Senior in Undergrad pretty much failed past 4 years

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Cinz

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long story short, combination of multiple problems, mainly emotional, caused me to fail and fail and fail. I had great scores throughout middle and HS. Battled bad depression and anxiety through the last 3+ years. Im 22 years old now in my fourth year of college. Ive failed bio 2 and chem 1 three times each, not because of difficulty, but failure to do the work. (Ive literally aced exams in them and had almost an A exam average in biology one semester but still continue to fail because I procrastinate with homework or missed the final.)

I've been analyzing my study habits and learning difficulties now that my symptoms are somewhat under control and I continually am learning from my past mistakes. I failed some of the easiest basic courses(even some online humanities courses where there is literally like 10 minutes of coursework a week).

If I make a turnaround, with around 15+ Fs in my courses(I basically did nothing, and didn't realize how much of my parents money and my education I was wasting basically. I still did well on the exams in classes, which proves I still have the potential and with two siblings who are med students who received nothing but As throughout their lives) would a postbacc program help me? I have interest in becoming a doctor and no passion about anything else really.

I pretty much understand what I did wrong and have come up with a strategy to change my study habits, lifestyle, and mindset and have been doing so for at least the past year and half. Now it is time to fully implement/execute my plan and apply myself with no excuses. Now when I begin taking action and make a drastic turnaround and ace my courses from now on and replace all the Fs, would any type of postbacc program after graduation(2 years from now) help me? What options are there for undergrads that failed miserably and overcame the obstacle that was causing them to fail?

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I'm still figuring out how to be successful/competitive in my predmed journey myself so take this advice with a grain of salt.

I think the fact that you've recognized why you've performed poorly in your classes is a step in the right direction. The next step would be to retake all of your science classes (either in a formal post-bacc, DIY post bacc, or as an undergrad at your school if you're still able to) and do your best to ace them- go to office hours, don't skip class, review chapters/ppts etc before lecture, take notes, ask questions. For bio, it's repetition so you have to be willing to put the time in. For physics and chem, do all assigned problems, then re-do them and find others to do.

DO schools do grade replacement, but I'm under the impression that all of your attempts will be seen on your transcripts. That paired with good ECs, a strong MCAT score and good LORs and you could possibly have a chance.

Before any of that, however, you should address the depression, maybe try counseling at your school. I've battled depression before too and am still working on getting to a better place, so I totally relate. Medicine aside, your mental health is important so don't neglect it.

You're definitely in a tough spot but I'd like to think you still have a chance. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on any of this! :)
 
Anecdotally, you could train for and climb mount everest for a similar requirement of time, money, hard work, and luck.

That being said, its possible. Moving to Texas and applying for academic fresh start would be one option. Im sure there are others.
 
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Anecdotally, you could train for and climb mount everest for a similar requirement of time, money, hard work, and luck.

That being said, its possible. Moving to Texas and applying for academic fresh start would be one option. Im sure there are others.

Academic fresh start only applies to grades that are > 10 years old, so its not an option unless he wants to wait 10 years. Honestly, short of acing those F's and murdering the MCAT (and only applying to DO schools), there is little chance. Taking even one semester to test the waters will cost topic poster several thousand dollars and its just not really a prudent move.
 
Grade replacement is not an option as of May 2017. So you either need to do a post-bac (upper-level sciences) or post-bac+SMP (special masters program)
 
Sorry. Yes, for DO schools.
 
Academic fresh start only applies to grades that are > 10 years old, so its not an option unless he wants to wait 10 years. Honestly, short of acing those F's and murdering the MCAT (and only applying to DO schools), there is little chance. Taking even one semester to test the waters will cost topic poster several thousand dollars and its just not really a prudent move.
DO schools are scrapping grade replacement in the next year or two. He'll basically need like, 8 years of straight As to get in at this point.
 
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Grade replacement is not an option as of May 2017. So you either need to do a post-bac (upper-level sciences) or post-bac+SMP (special masters program)

Today I Learned.

Wow, that was abrupt. When did they make that decision?
 
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Figure out what your gpa is, get an idea of how many A's it would take to get close to a 3.0, and evaluate from there. No one is a lost cause, but it's going to be a hard road, lots of work, lots of $$. The problem your going to run into is that the SMP programs often aren't the easiest to get into on their own. If you're serious about moving forward, I would expect it's going to take you at least another 3+ years to get within the realm of possibility being ready to apply. 4.0 the classes you have left, think about taking some time off, return with more maturity/dedication/etc, kill another year, then look at smp's might be a possible way forward - although I'll let other people chime in that know more about post-bac/SMP than I do. Nothing is going to be easy from here forward, and you'll have no room for mistakes. The death of retakes is going to be a HUGE loss for you
 
Grade replacement is not an option as of May 2017. So you either need to do a post-bac (upper-level sciences) or post-bac+SMP (special masters program)

Grade replacement goes away in effect 3 years from now.
 
In regards to the grade replacement.
http://www.aacom.org/become-a-doctor/applying/notice-of-repeat-coursework-policy-change
Osteopathic medical schools may continue recalculating and weighing applicant GPAs per their established admissions practices. The scope of this policy change is limited to the AACOMAS verified GPA calculation.

Admissions are different case by case. Its not a computer doing ALL the work. There are admissions officers there after all, who see past numbers.


Anyways I think I got a shot. considering i think i just unlocked my potential. both my sis who are in med school never got a B in a single course. Im gonna do what it takes. Screw the past. If I can get the best grades from now on, would they rather want a consistent mediocre(relative to admits) student, or someone who just did a 180 and aced everything and nailed the MCAT.

hmmm

I guess I'll just have to see rather than posting on a forum.

Either way, I'm going to be a doctor at the end. Lets say I don't get in like 3 years from now after a post-bac. I've got several options. Continue another post-bac or go out of the country somewhere, heck maybe some western euro countries would be able to see through the past. But as of now, my main focus is acing the next two+ years and aiming for a school here. Probably going to get/need a lot of mentoring and speak to some adcoms later down the road. I understand its going to be a lot of hard work. Nothing feels better than doing the best you can and enjoying it while you do it.
 
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The can do attitude is great - but make sure you are grounded in your approach moving forward, and set yourself up for success. To start with, you statement sadly is only partially true. Trending is huge, but I can tell you right now, stats matter, no matter what anyone says about "holistic" approaches. The truth of the matter is, they would more oft than not take the mediocre person. Don't take this as discouragement though - use it to motivate yourself, knowing you have to do every little thing you can to show your previous work isnt who you are. Be open and willing to talk about your failures, what you've learned from them, and how they make you a stronger student.

Many students I've worked with through this process (I was the pres of our premed honor society, and am a much older non-trad) after every term they did poorly had this similar discussion - just like a New Years resolution. And usually, things didn't change and they continued to have problems. The main reason, they didn't address any of the underlying causes. To turn those words into reality, there needs to be real change, introspection, difficult discussions, and some way to hold yourself accountable.

The only reason I'm even taking the time to write this is that I know it can be done. I know others on this site like to be callous, and people often come on here saying similar things to you, "I'm gonna turn things around', and are never to be heard from again and likely didn't succeed. That's just a fact. But I take a different view; for every 10 of those stories, if just 1 more person succeeds because they got encouragement and someone took the time to offer real advice, than that's worth it.

So if you'd like to talk more - I'm more than happy to give all the advice and help I can (feel free to PM if you'd like) - otherwise good luck!


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AACOMAS who calculates your official scores, has effectively from today drops it's replacement policy, so your primary stats will from now on not use repeats. Can schools take the time to calculate their own GPA's in addition - yes - will they, most likely not. See the thread where Goro and other adcoms chimed in. The key in the policy is basically "schools are allowed to do whatever they want - but AACOMAS is now providing them officials GPA's this new way and its how schools are going to get the data"

And yes and no - it actually is a computer just calculating your GPA, with a person verifying the data entry portion was correct and double checking how things were assigned out.


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AACOMAS who calculates your official scores, has effectively from today drops it's replacement policy, so your primary stats will from now on not use repeats. Can schools take the time to calculate their own GPA's in addition - yes - will they, most likely not. See the thread where Goro and other adcoms chimed in. The key in the policy is basically "schools are allowed to do whatever they want - but AACOMAS is now providing them officials GPA's this new way and its how schools are going to get the data"

And yes and no - it actually is a computer just calculating your GPA, with a person verifying the data entry portion was correct and double checking how things were assigned out.


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Yea thats the initial process. Then theres calling the actual school. Good thing is once I got a focus on something my perseverance doesn't drop and for some reason I just can't stop. But yea I'm still looking forward to a post-bac program possibly even an MD one. Since some post-bac programs have guaranteed interviews if you get a certain GPA, that will at least let them see through the aacom calculated gpa.

Also I forgot to say.

Most of the Fs, luckily were kept in the community college, and were in the lower level basics, and two prereqs, Bio2 and Chem1(failed 3 times each).

I didn't fail or even ATTEMPT any other major prereq or even science course really. I literally failed some stupid humanities courses for the same reason.

I luckily don't even have that many attempted credits., I'm really only like juniors level. And by four years I mean four years of on/off college.

But yea I completely analyzed my self, mindset, reasons for error. Basically I'm going to leave no room for error. I literally did almost two weeks of my physics homework already and its only the third day of class. Honestly if I had realized how easy these courses are when you space things out, things would have been a lot better.

Anyone else in my situation who knows who they are, where they came from, and what they can do, should not even think of getting nothing less than the best. I don't hold my braniac family responsible for myself, I hold myself responsible for everything. No one can help you except yourself.

As far as numbers. Yea thats what it means for most competitive schools. Numbers numbers numbers. If you can secure a 3.0, then you at least get the right to speak. 4.0 your in etc. Once you've got your **** together, focus on the results, the numbers, the presentation of the application.
 
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A friend of mine was told to leave college after having a GPA of .6 since he failed every class. He was able to get his youth out of his system and he went back to college and started over. This time, graduated Suma Cum Laude and is now an Anesthetist/Intesivist after graduating from medical school and doing his residency and fellowship at Dartmouth. Let me tell you, you are looking at a very long road ahead.

You need to show that you are no longer that person and that you can handle the work now. The MCAT and applying to medical school should not even be on your mind because if there is no improvement in the GPA, there is no chance.
 
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A friend of mine was told to leave college after having a GPA of .6 since he failed every class. He was able to get his youth out of his system and he went back to college and started over. This time, graduated Suma Cum Laude and is now an Anesthetist/Intesivist after graduating from medical school and doing his residency and fellowship at Dartmouth. Let me tell you, you are looking at a very long road ahead.

You need to show that you are no longer that person and that you can handle the work now. The MCAT and applying to medical school should not even be on your mind because if there is no improvement in the GPA, there is no chance.

It turns out ill need like 25+ courses with As to get a 3.0 . Might as well do a business minor once I bring my science gpa up. Right now doing only sciences, once I get the science gpa up, going to do a bunch of business/finance courses. Dual MD/MBA seems to open up a wide amount of careers, such as pharma sales, CFO anyone?


It shouldn't be as bad as I thought. At least I'll be learning this time rather than memorizing. Taking 7 courses this semester too.. I'll be taking courses nonstop next two years. Once I prove to myself this semester, then at least I have something to stand on and rest will be history.

Right now I'm just focused on getting the 3.0, and probably going to have to kill the MCAT with like a 517+ .

Thank god for the MCAT.
 
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Again just be realistic. That's 97th percentile - out of 90,000+ people that took the exam. And this isn't like your standard undergrad class - almost everyone taking it is smart, hard working, and expecting to do well. There aren't many casual takers - it's like people say in med school, most people go from the top of their class in undergrad to likely being middle of the road. Same with the MCAT, and because it's got a fixed distribution and is about percentiles, you can't count on just crushing it. I think you seriously underestimate how difficult it is to get those kind of scores. I guarantee your first practice full length will be insightful, and most likely a humbling expierence. Setting realistic goals is a much smarter option than thinking/planning on being in the top 3% of one of the most difficult academic test in the country taken by some of the brightest and hardest working individuals. Food for thought.


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Again just be realistic. That's 97th percentile - out of 90,000+ people that took the exam. And this isn't like your standard undergrad class - almost everyone taking it is smart, hard working, and expecting to do well. There aren't many casual takers - it's like people say in med school, most people go from the top of their class in undergrad to likely being middle of the road. Same with the MCAT, and because it's got a fixed distribution and is about percentiles, you can't count on just crushing it. I think you seriously underestimate how difficult it is to get those kind of scores. I guarantee your first practice full length will be insightful, and most likely a humbling expierence. Setting realistic goals is a much smarter option than thinking/planning on being in the top 3% of one of the most difficult academic test in the country taken by some of the brightest and hardest working individuals. Food for thought.


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I know your right. Scores like that can be pretty difficult to achieve, and there are a lot of people with too high hopes thinking they can do anything. In real life, however, I am kind of practical person, which is why I often feel a bit discouraged from my past mistakes. I was kind of just retaliating to those giving sarcastic replies. But the thing is, there are exceptions. I have proven myself before that I'm a good test taker, in the midst of horrible situations, addiction and failing grades, which I have completely come out of now that I'm 22 and maturing everyday. My problem began in high school, where I went from top 5% of class in 10th grade (3000 total, 800 class) to like the bottom 1% in 12th grade, and my coursework was a lot rigorous in the first two years with AP/IB. Yes I literally failed a bunch intermediate level courses my senior year in high school because of my snowballing depressive episode.

I don't really know if others problems in similar situations were caused by other issues(psychological,medical,family,financial), or if they just slacked off/ never had a history of being a good student, where I did, humbly speaking.

For me it was a a little bit of both. While I managed to do well early on with my bad study habits, the major depressive episode following some stupid thing in high school caused a sort of snowball effect. Basically I dug myself into a hole and had to climb out, and still am to this day and a while to go.

I do want to be unrealistic obviously, but I want some realistic and practical tips as well on here rather than troll/sarcastic posts. I want a clearcut path that can get me into a medical school here, regardless of the difficulty. I know an MCAT score equivalent to a 40 on the old score isn't realistic, but a 35, given my prior experience with standardized exams and siblings scores, I think it can be done be discipline and perseverance.

Also I don't really want to go out of the country, that's why I'm trying my best here. As of now I'm still aiming for the best I can get here.

Now does anyone have any advice on what I can do about the poor grades at the three community colleges I've been to. (Yes I've been to around five high-lever institutions). I'm not even sure which school records are tied to my social security. And since we are talking all about numbers and computer-automated admissions here, I frankly don't care about excluding some of my failures if thats how the schools want to play the game. If they are willing to see the more holistic side of the application, I'd be more than willing to make everything known to them. I used to hear countless posts on forums about being honest blah blah blah. But unfortunately some schools don't care about your stories because they don't have a lifetime to hear people explaining this and that when there are many other qualified applicants.

For me, my story would be about making a 180 degree turn overcoming my psych, medical, and personal issues and becoming a new person(academically). This doesn't have that often, because it's more more difficult to climb out of a deep hole than to walk on a flat surface. It takes a different kind of person.

Also, I have nothing against going out of the country. It's just that there are many other issues, such as the limited number of residency spots for IMGs etc. Also I would rather have an American-based education because I believe it would be of higher quality. I want to earn a spot here rather than bribe some country to take me. I see a lot of IMG and such that seem very limited in their ability and want to take the domestic route.

Now, I do know its possible to get in here still, but does it really mean having to take 25+ class to bring my GPA to the minimum of 3.0?

Would anything below a 3.0, such as a 2.0 or 2.5, make it practically impossible to gain admission? Are there any sort of appeal procedures regarding that?

Regardless, I still have to focus on the now, but without a clear path in sight, I do feel a slight decrease in motivation. I mean, if you were in a position where you have to work your ass off only to have very limited options in the end, how would you feel. If I had a clear start, at least I would know there would be a TON of options in sight. I want my hard work now to pay off the same way as another person working hard NOW. I don't want the past used against me.

Btw, there are some good international programs (non-carribbean), that have partnerships with hospitals in the USA, such in Australia and Ireland.
 
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How would I feel? Speaking as someone who has four years of adcom experience, I would feel that you are not yet ready for medical school, either personally or academically. Given your posts here and your college record, this conclusion seems fairly indisputable.

So what to do? Well, the first thing one should do when finding oneself in a hole is to stop digging it deeper. Thus, my advice to you is this: take some time off from school. If you're still enrolled, drop out, tomorrow. Seriously. Then go get a job, and start demonstrating an adult level of maturity and responsibility. Get yourself an apartment if you haven't already. Pay your bills on time every month. Learn some real-world work skills, like showing up on time, accomplishing tasks set to you by your supervisor, and being part of a team. Work hard at your job so that you excel and get promoted/given additional responsibilities. Transform yourself into someone who has something of value to offer to others.

In addition, start volunteering somewhere that will give you direct patient contact, such as at a hospital, a hospice, or a nursing home. You don't have to put in a ton of time; just 1-2 hours once per week is sufficient. If there's some other cause that is meaningful to you (say, promoting literacy, or preventing hunger, or stopping animal cruelty), feel free to do some non-medically themed volunteering as well.

Do the above (full time job, part time volunteering) for at least the next two years, and then reassess how you feel about your career. If, in 2019, you still want to go to medical school, your prior academic record is poor enough that you would probably be best served by simply starting over and earning an entire college degree from scratch. At that point, you can start talking to area colleges about your options for enrolling as a student and taking classes. It goes without saying that you should not even consider taking any further classes until you are prepared to do the level of work that is necessary to earn As in all of them (or as close to it as possible).

Unfortunately, even if you totally ace a second BS degree, those poor prior grades will still have to be reported to the medical schools. And since AACOMAS is doing away with their grade replacement policy, you will never have a fabulous total GPA. But the good news is that time is your friend, both in terms of giving you a chance to mature and in terms of distancing yourself from the unfocused person you are right now. If you go to the medical schools in 6-7 years with two successful years of FT work experience and four years of 3.8+ GPA coursework, that is going to go a long way toward assuaging an adcom's concerns about your immaturity or lack of academic ability.

Hope this is helpful in thinking the problem through, and best of luck to you.
 
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How would I feel? Speaking as someone who has four years of adcom experience, I would feel that you are not yet ready for medical school, either personally or academically. Given your posts here and your college record, this conclusion seems fairly indisputable.

So what to do? Well, the first thing one should do when finding oneself in a hole is to stop digging it deeper. Thus, my advice to you is this: take some time off from school. If you're still enrolled, drop out, tomorrow. Seriously. Then go get a job, and start demonstrating an adult level of maturity and responsibility. Get yourself an apartment if you haven't already. Pay your bills on time every month. Learn some real-world work skills, like showing up on time, accomplishing tasks set to you by your supervisor, and being part of a team. Work hard at your job so that you excel and get promoted/given additional responsibilities. Transform yourself into someone who has something of value to offer to others.

In addition, start volunteering somewhere that will give you direct patient contact, such as at a hospital, a hospice, or a nursing home. You don't have to put in a ton of time; just 1-2 hours once per week is sufficient. If there's some other cause that is meaningful to you (say, promoting literacy, or preventing hunger, or stopping animal cruelty), feel free to do some non-medically themed volunteering as well.

Do the above (full time job, part time volunteering) for at least the next two years, and then reassess how you feel about your career. If, in 2019, you still want to go to medical school, your prior academic record is poor enough that you would probably be best served by simply starting over and earning an entire college degree from scratch. At that point, you can start talking to area colleges about your options for enrolling as a student and taking classes. It goes without saying that you should not even consider taking any further classes until you are prepared to do the level of work that is necessary to earn As in all of them (or as close to it as possible).

Unfortunately, even if you totally ace a second BS degree, those poor prior grades will still have to be reported to the medical schools. And since AACOMAS is doing away with their grade replacement policy, you will never have a fabulous total GPA. But the good news is that time is your friend, both in terms of giving you a chance to mature and in terms of distancing yourself from the unfocused person you are right now. If you go to the medical schools in 6-7 years with two successful years of FT work experience and four years of 3.8+ GPA coursework, that is going to go a long way toward assuaging an adcom's concerns about your immaturity or lack of academic ability.

Hope this is helpful in thinking the problem through, and best of luck to you.

This is excellent advice! :thumbup: If it's your true passion, it will not have wavered, even after a period of 6 years.

OP - you'll still be young, and you will likely be in an even better place mentally and emotionally to make a great comeback.
 
Agreed. I'm going on 31 in a month, and returned and spent the past 6 almost 7 years pursing this goal. I am more committed now than the first day I stepped back into the classroom with a clear goal in mind. Honestly, it amazes me seeing the people going through the system at such a young age. You will mature, your perspectives will change, and you'll be a better person for it if you take the time to do this the right way.

Side benefit of doing it Quimica's way - if you finish your degree and try to take classes, most places have horrid policies on post bac students. UW you're not allowed to register till after the first day of class. Trying to do an entire post-bac redemption can be a nightmarish expierence if this is how you chose to do it


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ill take his advice but my parents are encouraging me to go out of the country (not the carribbean)

this is of course assuming I do make the change now. And I did take a year off last year so technically its my 4th year currently.

I might not be an ideal candidate according to the faculty, but one doesnt have to be ideally mature emotionally and academically to MAKE it in medical school.

Adcoms will advise you regarding what they see as optimal, or recommended, but not the minimum.

Regardless I totally understand him about maturity and wish to do what he suggests in reasonably less time, probably go to med school in 3 years that is. Ill work twice as hard if I have to. And I calculating the number of courses I need to get a 3.0+ GPA I can finish it in two years. I control what I do and how much work I want to do.

Also my dad is also a PhD and has served on the faculty at a medical school and gave me tons of advice /predictions which never turned out true . I have proven many people wrong many times in the past and will continue to do so because I know of some other options.

Did anyone also forget my extreme lack of stability going to many, many colleges. My problem began in the middle of HIGH SCHOOL, not college. It was a problem that happened due to one or two traumatic events. So you can't simply blame it on someone without knowing their history.

I'm not worried anymore. I know theres a reward coming.
 
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ill take his advice but my parents are encouraging me to go out of the country (not the carribbean)

this is of course assuming I do make the change now. And I did take a year off last year so technically its my 4th year currently.

I might not be an ideal candidate according to the faculty, but one doesnt have to be ideally mature emotionally and academically to MAKE it in medical school.

Adcoms will advise you regarding what they see as optimal, or recommended, but not the minimum.

Regardless I totally understand him about maturity and wish to do what he suggests in reasonably less time, probably go to med school in 3 years that is. Ill work twice as hard if I have to. And I calculating the number of courses I need to get a 3.0+ GPA I can finish it in two years. I control what I do and how much work I want to do.

Also my dad is also a PhD and has served on the faculty at a medical school and gave me tons of advice /predictions which never turned out true . I have proven many people wrong many times in the past and will continue to do so because I know of some other options.

Did anyone also forget my extreme lack of stability going to many, many colleges. My problem began in the middle of HIGH SCHOOL, not college. It was a problem that happened due to one or two traumatic events. So you can't simply blame it on someone without knowing their history.

I'm not worried anymore. I know theres a reward coming.


After all that I'm going to have to agree with
How would I feel? Speaking as someone who has four years of adcom experience, I would feel that you are not yet ready for medical school, either personally or academically. Given your posts here and your college record, this conclusion seems fairly indisputable.

You've been given some golden advice and you're choosing to disregard it. You made your bed but are refusing to lie in it. You don't have a quick path to medicine. you are not getting into medical school in 3 years. If it really is what you truly want to do you really do have a mountain to climb. If you think you can get in with anything less than what QofQuimica advised, the best of luck to you. You're going to need it.
 
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Now does anyone have any advice on what I can do about the poor grades at the three community colleges I've been to. (Yes I've been to around five high-lever institutions). I'm not even sure which school records are tied to my social security. And since we are talking all about numbers and computer-automated admissions here, I frankly don't care about excluding some of my failures if thats how the schools want to play the game. If they are willing to see the more holistic side of the application, I'd be more than willing to make everything known to them. I used to hear countless posts on forums about being honest blah blah blah. But unfortunately some schools don't care about your stories because they don't have a lifetime to hear people explaining this and that when there are many other qualified applicants.
AMCAS routinely cross checks applications with a National Clearinghouse that includes all previously enrolled students. You will sign an attestation that you have included all schools post high school. Leaving out schools where you performed poorly will initiate an investigation that will call your integrity into question. This tends to be a deal-breaker...
 
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AMCAS routinely cross checks applications with a National Clearinghouse that includes all previously enrolled students. You will sign an attestation that you have included all schools post high school. Leaving out schools where you performed poorly will initiate an investigation that will call your integrity into question. This tends to be a deal-breaker...


I didn't say I was going to exclude anything when I apply to schools here. Besides a few schools I went to were as a non-matriculated and in fact they did not report my enrollment to the clearinghouse.... I know a lot about the national clearinghouse.



After all that I'm going to have to agree with


You've been given some golden advice and you're choosing to disregard it. You made your bed but are refusing to lie in it. You don't have a quick path to medicine. you are not getting into medical school in 3 years. If it really is what you truly want to do you really do have a mountain to climb. If you think you can get in with anything less than what QofQuimica advised, the best of luck to you. You're going to need it.

I didn't say I'm disregarding it. I am getting into medical school in three years, I bet your life on it.

Also, you're not going to get through medical school. You might as well drop out
 
@Cinz did you bother to see who it was that replied to you about leaving things off your app? Take a look at his status- and just know, you are throwing some ****ty ethics out there right now - justify it all you want, it doesn't matter any of the things you said, you are leaving academics off your application which is not allowed. Your attitude/maturity/etc clearly need to change before dreaming of moving forward.

I'm setting a reminder in my phones cal in 3 years to check in on SND and Cinz....
 
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I didn't say I'm disregarding it. I am getting into medical school in three years, I bet your life on it.

Also, you're not going to get through medical school. You might as well drop out

Whoa friend, that's a lot of hostility. I'm just agreeing with someone who is more than qualified to asses your current situation. Furthermore, I think it's a bit unfair for you to make predictions about my academic career when you don't really know anything about me. I wish you the best, I really do, but with your situation and that attitude it definitely seems like you've got quite the job ahead of you.

Also, for future reference, you can't bet something that's not yours ;).
 
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I am getting into medical school in three years, I bet your life on it.
Couple points:

1. your original post sounds a lot like my life (a decade or so ago... let that settle in your mind a little...)
2. Q is a female
3. Q is well respected here on the forum and in real life
4. you've just set yourself up for failure by ignoring the sage advice of everyone here
5. as noted, you can't bet something that doesn't belong to you (noted in the bolded word in your quote)
 
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Best advice would be to graduate from college now if possible, then do something concretely productive and get your stuff together. It sounds like you're in the process of that, but it would behoove you to get away from school for a year, then go back and do a post-bacc to redo most or all of your science classes. If you do very well (As in nearly everything), you could apply and explain that in your traditional college years, you had issues...but that you figured it out and proved you have what it takes academically.

If you apply now, you most likely have no chance of acceptance.


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Agreed. I'm going on 31 in a month, and returned and spent the past 6 almost 7 years pursing this goal. I am more committed now than the first day I stepped back into the classroom with a clear goal in mind. Honestly, it amazes me seeing the people going through the system at such a young age. You will mature, your perspectives will change, and you'll be a better person for it if you take the time to do this the right way.

Side benefit of doing it Quimica's way - if you finish your degree and try to take classes, most places have horrid policies on post bac students. UW you're not allowed to register till after the first day of class. Trying to do an entire post-bac redemption can be a nightmarish expierence if this is how you chose to do it


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Uni of Washington or Wisconsin?!
 
@Cinz Look! Just want to let you know that I am going through a lot similar experience as you are except I am 27 years old. I was like you when I was younger, full of hope and trying to get into medical school as soon as possible. However, throughout these process, I was basically ignoring my deficiencies and didn't allow myself a chance to mature and be wiser. At first, I was so against the advice of taking time off and work for a few years because that would prolonged my time of becoming a doctor. In the end, that is the best advice given. Yes, it would take a lot of time, but if your dream in becoming doctor is authentic and still true throughout these life experiences, then you will have a whole new insights and motivations to succeed further. I think you still have potential to be a doctor, but sometimes, right now or in three years is not the time just yet. You're still young. Live you life.
 
Anecdotally, you could train for and climb mount everest for a similar requirement of time, money, hard work, and luck.

That being said, its possible. Moving to Texas and applying for academic fresh start would be one option. Im sure there are others.

could i ask for your advice? similar situation with failing and all but in undergrad. at my school you can register for independent research credits with a professor as a freshman/sophomore, and they are pass/fail (s/u). i signed up for 3 credits last semester while learning the techniques and i got a pass from my PI pretty easily. this semester i'm taking 17 credits so i only signed up for 1.5 research credits since our credit max is 18.5. my PI told me i haven't done enough work this semester (in terms of data and experiments) and she told me she plans to give me a fail for those credits. HELP i'm scared i will get continuously questioned about this throughout the application process. it won't affect my GPA and i'm a good student but she thinks i haven't done enough. technically 1.5 credits that she is grading me on means coming in for 4-5 hours/week which i have definitely done, even if it isn't enough work for me to stay in the lab, i still have spent enough time in lab to pass. i will talk to my advisor about withdrawing from the research and if that doesn't work i'll try to talk to my PI. but what if nothing works and i end up with an unsatisfactory on my transcript? how bad will that affect my application? what can i do?
 
It won't impact your GPA, but unless you garner a letter from that PI that somehow paints you in a positive light despite receiving an unsatisfactory for the course (ie, John is an amazing researcher but was hospitalized and unable to complete the required hrs which necessitated me to mark him as not passing), then I think it might actually be worse than an F letter grade, since medicine (especially the trend in modern medicine) is to create a generation of physicians with better people skills. In this scenario, getting an unsatisfactory rating from a PI makes it look like your interpersonal skills are not up to par yet.
 
It won't impact your GPA, but unless you garner a letter from that PI that somehow paints you in a positive light despite receiving an unsatisfactory for the course (ie, John is an amazing researcher but was hospitalized and unable to complete the required hrs which necessitated me to mark him as not passing), then I think it might actually be worse than an F letter grade, since medicine (especially the trend in modern medicine) is to create a generation of physicians with better people skills. In this scenario, getting an unsatisfactory rating from a PI makes it look like your interpersonal skills are not up to par yet.

my explanation for getting a U or withdrawing is going to be regarding severe health problems that both of my parents have been diagnosed with this semester, which prevented me from going into lab as often as i would've otherwise liked. then i plan to start a new project next year and hopefully start fresh with a new lab and PI and get a letter of rec that way. would this be a decent strategy?
 
my explanation for getting a U or withdrawing is going to be regarding severe health problems that both of my parents have been diagnosed with this semester, which prevented me from going into lab as often as i would've otherwise liked. then i plan to start a new project next year and hopefully start fresh with a new lab and PI and get a letter of rec that way. would this be a decent strategy?

I can't speak to how an adcom member may look at it, but, as someone who has done research, if it is listed on your application and there is something negative about it, I would want it cleared up. A passing grade with no letter would be fine or an unsatisfactory with a letter of endorsement from that PI would be fine, but I would be skeptical of anything you told me in an interview if you didn't have something from that PI to back up your side of the story.
 
I can't speak to how an adcom member may look at it, but, as someone who has done research, if it is listed on your application and there is something negative about it, I would want it cleared up. A passing grade with no letter would be fine or an unsatisfactory with a letter of endorsement from that PI would be fine, but I would be skeptical of anything you told me in an interview if you didn't have something from that PI to back up your side of the story.

i don't think there is any way for my PI to back me up, though i could definitely have a counselor or advisor attest to things that i was going through at that time. my PI is very cold and not an understanding person, she just thinks i'm lazy and i don't think me telling her about circumstances that were out of my control would change anything... if i get an unsatisfactory grade all i can really say is my story. and hopefully i can put enough details and emotion into it that they will believe me
 
i don't think there is any way for my PI to back me up, though i could definitely have a counselor or advisor attest to things that i was going through at that time. my PI is very cold and not an understanding person, she just thinks i'm lazy and i don't think me telling her about circumstances that were out of my control would change anything... if i get an unsatisfactory grade all i can really say is my story. and hopefully i can put enough details and emotion into it that they will believe me

It might be OK, but if it were me and I couldn't get the PI to cut me some slack for a legitimate issue, I would run it up the chain of command and exhaust every possible avenue to get some reprieve from that grade. I've seen undergrads take issues to dept chairs and get their grades changed nearly 100% of the time for something a crappy professor did, and I've seen it while attending a highly ranked private school, as well as a big state university, so from my perspective, it doesn't seem uncommon.

The reason I urge you to get the best possible resolution for the situation is that once you are in the applicant pool, you would be amazed at how competitive the people you are going up against already are. There will be tons of high GPA/High MCAT/great EC candidates. So, how do they sort them out? One way is by looking for red flags. Thus, your best plan of action is to not have any in your application to begin with, rather than hoping they will see past it and give you an opportunity to explain. The one caveat is that an often raised prompt is the "overcoming adversity" essay for secondaries, which might offer you a chance to expound upon the situation.
 
It might be OK, but if it were me and I couldn't get the PI to cut me some slack for a legitimate issue, I would run it up the chain of command and exhaust every possible avenue to get some reprieve from that grade. I've seen undergrads take issues to dept chairs and get their grades changed nearly 100% of the time for something a crappy professor did, and I've seen it while attending a highly ranked private school, as well as a big state university, so from my perspective, it doesn't seem uncommon.

The reason I urge you to get the best possible resolution for the situation is that once you are in the applicant pool, you would be amazed at how competitive the people you are going up against already are. There will be tons of high GPA/High MCAT/great EC candidates. So, how do they sort them out? One way is by looking for red flags. Thus, your best plan of action is to not have any in your application to begin with, rather than hoping they will see past it and give you an opportunity to explain. The one caveat is that an often raised prompt is the "overcoming adversity" essay for secondaries, which might offer you a chance to expound upon the situation.

yeah you're right, it's easier and better to not have to explain this type of red flag, though if i had to i think i would be able to discuss it adequately. i'm trying to get an exception to withdraw from the course currently based on circumstances in my family and mental health for the semester. if that doesn't work, what would you recommend i say to the biology dept chair? do they usually have any say? i go to a private, heavily research-focused top 10 school and they put a lot of money into research. i don't know if the dept chair would back me up at all, but my main reasoning is that my lab mentor didn't communicate with me well, didn't delegate work to me and often didn't respect my time/blew me off. what are the next steps to maximize success based on what you've seen? (thank you so much)

also found out the dept chair was one of my biochem professors and i did well in his class. should i try to go to him during office hours or something and discuss protein function first?
 
Well, depending on your hierarchy at your school, the dept chair should be your first stop, but then typically the dean of the college (ie, the dean of the college of science), and then to the dean of students. I've never known anyone to ever have to go past the dean of students to get an issue resolved but you could then also technically go to see the university president. If you had a legitimate reason, and someone in that chain of command doesn't help you, it looks very bad for the school. The last thing any school wants is for it to have a bad rep with students because that directly influences the future class makeup.

Just make sure you have something to back up what you are saying, for example, a note from your healthcare professional or a point of contact that could verify your family situation. The more compelling your case, the less likely to dismiss your issue as simply sour grapes. As far as visiting the chair early for some other reason, it could probably go either way, but I would probably choose not to see them in advance because it might seem like you were preconditioning them to bring up the issue.
 
It might be OK, but if it were me and I couldn't get the PI to cut me some slack for a legitimate issue, I would run it up the chain of command and exhaust every possible avenue to get some reprieve from that grade. I've seen undergrads take issues to dept chairs and get their grades changed nearly 100% of the time for something a crappy professor did, and I've seen it while attending a highly ranked private school, as well as a big state university, so from my perspective, it doesn't seem uncommon.

The reason I urge you to get the best possible resolution for the situation is that once you are in the applicant pool, you would be amazed at how competitive the people you are going up against already are. There will be tons of high GPA/High MCAT/great EC candidates. So, how do they sort them out? One way is by looking for red flags. Thus, your best plan of action is to not have any in your application to begin with, rather than hoping they will see past it and give you an opportunity to explain. The one caveat is that an often raised prompt is the "overcoming adversity" essay for secondaries, which might offer you a chance to expound upon the situation.
Well, depending on your hierarchy at your school, the dept chair should be your first stop, but then typically the dean of the college (ie, the dean of the college of science), and then to the dean of students. I've never known anyone to ever have to go past the dean of students to get an issue resolved but you could then also technically go to see the university president. If you had a legitimate reason, and someone in that chain of command doesn't help you, it looks very bad for the school. The last thing any school wants is for it to have a bad rep with students because that directly influences the future class makeup.

Just make sure you have something to back up what you are saying, for example, a note from your healthcare professional or a point of contact that could verify your family situation. The more compelling your case, the less likely to dismiss your issue as simply sour grapes. As far as visiting the chair early for some other reason, it could probably go either way, but I would probably choose not to see them in advance because it might seem like you were preconditioning them to bring up the issue.

thank you, that's super helpful! if she does fail me, should i go to the chair and ask him to change my grade based on family circumstances (and pi not telling me she'd fail me until two days ago) or based on my mentor not meeting me halfway and it being an unfair situation? they are pretty different but both true stories and i'm not sure which one i should emphasize
 
thank you, that's super helpful! if she does fail me, should i go to the chair and ask him to change my grade based on family circumstances (and pi not telling me she'd fail me until two days ago) or based on my mentor not meeting me halfway and it being an unfair situation? they are pretty different but both true stories and i'm not sure which one i should emphasize

If it were me, I would explain the circumstances first and try not to make it personal about your PI. You might mention that when you tried to approach the subject with the PI the pushback you got made you uncomfortable discussing the situation further due to working so closely with them. This allows the higher-up to make an adjustment based on circumstance without feeling the need to punish the PI (which, therefore makes it easier for them to say yes). It seems your PI sucks, but your goal is to avoid the red flag, not punish the PI, so stick to the goal, which is to eventually matriculate to medical school.
 
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