serious drug use anyone?

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serious drug use anyone???

  • I have abused drugs (including prescription) on a regular basis (not including alcohol or weed)

    Votes: 27 14.1%
  • I have never abused drugs (not including alcohol or weed)

    Votes: 129 67.2%
  • I have/had a serious problem with drug abuse (not including alcohol or weed)

    Votes: 9 4.7%
  • I would be okay with having a physician who has abused drugs

    Votes: 50 26.0%
  • I would not be okay with having a physician who has abused drugs

    Votes: 96 50.0%

  • Total voters
    192

fakemember

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First of all, for those of you who didn't catch on to the user name (hopefully not many missed it) this is a dummy account. I am not a troll, but I do have serious things about my past that I wanted to bring up without using my regular user name.
Thanks in advance for taking this seriously

I am wondering who, if anybody, in this forum has had significant experience with recreation drug use other than marijuana. I know there have been polls about this in the past, but my focus is more on whether the drug use became a problem.

I have done pretty much every drug you can name and had a serious problem with cocaine from age 16-20. I have continued to use cocaine about once or twice a year since then, and I usually binge for at least 24-48hrs when I do it. I never get cravings for the drug, it is just usually offered to me at least a few times a year, and if it doesn't interfere with what is going on in my life I choose to do it.
I also smoke weed fairly regularly and while I don't drink heavily this year, I have through most of my undergrad.

The only point to this post is that I needed to get this off my chest and see if anyone else can relate. I parade around this forum worrying about my GPA and MCAT, but sometimes real life things like this get to me.

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FYI I left alcohol off because while I think it is a serious problem, it is also much more accepted by society.

weed I left off because in my opinion is doesn't resemble a serious drug in any way...frankly it is safer than alcohol
 
I'll comment on the physician aspect of it all - I think the real concern here will be the emotional stability. Not just with drug abuse in particular, but with any addiction, including those that are legal (e.g. gambling, obsessive exercise for 6 hours a day, etc). People start behaving that way generally because of stress/depression, though of course family history is important. So I guess my first concern would be with whether this physician/medical student would totally snap under the stress of his or her career and education. Also, one thing to consider here is also ethics. When you are a drug abuser, you're a criminal. It takes a good amount of effort to obtain drugs, especially those like heroin and cocaine, so it's not really one of those things you just kinda "fall into" - you have to be actively seeking those things out. Then it's not uncommon to commit other crimes in order to fuel the addiction - stealing (whether on a large scale such as robbing strangers or just stealing money from parents/friends), etc, and ethics comes into play here again.

However, I think this might be a valuable experience if the addiction had been truly overcome, as this type of person might be great at relating to patients with the same problem. If you have battled with depression or an eating disorder, for example, you will be able to empathize and support the patient better than a physician who hasn't, even if your levels of clinical knowledge are the same. However, the problem with drug addiction is that it's not something you could ever mention (mentioning your own history with something like depression to a patient can also be questionable behaviour, but it's not illegal or anything). Also, I would wonder if a physician who used to be a drug addict would be able to resist the temptation when faced with a patient who could procure him some goodies. It's funny you bring this up now, because I was talking with my social worker today and cracked some jokes about whether she knows where to get some shrooms, and she was like "You know, I'm sure most of my clients would easily find you any drug you wanted in a second." Also, realize that a physician has access to some very strong drugs and could easily take advantage of it if s/he were willing to work around the system a bit.

Sorry, just some not-so-well-phrased ramblings.:laugh:
 
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I never get cravings for the drug, it is just usually offered to me at least a few times a year

Have you considered getting some new friends? If you really have no cravings you're running a risk of falling back into the old behavior patterns by taking it when it's offered and 'probably won't interfere' with life at the time.

I have some significant experience, but not as a user. In my former career I was a corrections deputy. I watched the downward spiral of many repeat customers. They lost friends, families, and ultimately their records (often a mix of DUI, Domestic Assault, Theft, and Fail to appear/comply) greatly hindered them in pursuit of a job that they could hold down and actually make ends meet.
Does every drug user end up that way? Maybe not. Here in Meth-ville USA the percentace of repeat offenders that I saw actually break the cycle was incredibly bleak. Some customers were the stereotype "druggie", but a decent minority were the everyday nice soccer-moms and dads of middle class America who thought they could handle themselves.

I'm not judging you and I hope that you get clean and stay clean. Your experiences with substance abuse could be used to help others someday. But if you were my Mom's Dr and I knew that you were using, I would fire you and find a new physician. Regardless of whether you were sober at the clinic or on rounds or whatever.
 
Hi Fakemember-
I see why you're so surreptitious about your past considering that the responses like jochi's are so common. There is A LOT of ignorance about addiction out there. It's not something to share with everyone. But there are people within the medical field who understand on a more human level what addiction is about. I, personally, have never abused "harder" drugs, but I do understand the challenges of addiction/how hard it is to stay clean. As a patient, I would have no problem with a doctor who has had a problem with drug abuse in the past. I probably wouldn't feel comfortable if my doc was tweaking or anything. Doctors are just as susceptible to drug abuse as anyone else. We're all human and we all have different biochemistries / things we need to do to make ourselves feel normal. Good luck with the med school endeavors and good luck finding peace with your internal struggles. It would be great to have more docs who understand addiction from an inside perspective.
 
The fact of the matter is, there are physicians that DO have a history of drug abuse, and continue to abuse drugs. Whether your stance is for it or against it, I have personally known some of these physicians, and they are able to (at varying degrees) separate this portion of their life from the work place. Common drugs abused seem to be Vicodin, uppers, nootropic drugs, and muscle relaxants. Alcohol is even more common than all of these, and in mayn cases, more dangerous.

Yes, I would be fine with a physician who does participate in recreational use of drugs. It honestly doesn't bother me all that much.
 
Hi Fakemember-
I see why you're so surreptitious about your past considering that the responses like jochi's are so common.
I actually have had a large level of exposure to addiction (please allow me to spare the details), so while you may disagree with my take on this, this is not a response from someone who's been sheltered from this type of experiences.
 
Also, one thing to consider here is also ethics. When you are a drug abuser, you're a criminal. It takes a good amount of effort to obtain drugs, especially those like heroin and cocaine, so it's not really one of those things you just kinda "fall into" - you have to be actively seeking those things out.

I'll just say that this isn't neccessarily true. Yes if all your friends are pre-meds it's pretty hard to obtain hard drugs, but you'd be surprised at the # of times I've been offered cocaine by friends/acquaintances (and for the record, turned down and/or tried to get them not to do coke anymore). Well, ok it was only like 3 times, but still, it was by 2 different friends. And neither of them were terrible people (one of them has been an English teacher in Korea for a few years now). Coke is a lot more popular than it used to be btw (which is a bad thing), since apparently prices have come down to where regular people can afford it (whereas it used to be so prohibitively expensive it wasn't even an option for most people).

Anyways, if you do have a drug problem though, I would stay away from friends who are partiers...if you're being offered coke all the time you probably have too many party animal friends.

And thankfully so far none of my own friends have actually let their drug use spiral out of control, but I do know people who weren't as lucky. In fact, one of the people who offered me had an ex who ended up in jail for a DUI and ended up in rehab quite a few times...and their college career ended up pretty screwed up. And the other person who offered me is currently dropped out of college after 5 years (this wasn't included in the spiraling out because he was never a particularly good student so I don't think it was neccessarily the cocaine lol). But there's people who ended up much worse off that I know of...the previously mentioned friend who dropped out had a friend (whom I've met, this isn't one of those vague stories) whose twin brother ended up being murdered because of a drug robbery (in a lot of cities most of the murders are drug related actually).

Point is, it's not that hard to be sucked into the drug world, but it's also definitely not good to stay there...so it's best if you stay the hell away from people who offer you if you've had a problem before. And for the record, I'm not all that comfortable with my doctor being a cokehead, functional or not. For one thing coke affects your personality over time and not for the better...a long-term user threw a steel mallet [rubber coated, but still] at my friend's face while I was standing next to him (luckily only the handle part hit him)...apparently he was pissed off and meant to throw the mallet at the wall next to my friend (or so he says) but either way, coke doesn't help your personality. On top of which, I don't really know any cokeheads who are at the top of the game in their profession...sure, some people get by, but that's not exactly what I'm looking for in a doctor.

I'm not even all that uptight. If my doctor wants to smoke weed a few times a month when they're at home, I wouldn't mind. But I just don't see a coke-addicted doctor as being a particularly good doctor. It might not make you quite as megalomaniac as Scarface, but it definitely doesn't help.
 
I never get cravings for the drug, it is just usually offered to me at least a few times a year, and if it doesn't interfere with what is going on in my life I choose to do it.
BTW, just figured I'd state the obvious - keep in mind the possible legal consequences, because if you ever get caught (even if it's your close friend, it doesn't mean you're safe), it'll be bye-bye medical school. It sounds like you no longer have a physical need for this, and since there'd be a HUGE price to pay if something went wrong, if I were you, I'd go cold turkey. A hit is not worth the possibility of losing any chance at your dream career.
 
I really appreciate all of your responses.

As far as finding new friends...I have for the most part. I have a few friends to still do drugs occasionally but they live far away from me so it isn't really an issue. The few times a year I do it are usually with them, so believe me, I am aware of how important it is to keep distant from them.

Also FYI it is SO easy to obtain coke! More people are on it than you think...I just bought a car from a used car dealership and I am 99% positive at least half the employees there were tweaking. The only drug that is truly hard to find is acid...and oh, and pcp.
 
I'll just say that this isn't neccessarily true. Yes if all your friends are pre-meds it's pretty hard to obtain hard drugs, but you'd be surprised at the # of times I've been offered cocaine by friends/acquaintances (and for the record, turned down and/or tried to get them not to do coke anymore). Well, ok it was only like 3 times, but still, it was by 2 different friends. And neither of them were terrible people (one of them has been an English teacher in Korea for a few years now). Coke is a lot more popular than it used to be btw (which is a bad thing), since apparently prices have come down to where regular people can afford it (whereas it used to be so prohibitively expensive it wasn't even an option for most people).
I've only been offered weed lots. People have mentioned using hard drugs, but I've never been offered them, probably due to the lack of excitement I convey in regards to this stuff (with a alcoholic grandfather who died in jail and other family members who've suffered from addictions, I'm not about to take chances). I think all of us will have at least one friend who either is a serious user or even a dealer of the stuff, but not all of us will know. I was pretty blown away recently when I found out that a good friend is a dealer. I'd never report her, as she comes from a disadvantaged background and this is what put her through school, but it definitely made me feel very uncomfortable, as I fully realize that she's making an active contribution to ruining someone's life.
 
BTW, just figured I'd state the obvious - keep in mind the possible legal consequences, because if you ever get caught (even if it's your close friend, it doesn't mean you're safe), it'll be bye-bye medical school. It sounds like you no longer have a physical need for this, and since there'd be a HUGE price to pay if something went wrong, if I were you, I'd go cold turkey. A hit is not worth the possibility of losing any chance at your dream career.


actually I recently began considering this issue and decided that I wont be doing ANY illegal substances (not even weed) in the near future. It really isn't worth the risk...The last time I did anything illegal (including weed) was December...so I've been in the clear for a while
 
I actually have had a large level of exposure to addiction (please allow me to spare the details), so while you may disagree with my take on this, this is not a response from someone who's been sheltered from this type of experiences.

You sure fooled me.

When you are a drug abuser, you're a criminal. It takes a good amount of effort to obtain drugs, especially those like heroin and cocaine, so it's not really one of those things you just kinda "fall into" - you have to be actively seeking those things out. Then it's not uncommon to commit other crimes in order to fuel the addiction - stealing (whether on a large scale such as robbing strangers or just stealing money from parents/friends), etc, and ethics comes into play here again.

I had a serious visceral reaction to this comment. Not all drug abusers are criminals. [First off, not all drug abusers are drug dependent (i.e. addicts), but that's another issue.] So my main gripe is that you call drug abusers "criminals" and basically question their moral character, as if moral character is exclusively tied to adherence to the law. It actually doesn't take a "good amount of effort to obtain drugs" for many people. Some people live in communities where certain drugs are prevalent, have family members/friends who use, and have not had to "actively seek" out anything. So no, not all drug users must lie, steal, and kill for their next fix. And drug addiction is certainly not limited to street drugs (see your closest anesthesiology department). In fact, you don't even need to go to the anesthesiology dept, just check out the psychiatry offices that prescribe loads of mood stabilizers and the like (to people who can afford to see a psychiatrist who won't question their moral character). Sure, all those substances are "legal", but they're being used for the same purpose the heroin addict is using his drug - as a regulator. Anyway, I won't get more detailed then that, but I guess I mainly think it's ignorant to assign moral judgment to people based on such an arbitrary classification as illegal drug addiction.
 
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I mainly think it's ignorant to assign moral judgment to people based on such an arbitrary classification as illegal drug addiction.
"Criminal" is not a moral judgment, it's a pretty clear-cut term that is assigned on the basis of legal standards.
 
In fact, you don't even need to go to the anesthesiology dept, just check out the psychiatry offices that prescribe loads of mood stabilizers and the like (to people who can afford to see a psychiatrist who won't question their moral character).
It's not an issue of the psychiatrist questioning their moral character. If the psychiatrist's behaviour creates an addiction, s/he is legally responsible for stopping it. So as someone who knowingly prescribes drugs to someone who appears to be abusing them, you will be held liable.
 
Also FYI it is SO easy to obtain coke! More people are on it than you think...I just bought a car from a used car dealership and I am 99% positive at least half the employees there were tweaking. The only drug that is truly hard to find is acid...and oh, and pcp.

Heh, while I agree that it's fairly easy (especially when you have friends who do coke) I think you might be reading a little bit into other people based on your own experiences with people who were on coke. Used car dealership employees are just aggressive and hyper people by default :laugh: although...the drug use would also explain how shady they are so you might actually have a point...lol.

Seriously though, probably not quite that many people on coke everywhere, but it's definitely true that you can find people who do coke very easily...just walk into any nightclub any day of the week and a good portion of the people will probably have access to cocaine if they don't actually have some on them. And if you're on a college campus it's not hard to obtain either...there's usually at least a few dealers, even on small campuses.
 
This may be an interesting read for some. This is a disciplinary case from the College of Physicians and Surgeons in Ontario, and I know there are more, I just have to look more in the database.

Dr. Kevin Patrick White
London

Allegations
It was alleged that Dr. White committed an act of professional misconduct, in that he engaged in conduct or an act relevant to the practice of medicine that, having regard to all the circumstances, would reasonably be regarded by members as disgraceful, dishonourable or unprofessional.
It was also alleged that Dr. White is incompetent, in that he displayed in his professional care of patients, a lack of knowledge, skill or judgment or disregard for the welfare of patients, of a nature or to an extent that demonstrates that he is unfit to continue to practise or that his practice should be restricted.

Response to the Allegations
Dr. White admitted to the allegations and the case proceeded on the basis of an Agreed Statement of Facts.

Evidence
The Agreed Statement of Facts established that Dr. White is a physician specializing in rheumatology. He obtained a certificate of independent practice in Ontario in July 1991. Dr. White has no formal training in addiction medicine.
Dr. White first met Patient A in August 2001, while she was working for an escort service. He saw her as a professional escort on numerous occasions between August 2001 and January 2002, during which time he paid her for engaging in sexual acts with him. She was not his patient at this time.
During several of these sexual encounters, Dr. White took pornographic photographs of Patient A performing fellatio on him. Patient A consented, on the condition that the pictures would not identify her (that is, her face would not be shown).
In January 2002, Dr. White employed Patient A as his assistant at the hospital.
Dr. White's clinical notes for Patient A begin on September 4, 2002. The first OHIP billing is December 7, 2002. However, Dr. White began writing prescriptions for Patient A in December 2001.
Between January and April 2003, while Patient A was Dr. White's patient and his employee, Dr. White used the hospital's computer information services to e-mail the pornographic photographs he had taken of her performing oral sex on him, together with accompanying pornographic stories he had written, to different pornographic websites. The photographs and stories were, at his request, posted on the internet. Dr. White told Patient A that he had posted some non-identifying photos of her on the Internet. In fact, Patient A was identifiable in many of the photographs.
On May 28, 2003, after the hospital discovered that Dr. White had used its computer information services to view, upload and download pornographic materials, Dr. White resigned his privileges.
Between September 2002 and February 2004, Dr. White provided narcotics to Patient A knowing that she had a severe opioid addiction. Dr. White saw the patient daily and administered opiates to her, without maintaining proper medical records. In this way, Dr. White enabled the patient's addiction to continue longer than it might have under professional guidance.
Dr. White wrote only five clinical notes during the period when he was seeing the patient at least twice a week. Between December 7, 2002, and May 17, 2003, Dr. White billed OHIP for 140 services totalling $4,687.45. Although the last entry in Dr. White's clinical notes and last OHIP billing for Patient A is in May 2003, Dr. White continued to prescribe opiates for Patient A in February 2004, when he visited her at her home three times a day to inject her with Lorazepam.
Finding
The Committee made the finding that Dr. White committed an act of professional misconduct, in that he engaged in conduct or an act relevant to the practice of medicine that, having regard to all the circumstances, would reasonably be regarded by members as disgraceful, dishonourable or unprofessional.
The Discipline Committee further found that Dr. White is incompetent, in that he displayed in his professional care of patients, a lack of knowledge, skill or judgment or disregard for the welfare of patients, of a nature or to an extent that demonstrates that he is unfit to continue to practise or that his practice should be restricted.
Reasons for Penalty
Dr. White admitted in his testimony that he put his own desires ahead of his patient's. He re-victimized her when he put her face on the pornographic websites on the Internet without her permission.
Dr. White prescribed vast amounts of narcotics while this patient was
in treatment for her drug addiction. His conduct was indefensible and egregious. He put this patient at considerable risk and prolonged her drug addiction.

The Committee believes that Dr. White is genuinely remorseful. After he resigned his position at the hospital, he attended a treatment centre in Texas. Since a specialist is still actively treating Dr. White for his addiction problems, the specialist's opinion as to whether Dr. White was ready to practise medicine became very important to the Committee. The specialist was clearly not ready to give any time frame as to when Dr. White would be able to return to the practise of medicine.
The Committee took into account the interests of Dr. White in receiving a just and reasonable penalty and his potential rehabilitation. On the other hand, in determining an appropriate penalty in this case, the Committee concluded that the protection of the public, deterrence, and the maintenance of public confidence in the profession were the overriding considerations.
Penalty
The Discipline Committee directed that:
  1. <LI class=articlebody>The Registrar revoke Dr. White's certificate of registration, such revocation to take effect immediately. <LI class=articlebody>Dr. White attend before the panel to be reprimanded, with the fact of the reprimand to be recorded on the register.
  2. Dr. White pay costs to the College in the amount of $2,500.
 
You sure fooled me.
In fact, you don't even need to go to the anesthesiology dept, just check out the psychiatry offices that prescribe loads of mood stabilizers and the like (to people who can afford to see a psychiatrist who won't question their moral character). Sure, all those substances are "legal", but they're being used for the same purpose the heroin addict is using his drug - as a regulator.

I agree with all your posts so far, but in what I quoted above it sounds like your comparing people that take mood stabilizers to heroin addicts....psychiatriac problems aren't really the same....sorry not trying to sound rude..i think I'm just not understanding your point maybe
 
This is actuallly a better case, since it ONLY deals with the issue of careless prescription of drugs to patients, as opposed to the previous one, where there is also an issue of sexual inappropriatness.


Dr. Leslie F. Smoling
Windsor

The Allegations
This case was heard by the Discipline Committee in August and September 1993. It was alleged that Dr. Leslie Smoling failed to maintain the standard of practice of the profession in his dealings with 29 patients between November 1990 and June 1992, and that he was also guilty of incompetence. He pleaded not guilty to both charges.
Specifically, it was alleged that he prescribed large and inappropriate quantities of controlled drugs to the patients without providing any significant counselling, and by doing so put them at risk of overdosing and addiction. It was also alleged that in doing so he exposed them to potentially life-threatening medical care, that he failed to maintain proper patient records and documentation regarding the prescriptions in question and that he failed to maintain an acceptable standard of patient management.
The Case for the Prosecution
All of the 29 patients in question had been admitted one or more times to the Emergency Departments of Windsor hospitals. The overwhelming majority of admissions were for drug overdoses of patients in their 20s or 30s. All patients received numerous prescriptions for controlled drugs and frequently there was no explanation or justification for their prescription, nor of the amount nor strength of the drug. Many of the drugs were potentially addictive. There was frequently no record of a physical examination having been carried out after the initial visit of the patient.

Counsel for the College argued that Dr. Smoling's records revealed a surprising number of his patients were addicted to drugs and these records gave very little information concerning the patients' history, physical findings or clinical course. Dr. Smoling had no understanding of the reasons why detailed records such as the patient's history should be kept. It was submitted that Dr. Smoling's records demonstrated that his patients wanted drugs and he showed no restraint in prescribing them. It was suggested that patients came to him as a source of drugs because he asked no questions and was compliant.
The Case for the Defence
Dr. Smoling testified regarding each of the 29 patients, saying that he did not always receive copies of reports from Emergency Departments when his patients were brought in as a result of overdose. He said he always advised his patients not to take more medication than was prescribed and to avoid using alcohol while taking the drug. He said it was not his practice to note why he prescribed a medicine, and that he was not aware that a number of his patients had been seeing another doctor and had been taking other medications. He denied that a significant proportion of his 3000 patients were coming to him for drugs.

Counsel for Dr. Smoling argued that he could tell the diagnosis and was able to follow his patients from the drugs listed in his notes, that he would switch drugs as necessary based on side effects and that he would note the occurrence and date of overdoses as well as information derived from third parties. Counsel further argued that a possible explanation for the high number of overdoses in his patients was that 75 percent of Dr. Smoling's patients were on welfare and that a high proportion were immigrants, that many of the 29 patients in question were seeing other doctors at the same time as they were seeing Dr. Smoling and that 11 of the 29 took alcohol and/or street drugs, which played a role in their overdose.
The Decision
The Committee found Dr. Smoling guilty of professional misconduct in that he failed to maintain the standard of practice of the profession with respect to the 29 patients in question. The Committee also found him guilty of incompetence in respect of these patients in that he displayed a lack of knowledge, skill or judgement and a disregard for their welfare such that he is unfit to continue in the practice of medicine.

The Penalty
The Committee concluded that the only fit penalty in this case was a revocation of Dr. Smoling's certificate of registration.
 
Who cares? I wouldn't care if my physician was on drugs or had abused them in the past if they can perform alright. What kind of question is this? Do you think a patient is going to come in and say "Ok, Doc. Tell me, have you done cocaine?" If they did, I hope my physician wouldn't say "Oh, yeah, I used to abuse it all the time" or "yep, still on it. Good stuff." I mean this question is LAME. I think you are full of S**t anyway. You sound like a liberal if any of this is really true and liberalism = not cool.
 
I wouldn't care if my physician had drug problems in the past. I WOULD care if I found out they were still regularly doing drugs. Obviously if I don't know and it doesn't affect their function, then I don't know. But if I found out for some reason, that would probably make me find a new physician. (I wouldn't switch physicians if I believed the physician was sincerely trying to quit)
 
Who cares? I wouldn't care if my physician was on drugs or had abused them in the past if they can perform alright. What kind of question is this? Do you think a patient is going to come in and say "Ok, Doc. Tell me, have you done cocaine?" If they did, I hope my physician wouldn't say "Oh, yeah, I used to abuse it all the time" or "yep, still on it. Good stuff." I mean this question is LAME. I think you are full of S**t anyway. You sound like a liberal if any of this is really true and liberalism = not cool.

Wow DDS. Way to throw in politics in something COMPLETELY unrelated. How the hell does it sound liberal to you? I'll have you know, I'm as liberal as liberal can be, and I can care less as to whether or not my doc doses.
 
I have done pretty much every drug you can name and had a serious problem with cocaine from age 16-20. I have continued to use cocaine about once or twice a year since then, and I usually binge for at least 24-48hrs when I do it. I never get cravings for the drug, it is just usually offered to me at least a few times a year, and if it doesn't interfere with what is going on in my life I choose to do it.

This is the paragraph that concerns me...

While I could accept a physician that has conquered his/her addictions, you clearly haven't. A 24-48 hour binge is going to encompass some important times in the next few years... are you going to show up to your rotations during this time, what about during your internship and residency. Med school and residency will be the most stressful times of your life, do you think this will make you more likely to resist?

What are you thinking about when you're on these binges? Or when you're coming out of them? Do you honestly trust yourself to make calculated decisions regarding the wellbeing of others?
 
DDSbound's statement is based on the assumption that drugs will have no affect on performance. He says "if they can perform alright." Well if they can do the procedure or whatever correctly then who cares about their background.
This all is moot though if you take into account the fact that drugs more often than not affect a persons judgement thus affecting performance. Last thing I wanna hear is my surgeon saying "haha sorry ima little high right now"
 
This is all a bit bizarre to me. I know people that are heavily involved in drug use and will not seek outside help for their addictions. I also know who to ask if I wanted to get marijuana or some other street drug. It is heavily prevalent in University City (Philadelphia). I would also say my school has a problem with prescription addiction (Adderall). To say that I could not get what I wanted within a few hours is false. That being said, I think all aspiring and practicing physicians should have the moral integrity to stay away from illegal drugs that can hinder performance. If you abused drugs and have been clean through your professional years the line becomes hard to define of whether or not to trust the physician's ability. But, overall, I feel its unfair for a patient to have a physician that has a drug abuse problem.
 
DDSbound's statement is based on the assumption that drugs will have no affect on performance. He says "if they can perform alright." Well if they can do the procedure or whatever correctly then who cares about their background.
This all is moot though if you take into account the fact that drugs more often than not affect a persons judgement thus affecting performance. Last thing I wanna hear is my surgeon saying "haha sorry ima little high right now"

Bingo. You don't want your surgeon jitter(ier) than usual because of last night's nose-candy party. Personally, the lesser drugs like maryjane, I wouldn't mind my physician using, even on a somewhat regular basis.
 
I would not have a problem with a doctor that had abused drugs in their younger years but addiction is not something that goes away. It is a disease that sticks with you your entire life, kinda like herpes. Like the earlier poster said, your binges are a problem. You were an addict and now you are a recovering addict so why binge. Sorry to lecture a little bit with stuff Im sure you already know but the majority of these posts have been treating the issue a little too lightly compared to what the dual poll reflects.
 
I usually abstain (no pun intended) from commenting on these kinds of threads. Of all of the subjects debated on SDN, I find the ones about drug use to be the least informed opinions. The debates often remind me of my when the priests/brothers would talk to us about sex when we were young. I'm delighted to see when folks have had some firsthand experience about what they are speaking about here, though. That's nice to see.

I don't take the view that everyone who has used drugs is a drug abuser, and I don't play the game of making any distinctions (other than legal) about alcohol. The reason it's given a pass in places like these is because more premeds use alcohol than any other drug. And the legality, as most premeds are toe-the-line types. But the typical premed personality is actually a minority in both college and the world in general.

I have friends that have used cocaine now and again, and while I don't like it, I actually am more worried about my friends who smoke cigarettes. You can have a heart attack from doing a few lines of blow, but it's much more rare than getting lung cancer from cigggies.
I have done pretty much every drug you can name and had a serious problem with cocaine from age 16-20. I have continued to use cocaine about once or twice a year since then, and I usually binge for at least 24-48hrs when I do it.
While I think experimenting with drugs, right or wrong, is part of the college experience for lots of folks, this particular line troubles me. Folks doing a few lines in a club is not uncommon in some places (though not advised). I don't think "drug addict" because someone does bumps now and then.

24-48 hour benders are a cause for worry. I'm not focusing on the drug here, but the behavior. Whether it's coke, crank or alcohol, doing it for 48 hours straight is indicative that this is not recreational use. It's a sign that you are not right with the stuff and shouldn't do it at all.

Kick the stuff entirely and any behaviors that get you to use it, whether it's alcohol, certain friends, or certain bars. While lots of SDN types will undoubtedly worry about your abilities as a physician, if you get past this, I think it will make you a better one.

The reason many people (I'm excluding premeds here) get irritated by their doctors is because they feel they're talking out of their a$$. Having a doctor who has no exposure to drugs or your lifestyle lecture you about it smacks of pretentious bull$hit. You'll know better and will be able to treat this subset of patients better.

Get past this.
 
As a patient, I would have no problem with a doctor who has had a problem with drug abuse in the past. I probably wouldn't feel comfortable if my doc was tweaking or anything. Doctors are just as susceptible to drug abuse as anyone else. We're all human and we all have different biochemistries / things we need to do to make ourselves feel normal. Good luck with the med school endeavors and good luck finding peace with your internal struggles. It would be great to have more docs who understand addiction from an inside perspective.

I don't hold people's history against them, but consider it in context; what's more important to me is what that person is doing now and what his or her current set of commitments are. I see what you are saying about how physicians with empathy towards different struggles can be beneficial to patient care. However, there is a thin line between understanding human struggles and being so sympathetic as to be enabling an addiction, if only his own. Addiction, in my experience, is an ugly and destructive spiral of irresponsibility that not only impacts the person addicted, but also the people around him or her, often to significant detriment. If a physician is actively abusing drugs, it undoubtedly compromises his or her ability to perform the job on several levels, not necessarily limited to alterations in cognitive and motor function related to the drug use itself.

Therefore, understanding addiction is one thing, but actively abusing without plans to get treatment is quite another. It looks like the OP is trying to justify his continuing addiction and at least lessen the impact of his addiction on his own psyche. Honestly, it is not okay by any measure to continue abusing drugs and go into healthcare. There is a significant problem of drug addiction in that area already. I strongly suggest the OP address his or her drug addictions now. It might seem manageable now, but that's just an illusion; it's a house of cards.
 
If you possess, you're violating a law, and hence, are a criminal.
Yes. And if you had a beer in your hand as a college sophomore, you are a criminal too.

If you really want to call folks "criminals" because they have broken the law, you're going to have to use that brush to paint 99% of society. And maybe even 80% of chemistry club.
 
I have a problem with doctors that use drugs and I would not go to one that did. Abusing drugs, whether it's an excess of alcohol, hard core drugs or prescription drugs taken inappropriately shows a level of immaturity towards medicine and controlled substances that I just don't want in my doctor.

It's a slippery slope, despite the belief "I'm not addicted and I can stop if I want to." Do you make them yourself?...how do you know what you're getting? What about drug testing? Is a brief moment of "fun" worth risking your career or license? What happens when you've had that one too many, or get something laced with something a bit stronger? What happens if suddenly you find you can't stop? Drug use is a bit like russian roulette, you're risking a lot and you don't really know for sure what the outcome is...there's just not a good excuse for doing it. Maybe you think you feel fine afterwards, think you can still do what you've always done...but what about when you're wrong?

To any current or future doctors that like to use drugs...I hope you get caught.
 
And I wonder if there's a bit of hero worship going on here as well. I'm personally more worried about the lifestyle of my kid's school bus driver than I am of his teacher or his pediatrician.
 
I have a problem with doctors that use drugs and I would not go to one that did.
Would you also avoid doctors who smoke? What about doctors who drink? Making a distinction between dangerous illegal drugs and dangerous legal drugs gets to be splitting hairs. And what about obese doctors? Where do you stop the behavioral judgement calls? Just curious.
BluePhoenix said:
To any current or future doctors that like to use drugs...I hope you get caught.
Ah, yes. Not "get help" but "get caught". Very indicative. You remind me of these folks I used to see that carried signs hoping homosexuals die of AIDS.
 
I think I accidentally checked both, that I would and would not want a doctor who had abused drugs... but when I think about it more, it is sort of accurate to how I feel.

I don't think that drugs are really the issue here. Some people can take drugs and function well and even better sometimes than they do without the drugs. On the other hand, some people take drugs and it can severely impair their ability to communicate, operate, observe, pay attention... whatever. I think many other things can impair a person as well... diseases, genetic disorders, hormonal fluctuations, mood swings, bad family life, death of a loved one. A sugeon's child could have just died the day before he is going to operate on you... and so personally if he were impaired by this I wouldn't want him operating on me, however, if he was able to function properly, or even better because it motivated him to save a life, then I wouldn't mind.

So... impairment is really the issue, and I don't believe that drug use or abuse impairs everyone in any way or the same way. Similarly, things other than drugs cause impairment.
 
And I wonder if there's a bit of hero worship going on here as well. I'm personally more worried about the lifestyle of my kid's school bus driver than I am of his teacher or his pediatrician.

Perhaps; it's inevitable at some level, since we are going into medicine. However, what's more compelling to me is that I don't condone addictive activity regardless of the profession. It's never okay. I've worked with people with addictions before and it's impact is just as bad on others as it is on them. I'm not singling out doctors at all. I wouldn't want anybody I work with to be actively abusing. Untreated drug abuse is a blatant act of irresponsibility, and that's not the kind of field I want around me and my family, regardless of the role they are playing in my life.

This doesn't mean that a person can't make mistakes. We are all fallible. But to continue on in blatant disregard... That really can't be good; as I mentioned before, it's a house built with cards. I don't want to be there when it collapses.
 
So... impairment is really the issue, and I don't believe that drug use or abuse impairs everyone in any way or the same way. Similarly, things other than drugs cause impairment.

I'll agree that drug use/abuse affects people differently, the problem with that is, it can affect your judgement and if someone's judgement is affected, they may not even be able to tell if they are fit to perform.
 
I'll agree that drug use/abuse affects people differently, the problem with that is, it can affect your judgement and if someone's judgement is affected, they may not even be able to tell if they are fit to perform.

To add to that, what about the emotional and micro-social implications? People will go to extremes to continue their addiction, often at the cost of their own and others' wellbeing.
 
Bah...this poll doesn't have the option I am looking to vote for. I accidentally voted for the last option:

"I would not be okay with having a physician who has abused drugs."

It's actually not that important to me what the person's history happens to be, although it can be important to examine the history and to consider it in context with everything else. What I care most about in relation to this is what he or she is doing now. The option I actually wanted to vote for was:

"I would not be okay with having a physician who is abusing drugs."

Please consider my vote to reflect that difference. Thanks.
 
Yes. And if you had a beer in your hand as a college sophomore, you are a criminal too.

If you really want to call folks "criminals" because they have broken the law, you're going to have to use that brush to paint 99% of society. And maybe even 80% of chemistry club.

Yes-- and what about people who speed? Who drive recklessly? Who follow in their vehicles too closely and endanger peoples' lives??
This "criminal" business is a slippery slope, too.

To answer the OP's question: I am a pre-med, I don't do the drugs you're asking about, and I haven't before, and probably won't in my future... I love my beautiful body, and I like putting generally good things in it, not things that are harmful.
I would prefer to see a physician (who is there to help me be more healthy) who doesn't generally do overtly un-healthy things to their own body. Similarly, I do not think I would be comfortable with a primary care doctor who was obese or a cigarette smoker. I don't think I would care if they smoked marijuana, but that's probably because I see cigarette smoking as a more harmful/unhealthy behavior. I would expect my doctor to encourage and engender healthful behaviors-- and would stop seeing them if they proceeded to tell me about their personal road rage experience that morning, etc.
 
I have a problem with doctors that use drugs and I would not go to one that did. Abusing drugs, whether it's an excess of alcohol, hard core drugs or prescription drugs taken inappropriately shows a level of immaturity towards medicine and controlled substances that I just don't want in my doctor.

It's a slippery slope, despite the belief "I'm not addicted and I can stop if I want to." Do you make them yourself?...how do you know what you're getting? What about drug testing? Is a brief moment of "fun" worth risking your career or license? What happens when you've had that one too many, or get something laced with something a bit stronger? What happens if suddenly you find you can't stop? Drug use is a bit like russian roulette, you're risking a lot and you don't really know for sure what the outcome is...there's just not a good excuse for doing it. Maybe you think you feel fine afterwards, think you can still do what you've always done...but what about when you're wrong?

To any current or future doctors that like to use drugs...I hope you get caught.

Unfortunately, I've lost too many young people from my life. The reasons for their deaths were: 3 in single car accidents (no drugs or alcohol involved), 1 drowning, 1 to CF, 1 struck by lightning, 1 to cancer, 1 heroin overdose, and 1 shooting (while working in the ER where I worked). Along these lines while working in the ER I saw a lot of young people die for various unfair reasons. To say that doing drugs is like Russian Roulette is sort of true, but isn't doing anything potentially hazardous? If we're talking about odds, then getting in a car is more like Russian Roulette than trying drugs. Or just working as a doctor, you'll put yourself at risk of needle sticks and other infection.

But I do agree with you that doing drugs is definitely not worth losing your license, or going to jail, and clearly nothing is WORTH your life, but you can't avoid everything in life and if people want to do drugs, then they do them, and their risk of death is not any greater than taking a drive or getting on a plane... it's probably MUCH less.

And to what others have said about any addictive behavior being unfavorable... if that addiction does not get in the way of job performance, then I couldn't care less. Lots of people have horrible addictions and it ruins their home and family lives, but they may be able to keep their professional lives in tact and actually excel in their profession. So, it's hard to judge the whole swath of those addicted to drugs when everyone responds to different situations in their own unique way.
 
A&E's intervention is doing a special on speedballing (cocaine and heroin) tonight. It'll shed some light on addiction and why people trail off the normal path of life in terms of drug and alcohol addictions.
 
And to what others have said about any addictive behavior being unfavorable... if that addiction does not get in the way of job performance, then I couldn't care less. Lots of people have horrible addictions and it ruins their home and family lives, but they may be able to keep their professional lives in tact and actually excel in their profession. So, it's hard to judge the whole swath of those addicted to drugs when everyone responds to different situations in their own unique way.

"Functional" addiction is a myth; it's a ticking time bomb just waiting to go off and an unnecessary risk placed on self and others. One has to be out of integrity to be actively addicted and not seek treatment, which, to me, strongly indicates a measure of irresponsbility that has implications that are not necessarily related to the addiction itself. Whether it is visible or not, or whether there is any cognitive and/or motor compromise, or not, it is a proverbial can of worms waiting to be opened. There is impact, even if we are oblivious to it. Our choices and actions are like ripples in a pond.

Again, I am not singling doctors out. For me, this is a priniciple that is not role-dependent.
 
"Functional" addiction is a myth; it's a ticking time bomb just waiting to go off and an unnecessary risk placed on self and others.
I can buy that. But then the issue is not functional additiction vs. messed up addiction but a user and an addict. If someone is an addict, by definition, they can not function? So if someone does drug (or drugs) but it does not interfere with other parts of their life, they are by definition not an addict?
 
You know what? I figure a doctor is a hell of a lot more educated than all of us as to what chemicals he can and cannot put into his body safely. I feel that if a doctor has gone through the extensive training of medical school and residency, he is qualified to make the decision himself.
 
I wouldn't care if my physician had drug problems in the past. I WOULD care if I found out they were still regularly doing drugs. Obviously if I don't know and it doesn't affect their function, then I don't know. But if I found out for some reason, that would probably make me find a new physician. (I wouldn't switch physicians if I believed the physician was sincerely trying to quit)

I agree with this, people deserve a second chance. However, once someone enter the role of physician they should never even consider returning to their old ways.
 
This is the paragraph that concerns me...

While I could accept a physician that has conquered his/her addictions, you clearly haven't. A 24-48 hour binge is going to encompass some important times in the next few years... are you going to show up to your rotations during this time, what about during your internship and residency. Med school and residency will be the most stressful times of your life, do you think this will make you more likely to resist?

What are you thinking about when you're on these binges? Or when you're coming out of them? Do you honestly trust yourself to make calculated decisions regarding the wellbeing of others?

I mentioned earlier that I have decided not to do it anymore if for no other reason than not wanting to get in trouble...that being said; I chose NOT to do it many times when I knew it just wasn't a good time- Like if I had a lot to do with school or family. When I DID choose to binge I was usually out of town for the weekend with a friend or two...so yes, I did make my decisions regarding the wellbeing of others, and will continue to do so.

thanks for the input
 
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