Self-righteousness in Medicine

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Professionals are the faces of institutions, as a result they reflexively receive the resentment. If you want to be angry, be angry at the institution. In healthcare, be angry at the insurance providers. Don't think paramedics really meet this bill though.

My brother-in-law is a FF/paramedic. You'd be surprised.

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[Palmyra]

Ok i said that wrong. Politicians aren't heroes. What I meant was those are the positions people should pursue if their goal really is to "help" people, because those are the positions that can have the biggest effect.

To be frank with you, I think you lack a certain understanding for the way the world of politics works. You seem to have a ton of bitterness all stored up at physicians, but you don't seem to understand that oftentimes legislators aren't even writing their own legislation. They leave it up to special interests, then swoop in with a tiny few sentences that are good for their districts. (Not saying all of them do this, just that it's not out of the ordinary.) Where is your bitterness about that?

Most people hold Mother Theresa up as an example for good deeds, but was she a politician or a PhD? How about charities like the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation or UNICEF? They do lots of good work, but they aren't politicians or PhDs. How about the White Helmets in Syria? (Seriously, if you haven't heard of them - it's worth a Google search.) They are pulling children out from the rubble after bombing attacks and carrying them to safety, while knowing that warplanes often circle back around and take out the rescuers.

My point is, stop being so cynical. The world is an amazing place, with some terrible things in it. You can do good works from any career. In my experience, it is all about what a person makes of themselves, and not what a job makes of them.

The physicians I have had the pleasure of interacting with have helped shape public policy, coordinated disaster response efforts, and made other meaningful improvements in people's lives. So yes, I am aware that there are a few bad apples, and a few flaws in the system. But by and large, I think doctors are a wonderful bunch of people who dedicate their lives to improving the lives of others. And if I get the chance to join their ranks, I will consider myself most honored.

 

[doctrnet]

I'd like to put my two cents in on this thread after reading it from an un-baised viewpoint. I perused this thread without any presumptions about the "self-righteousness" or a "falsely altruistic view" of physicians, nor with the intention of defending the position of physicians (my mother is a doctor). I've been alive long enough (23 years and counting) to know why people say the things they do (usually to their own benefit). I think the fact that this place is completely anonymous for those who chose to be allows for the conversation to be unrestrained, and in this type of place people's true colors can be shown more accurately.

Reading the first post made by "Avicenna" captured my attention, because of how well it portrayed his/her thoughts and questions he/she has. I think that he/she is obviously a critical thinker and has some college writing experience. Please note that I'm not arguing whether Avicenna's point is valid, but it is not my goal to. Most of the pre-meds on this forum share a single goal which is to get accepted to a medical school (can anyone disagree with that point?).

What makes me sick is how the SDN population responded to the OP's post, with doubled cynicism, defensiveness, and in some cases, with apparent panic stemming from their assumptions of their idealized view of physicians. If one considers this topic in the OP's point of view, just for a moment, the what's taking place here is almost disgusting. I'm assuming that because this forum is a pre-medical forum with administrators who are on the board for admissions, the expectations are that aspiring students "warm up" to the current medical students and the administrators. Therefore it's understandable why a question of this type cannot be answered here correctly, and why it is a sensitive topic which makes the administrators feel agitated. I think it's important to draw the line between the op's kind of thinking and your personal decision making process (applying to med school for instance), but I think that being able to acknowledge that real life medicine is "idealized" to some degree is important in the process of a maturing and learning pre-medical student. Every one who goes through the pre-medical process would have different ways of dealing with this idea. Would it be important for a pre-med student to keep that kind of thinking to him/her self? probably.

The question Avicenna is still valid in the sense that there are people with selfish (and unselfish) reasons for choosing medicine as their career. The idea that some doctors are actually not altruistic and work for their own good under the pretense of "bettering humanity" (for a lack of more eloquent way to put it) would not come as shocking to any but the most naive, under-educated pre-medical student.

These are just my 2 cents.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I'd like to put my two cents in on this thread after reading it from an un-baised viewpoint. I perused this thread without any presumptions about the "self-righteousness" or a "falsely altruistic view" of physicians, nor with the intention of defending the position of physicians (my mother is a doctor). I've been alive long enough (23 years and counting) to know why people say the things they do (usually to their own benefit). I think the fact that this place is completely anonymous for those who chose to be allows for the conversation to be unrestrained, and in this type of place people's true colors can be shown more accurately.

Reading the first post made by "Avicenna" captured my attention, because of how well it portrayed his/her thoughts and questions he/she has. I think that he/she is obviously a critical thinker and has some college writing experience. Please note that I'm not arguing whether Avicenna's point is valid, but it is not my goal to. Most of the pre-meds on this forum share a single goal which is to get accepted to a medical school (can anyone disagree with that point?).

What makes me sick is how the SDN population responded to the OP's post, with doubled cynicism, defensiveness, and in some cases, with apparent panic stemming from their assumptions of their idealized view of physicians. If one considers this topic in the OP's point of view, just for a moment, the what's taking place here is almost disgusting. I'm assuming that because this forum is a pre-medical forum with administrators who are on the board for admissions, the expectations are that aspiring students "warm up" to the current medical students and the administrators. Therefore it's understandable why a question of this type cannot be answered here correctly, and why it is a sensitive topic which makes the administrators feel agitated. I think it's important to draw the line between the op's kind of thinking and your personal decision making process (applying to med school for instance), but I think that being able to acknowledge that real life medicine is "idealized" to some degree is important in the process of a maturing and learning pre-medical student. Every one who goes through the pre-medical process would have different ways of dealing with this idea. Would it be important for a pre-med student to keep that kind of thinking to him/her self? probably.

The question Avicenna is still valid in the sense that there are people with selfish (and unselfish) reasons for choosing medicine as their career. The idea that some doctors are actually not altruistic and work for their own good under the pretense of "bettering humanity" (for a lack of more eloquent way to put it) would not come as shocking to any but the most naive, under-educated pre-medical student.

These are just my 2 cents.

So what makes you sick is that people responded to his sweeping generalizations about physicians by saying that you can't generalize and that the profession mostly requires at least a portion of altruism, and then called him out for saying politicians were heroes.

Roger.

 

[wizzed101]

I'd like to put my two cents in on this thread after reading it from an un-baised viewpoint. I perused this thread without any presumptions about the "self-righteousness" or a "falsely altruistic view" of physicians, nor with the intention of defending the position of physicians (my mother is a doctor). I've been alive long enough (23 years and counting) to know why people say the things they do (usually to their own benefit). I think the fact that this place is completely anonymous for those who chose to be allows for the conversation to be unrestrained, and in this type of place people's true colors can be shown more accurately.

Reading the first post made by "Avicenna" captured my attention, because of how well it portrayed his/her thoughts and questions he/she has. I think that he/she is obviously a critical thinker and has some college writing experience. Please note that I'm not arguing whether Avicenna's point is valid, but it is not my goal to. Most of the pre-meds on this forum share a single goal which is to get accepted to a medical school (can anyone disagree with that point?).

What makes me sick is how the SDN population responded to the OP's post, with doubled cynicism, defensiveness, and in some cases, with apparent panic stemming from their assumptions of their idealized view of physicians. If one considers this topic in the OP's point of view, just for a moment, the what's taking place here is almost disgusting. I'm assuming that because this forum is a pre-medical forum with administrators who are on the board for admissions, the expectations are that aspiring students "warm up" to the current medical students and the administrators. Therefore it's understandable why a question of this type cannot be answered here correctly, and why it is a sensitive topic which makes the administrators feel agitated. I think it's important to draw the line between the op's kind of thinking and your personal decision making process (applying to med school for instance), but I think that being able to acknowledge that real life medicine is "idealized" to some degree is important in the process of a maturing and learning pre-medical student. Every one who goes through the pre-medical process would have different ways of dealing with this idea. Would it be important for a pre-med student to keep that kind of thinking to him/her self? probably.

The question Avicenna is still valid in the sense that there are people with selfish (and unselfish) reasons for choosing medicine as their career. The idea that some doctors are actually not altruistic and work for their own good under the pretense of "bettering humanity" (for a lack of more eloquent way to put it) would not come as shocking to any but the most naive, under-educated pre-medical student.

These are just my 2 cents.

Damn man. You got sick easily.

I stopped reading after he said that all PhD should be considered heroes. Idk man. I personally don't consider chronic metal masturbators heroes.

 

[Lucca]

Damn man. You got sick easily.

I stopped reading after he said that all PhD should be considered heroes. Idk man. I personally don't consider chronic metal masturbators heroes.

So...you think PhDs are chronic mental masturbators? Do go on

 

[doctrnet]

So what makes you sick is that people responded to his sweeping generalizations about physicians by saying that you can't generalize and that the profession mostly requires at least a portion of altruism, and then called him out for saying politicians were heroes.

Roger.

Right, but that doesn't mean my opinion is more or less important than those of others. take everything with a grain of salt.

 

[wizzed101]

So...you think PhDs are chronic mental masturbators? Do go on

You want me to disclose the techniques?... It's a personal thing!

 

[doctrnet]

Damn man. You got sick easily.

I stopped reading after he said that all PhD should be considered heroes. Idk man. I personally don't consider chronic metal masturbators heroes.

You sound like a foul, uneducated @..wipe. my first mistake was reading a reply submitted by someone with the screen name "wizzed101"

 

[doctrnet]

So what makes you sick is that people responded to his sweeping generalizations about physicians by saying that you can't generalize and that the profession mostly requires at least a portion of altruism, and then called him out for saying politicians were heroes.

Roger.

not saying that I was right, just that everyone is entitled to an opinion. for the record I dont think blanket statements apply to this situation or any other

 

[Lawpy]

Damn man. You got sick easily.

I stopped reading after he said that all PhD should be considered heroes. Idk man. I personally don't consider chronic metal masturbators heroes.

So...you think PhDs are chronic mental masturbators? Do go on

You want me to disclose the techniques?... It's a personal thing!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Right, but that doesn't mean my opinion is more or less important than those of others. take everything with a grain of salt.

Your opinion is that people saying generalizations can't be made and that most doctors do have a modicum of altruism given the nature of the profession make you sick. It may be your opinion, but I don't have to respect it if I think it's dumb.

 

[Lost In Transcription]

I'd like to put my two cents in on this thread after reading it from an un-baised viewpoint. I perused this thread without any presumptions about the "self-righteousness" or a "falsely altruistic view" of physicians, nor with the intention of defending the position of physicians (my mother is a doctor). I've been alive long enough (23 years and counting) to know why people say the things they do (usually to their own benefit). I think the fact that this place is completely anonymous for those who chose to be allows for the conversation to be unrestrained, and in this type of place people's true colors can be shown more accurately.

Reading the first post made by "Avicenna" captured my attention, because of how well it portrayed his/her thoughts and questions he/she has. I think that he/she is obviously a critical thinker and has some college writing experience. Please note that I'm not arguing whether Avicenna's point is valid, but it is not my goal to. Most of the pre-meds on this forum share a single goal which is to get accepted to a medical school (can anyone disagree with that point?).

What makes me sick is how the SDN population responded to the OP's post, with doubled cynicism, defensiveness, and in some cases, with apparent panic stemming from their assumptions of their idealized view of physicians. If one considers this topic in the OP's point of view, just for a moment, the what's taking place here is almost disgusting. I'm assuming that because this forum is a pre-medical forum with administrators who are on the board for admissions, the expectations are that aspiring students "warm up" to the current medical students and the administrators. Therefore it's understandable why a question of this type cannot be answered here correctly, and why it is a sensitive topic which makes the administrators feel agitated. I think it's important to draw the line between the op's kind of thinking and your personal decision making process (applying to med school for instance), but I think that being able to acknowledge that real life medicine is "idealized" to some degree is important in the process of a maturing and learning pre-medical student. Every one who goes through the pre-medical process would have different ways of dealing with this idea. Would it be important for a pre-med student to keep that kind of thinking to him/her self? probably.

The question Avicenna is still valid in the sense that there are people with selfish (and unselfish) reasons for choosing medicine as their career. The idea that some doctors are actually not altruistic and work for their own good under the pretense of "bettering humanity" (for a lack of more eloquent way to put it) would not come as shocking to any but the most naive, under-educated pre-medical student.

These are just my 2 cents.

Which posts are you referring to after OP?

 

[Sardinia]

@Avicenna Behind every great super hero is a great super mom. This one is for you Martha.

 

[Palmyra]

@doctrnet I too am wondering which posts specifically you are referring to.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[freak7]

 

[PHgeek123]

 

[IlDestriero]

That's ok.
I'll take the money and go home early.
You can get a PhD, cure cancer, and run for congress.


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Il Destriero

 

[james11]

That's ok.
I'll take the money and go home early.
You can get a PhD, cure cancer, and run for congress.


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Il Destriero

I love how attending physicians are totally unabashed with this attitude lol. This is what I hear from people I've shadowed. Funny, people's tones tend to change once they don't have to win over some adcom...

 

[wizzed101]

You sound like a foul, uneducated @..wipe. my first mistake was reading a reply submitted by someone with the screen name "wizzed101"

I am not a person who listens to asswipe, much less asks for its education level. But if that's how "education" gets you off...

Edit: yea I saw that move on animal planet, like when the monkeys sniff their butts, quite.. primal. I get it now. But I guess I am not educated enough to get turned on. Shame

 

[IlDestriero]

I love how attending physicians are totally unabashed with this attitude lol. This is what I hear from people I've shadowed. Funny, people's tones tend to change once they don't have to win over some adcom...

I didn't tell any adcoms that I would do any of those things. Medicine is a very specialized job. That's not new info.


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Il Destriero

 

[affirmdeez]

ayo no love in dis game...word to the bird.
altruism? what is da meaning of dat word

 

[Avicenna]

What makes me sick is how the SDN population responded to the OP's post, with doubled cynicism, defensiveness, and in some cases, with apparent panic stemming from their assumptions of their idealized view of physicians

Appreciate the love man

The question Avicenna is still valid in the sense that there are people with selfish (and unselfish) reasons for choosing medicine as their career. The idea that some doctors are actually not altruistic and work for their own good under the pretense of "bettering humanity" (for a lack of more eloquent way to put it) would not come as shocking to any but the most naive, under-educated pre-medical student.

That's not the point I'm making at all; it's that people expect too much out of doctors and that it's ok for doctors not to have the saintly image that they're portrayed and expected to have. At least be open and honest about it. Schools shouldn't be asking secondaries "how will you enact social change as a doctor" or some romantic crap like that.

ie it's not the doctors who need to be living up to society's unrealistic standards, it's society (and the medical community) who needs to make it's standards of what doctors do more realistic