Seems like things other than board scores are a bigger factor in Psych specifically

[Kr#36]

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For an MS3 who is newly interested in applying psych, what are some of those things?

All of my research is in a surgical field, and while its landing me a decent amount of abstracts, some pubs, and some presentations I dont see how it will be helpful.

 

[capacityconsult]

It won’t be helpful, it will make it look like you are applying surgery with psych as your backup. Do some psych research, join your local psych communities, volunteer, get involved to show you are excited to do psych

 

[calvinhobbes]

Personality and your interview skills.

 

[J ROD]

EI emotional intelligence is huge. Board scores don't tell me you can talk to patients and have the feel for psych

 

[jbomba]

I would even go as far as to say leave the surgical research stuff off the app. Others may disagree.

 

[Bartelby]

I would disagree with leaving the surgery research off. Publications are a plus, they show familiarity with general research process and an ability to create work worthy of publication. Many people also change their mind about specialty choice during medical school, which is expected and is probably a good thing. Just make sure the rest of your application shows a passion for psychiatry.

 

[Central_SOULcus]

I would disagree with leaving the surgery research off. Publications are a plus, they show familiarity with general research process and an ability to create work worthy of publication. Many people also change their mind about specialty choice during medical school, which is expected and is probably a good thing. Just make sure the rest of your application shows a passion for psychiatry.

OP, I completely agree with this. I personally would definitely include any and all publications. If you're really concerned that programs might think psych is your backup, you can consider briefly mentioning in your personal statement that you initially thought you wanted to do surgery. Don't say why you decided against it (even if it's not a negative reason, I think it's best not to harp on it); instead you could say what you loved about psychiatry and how you "knew" psych is the specialty for you. Plenty of people match into a different specialty than the one they originally thought they would go for.

 

[FatherPsychiatry]

Agree with above recommendations to include the surgery research on your app. I read countless applications with "I came into med school thinking I was going to do onc/surgery/whatever but after my 3rd year psychiatry rotation I knew that was my destiny because x y z". Never held it against them, and in fact, quite the opposite and made the applicant appear motivated and introspective in regards to being willing to change and adapt.

 

[clozareal]

I would disagree with leaving the surgery research off. Publications are a plus, they show familiarity with general research process and an ability to create work worthy of publication. Many people also change their mind about specialty choice during medical school, which is expected and is probably a good thing. Just make sure the rest of your application shows a passion for psychiatry.

I agree with this too. Do not leave your publications and research off your application. However, do explain your initial decision to want to pursue surgery and the thought process behind changing your mind to psychiatry in your personal statement. Have a similar answer prepared for your interviews. Being thoughtful and intentional about it rather than avoiding and defensively denying a part of your medical school experience. If your interests are blended, make sure you mention your interest in the overlap as well (initial interest in pediatrics--> child psych; initial interest in OB/Gyn-->perinatal mental health; initial interest in surgery-->consult-liaison, transplant eval, etc).

I've read many applications where the candidate initially decided to do one specialty and then changed their mind—we've ranked them favorably if their trajectory was clear. The committee was more suspicious of those who completely didn't mention their research or background in another specialty since we thought they were double applying.

 

[Kr#36]

OP, I completely agree with this. I personally would definitely include any and all publications. If you're really concerned that programs might think psych is your backup, you can consider briefly mentioning in your personal statement that you initially thought you wanted to do surgery. Don't say why you decided against it (even if it's not a negative reason, I think it's best not to harp on it); instead you could say what you loved about psychiatry and how you "knew" psych is the specialty for you. Plenty of people match into a different specialty than the one they originally thought they would go for.

That was my question in regards to research, thanks. I don't think its fair to be punished because my speciality decision changed from when I was a know-thing undergrad/first to when I was a know-almost nothing 3rd year. I never considered psych until I experienced it but I still learned a lot doing those projects.

 

[Stagg737]

That was my question in regards to research, thanks. I don't think its fair to be punished because my speciality decision changed from when I was a know-thing undergrad/first to when I was a know-almost nothing 3rd year. I never considered psych until I experienced it but I still learned a lot doing those projects.

And this is what you should say. Having research in another field during pre-clinical years won't hurt you. On the other hand, continuing to do research in that other field through 4th year with limited psych exposure and then applying psych...no bueno.

If you enjoy research then look for some projects in psych during clinical years. Sounds like you know the ropes, and it could certainly give you a leg up at some programs. Regardless, a cohesive story with introspection and self-reflection in your application helps in any field, but especially in psych where those skills and thought processes are essential in the clinical setting.

 

[asdf123g]

Just my OPINION, but to get (more) interviews I think being a USMD helps, nepotism, connections help. Psych doesn't filter in the same way that other specialties do so that great USMLE won't do a whole lot. Then there's the other obvious factors like ties to the area.

Personality and interpersonal skills help on interview day, but that won't get you an II.

 

[jbomba]

Just my OPINION, but to get (more) interviews I think being a USMD helps, nepotism, connections help. Psych doesn't filter in the same way that other specialties do so that great USMLE won't do a whole lot. Then there's the other obvious factors like ties to the area.

Personality and interpersonal skills help on interview day, but that won't get you an II.

Agreed fully. I'm a do with scores and an app to have gone pretty much anywhere and I got shut out at tons of places that should have been within reach.

 

[risperdoll]

Just my OPINION, but to get (more) interviews I think being a USMD helps, nepotism, connections help. Psych doesn't filter in the same way that other specialties do so that great USMLE won't do a whole lot. Then there's the other obvious factors like ties to the area.

Personality and interpersonal skills help on interview day, but that won't get you an II.

This is a big fear of mine. I’m coming from a DO school with zero connections and trying to break out of my region. It’s pretty scary!

 

[NickNaylor]

I agree with others recommending that your research, presentations, etc. remain on your application - these are value pluses for an application and students doing work on fields unrelated to what you ultimately apply to is not at all unusual.

At our program at least, the interviews were far and away the most important aspect of your application when it comes to ranking. We use a scoring rubric with a variety of criteria to score applicants, and interview performance and third year grades are by far the two biggest contributors to your final score. Board scores contribute fairly little - even for extremely high scores.

 

[Stagg737]

This is a big fear of mine. I’m coming from a DO school with zero connections and trying to break out of my region. It’s pretty scary!

It can be frustrating, but geography does matter. All but one of my interviews were in the same region as my med school, and most were within 500 miles. Any connections at all can help though. The one long-distance interview I went on was in an area where my wife had several aunts and uncles which I mentioned in my PS to the programs in that area. Idk if it played a huge role, but I do think it had some influence as I personally had no ties to the area whatsoever and I vaguely remember talking about how easy it would be to visit my wife's relatives.

The silver lining is that even if you match in an area you don't particularly like, once you're an attending you can go pretty much anywhere once you're licensed.

 

[ArdorAyurveda]

It's a relief to know that in Psych, board scores don't account for that much. Makes it that much easier not to get all caught up in the Anki hype. The Type B in me really appreciates it.

Would it be unreasonable to say that presenting research at national conferences and meeting residents/attendings at programs of interest would be the best way to secure an II? It's clear that connections are important -- but how do you go about establishing those connections at your programs of interest if you're not able to geographically visit them? Of course there are away rotations, but you can only do so many of those during your fourth year.

 

[Merovinge]

For an MS3 who is newly interested in applying psych, what are some of those things?

All of my research is in a surgical field, and while its landing me a decent amount of abstracts, some pubs, and some presentations I dont see how it will be helpful.

I'd make sure you have a practiced and coherent narrative about what changed your mind. For reference, I was 99% set on a very specific sub-specialty, was president of the interest group in my medical school for this specialty, all my research and additional experiences were in that specialty. I decided at nearly the very end of M3 year to jump over to psych (one of the top 3 best decisions of my life) and was able to confidently explain how my life circumstances got me to where I am. I can't imagine a single person interviewing me got through and felt like I was back-up applying to psych, it's key you come across as actually passionate and in a manner that makes intuitive sense to the interviewer.

 

[asdf123g]

Agreed fully. I'm a do with scores and an app to have gone pretty much anywhere and I got shut out at tons of places that should have been within reach.

That really sucks. Boards and grades and research and all of that academic stuff don't mean everything I know, but it says a lot about strong work ethic. Meanwhile, most psych residents I meet or have talked to admit they never study or put in any effort. It doesn't come as a surprise based on how recruitment goes.

 

[kopftonmd]

I'd make sure you have a practiced and coherent narrative about what changed your mind. For reference, I was 99% set on a very specific sub-specialty, was president of the interest group in my medical school for this specialty, all my research and additional experiences were in that specialty. I decided at nearly the very end of M3 year to jump over to psych (one of the top 3 best decisions of my life) and was able to confidently explain how my life circumstances got me to where I am. I can't imagine a single person interviewing me got through and felt like I was back-up applying to psych, it's key you come across as actually passionate and in a manner that makes intuitive sense to the interviewer.

What are the other two though?

 

[NontradCA]

Interviewing is going to be the biggest factor. My best advice in that regard is to be excited about yourself. It's easy to put all your achievements on paper, but expanding on those experiences to another person in a way that sells it is totally different. Practice.

 

[Merovinge]

What are the other two though?

One is oddly specific so in an effort to not Doxx myself, I'll save the story if you ever catch me at a conference. The other is marrying my wife (cliche but very true).

 

[NontradCA]

One is oddly specific so in an effort to not Doxx myself, I'll save the story if you ever catch me at a conference. The other is marrying my wife (cliche but very true).

Scaredy cat.

 

[Central_SOULcus]

One is oddly specific so in an effort to not Doxx myself, I'll save the story if you ever catch me at a conference. The other is marrying my wife (cliche but very true).

Awww, cool! 2 of the top 3 decisions in my life are also choosing psych and marrying my spouse!

 

[Stagg737]

That really sucks. Boards and grades and research and all of that academic stuff don't mean everything I know, but it says a lot about strong work ethic. Meanwhile, most psych residents I meet or have talked to admit they never study or put in any effort. It doesn't come as a surprise based on how recruitment goes.

I think that's highly variable and some may not even consider their actual studying to be studying. Many may not go home and read textbooks or dig through articles, but I don't think I know any people who are not at least looking up articles and reading during the day between patients or "studying" by looking up various treatments, side effects, interactions, etc for patients. That being said, I also know quite a few who go home and read several nights per week and are fairly well-versed in both current and historical literature in psych.

Interviewing is going to be the biggest factor. My best advice in that regard is to be excited about yourself. It's easy to put all your achievements on paper, but expanding on those experiences to another person in a way that sells it is totally different. Practice.

This couldn't be emphasized enough and I think some people (myself included) have a difficult time talking about their achievements or really "selling" themselves in person. There's a balance between being confident without sounding arrogant or egocentric that has to be maintained and it can be easy to stray off in either direction to the point that it can be off-putting.

 

[asdf123g]

I think that's highly variable and some may not even consider their actual studying to be studying. Many may not go home and read textbooks or dig through articles, but I don't think I know any people who are not at least looking up articles and reading during the day between patients or "studying" by looking up various treatments, side effects, interactions, etc for patients. That being said, I also know quite a few who go home and read several nights per week and are fairly well-versed in both current and historical literature in psych.

Fair, not my experience