Second Arkansas DO school planned

[user3]

Arkansas College of Osteopathic Medicine (Fort Smith, AR)
http://swtimes.com/news/fort-smith-help-pave-way-medical-college
http://arkansasnews.com/news/arkansas/ceo-says-community-effort-needed-fort-smith-medical-school

The other is NYIT-COM's Arkansas State branch campus (Jonesboro, AR). Here is a recent update for anyone interested- http://kasu.org/post/higher-educati...-state-universitys-osteopathic-medical-school

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[EMDO2018]

Arkansas needs a DO school, so do all the other states with NO or 1 med school.

 

[user3]

Arkansas needs a DO school, so do all the other states with NO or 1 med school.

but 2 DO schools?

 

[EMDO2018]

but 2 DO schools?

2 probably won't happen

 

[Ogmora]

I'd send one of the two to a state like Mass, CT or Minnesota...somewhere they can continue to build a good reputation among well known medical schools...then again, I'm sure Mayo, Yale and HMS have locked down any chance of another med school opening up, be it DO or MD.

 

[NurWollen]

I'd send one of the two to a state like Mass, CT or Minnesota...somewhere they can continue to build a good reputation among well known medical schools...then again, I'm sure Mayo, Yale and HMS have locked down any chance of another med school opening up, be it DO or MD.

Delaware might be a good place for that. No med school currently, but still on the northeast coast where it would be nice for DOs to make inroads.

If I were starting a DO school, it would be in Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, maybe even Alaska. Anchorage has 300k+ residents. Wyoming has a small population but you could put it in Cheyenne which isn't far from major metro areas in CO. Idaho is the largest state population wise without a med school.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'd send one of the two to a state like Mass, CT or Minnesota...somewhere they can continue to build a good reputation among well known medical schools...then again, I'm sure Mayo, Yale and HMS have locked down any chance of another med school opening up, be it DO or MD.

Yale didn't stop Quinnipiac from opening. Western Mass might be a decent spot for a new DO school in MA, but the Boston area is saturated.

 

[hallowmann]

I wouldn't be surprised if UNECOM would fight against a new DO school in New England though.

In terms of these new Arkansas schools, wake me up when they get to the point of actually accepting apps. Until then, too much can go wrong for me to get worked up about DO expansion.

Everyone went crazy when 2 Utah DO schools were proposed, lo and behold, 0 opened. Utah could actually use a DO school.

 

[NurWollen]

I wouldn't be surprised if UNECOM would fight against a new DO school in New England though.

In terms of these new Arkansas schools, wake me up when they get to the point of actually accepting apps. Until then, too much can go wrong for me to get worked up about DO expansion.

Everyone went crazy when 2 Utah DO schools were proposed, lo and behold, 0 opened. Utah could actually use a DO school.

Does anyone have any updates on these Utah DO school projects? They're both featured on the Utah Osteopathic Association website.

 

[hallowmann]

Does anyone have any updates on these Utah DO school projects? They're both featured on the Utah Osteopathic Association website.

That hasn't changed in at least a year. Word here at LECOM is that progress for its branch is stuck and may be dead in the water. Nothing official, just what people have heard.

Not really sure what happened, but DO schools get proposed all the time, but many never materialize.

Every year we have a handful of students from Utah. Given the number of med schools in and around Utah, I doubt either would have an issue filling their class with competitive students.

 

[TheFuture_22]

The Arkansas State one is a great idea because it is a solid state school, and the delta area currently has one of the worst physician shortages in the nation. I do wish they didn't need the help of NYIT to open though because the name will be very confusing to people. My prediction is that the ASU one will eventually happen and the Fort Smith one probably won't happen.

 

[Ogmora]

@NurWollen
U Del COM would sound pretty good to me. As does a Boise State COM. Both schools have relatively good reputations and would definitely make good impressions for the DO community.

@Mad Jack
Amherst, MA maybe? But like hallowman said, UNECOM would probably fight against anything DO in new england.

@FutureDO22 - I don't like the idea of the NYIT branch either and especially in Arkansas of all places? Hopefully the ASU one sticks and the NYIT moves to Syracuse or something in NY that actually makes sense.

Also, I hear there are plenty of DO students from BYU. Many of which prefer to go DO over MD. One could probably make the case that BYU would be a good sponsor for a new school, rather than opening another branch campus.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

@NurWollen
U Del COM would sound pretty good to me. As does a Boise State COM. Both schools have relatively good reputations and would definitely make good impressions for the DO community.

You're clearly basing your opinion on Boise State on their football program. Both University of Idaho and Idaho State are more well known for their academics, Idaho State has a PA school, U of I has a Law school. Boise State's graduate programs are sub par when I was going their I think the choices were Raptor Biology or Metaphysics.

I digress though, Idaho could definitely use a medical school.

 

[user3]

2 probably won't happen

The Arkansas State one is a great idea because it is a solid state school, and the delta area currently has one of the worst physician shortages in the nation. I do wish they didn't need the help of NYIT to open though because the name will be very confusing to people. My prediction is that the ASU one will eventually happen and the Fort Smith one probably won't happen.

VCOM-Auburn still managed to open despite some decent opposition.

And yes, NYIT was a horrible choice for the ASU school. And the idea that altruistic NYIT plans to help solve the delta PCP shortage by opening a private branch campus and charging over $50k for tuition? Please.

 

[user3]

@NurWollen
U Del COM would sound pretty good to me. As does a Boise State COM. Both schools have relatively good reputations and would definitely make good impressions for the DO community.

As we have seen with ASU, NMSU, and Auburn, public universities do not want to directly support new DO programs.

 

[EMDO2018]

Flexner Report time for DO schools

 

[NurWollen]

You're clearly basing your opinion on Boise State on their football program. Both University of Idaho and Idaho State are more well known for their academics, Idaho State has a PA school, U of I has a Law school. Boise State's graduate programs are sub par when I was going their I think the choices were Raptor Biology or Metaphysics.

I digress though, Idaho could definitely use a medical school.

I agree... ISU already has a PA school, a family medicine residency, and 1st year Creighton University dental students taking basic sciences there. U of I believe has 1st year UW med students on campus as well.

Then again, there is something to be said for having a DO school at a famous football school. When I tell laymen where I go to med school, I get a totally different reaction than I would if I said I go to Oklahoma State or Michigan State. Not that that really matters, though.

As we have seen with ASU, NMSU, and Auburn, public universities do not want to directly support new DO programs.

Alas, this is probably true, unfortunately. It's a shame, too, because DO schools would probably cost the taxpayers much less than MD programs.

 

[NurWollen]

@NurWollen
U Del COM would sound pretty good to me. As does a Boise State COM. Both schools have relatively good reputations and would definitely make good impressions for the DO community.

@Mad Jack
Amherst, MA maybe? But like hallowman said, UNECOM would probably fight against anything DO in new england.

@FutureDO22 - I don't like the idea of the NYIT branch either and especially in Arkansas of all places? Hopefully the ASU one sticks and the NYIT moves to Syracuse or something in NY that actually makes sense.

Also, I hear there are plenty of DO students from BYU. Many of which prefer to go DO over MD. One could probably make the case that BYU would be a good sponsor for a new school, rather than opening another branch campus.

BYU has said over and over again that they aren't interested in starting a med school, fearing it would be a money sink. It's interesting though, as far as DO schools go they could probably charge half as much tuition as most other DO schools and still be in the black. Their former President who just retired in May is a U of U grad MD, whose brother is an admin and pulmonologist at Utah SOM... so maybe BYU has the same anti-DO thing as the UofU, I don't know. Pure conjecture.

 

[user3]

I agree... ISU already has a PA school, a family medicine residency, and 1st year Creighton University dental students taking basic sciences there. U of I believe has 1st year UW med students on campus as well.

Then again, there is something to be said for having a DO school at a famous football school. When I tell laymen where I go to med school, I get a totally different reaction than I would if I said I go to Oklahoma State or Michigan State. Not that that really matters, though.



Alas, this is probably true, unfortunately. It's a shame, too, because DO schools would probably cost the taxpayers much less than MD programs.

I think ASU really dropped the ball choosing NYIT to help open its school.

As for the Burrell COM in New Mexico. If its (billionaire) founder seriously wanted to help solve the PCP shortage in NM, why couldn't he donate to NMSU to help open a DO school, starting with a small class on full scholarships and growing to around 100 students? That would seem more sensible than a school that will be freestanding, for-profit, high tuition, with a 150 to eventually 300 student class. It screams of desire for $$$, rather than a genuine desire to solve a primary care shortage and to create a genuine academic institution.

 

[TheFuture_22]

VCOM-Auburn still managed to open despite some decent opposition.

And yes, NYIT was a horrible choice for the ASU school. And idea that altruistic NYIT plans to help solve the delta PCP shortage by opening a private branch campus and charging over $50k for tuition? Please.

I wasn't saying they were being altruistic, just that the delta area has a huge physician shortage and this will help with that.

 

[user3]

I wasn't saying they were being altruistic, just that the delta area has a huge physician shortage and this will help with that.

You didn't say that, I was just scoffing at any notion of NYIT doing this out of altruism.

But anyway, AFAIK their tuition will be the same as NYITCOM main campus. Such a level of debt won't incentivize the rural PCP route very well.

 

[EMDO2018]

Delaware might be a good place for that. No med school currently, but still on the northeast coast where it would be nice for DOs to make inroads.

If I were starting a DO school, it would be in Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, maybe even Alaska. Anchorage has 300k+ residents. Wyoming has a small population but you could put it in Cheyenne which isn't far from major metro areas in CO. Idaho is the largest state population wise without a med school.

Yeah but Sarah Palin Lives in Anchorage Alaska and her family of redneck thugs will jump you http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sara...ly-alaska-house-party-brawl/story?id=25452917

 

[Goro]

"Open as early as 2016"?

A tad optimistic.

Arkansas College of Osteopathic Medicine (Fort Smith, AR)
http://swtimes.com/news/fort-smith-help-pave-way-medical-college
http://arkansasnews.com/news/arkansas/ceo-says-community-effort-needed-fort-smith-medical-school

The other is NYIT-COM's Arkansas State branch campus (Jonesboro, AR). Here is a recent update for anyone interested- http://kasu.org/post/higher-educati...-state-universitys-osteopathic-medical-school

 

[Silent Cool]

I'm opening a DO school in my backyard.

 

[DrEnderW]

I'm opening a DO school in my backyard.

Is your backyard in a rural location and do you not mind filling it with "academic" OMM faculty that don't believe in promoting research in their own specialty?

But in all seriousness, I think something like 15 MD schools opened since 2009... So there's hardly only DO expansion going on. I think something like 14 DOs opened since the early 2000s, I but don't have the numbers ATM (it gets obscured with colleges not counting branch campuses). It's my understanding the numbers are roughly similar? This was from a AAMC pub on Hopkins website.

Wiki has a less official list with an even MD/DO split roughly, including planned schools.

 

[Silent Cool]

Is your backyard in a rural location and do you not mind filling it with "academic" OMM faculty that don't believe in promoting research in their own specialty?

But in all seriousness, I think something like 15 MD schools opened since 2009... So there's hardly only DO expansion going on. I think something like 14 DOs opened since the early 2000s, I but don't have the numbers ATM (it gets obscured with colleges not counting branch campuses). It's my understanding the numbers are roughly similar? This was from a AAMC pub on Hopkins website.

Wiki has a less official list with an even MD/DO split roughly, including planned schools.

Pretty much.

Who the F&*$ else would work there?

 

[hallowmann]

Is your backyard in a rural location and do you not mind filling it with "academic" OMM faculty that don't believe in promoting research in their own specialty?

But in all seriousness, I think something like 15 MD schools opened since 2009... So there's hardly only DO expansion going on. I think something like 14 DOs opened since the early 2000s, I but don't have the numbers ATM (it gets obscured with colleges not counting branch campuses). It's my understanding the numbers are roughly similar? This was from a AAMC pub on Hopkins website.

Wiki has a less official list with an even MD/DO split roughly, including planned schools.

Yeah, actually I think total MD expansion since 2006 is a bit more, seat-wise than DO expansion. There are also some newer MD schools that have rotations set up like DO schools have it (good or bad).

 

[user3]

But in all seriousness, I think something like 15 MD schools opened since 2009... So there's hardly only DO expansion going on. I think something like 14 DOs opened since the early 2000s, I but don't have the numbers ATM (it gets obscured with colleges not counting branch campuses). It's my understanding the numbers are roughly similar? This was from a AAMC pub on Hopkins website.

Wiki has a less official list with an even MD/DO split roughly, including planned schools.

MD expansion: UCF, FIU, FAU, Texas, WMU, CMU, Quinnipiac, Rowan U, TCMC, UT-RGV, UCR, Hofstra, Oakland, USC-Greenville, UA-Phoenix, Texas Tech, VT

meanwhile...

DO expansion: VCOM-Campus #3, LECOM-Campus #3, Touro Campus #4, Campbell, Marian, WCU, PNWU, ACOM, Western-Campus #2, NYITCOM-Campus #2, Rocky Vista, LUCOM

need I say more?

 

[IamaBanana]

@NurWollen
U Del COM would sound pretty good to me. As does a Boise State COM. Both schools have relatively good reputations and would definitely make good impressions for the DO community.

@Mad Jack
Amherst, MA maybe? But like hallowman said, UNECOM would probably fight against anything DO in new england.

@FutureDO22 - I don't like the idea of the NYIT branch either and especially in Arkansas of all places? Hopefully the ASU one sticks and the NYIT moves to Syracuse or something in NY that actually makes sense.

Also, I hear there are plenty of DO students from BYU. Many of which prefer to go DO over MD. One could probably make the case that BYU would be a good sponsor for a new school, rather than opening another branch campus.

As far as MA goes, I would be curious to see Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences open a COM. They already go by an alphabet soup name, so MCPHS-COM doesn't sounds ridiculous. It's a state funded college with doctoral degrees and facilities in place in Boston and Worcester. Moving towards Worcester or even opening up further in Amherst like you said would be feasible. There might be pressure against it from UMass and UNECOM which could kill it outright, though.

 

[DrEnderW]

MD expansion: UCF, FIU, FAU, Texas, WMU, CMU, Quinnipiac, Rowan U, TCMC, UT-RGV, UCR, Hofstra

meanwhile...

DO expansion: VCOM-Campus #3, LECOM-Campus #3, Touro Campus #4, Campbell, Marian, William Carey, PNWU, ACOM, Western-Campus #2, NYITCOM-Campus #2, Rocky Vista, LUCOM

need I say more?

I guess I wasn't commenting on the education model or university association, just the number of schools. It's about time Austin got a med school. Hofstra will have a strong program in a few years with the Long Island Jewish system too. LIJ and Sinai are snatching up hospitals all over the greater NYC area monopoly style.

I'm not a huge fan of the continued branch expansion. It's my understanding that it is a method to skirt the formal COCA accreditation process as it piggybacks off the mother school's accreditation, especially if the curriculum is similar.

 

[user3]

I guess I wasn't commenting on the education model or university association, just the number of schools. It's about time Austin got a med school. Hofstra will have a strong program in a few years with the Long Island Jewish system too. LIJ and Sinai are snatching up hospitals all over the greater NYC area monopoly style.

I'm not a huge fan of the continued branch expansion. It's my understanding that it is a method to skirt the formal COCA accreditation process as it piggybacks off the mother school's accreditation, especially if the curriculum is similar.

The way DO schools are expanding is making them look more like $$ making schemes and less like legitimate academic institutions. This isn't so much the case with MD schools. I feel this hurts our image, and as future holders of DO degrees, we should take issue with this.

 

[DrEnderW]

The way DO schools are expanding is making them look more like $$ making schemes and less like legitimate academic institutions. Not the case with MD schools. This hurts our image, and as future holders of DO degrees, we should take issue with this.

I completely agree. That is what our MD and basic science colleagues will see it as too. However, the public argument for DO expansion, creating more compassionate, well-rounded primary care doctors with a focus on underserved/rural areas, is marketing genius.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Even though there may be some set backs, I do appreciate that in expanding DO medical schools, more people are becoming familiar with DO physicians.

 

[shojimoji]

I feel a state that doesn't have a med school could use it, JMO.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

Delaware might be a good place for that. No med school currently, but still on the northeast coast where it would be nice for DOs to make inroads.

If I were starting a DO school, it would be in Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, maybe even Alaska. Anchorage has 300k+ residents. Wyoming has a small population but you could put it in Cheyenne which isn't far from major metro areas in CO. Idaho is the largest state population wise without a med school.

Delaware is an excellent idea...but that makes too much sense which means it won't happen. Instead, they'll build a school in a state with 5 medical schools already (....cough....Liberty COM)

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

The way DO schools are expanding is making them look more like $$ making schemes and less like legitimate academic institutions. This isn't so much the case with MD schools. I feel this hurts our image, and as future holders of DO degrees, we should take issue with this.

Because COMs are and always have been private for the most part this is always the case. I would love to see more schools affiliated w/ large universities instead of just private funding. But alot of the newer MD schools (TCMC for example) and a lot of the new ones to open up are private.

 

[user3]

Because COMs are and always have been private for the most part this is always the case. I would love to see more schools affiliated w/ large universities instead of just private funding. But alot of the newer MD schools (TCMC for example) and a lot of the new ones to open up are private.

It is not a simple matter of public vs private. DO schools can self-fund entirely via tuition and make a killing. MD schools, public or private, must have funding from a variety of sources.

 

[Robin des Bois]

Do med schools in the US pop up like mushrooms?

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

Do med schools in the US pop up like mushrooms?

No....many are turned down. There has been a recent increase in Both D.O. and M.D. schools, but there were years (I think even decades without a new MD school). A lot of the newer D.O. schools are also branch campuses that use the same curriculum

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

I completely agree. That is what our MD and basic science colleagues will see it as too. However, the public argument for DO expansion, creating more compassionate, well-rounded primary care doctors with a focus on underserved/rural areas, is marketing genius.

And you just described VCOM's two new branch campuses haha. What I do like about VCOM though is they are pairing the schools w/ big universities. Virginia Tech and Auburn. It has provided myself and I know other students with some great research opportunities and some the new Auburn campus is really cool

 

[user3]

.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

With the ACOM/AMEC rotation setup in place and strong opposition from the state osteopathic association, there is no defense for VCOM expanding to AL, university campus or not. And 160 students is absurd for an inaugural class size, let alone for a 3rd campus. All new DO schools should start between 50-100 MAX.

VCOM isn't expanding to Alabama University....I think you either had a typo or maybe you mean that VCOM shouldn't expand to Auburn not sure. I understand your concern with rotation sites either way though. That is something that always concerns me with any new schools. To be honest I'm not sure what hospitals VCOM will affiliate with down there, but VCOM has posted on their website they have already established sites down there. There are plenty of sites in South carolina as well. They have established new sites recently. Also, aren't there enough hospitals around Auburn that ACOM wouldn't be affected?

As for the quality, with something new like this, who knows. I would hope that the preceptors are great but we all know this will take time. The hospitals certainly look nice, they are more than just run of the mill community hospitals I can say that.

As for the 160 students, I could be wrong but I think all the campuses get approved by COCA together, which states that between 160-200 students per class, regardless of campus. I would hope both schools could be supported

 

[Jumpstartmy5HT]

I'd send one of the two to a state like Mass, CT or Minnesota...somewhere they can continue to build a good reputation among well known medical schools...then again, I'm sure Mayo, Yale and HMS have locked down any chance of another med school opening up, be it DO or MD.

Yale is all over CT. It'll be hard for another med school to get any clinical affiliations in CT with there being 3 medical schools in a small state.