 104 acute illnesses. During 64 (62%) illnesses, patients experienced any reduction in opioid dosing, with a mean (SD) dose reduction of 63.9% (29.9%). During 39 (38%) illnesses, patients experienced a significant opioid interruption. In patients with interruptions, there were statistically insignificant changes in mean (SD) pain score (difference -0.50 [2.66]; 95% CI, -3.16 to 2.16) and withdrawal score (difference -0.91 [3.12]; 95% CI, -4.03 to 2.21) after the interruption as compared with before interruption.



OTHER STUDIES:

Farm Hosp. 2014 Sep 16;38(5):411-7 Switching to another opioid while at the same time reducing opioid equivalent dosage by 37% resulted in clinical improvement in VAS (77%) and in adverse effects.

J Opioid Manag. 2012 Sep-Oct;8(5):292-8 High dose opioids in cancer patients rapid detox over 7 days due to tolerance, inefficiency, or hyperalgesia using ketoprofen or ibuprofen and oral lorazepam. Average VAS decreased from 8.3 to 3.6 after detoxification.

Am J Ther. 2006 Sep-Oct;13(5):436-44. For those taking chronic opioids for pain who receive a diagnosis of DSM4 opioid prescription medication dependence, detoxification as an inpatient reduced VAS from 5.5 to a level of 3.4 at discharge over a 5 day detox period.

J Opioid Manag Nov-Dec;11(6):481-8 A community based intervention to reduce the number of opioid prescriptions of Oxycontin to the underserved population in Florida resulted in a 75% reduction in prescribed tablets of Oxycontin, a reduction in hydrocodone and other long acting opioids, without any significant complaints from patients and no significant change in patient satisfaction

Clin J Pain 2014 Feb;30(2):93-101 80% of patients on high dose opioids (MED>50mg) that have significant side effects, reduction in pain effectiveness, reduction in perceived helpfulness, and concerns over long term use will continue high dose opioids after one year. This implies a significant chemical dependence on high dose opioids even when patients want to quit, and unless forced to reduce dosages by their physician, they will not do so.

No, I do not place these in the patient's charts- it doesn't matter if they agree or disagree. Percentage leaving my practice in the Indiana practice- 3%. They are not given any option. Percent on benzos- in Indiana, it was 15%, in Florida it is 60%, but the MED dosages are much lower- around 30mg.


Why are "fibro" patients being placed on opioids in the first place? Don't get that.

Its a fake diagnosis anyway. They just really need Behavorial therapy and possibly some PT
 
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Saw many pts with Dr Mackey.

It should be illegal to have an IQ that high, and while he's clearly on the spectrum and in many ways lives in a fantasy world, he is an academic monster and benefits society in many ways.
 
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Why was 101N banned?

You know how the water board puts out a memo about all the physicians who lost their license?

SDN should do the same and put the reasons why with a link to the posts that did them in.
 
Honest question - is there any room nowadays do create a track where patients are kept under a reasonable amount of MME provided they sign a contract, do regular UDS, use multimodal etc?

Or will it bite me in the a** because the courts and attorneys won’t understand the difference between 20 MME and 200 MME?

Also, what to do about all the pharmacies being out of it?
 
Honest question - is there any room nowadays do create a track where patients are kept under a reasonable amount of MME provided they sign a contract, do regular UDS, use multimodal etc?

Or will it bite me in the a** because the courts and attorneys won’t understand the difference between 20 MME and 200 MME?

Also, what to do about all the pharmacies being out of it?
I have patients on Butrans and Nucynta and Tramadol. I hope the feds don’t come after me.
 
I have a small percentage of pts on Norco, and a couple of ppl on Percocet.

It is in fact appropriate for a select number of pts, and there ARE a number of pts for whom denying low dose opiates to could be considered cruel.

Sean Mackey's heart is in the right place, and I've yet to come across anyone on this board who sits down at a table across from him and wins this debate.
 
I have plenty of patients on opioids. Mostly under 90mme. Not only defensible, but patients moe functional. Treat the folks who are benefitting and stop treating with opiates if they are not demonstrating improved function.

4A's
4C's.
Every time.
 
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I have plenty of patients on opioids. Mostly under 90mme. Not only defensible, but patients moe functional. Treat the folks who are benefitting and stop treating with opiates if they are not demonstrating improved function.

4A's
4C's.
Every time.
4 Cs?
 
in his defense, you havent mentioned the exact definition of the 4 C's in a long time, and ive kind of lumped them to the 5 As - activity, adverse reaction, analgesia, affect, and aberrant behavior including addiction.
 
I don't see how anyone is going to outright reject opiates as a general rule of thumb.

These 83 yo pts with severe spinal disease and have trouble walking...WTF yall?

Many of those pts will die in the next few years, and for some of them a little bit of opiate makes a difference.

I want my mother to have that Rx if she's in that boat.
 
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I don't see how anyone is going to outright reject opiates as a general rule of thumb.

These 83 yo pts with severe spinal disease and have trouble walking...WTF yall?

Many of those pts will die in the next few years, and for some of them a little bit of opiate makes a difference.

I want my mother to have that Rx if she's in that boat.

Agree. Elderly patients that fail conservative care but are not surgical candidates, are generally safe for low dose standard opioids, it it really improves their function and QOL.
 
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I do what I consider a reasonable amount of opioid management. Highest dose is perc 10/325 qid. He came to me on q4h and xanax bid, asking for help weaning down. Got him off benzos completely and slowly bringing down the MME. Most of my pts are less than 40 MME, no benzos, no sleeping pills, always try tramadol first and have successfully gotten lots of people to switch from full agonists to bupe. Always looking at QOL and functional metrics, always looking for 5 As.

Compared the the s***show I was dealing with at my last academic gig, this is nothing.
 
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I do what I consider a reasonable amount of opioid management. Highest dose is perc 10/325 qid. He came to me on q4h and xanax bid, asking for help weaning down. Got him off benzos completely and slowly bringing down the MME. Most of my pts are less than 40 MME, no benzos, no sleeping pills, always try tramadol first and have successfully gotten lots of people to switch from full agonists to bupe. Always looking at QOL and functional metrics, always looking for 5 As.

Compared the the s***show I was dealing with at my last academic gig, this is nothing.

this is excellent medical treatment. kudos to you. i am glad someone is willing to do this work

i personally find that sort of work tedious, non gratifying, not appreciated, argumentative, potentially dangerous to myself and staff, and not remunerated well
 
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I do what I consider a reasonable amount of opioid management. Highest dose is perc 10/325 qid. He came to me on q4h and xanax bid, asking for help weaning down. Got him off benzos completely and slowly bringing down the MME. Most of my pts are less than 40 MME, no benzos, no sleeping pills, always try tramadol first and have successfully gotten lots of people to switch from full agonists to bupe. Always looking at QOL and functional metrics, always looking for 5 As.

Compared the the s***show I was dealing with at my last academic gig, this is nothing.
Great post.
 
i was trained in a high-opioid environment and did reasonable opioid management in my last solo-gig. Over time, I have come to realize that virtually every single patient that takes opioids eventually will cause you problems. Even the sweet little old lady with on a couple norcos will eventually have a turn for the worse and no longer be a good candidate for medical reasons, will need surgery for something unexpected, will forget to take her pills or take too many, or maybe the grandson comes over and takes most of her pills. Maybe her caregiver is skimming off the top. Maybe this sweet little old lady finds out that she can sell half of them to double her small fixed income. And this is your good opioid patient.

On top of that, I have yet to see long-term functional improvement in any chronic opioid patient. They WILL say they have improvement, but that has not been objectively seen in my experience. Yes, they may say the opioids allow them to keep their job, but usually they would keep it anyway. In fact, it's usually the patient's who are taking opioids who want disability, not the ones who aren't on them. They may say they can do their hobby or play with their grandchildren where they couldn't before opioids, but this only lasts until tolerance develops and they need more.

Of course, they WILL have worse function if they stop opioids (and didn't want to). But this really means you are treating dependence, not pain.

Add in the paperwork and legal issues and all this for a 99214. No thank you.
 
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Soooooo many generalizations in this thread.
 
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