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Second time around....

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - DO' started by DrFitness, Jul 25, 2001.

  1. DrFitness

    DrFitness Junior Member

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    I am applying for the second year and getting ready to take the MCAT one more time. My last score was a 20. I graduated with a 3.4 GPA, and pursued post-bacc courses in o-chem and biochem. I have glowing recommendation letters.

    In addition, I am a personal trainer and massage therapist, own my own business, and get most of my client base from physical rehab clinics here in the Atlanta area.

    I applied to 8 schools and received secondaries from 4 of them. What are my chances of getting in the second time around. It has to happen this time. I'm 34.

    Thanks for any help.
     
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  3. DrFitness

    DrFitness Junior Member

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    I also must add that, thanks to busy professors, my reviews and applications did not get out until late December. I know this did not help.
     
  4. Matrix

    Matrix Member
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    Just wondering, may I ask from which schools you got your secondaries from??
    I'm waiting for mine too.
     
  5. Matrix

    Matrix Member
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    Oh, and by the way, to answer your original question. Although I've never known anyone get accepted with your stats, I certainly heard of few people getting accepted to DO schools with 19 and low 20's on this forum. But I think majority of these people had an extremely high GPA (>3.85)
    Hey! but you never know! this whole process works in mysterious ways. If there's something that stands out, I think you can at least make it to the interview!

    Good luck!
     
  6. DrFitness

    DrFitness Junior Member

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    I received secondaries from PCOM, NSUCOM, KCOM, and WUCOM.
     
  7. wren1976

    wren1976 Member
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    It might have had something to do with timing - I'd advise you get everything (meaning secondaries) out by September at the latest if you can help it. By December they'll have already done half of the interviews. Good luck.
     
  8. DrFitness

    DrFitness Junior Member

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    Thanks for the replies and encouragement.
     
  9. birdflysatnite

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    HEY, IF YOU HAVE A 20 ON THE MCAT, WHAT IS YOUR SCORE IN VERBAL. ILL TELL YOU THIS: IF YOU HAVE BELOW A 7, YOU WILL NOT GET IN. I APPLIED TO PCOM AND HAD A 21 AND GOT AN INTERVIEW AFTER ALOT OF PESTERING, AND FINALLY WAS TOLD THAT THEY NO LONGER TAKE ANYONE WITH LESS THAN A 7 IN VERBAL. I HAD A 5. TERRIBLE, I KNOW. BUT IT ALL WORKED OUT BECAUSE I AM GOING TO LECOM THIS FALL. GOOD LUCK AND HERE'S SOME GREAT ADVICE: IF YOU REALLY WANT TO DO THIS, SHOW THE SCHOOL YOUR DESIRE BY SENDINF LETTERS, CALL ALL THE TIME AND BUG THE **** OUT OF THEM. THATS IS THE ONLY WAY THEY ARE GOING TO KNOW HOW SERIOUS YOU ARE!
     
  10. nycom@juno.com

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    drfitness:

    "In addition, I am a personal trainer and massage therapist, own my own business, and get most of my client base from physical rehab clinics here in the Atlanta area."--prev. post. drfitness.

    placing myself in the shoes of an admissions reviewer: i wouldn't care which business you owned, or how many people you massaged. your knowledge of basic science information (i.e., general physics, college level general and organic chemistry, and basic biology), as demonstrated in your MCAT performance is deplorable!

    it should be more significant for you to worry about improving your score (and improving your MCAT score considerably above 20 points since you're 34 years of age) instead of how applying on one previous occasion with such an insulting score would affect your candidacy in subsequent application cycles.
     
  11. nycom@juno.com

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    "IF YOU REALLY WANT TO DO THIS, SHOW THE SCHOOL YOUR DESIRE BY SENDINF LETTERS, CALL ALL THE TIME AND BUG THE **** OUT OF THEM. THATS IS THE ONLY WAY THEY ARE GOING TO KNOW HOW SERIOUS YOU ARE!"--posted above.

    that's absurd advice. if you want to "show [med. schools] your desire," then dedicate more effort towards scoring higher on the medical school entrance examination. give yourself a reason to be proud of your aptitude, and never give your peers any reason to question the legitimacy of your acceptance to any medical program. don't "bug the s**t out of [admissions committees]; that's bad etiquette for several obvious reasons.
     
  12. birdflysatnite

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    NYCOM, YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE IDIOTS THAT THINK THAT MCAT SCORES ARE EVERYTHING. IF YOU ARE IN MED SCHOOL YOU PROBABLY ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF YOUR CLASS OR IF YOU ARE GOING THAT ATTITUDE WILL DEFINITELY PUT YOU RIGHT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PILE. YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY, AND READ THIS CAREFULLY!!! MCAT SCORES ARE IMPORTANT, YOU DO NEED INTELLIGENCE. hE HAS A 20 AND EVEN THOUGH THAT MAY BE LOW, HE HAS A CHANCE. SOMEONE'S DESIRE AND AMBITION WILL MAKE THEM SUCCESSFUL IN THE MEDICAL FIELD AND IN LIFE, NOT JUST GREAT SCORES ON THE MCATS. LETTING THE ADMISSIONS COMMITTEE KNOW THAT YOU CARE IS NOT BAD ETIQUETTE!!!! I WISH THERE WERE MORE PEOPLE THAT SHOWED ENTHUSIASM AND NOT SOMEONE LIKE YOU WHO IS PROBABLY COLD HEARTED! I THINK YOU HAVE SOME THINKING TO DO ABOUT YOU DEPLORABLE ATTITUDE!!!! IF DRFITNESS WANTS IT BAD ENOUGH, HE WILL GET IN! PEOPLE LIKE YOU WON'T STOP HIM. GOOD LUCK TO YOU DRFITNESS AND DISREGARD THE BABBLING OF THIS MORON.
     
  13. nycom@juno.com

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    wow. someone should definitely edit the unnecessary rubbish out of your posts.
     
  14. Amra

    Amra A Quiet Voice of Reason
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    Things that I have gotten from reading these forums for the last few weeks...

    There is no magic formula of MCAT x GPA that will get you in (well, maybe the upper extreme ;) ).

    There have been postings of peeps getting mid-30's on MCAT with high 3.xx GPAs and not getting in. I personally know someone who is a doctor now (from PCOM) that got a 16 on his MCAT. He has graduated and has a practice [I went to HS and undergrad with him]. I know people in other xxCOMs with <20 on MCAT.

    It seems the only magic formula is to present yourself to the admissions committee as a unique candidate.

    Osteopathic medicine is concerned with treating the whole person. My impression (so far - based on conversations with my school's predmed advisors, DOs, and posts on this forum) is that Admissions' peeps use a similiar criteria for acceptance. Combinations of MCAT, GPA, Volunteer work, Life experience, clinical experience, exposure to osteopathic philosophy, etc, etc. are weighed for a candidate.

    As posted here in various posts, it seems that Admissions is interested in forming well rounded classes with a lot of diversity. Some old, some young. Some 4.0, some 3.0. Different ethnicities. Different undergrad majors. Different geographic locations. 35 MCAT, 19MCAT. etc, etc.

    This is my goal in applying for Class of 2006 (Fall 2k2 start)... To answer the questions of:

    "What makes me unique over all the other candidates applying to this school?"
    "Why would I make an outstanding doctor?" (different than #1)
    "What strengths do I have that would make the Class of 2006 the most solid, well rounded class of xxCOM?"
    "What can I give back to the medical school that would warrant them wanting me as student/alumni?"
    ....and I'll probally add to the list as I continue through the application process....

    I am thinking along these line because TBH, there is more to me than ##'s. By thinking along these lines, I can present my best case to Admission committees. Ultimately, it is my responsibility to do all I can to "increase my viability as a candidate" for medical school. And to that end, I am dedicated...

    I'll keep ya'll posted as to how it goes! (fingers and toes crossed) :eek:


    Definition of Insanity = doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results

    (hope I helped)
    -A
     
  15. DrFitness

    DrFitness Junior Member

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    I believe that having my own wellness company makes me a unique candidate for becoming an osteopathic student/physician. Thanks to those who applaud diversity, creative pursuits, and ambition.
     
  16. beakerbetty

    beakerbetty Member
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  17. Matrix

    Matrix Member
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    birdflysatnite

    Hey! I thought once you get to the interview stage, GPA or MCAT didn't matter!?
    I'm pretty sure that there was something that stood out from your application that compensated your poor verbal score + make the cut to the interview. Maybe your rejection was due to a poor interview and not specifically due to your verbal score (although this could have also been a factor). Hmmm, like I said, this whole process works in mysterious ways!

    But who cares, you're going to become a doctor anyway!! Best of luck!
     
  18. sean

    sean Senior Member
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    I hope that I never have to see a doctor with NYCOM's attitude, just another example that grades are not the only thing necessary to make a good doctor. Grades alone are not the key but they are definitly a major factor. Dr.Fitness, just like you I am in my mid thirties and a qualified massage therapist. I am glad to read that you plan to take the MCAT again. It sounds like you have a real busy life which is perhaps part of the problem. The reason medical schools look for MCAT/grades is that doctors are essentially repositories for knowledge. They are the ones expected to sift through volumes of information for correct diagnosis. We as applicants have to prove that we can do this and the only way medical schools have to judge this aspect of our ability is through our college record. You have very strong other qualities to recommend you so if you can do well on your next MCAT you should have no problem. Perhaps it might be worth it to reduce all other non essential activities and just concentrate on MCAT preperation. Just as the ability to be a good doctor does not rely solely upon good grades neither does it rely only upon desire. It has to be a mix of both and if you can manage a 25-27 for you next MCAT score you will be well within range for acceptance. I only wish there was as stringent a way to test the personal attributes necessary to be a good doctor as there is for our intellect. Then we would have no worry about being treated by physicians with NYCOM's attitude.
     
  19. MRF1366

    MRF1366 Been Here Long Time
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    I don't know why you are all jumping all over nycom. He/she is just telling the truth. And that is that adcomms DO care what your MCAT scores are! I mean come off it people, a 20?! That's a low score.

    Let me tell you a direct quote from one of my interviews at an Osteopathic school:

    "I can tell by your MCAT scores that you will have no problem here academically."

    That's an EXACT quote. In case you're wondering, I had three 10's. The point is, that THEY CARE WHAT YOUR SCORES ARE BECUASE THEY CORRELATE TO YOUR PERFORMANCE IN MED SCHOOL!!

    Just face facts, study your ASS off for a few months, and get a score that will proove you can hack it.
     
  20. HOSS

    HOSS Member
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    One day of testing does not prove anything. A candidate that has shown consistency throughout his/her college career is more valuable in my mind.
     
  21. MRF1366

    MRF1366 Been Here Long Time
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    Well fortunately the people in charge of med school admissions DON'T see things the way you do Hoss. You have to think before you say things like that. ONE DAY? Umm right. That test requires EFFORT. It requires weeks or months of preperation. It requires that you learn a huge amount of information. Then it requires that you have the stamina to answer hard questions about that information for several hours.

    Now, as a med student, I can tell you that this is what I have had to do TIME AND TIME AGAIN! This is what med school is like. You must learn large amounts of info, and then apply that info to answer tough questions on tests MUCH harder than the MCAT!

    Now if you were trying to decide who would make a better student at your school, who would you want? The one who prooved that he could learn a bunch of information and then apply it when tested, or the one that has yet to proove that he has those skills???

    Incidentally, each step of the Medical Boards is just "one day of testing," how does that proove anything?
     
  22. Medic171

    Medic171 Senior Member
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    MRF speaks the sad truth! A 20 is way below averagen and MCAT scores do matter quite a bit. In fact, anybody will tell you that MCATS are weighed more than GPA in general, although it is true that a solid school record is important too as HOSS said. BTW HOSS, you seemed pretty worried about you MCAT score in a previous post(which was not bad) for not believing it mattered too much.
    ;)
     
  23. PalCareGrl

    PalCareGrl Senior Member
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    Okay, MCATs may be designed to show your aptitude for learning and success in med school, but they are not everything. To me, the MCAT, more than anything was a mind game, and once you realize that, it becomes easier (that and a lot of practice exams).

    I'm not necessarily smarter than I was two years ago, but when I took the MCAT this past spring after a review course, I improved my score 8 points. I don't believe that it is because I learned more (crammed more studying in), it was simply because I had better study habits and used my time more efficiently.

    MCAT scores are NOT everything, but they are not nothing either. Those of you that are saying "20 is too low" are going by your own experience. There have been other posters who know people who have gotten in with 20 or below. I guess the bottom line is: don't give up - if this is what you really want then GO FOR IT!!! Best of luck. :)
     
  24. muonwhiz

    muonwhiz Senior Member
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    To the original poster, I wish you the best of luck. Owning your own business, especially if successful, is a significant accomplishment. I am not on admissions committees, so I have no way of knowing whether you will get in on this year's cycle. I have a friend with stats virtually the same as yours, and this person was rejected from every school applied to. As a result, this person is retaking the mcat. Do not be discouraged if you end up in the same situation! Taking the mcat more than once is a big hassle, but it gives you a chance to raise that score. You might also want to consider taking some graduate level hard science classes, and acing them. In that way, you can present a powerful arguement that you can perform well in graduate level science. If the admissions do not go as you wish this time, keep on trying! Don't give up!
     
  25. Stayce

    Stayce Member
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    WOW! I almost hate to get involved in this post, but I do have an opinion when it comes to grades and stats. I am 23, with a 3.1 GPA who has worked full time with disabled persons and geriatrics since I was 16 while raising a "challenging" sister. My GPA is significantly lower than my classmatess who do not work 50 hour weeks or come home to care for a sibling. I do believe that things such as employment and other factors are looked at by admissions committees as much as the initial numbers. Maybe someone who gets a B- in Organic Chem while getting an average of 3 hours of sleep a night between work and class and personal situations is as/more qualified as the person who has 30 hours a week to devote to studying and gets an A. TheMCAT is important (I have not taken it yet), but so is charachter. I find that so many people on this site are helpful and encouraging to their future co-workers. On the other hand, the same forum contains people "fully dedicated to improve the lives of others" who spend every post cutting down the dreams of others. This does not include the 'harsh reality comments' just the blatently rude ones of course. Contradiction in disguise? I can't say.
    My point is, numbers are numbers, and although adcoms look highly on them, I feel that they look at much more than simply a 3.0 or 4.0 or 20 or 30 etc. I say this because my cousin was just accepted to a MD program with a 3.2 and a 26 on her mcats. They took into consideration that she was a single mother raising 2 children and working 46 hour weeks. So there is hope for everyone.
    Good lluck to all of you, as I too look forward to making my dreams come true through hard work and dedication.
     
  26. BooBooBear

    BooBooBear Member
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    Not to quibble to much.... MCAT scores are not indicative of how you will do in med school, your past academic record shows your academic ability. The MCAT is anindication of how you will do on the USMLE and other standardized tests... which are an important part of becoming a doctor. That's what I have heard for the last several years anyway.
     
  27. Yosh

    Yosh Livin' in the WINDY CITY
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    I agree with BooBooBear.....as much as there is much much more to a person then grades and MCAT....people need to be able to perform and score at a certain level.

    To become a doctor, one must successfully pass USMLE/COMLEX I, II, and III....which are exams like the MCAT..Without being able to pass...one cannot become a licenesed physician.

    The MCAT is "supposed" to be able to scale and predict this...a school is not doing anyone a favor by admitting someone who cannot make a cutoff...becuase the buck will eventually stop...and the minimum requirements will have to be met...if not by an adcom...then by the state licensing board.

    I had friends who did horribly on the MCAT...went to a carribean school...and cannot pass Step I of the USMLE...what good is that???? The school loses money...because most cannot promote you...and your money is wasted as well...as you "try" to pass the board...

    Of course there are exceptions...but I am sure this is the case more than the exception...

    Just my two cents...
     
  28. Eric714

    Eric714 Senior Member
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    DrFitness:

    Sounds like you have a lot of things going for you... but like a lot of people in these post, you need to get those MCAT scores up. I think the schools would like the fact that you're well-rounded. But every year these schools' admission requirements get tougher, COMP's average MCAT is 8.69 which means about the 26.

    Remember that's the average, therefore there must have been people that got in with 23-24 as well. I would suggest cutting back on your work interests to take another run at that MCAT to study your butt off. Sounds like you'll make a good DO, you just need to get your foot in the door. I got in after interviewing two years in a row. So don't give up if it's really something you want....

    Hope this helps,
    Eric
    MSII, COMP
     
  29. EMDrMoe

    EMDrMoe Senior Member
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    Amra, well said. From everything I have seen, there is no magic formula. I am applying for the entering class of '02 also, with my husband (a situation that is repeatedly termed "impossible). We're 27 and 28 and athletic trainers (although a lot of people & docs do not know it's even an allied health profession) with masters degree. My GPA isn't great, my husband's is better. His MCAT is a 22, but mine's a 36. Do I think we can't get in together? No. Do I think adcoms are human? Yes. Don't bug them incessantly, but do keep your name in the running. Good luck.
     
  30. Hskermdic

    Hskermdic Senior Member
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    I think it is ok to be persistent in following up on your applications to school. But there is not reason to bug these people. And remember a lot of the times the people you get on the other end of the phone, such as the secretaries , probably makes very little money and while they may not have the power to get you accepted they probably could negatively affect your application. :confused:
     
  31. AhmedDO

    AhmedDO Junior Member
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    birdflysatnite
    Please, try to type without (Caps Lok) next time ok :cool:
     
  32. muonwhiz

    muonwhiz Senior Member
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    I want to defend students that have to go to Caribbean med schools. These schools vary in their educational quality and have to be carefully checked out before deciding to attend. But I know many fine and qualified students that are rejected from US schools simply because there are not enough places for all qualified applicants! I have friends that go there and they will make fine docs one day. They are not intellectually deficient, and will have to work that much harder in their careers becuase of prejudice against them. As future DO's and members of a minority medical profession, we should be empathetic towards FMG's, not bigoted. You should also know that for the St. George's University and Ross University medical schools, the first time pass rate for the USMLE is 92%. The first time pass rate for US medical school (allopathic) graduates is 93%. Not much difference there.
     

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