Seeing another student cheating?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
2

2014MD

What kind of interview question is this?

Wouldn't everyone answer that "I would have to report that student"

Maybe I'm missing something.
Members don't see this ad.
 
I hate that question. I think it's one of those questions where there's no real right answer to, they just want to see how you'd react.
 
Just tellthem you would black mail the person for ever, and make them buy you an XBOX 360 game/week or your squeeling.

Duh.. THIS should be the common answer.
GET WITH THE PROGRAM!!:idea:
 
Members don't see this ad :)
2014MD said:
What kind of interview question is this?

Wouldn't everyone answer that "I would have to report that student"

Maybe I'm missing something.
Click to expand...

In an idealistic sense, yes.

However, what adcoms are looking for is WHY:

A. Because it's morally unacceptable.
B. Because it puts me at a disadvantage.
C. Because it puts everyone at a disadvantage.
D. Because down the road, the person could cheat/lie and hurt someone else.

You need to not only demonstrate responsibility, but proper reasoning behind it. Would you report your best friend for cheating? Would you report your favorite professor for cheating? Would you be willing to risk your reputation to admit this?

They want to see how far you can go.

It's under the lines of

"How much money do you have to be given before you discard your morals?"
$1? Increments of 10. Could you be bought if you were given enough money to ensure that you would never be charged because you can bribe everyone related to the case?

It all comes down to WHY, not if.

Look at the opposite end of the spectrum. You are a police officer and you and your partner have saved each other countless times. One day, your partner makes a bad call. You can choose to A. abandon him or B. stick by his side and take the punishment as well.

In the case of your question, it may seem black and white, but people are driven a lot more by just moral standing. Some see trust and loyalty as more important than morality.
 
Compass said:
In an idealistic sense, yes.

However, what adcoms are looking for is WHY:

A. Because it's morally unacceptable.
B. Because it puts me at a disadvantage.
C. Because it puts everyone at a disadvantage.
D. Because down the road, the person could cheat/lie and hurt someone else.

You need to not only demonstrate responsibility, but proper reasoning behind it. Would you report your best friend for cheating? Would you report your favorite professor for cheating? Would you be willing to risk your reputation to admit this?

They want to see how far you can go.

It's under the lines of

"How much money do you have to be given before you discard your morals?"
$1? Increments of 10. Could you be bought if you were given enough money to ensure that you would never be charged because you can bribe everyone related to the case?

It all comes down to WHY, not if.

Look at the opposite end of the spectrum. You are a police officer and you and your partner have saved each other countless times. One day, your partner makes a bad call. You can choose to A. abandon him or B. stick by his side and take the punishment as well.

In the case of your question, it may seem black and white, but people are driven a lot more by just moral standing. Some see trust and loyalty as more important than morality.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the post. I need think about a way to articulate my answer to this kind of question.
 
The best way to formulate an argument that stands against rigorous questioning would be to find an intro phil/psych textbook. I be more psych-leaning. Also make sure you understand what you're explaining. If you talk about the Stanford Prison experiment, you should be able to describe in detail the entire story for about 2 minutes at a normal speaking pace. Don't just say X happened and that was it.
 
From searching through the forums, i think ive even seen them phrase it so much as " what if it was your best friend that cheated" making it more of a moral dilemma. On one hand they want you to do whats right but on the other its your best friend who you theoretically would want to remain friends with, making the option to throw the books at them difficult.
 
That situation might be more difficult to answer than your original question.
 
Clearly the right answer is merciless application of blackmail for personal benefit.

Serious response: I'd go with something along the lines of telling my friend that I saw him cheating, and encouraging him to tell the professor himself. If he was unable to do that, I would inform the appropriate professor/administrator myself as a last resort.

As (future) physicians, our first priority is the health of society, in general, and our patients, in particular. For me this question is, fundamentally, no different than other personal/professional dilemmas that physicians no doubt face on a daily basis.
 
For the record, I'd like to point out that the most defensible answer is in fact somehow reporting the cheater, regardless of whether they are famous, your best friend, or not. I should point out that academic integrity is one of THE most important documents you will find on several secondary applications.
 
I was going through practice interviews with my PI last year (She's an Adcom and does interviews at UCI Med), and the question of "What would you do if you thought your best friend cheating during a test?" came up. She said, and I agree, that you want to avoid instantly saying you'd turn them in as a reflex response, because without any consideration that really looks like it's fake - even if it's your honest answer. Clearly they're not looking for you to say that you wouldn't turn them in, but looking like you're not saying an honest answer could be just as bad.
 
Ignition said:
Clearly the right answer is merciless application of blackmail for personal benefit.

Serious response: I'd go with something along the lines of telling my friend that I saw him cheating, and encouraging him to tell the professor himself. If he was unable to do that, I would inform the appropriate professor/administrator myself as a last resort.

As (future) physicians, our first priority is the health of society, in general, and our patients, in particular. For me this question is, fundamentally, no different than other personal/professional dilemmas that physicians no doubt face on a daily basis.
Click to expand...

Excellent response.:thumbup:
 
I'd tell on him and then collect my reward.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Vicviper said:
I was going through practice interviews with my PI last year (She's an Adcom and does interviews at UCI Med), and the question of "What would you do if you thought your best friend cheating during a test?" came up. She said, and I agree, that you want to avoid instantly saying you'd turn them in as a reflex response, because without any consideration that really looks like it's fake - even if it's your honest answer. Clearly they're not looking for you to say that you wouldn't turn them in, but looking like you're not saying an honest answer could be just as bad.
Click to expand...

That would be part of general interviewing tactics as well. Don't shout out stuff like you know what they're going to ask. Pause for effect. Appear to be deep in thought. Stroke your imaginary beard.
 
Compass said:
That would be part of general interviewing tactics as well. Don't shout out stuff like you know what they're going to ask. Pause for effect. Appear to be deep in thought. Stroke your imaginary beard.
Click to expand...

Like this?

db_thought1FM1.jpg
 
There was a thread on a similar topic a while back. I'll be the odd man out.

Frankly, anyone who has been in a similar situation knows that turning in the student, before or after confronting that person, won't do any good. You say that another student is cheating, he denies it, the administration does nothing, and everyone else gets the idea that they can get away with cheating or that you're a backstabber/liar.
 
2014MD said:
What kind of interview question is this?

Wouldn't everyone answer that "I would have to report that student"

Maybe I'm missing something.
Click to expand...

Confront the student in this manner.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szPQoqjjRcA[/YOUTUBE]
 
BerlinDude said:
There was a thread on a similar topic a while back. I'll be the odd man out.

Frankly, anyone who has been in a similar situation knows that turning in the student, before or after confronting that person, won't do any good. You say that another student is cheating, he denies it, the administration does nothing, and everyone else gets the idea that they can get away with cheating or that you're a backstabber/liar.
Click to expand...

That may be so, but the reporting may also prompt the professor/administration to initiate stricter test-taking procedures, either temporarily or permanently.

Also, if there is more than one witness for a single cheating event, or multiple reports for the same person over many time periods, your individual report becomes much more persuasive. You may not be aware that other people saw the same event, or that prior reports were issued for the same person, but the administration certainly will. If you failed to report, other isolated reports involving the cheater may be dismissed.
 
Ignition said:
That may be so, but the reporting may also prompt the professor/administration to initiate stricter test-taking procedures, either temporarily or permanently.

Also, if there is more than one witness for a single cheating event, or multiple reports for the same person over many time periods, your individual report becomes much more persuasive. You may not be aware that other people saw the same event, or that prior reports were issued for the same person, but the administration certainly will. If you failed to report, other isolated reports involving the cheater may be dismissed.
Click to expand...

Good point. I think it's unlikely that someone so obviously cheating that several test-takers complain about him won't get caught during the exam by the proctor. I would guess that most cheaters are fairly discrete.
 
..At least this thread had better responses than the same thread that was brought up a week or so ago :rolleyes:

Edit: Ok, this was already noted.

Well alright, it seems like I can now confidently answer one interview question. Keep it up.
 
Last edited:
i vaguely remember seeing something here on SDN about the question even being stretched to "if everyone in the class cheated and you knew about it, would you turn them in?"

I remember something about it that had supposedly happened to the interviewer in his class that almost the entire class had gotten a copy of the test or gotten something they shouldn't have and only 1 student had told him.

Like the OP said, the answer is an easy one, but like some of the previous posts, you just dont want it to look like you're saying it just because its what they want to hear. I wish i had a beard like that to stroke lol
 
Please note that responses to this question are theoretical. Whether or not a school committee decides to flog/disembowel/hire as a lawyer/turn into a cadaver your imaginary classmate cheater are irrelevant. In a real-world situation, a mark stating that the person has been accused of cheating at some point will be put on his record, most likely. But this is a PRACTICAL theoretical question that requires a PRACTICAL theoretical answer. Remember, this question doesn't only apply to what you would have done in the past, but also in med school, if it WERE to happen, which is why it is most likely asked.

Would the interviewer want a student who wouldn't report someone cheating on an exam about controlled prescription substances in their med school? Probably not. The answer is defined, but the reason is not.
 
If the question was "Would you turn in an entire class for cheating, if they would know it was you who turned them in?", I would probably have to elaborate an answer but ultimately say no.

Of course, I would admit in the beginning that the morally acceptable thing to do would be to turn them in. But then I would go on about how it would ruin my social life, etc.

Bad answer?
 
I am more of those indefferent type....I would just ignore it and go on with my life....
 
Dr Gerrard said:
If the question was "Would you turn in an entire class for cheating, if they would know it was you who turned them in?", I would probably have to elaborate an answer but ultimately say no.

Of course, I would admit in the beginning that the morally acceptable thing to do would be to turn them in. But then I would go on about how it would ruin my social life, etc.

Bad answer?
Click to expand...

Look at the BIG picture. It's not about YOU. As much as I hate to say and act as such, viewing this situation from how it will affect you will make you look terrible.

Back when I was a little nub in high school, I was asked the following question for enrollment into the newspaper. I answered the question wrong.

"If you had a newspaper assignment due tomorrow, as well as a chemistry exam you needed to study for, only time for one, which one would you do?"

Being an idiot, I voted for number two. This is the WRONG answer in all cases from a moral standpoint. Number 2, you let your entire newspaper down. Number 1, the only person you let down is yourself.

You need to look at it from the community perspective. On whichever level of the community you look at, you will notice that different answers are right. Your answer IS acceptable in one case that I have thought up in terms of not telling. However, it will not fly based on your reasoning.

Community (Your class)
You do not turn them in. While it is morally responsible to do so, by turning in your entire class, you place severe mistrust amongst your peers. You ruin the entire class's opportunities in life. They may never cheat as group again, but they will never consider themselves part of the group either. Such a level of mistrust is dangerous, and with such a large amount of collaborative cheating, you place a large amount of scrutiny on any member of your class for the rest of their academic careers. From a class-community standpoint, allowing them to get off develops stronger bonds, ensures that they trust each other, and does not directly benefit any member of the community more than any other. All have equally gained in advantage, and the playing field is still even.

Community (Your university)
You turn them in. It is morally responsible to do so. Your class does not deserve any more advantage than any other class that has occurred or will occur. While your class may not trust you, your university will have a positive example for which to demonstrate the importance of integrity. It will also provide other classes with similar circumstance motivation to come forwards and admit to have done so. It increases the overall university's awareness of academic integrity, and despite the minor embarrassment of a single class being caught, will be noted for any effective punishment it places on the class. It also increases student/professor bonds and allows your class to at least receive some sort of community help from the university to prevent them from ever cheating again.

These answers took a bit of thinking to write up. I'd probably ramble on for about 5 to 10 minutes if asked this at an interview, given how much I've analyzed decisions in the past.
 
Dr Gerrard said:
If the question was "Would you turn in an entire class for cheating, if they would know it was you who turned them in?", I would probably have to elaborate an answer but ultimately say no.

Of course, I would admit in the beginning that the morally acceptable thing to do would be to turn them in. But then I would go on about how it would ruin my social life, etc.

Bad answer?
Click to expand...
Now that i think of it, i think that wherever i read that on here, the person being interviewed asked the same thing, the interviewer said yes and then after getting their answer informed the person being interviewed that the situation happened in his class. But he did say that " everyone would know that it was you."
 
Somebody throw out another ethical question quick! I need more practice in this area
 
Awesome Compass, thanks!

But I guess what I got out of this is to not answer truthfully. There is no way I would turn the whole class in. Of course, this depends on the severity of the exam. If this exam were to somehow determine how good of doctors the class will be, of course not turning them in would create a whole class of bad doctors which can do countless harm. But cheating on an english exam... Sure, that is bad. But is it really bad enough to ruin my social reputation? I guess that is selfish.
 
Compass said:
Look at the BIG picture. It's not about YOU. As much as I hate to say and act as such, viewing this situation from how it will affect you will make you look terrible.

Back when I was a little nub in high school, I was asked the following question for enrollment into the newspaper. I answered the question wrong.

"If you had a newspaper assignment due tomorrow, as well as a chemistry exam you needed to study for, only time for one, which one would you do?"

Being an idiot, I voted for number two. This is the WRONG answer in all cases from a moral standpoint. Number 2, you let your entire newspaper down. Number 1, the only person you let down is yourself.

You need to look at it from the community perspective. On whichever level of the community you look at, you will notice that different answers are right. Your answer IS acceptable in one case that I have thought up in terms of not telling. However, it will not fly based on your reasoning.

Community (Your class)
You do not turn them in. While it is morally responsible to do so, by turning in your entire class, you place severe mistrust amongst your peers. You ruin the entire class's opportunities in life. They may never cheat as group again, but they will never consider themselves part of the group either. Such a level of mistrust is dangerous, and with such a large amount of collaborative cheating, you place a large amount of scrutiny on any member of your class for the rest of their academic careers. From a class-community standpoint, allowing them to get off develops stronger bonds, ensures that they trust each other, and does not directly benefit any member of the community more than any other. All have equally gained in advantage, and the playing field is still even.

Community (Your university)
You turn them in. It is morally responsible to do so. Your class does not deserve any more advantage than any other class that has occurred or will occur. While your class may not trust you, your university will have a positive example for which to demonstrate the importance of integrity. It will also provide other classes with similar circumstance motivation to come forwards and admit to have done so. It increases the overall university's awareness of academic integrity, and despite the minor embarrassment of a single class being caught, will be noted for any effective punishment it places on the class. It also increases student/professor bonds and allows your class to at least receive some sort of community help from the university to prevent them from ever cheating again.

These answers took a bit of thinking to write up. I'd probably ramble on for about 5 to 10 minutes if asked this at an interview, given how much I've analyzed decisions in the past.
Click to expand...

wow I didn't see that before, but that is a very good, well thought out analysis.
 
Dr Gerrard said:
Awesome Compass, thanks!

But I guess what I got out of this is to not answer truthfully. There is no way I would turn the whole class in. Of course, this depends on the severity of the exam. If this exam were to somehow determine how good of doctors the class will be, of course not turning them in would create a whole class of bad doctors which can do countless harm. But cheating on an english exam... Sure, that is bad. But is it really bad enough to ruin my social reputation? I guess that is selfish.
Click to expand...

Everyone has their reasons. What you pick to be yours are yours alone. There is nothing wrong with considering your own personal benefit. These questions are meant to be theoretical. Observe the following morality question.

A train is barreling down the tracks. If you do nothing, three people will die. There is a fat person next to you. You can push him down, thus killing him. He will sufficiently stop the train, saving 3 lives.

From a moral standpoint, sacrificing your personal salvation and the fat person is better than letting the three people get run over.

However, in real life, I will HOPEFULLY not be pushing any fat men to their deaths in hopes of stopping an oncoming train.

When this decision comes to you in real life, you will have to ask yourself the question for real. However, since it is not happening, you should depress personal consequences in your discussion. None of us can claim to be the ideally moral person. I'm certainly not. I'd probably have a loyalty issue betraying my entire class in real life as well, though not because my social life would suffer. If your friends won't trust you, who will?
 
Compass said:
Everyone has their reasons. What you pick to be yours are yours alone. There is nothing wrong with considering your own personal benefit. These questions are meant to be theoretical. Observe the following morality question.

A train is barreling down the tracks. If you do nothing, three people will die. There is a fat person next to you. You can push him down, thus killing him. He will sufficiently stop the train, saving 3 lives.

From a moral standpoint, sacrificing your personal salvation and the fat person is better than letting the three people get run over.

However, in real life, I will HOPEFULLY not be pushing any fat men to their deaths in hopes of stopping an oncoming train.

When this decision comes to you in real life, you will have to ask yourself the question for real. However, since it is not happening, you should depress personal consequences in your discussion. None of us can claim to be the ideally moral person. I'm certainly not. I'd probably have a loyalty issue betraying my entire class in real life as well, though not because my social life would suffer. If your friends won't trust you, who will?
Click to expand...

The best practical solution to your moral dilemma is to throw a doughnut onto the tracks, thereby absolving you from responsibility. :D
 
There was an episode of Saved By The Bell: The College Years that was along these lines. Just watch that for all your answers
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

T
Working another semester as a Chemistry TA
Replies
6
Views
426
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
A
Taking classes at another university?
Replies
3
Views
144
pablo213
pablo213
RespectTheChemistry
Quitting a volunteer position and starting another one close to your application cycle
Replies
4
Views
547
RespectTheChemistry
RespectTheChemistry
Woody8599
KansasCOM vs another Gap year
Replies
4
Views
347
chilly_md
chilly_md
L
When to start transferring to another undergrad school?
Replies
1
Views
374
pazzer2
P
Top