Senate Scrolls

[DD214_DOC]

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Can someone explain to me what exactly is going on now? Is this another selection process like the board was? Is there any possibility of getting picked, accepting, but not being approved by the senate? What are they looking for?

 

[gravy4thebrain]

The Senate approval is usually automatic. This is a mechanism for the Congress to assess force strength and determine if the services are accurately reporting grade shape and critical specialities (e.g. service: "We don't have enough mid-grade field officers." the promotion list shows how many are being selected for promtion and how many officers are being passed-over).

Also, sometimes their is a minor scandal that a senator knows about and decides to not accept someone's promotion... perhaps the senator initiated CONGINTS on a particular commanding officer who is on a promotion list and the senator believes he is a turd and should not be promoted.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I get it. So for HPSP finalization, there's really nothing to worry about?

 

[gravy4thebrain]

That's right. Nothing to worry about until you are an admiral or are accussed of sexual harrassment, discrimination, or other henious offense.

 

[Monty Python]

Can someone explain to me what exactly is going on now? Is this another selection process like the board was? Is there any possibility of getting picked, accepting, but not being approved by the senate? What are they looking for?

My recruiter called me on 12 March, saying I was on the Army HPSP approved list but it still required Rumsfeld's rubber-stamp then Senate approval. A formality. But the Senators retain the right to red-line an individual.

This is not unusual. Other military appointments/selections/promotions require Senate confirmation. My O-4 promo a few years ago required Senate rubber-stamp; prior promos at lower grades did not.

 

[DD214_DOC]

My recruiter called me on 12 March, saying I was on the Army HPSP approved list but it still required Rumsfeld's rubber-stamp then Senate approval. A formality. But the Senators retain the right to red-line an individual.

This is not unusual. Other military appointments/selections/promotions require Senate confirmation. My O-4 promo a few years ago required Senate rubber-stamp; prior promos at lower grades did not.

Do you get to keep your rank? How does it work for prior service officers?

 

[Monty Python]

Do you get to keep your rank? How does it work for prior service officers?

By policy all HPSP students are carried/paid as O-1 irregardless of prior rank/duty/qualifications. Those with prior service are O-1 over # yrs service for pay purposes.

New graduates are promoted to O-3. Constructive time in grade for prior commissioned service at a given rank is awarded at 50% rate.

Meaning: say normal service time as an O-3, before eligibility for promotion to Medical Corps O-4, is 5 years. I already have 7 years service as an O-3. 7 years x 50% credit = 3.5 years time-in-grade credited towards the required 5 years as an O-3, meaning I would serve as a physician O-3 for only 1.5 years before promotion to O-4. My HPSP peers with no prior service would serve as O-3 for 5 full years.

Likewise, based on my service credit for time already served as an O-4, I'll only have to serve 3.5 years as a physician O-4 before being eligible for O-5. That timing would have me potentially pinning on LtCol exactly 5 years after med school graduation.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Interesting. Does residency count towards time as O-3, or only payback?

I reread your post and I guess not.

 

[Monty Python]

Interesting. Does residency count towards time as O-3, or only payback?

I reread your post and I guess not.

Residency counts as time in grade as an O-3, creditable towards promotion to O-4.

Residency time also counts towards HPSP payback, if done in a military hospital. Residency in a military hospital also incurs a year-for-year obligation, so essentially it's a wash.

Residency via deferment in a civilian hospital causes the payback clock to freeze until you finish residency.

Essentially everyone finishes residency (no matter how attained) still with a four year obligation. The only way to avoid it is do a one year military internship, followed by three year tour as a GMO, then get out. But then you still have to do a residency as a civilian to have a viable future.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Residency counts as time in grade as an O-3, creditable towards promotion to O-4.

Nice. So if one does a 6+ year residency, can he be promoted to O-4 while still a resident, or would that take place at the first board after completion of residency?

Is there a website with promotion information? I looked earlier but could not find any.

 

[Monty Python]

Nice. So if one does a 6+ year residency, can he be promoted to O-4 while still a resident, or would that take place at the first board after completion of residency?

Is there a website with promotion information? I looked earlier but could not find any.

While in general promotion eligibility, quotas, and timelines vary slightly from year to year (based on manpower allowances, which is based on funding, which is based on Congress' whims), you can think about it this way: everyone except physicians face relatively competitive promotion boards, with the competition becoming more fierce as you move up the ranks.

Pilots, tank drivers, artillery, submariners, infantry, paper pushers, etc etc all generally face this routine:

-- promotion to O-4 (Major/Lieutenant Commander) is pretty automatic unless you do something REALLY stupid or felonious along the way. Promoting to O-4 allows one to serve the 20 years needed to qualify for a pension. Promotion to O-5 is competitive (around 55-70%), and to O-6 is tough (40-50%). O-7 = one star general/admiral and is a tiny percentage.

Most non-physicians serve as follows, before being eligible for the next promotion:

2 years as O-1
2 years as O-2
6-ish years as O-3
6-ish years as O-4

To foster their retention and make the pay difference between military and civilian salaries more tolerable, the military tends to promote physicians much faster and much more automatically. If career-oriented, a physician will make O-5 just by being alive. Promotion to O-6 is still relatively competitive, but not nearly as much as for non-physicians.

Brand new graduates with no prior service as a commissioned officer start off as O-3, and will see automatic promotions every 5-ish years, until being considered for O-6 which is relatively competitive.

While I'm sure they exist buried deep on a personnel webpage, I don't know the exact URL for promotions/selection boards. The above information comes from my previous existence (pre-nursing school, pre-CRNA) as an Air Force personnel officer.

 

[Monty Python]

Nice. So if one does a 6+ year residency, can he be promoted to O-4 while still a resident.

And yes, physician promotion to O-4 automatically takes place irregardless of training or board status.

A new grad, with no prior service, would be an O-3 for probably five years and would automatically be promoted to O-4 based strictly on time-in-grade.

Promotion for physicians to O-4 and O-5 are automatic, all things considered. Promotion even for physicians to O-6 is relatively competitive. The things which make career-oriented physicians more competitive for O-6 are:

- the luck of the draw, based on the needs of the service at that point in time

- board certification

- command / management experience within military medicine

- generic professional officer continuing education, such as Command and Staff College (done in residence for 10 months fulltime, or by seminar or correspondence over several years).

Being just a good clinician is an expected given, and won't necessarily make someone extra competitive for O-6, unless you're in a critically and constantly understaffed combat-related specialty such as ortho, neurosurg, etc.

 

[edmadison]

say normal service time as an O-3, before eligibility for promotion to Medical Corps O-4, is 5 years.

My understanding is that "below the zone" promotions have been eliminated for O-3 to O-4 and thus everyone has to have six years.

Ed

 

[Dr. Wexler]

Essentially everyone finishes residency (no matter how attained) still with a four year obligation. The only way to avoid it is do a one year military internship, followed by three year tour as a GMO, then get out. But then you still have to do a residency as a civilian to have a viable future.

So internship satisfies one year of the HPSP obligation without incurring the year-for-year obligation that residency does?

 

[Monty Python]

So internship satisfies one year of the HPSP obligation without incurring the year-for-year obligation that residency does?

Yes, that's my understanding after reading multiple SDN threads for over a year, especially in Navy-oriented threads.

Unlike the other services, the Navy utilizes a large percentage of post-interns for 2-3 years as general medical officers, before they can compete for residency.

Those who (for whatever reason) don't do a military residency, or a deferred civilian residency on the military's nickle, get out after one year of internship and three years as GMO.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Wow, so how long does this senate stuff take?

 

[dtn3t]

Wow, so how long does this senate stuff take?

Dude, you got the scholarship. Relax.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Dude, you got the scholarship. Relax.

I know, I'm just curious because it's one more thing I could have finished and behind me.

 

[HumptyDumptyMil]

I got accepted for Air Force HPSP back in Jan. The scroll with my name on it still hasnt been approved. My recruiter is not so bright, and she didnt tell me about this scroll thing till end of Feb. I feel like I'm more knowledgable about the process than she is since the first day I met her

 

[usnavdoc]

Yes, that's my understanding after reading multiple SDN threads for over a year, especially in Navy-oriented threads.

Unlike the other services, the Navy utilizes a large percentage of post-interns for 2-3 years as general medical officers, before they can compete for residency.

Those who (for whatever reason) don't do a military residency, or a deferred civilian residency on the military's nickle, get out after one year of internship and three years as GMO.

VERY VERY WRONG. Military internship or civilian internship does NOT Count as HPSP Payback. If you have a 4 year HPSP scholarship you will pay at a minimum one year Internship and 4 years as a GMO. Thats 5 years total before RAD.