check077

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:oops: I should have done this years ago:
(Prefer MD path but will also consider DO)​

Community college classes: (Graduated with 3.42 cgpa); * = Updated
*1997 Fall: Biology I Lab - A (1 credit)
*1997 Fall: Biology I - A (3 credits)
*1998 Spring: Elementary Algebra -C (3 credits)
*1998 Spring: Biology II Lab - B (3 credits)
*1998 Spring: Biology II - B (3 credits)
*1998 Summer: Intermediate Algebra -C (3 credits)​

1998 Fall: College Algebra - A (3 credits)
1998 Fall: Physical Science Survey I Lab – NC (no credit)
1998 Fall: Physical Science Survey I – B (3 credits)
1999 Spring: Microbiology Lab - A (1 credit)
1999 Spring: Microbiology – A (3 credits)
1999 Spring: Trigonometry – B (3 credits)
1999 Summer: Introduction to Organic BioChemistry Lab – A (1 credit)
1999 Summer: Introduction to Organic BioChemistry – A (3 credits)​

* indicates updated courses, previously omitted​



Later, I went completed Bachelors; BS in Bus. Admin. W/ cgpa: 3.15


I completed an MBA (general business) with 3.5 gpa (Got a C+ in Managerial Finance). @ same Private College in May 2004​


HBCU (State School): Complete MPA (professional accountancy) with a 3.091 (grad gpa) with 2.75 ugpa for prerequistes = 3.08 cumulative accounting gpa. I'm a URM which in part explains the HBCU degree. Recently completed in May 2010


I took two educational graduate degree courses: received an A and B – before completing MPA which brought up cgpa for degree to a 3.15 gpa.​


Currently, I was just been accepted to MAT to complete two additional graduate classes for 5 year teaching license--completion not necessary for permanent license. Presently, I'm studying for the CPA exam as well. I hate starting something and not finishing it.​


However, my grades are not stellar because I had a great deal of anxiety that I managed through self-treatment and in which one session with a social worker helped me to get over it.​


I know now to just be productive and stay on time and maintain consistency with that productivity to get those A's. If I could have gotten help with my issues a while ago, I would have had the confidence to pursue something as rigorous as medical school earlier. I've just turned 33 years old, so I'm no spring chicken.​


SGPA: 2.62
cGPA for all college work: 3.21


I have about 238 college credits at this point. Is there any hope for me?​

Mississippi doesn't have a formal post-baccaulaureate program, but it does have a daytime SMP, which will present obstacles for me to attend.​

I've figured out how to get A's now, so that helps; for me, this means doing the work early and completing whatever is thrown at me early. Also, it means getting feedback early. My procrastination caused by self-doubt and anxiety (according to Social Worker) is what caused this, for which I concur.​
 
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BestDoctorEver

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:oops: I should have done this years ago:

(Prefer MD path but will also consider DO)​

Community college classes: (Graduated with 3.42 cgpa); * = Updated
*1997 Fall: Biology I Lab - A (1 credit)
*1997 Fall: Biology I - A (3 credits)
*1998 Spring: Elementary Algebra -C (3 credits)
*1998 Spring: Biology II Lab - B (3 credits)
*1998 Spring: Biology II - B (3 credits)
*1998 Summer: Intermediate Algebra -C (3 credits)​

1998 Fall: College Algebra - A (3 credits)
1998 Fall: Physical Science Survey I Lab – NC (no credit)
1998 Fall: Physical Science Survey I – B (3 credits)
1999 Spring: Microbiology Lab - A (1 credit)
1999 Spring: Microbiology – A (3 credits)
1999 Spring: Trigonometry – B (3 credits)
1999 Summer: Introduction to Organic BioChemistry Lab – A (1 credit)
1999 Summer: Introduction to Organic BioChemistry – A (3 credits)​

* indicates updated courses, previously omitted​



Later, I went completed Bachelors; BS in Bus. Admin. W/ cgpa: 3.15


I completed an MBA (general business) with 3.5 gpa (Got a C+ in Managerial Finance). @ same Private College​


HBCU (State School): Complete MPA (professional accountancy) with a 3.091 (grad gpa) with 2.75 ugpa for prerequistes = 3.08 cumulative accounting gpa. I'm a URM which in part explains the HBCU degree.​


I took two educational graduate degree courses: received an A and B – before completing MPA which brought up cgpa for degree to a 3.15 gpa.​


Currently, I was just been accepted to MAT to complete two additional graduate classes for 5 year teaching license--completion not necessary for permanent license. Presently, I'm studying for the CPA exam as well. I hate starting something and not finishing it.​


However, my grades are not stellar because I had a great deal of anxiety that I managed through self-treatment and in which one session with a social worker helped me to get over it.​


I know now to just be productive and stay on time and maintain consistency with that productivity to get those A's. If I could have gotten help with my issues a while ago, I would have had the confidence to pursue something as rigorous as medical school earlier. I've just turned 33 years old, so I'm no spring chicken.​


SGPA: 2.62
cGPA for all college work: 3.21


I have about 238 college credits at this point. Is there any hope for me?​

Mississippi doesn't have a formal post-baccaulaureate program, but it does have a daytime SMP, which will present obstacles for me to attend.​


I've figured out how to get A's now, so that helps; for me, this means doing the work early and completing whatever is thrown at me early. Also, it means getting feedback early. My procrastination caused by self-doubt and anxiety (according to Social Worker) is what caused this, for which I concur.​
Your sGPA is what going to hold you down. My advice to you is retake science classes that you had a grade of C or lower to bring your sGPA to 3.0+ , then take the MCAT. A 28+ MCAT score will give you a decent chance at DO if you apply early and broadly.
 
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check077

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I definitely need to retake those classes over with a C or lower if DO is a path. Therefore, I'm planning on enrolling in a less formal route to a Post-Bacc program, since Mississippi does not have a formal program.

However, if I were to be competitive for the MD, what should I do to increase my prospects?
 

TriagePreMed

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However, if I were to be competitive for the MD, what should I do to increase my prospects?
You are in a very tough spot for that for a couple of reasons:

1. Even though the 3.2 is excusable for people that are going to school later on in life, the 2.6 is very hard to swallow for most universities.
2. Trying to off-set a 2.6 is extremely hard when you have 230+ units to your name. True, some of those must be non-science, but which even at 100 units, it would be hard to offset.

What I suggest you do if MD is truly what you want is to find a way to bring that sGPA up to a 3.0. Even then it will be frowned upon at first, but it may be excused because you're non-trad. I think applying with under a 3.0 in science in this day and age is unwise. I think the cGPA won't be a problem even if it only increases .1 because your recent trend will be from science courses.

Inserting my personal thoughts into this is that it wouldn't be a wise investment to shoot for the MD because of the amount of time and money it will take to offset it. Personally, I'd focus on shooting for DO with grade replacement.

Doing well on the MCAT is also essential.
 
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check077

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Originally Posted by check077
Community college classes: (Graduated with 3.42 cgpa); * = Updated
*1997 Fall: Biology I Lab - A (1 credit)
*1997 Fall: Biology I - A (3 credits)
*1998 Spring: Elementary Algebra -C (3 credits)
*1998 Spring: Biology II Lab - B (3 credits)
*1998 Spring: Biology II - B (3 credits)
*1998 Summer: Intermediate Algebra -C (3 credits)

1998 Fall: College Algebra - A (3 credits)
1998 Fall: Physical Science Survey I Lab – NC (no credit)
1998 Fall: Physical Science Survey I – B (3 credits)
1999 Spring: Microbiology Lab - A (1 credit)
1999 Spring: Microbiology – A (3 credits)
1999 Spring: Trigonometry – B (3 credits)
1999 Summer: Introduction to Organic BioChemistry Lab – A (1 credit)
1999 Summer: Introduction to Organic BioChemistry – A (3 credits)

* indicates updated courses, previously omitted

Private College: (Declared Major as Comp. Sci. but, later, changed in Bus. Admin.)
1999 Fall: Calculus with Analytic Geometry – F (3 credits)
2000 Spring: Calculus with Analytic Geometry – D (3 credits)
2000 Fall: Elementary Statistics – B (3 credits)
2001 Spring: Finite Mathematics –B (3 credits)
Graduated with 3.15 after slow start (2 C's in the mist of courses as well)

I know the two C's, the F, and D will trash my sgpa but will a combination post-baccalaureate and SMP help.


One person recommended that I enroll at local 4 year university and do One year of full time course work (30+ credit) with mostly science courses.

Afterwards, the recommendation is that I enroll in an SMP and do really well. Now, is this feasible to do if I'm working fulltime (40 hours a week)? Goal for MD path = 2 years? versus goal for DO = 6 months

I mostly got low scores in the math courses versus pure science. I've gotten better with math since then through self-teaching.


Originally Posted by check077
Community college classes: (Graduated with 3.42 cgpa); * = Updated
*1997 Fall: Biology I Lab - A (1 credit)
*1997 Fall: Biology I - A (3 credits)
*1998 Spring: Elementary Algebra -C (3 credits)
*1998 Spring: Biology II Lab - B (3 credits)
*1998 Spring: Biology II - B (3 credits)
*1998 Summer: Intermediate Algebra -C (3 credits)

1998 Fall: College Algebra - A (3 credits)
1998 Fall: Physical Science Survey I Lab – NC (no credit)
1998 Fall: Physical Science Survey I – B (3 credits)
1999 Spring: Microbiology Lab - A (1 credit)
1999 Spring: Microbiology – A (3 credits)
1999 Spring: Trigonometry – B (3 credits)
1999 Summer: Introduction to Organic BioChemistry Lab – A (1 credit)
1999 Summer: Introduction to Organic BioChemistry – A (3 credits)

* indicates updated courses, previously omitted

Private College: (Declared Major as Comp. Sci. but, later, changed in Bus. Admin.)
1999 Fall: Calculus with Analytic Geometry – F (3 credits)
2000 Spring: Calculus with Analytic Geometry – D (3 credits)
2000 Fall: Elementary Statistics – B (3 credits)
2001 Spring: Finite Mathematics –B (3 credits)
Graduated with 3.15 after slow start (2 C's in the mist of courses as well)

I know the two C's, the F, and D will trash my sgpa but will a combination post-baccalaureate and SMP help.


Community college classes: (Graduated with 3.42 cgpa); * = Updated
*1997 Fall: Biology I Lab - A (1 credit)
*1997 Fall: Biology I - A (3 credits)
*1998 Spring: Elementary Algebra -C (3 credits)
*1998 Spring: Biology II Lab - B (1 credit)
*1998 Spring: Biology II - B (3 credits)
*1998 Summer: Intermediate Algebra -C (3 credits)

1998 Fall: College Algebra - A (3 credits)
1998 Fall: Physical Science Survey I Lab – NC (no credit)
1998 Fall: Physical Science Survey I – B (3 credits)
1999 Spring: Microbiology Lab - A (1 credit)
1999 Spring: Microbiology – A (3 credits)
1999 Spring: Trigonometry – B (3 credits)
1999 Summer: Introduction to Organic BioChemistry Lab – A (1 credit)
1999 Summer: Introduction to Organic BioChemistry – A (3 credits)

* indicates updated courses, previously omitted

Private College: (Declared Major as Comp. Sci. but, later, changed in Bus. Admin.)
1999 Fall: Calculus with Analytic Geometry – F (3 credits)
2000 Spring: Calculus with Analytic Geometry – D (3 credits)
2000 Fall: Elementary Statistics – B (3 credits)
2001 Spring: Finite Mathematics –B (3 credits)
Graduated with 3.15 after slow start (2 C's in the mist of courses as well)

I know the two C's, the F, and D will trash my sgpa but will a combination post-baccalaureate and SMP help. This comprises all my science classes. I did take computer science, but I did not add. I also have Business Statistic course that I did not add.
 
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check077

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Previous post was done in error. Below is what I cut from it to minimize confusion:


One person recommended that I enroll at local 4 year university and do One year of full time course work (30+ credit) with mostly science courses.

Afterwards, the recommendation is that I enroll in an SMP and do really well. Now, is this feasible to do if I'm working fulltime (40 hours a week)? Goal for MD path = 2 years? versus goal for DO = 2 years [correction: 6 months was said before further research which included prerequisites]

I mostly got low scores in the math courses versus pure science. I've gotten better with math since then through self-teaching.

***I also added the Private College section.
 
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TriagePreMed

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The good news for you is that AACOMAS (the DO version of AMCAS) doesn't count mathematics for the science GPA, so you potentially have a higher GPA. Like I said before, it is wisest to go the DO route on this and apply to low ranking MD programs as a reach. If MD is truly your goal, you'll need to do at least enough to break the science 3.0. It would be best if you did do it at a 4 year college. The time to do that will depend on various factors.

Working 40 hours a week and doing 30 units a year sounds like a poor choice to me. Even if the classes don't require laboratory, the study time might be too great to handle.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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I think if he's using the DO Sgpa criteria his science gpa is a bit higher. He's got 2 F's and a few c's in mathematics courses which are going to doubtingly kill hurt him.

Anyway OP.
DO is almost 100% your best option. I believe for SMP's you need to have a 2.75 science gpa to get in + you'll need a good gpa ( However if you're an URM there are admissions programs such as Drexel which might take you). With 238 credits your gpa is not going to be moving very fast..
 

Catalystik

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Even if your cGPA doesn't move very far, establishing a steep upward grade trend will help you. If your 2.62 BCPM GPA conisists of 45 credits, then another 45 credits (three semesters) of straight As in upper-level Bio and retakes will get you to a 3.3 BCPM GPA.

I'd agree that taking a full postbac courseload and working full time doesn't seem like a very good idea when academic excellence if imperative for you to demonstrate. The same would be true for an SMP which will be even more intense and where the consequences of mediocrity will be devastating to getting into an MD school.

Have you calculated your DO application GPA and sGPA using their grade forgiveness policy?
 
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check077

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I apologize for crunching the numbers in such a rush.

Based on recalculations, my sGPA is 2.809 and the number of science credits that I've taken is 42.
 
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check077

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Now, I guess this is considering the DO path. If I take all math classes out (including ones I did relatively well in), I have a 3.588 BCPM gpa.


Of course, I'm still looking into the DO/AACOMAS Application, but the calculations above run a scenario analysis without the math scores.
 
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check077

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After visiting the PostBacc section, it was brought to my attention that I needed to complete my prerequisites:

A year each of physics, chemistry, and organic chemistry will be needed to even consider DO or MD. So, that will be 24 credits, which could take a year or more if I'm not going to school fulltime.

Based on my uGPA, it will take 60 hours of straight A's to get my gpa up to a 3.5 gpa (considering fulltime informal postbacc with no job).

I need to consider how much financial aid I will have available to support the classes as well as myself for the next two years.

Hmm, I probably need to at least consider working towards my CPA if this doesn't prove to be a feasible pathway.

By the way, here are grades for English I, English II, and English, they were B, C, and A, respectively.
 
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check077

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The organic chemistry has to be in a series as noted by one of the posters. It will count in the sGPA but not as a prerequisite.

Now, somehow, I did leave out my biology classes and I did leave out several of the classes above (Fall 1997 to Summer 1998). With those in the mix, I'll later review their responses.

However, they surmise that I should take two years of prerequisites (Straight A's) and get an MCAT score of 32+ while voluteering for clinical experience. As stated by one poster, "Anything less and you're in for a fight."
 
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check077

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Thanks for these great tools. After using a more out-of-date exel file, which obviously had calculation errors, I bet these will provide a more accurate picture of my academic predicament.

Thanks again, Catalystik!

Now, I need to map out a good schedule to improve my grades.
 
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check077

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Under the Do excel file, you will notice that it only calculates grades and gpa for years that science courses are taken.

Also, under the MD, I've included that the two graduate level education courses under post-bacc. Unfortunately, I was not very studious for the MPA (3.08 gpa w/o graduate level education courses). However, I believe it is a wide-spread conclusion that only my undergraduate gpa counts.

Also, I've noticed that Mississippi College has a SMP program that will use GRE or MCAT for scoring test available.

To be short, what would be my chances of attending University of Mississippi Medical Center? I've noticed that the average gpa is 3.64, so I do not know if my chances would be good with that.

This is a slide that I had found at UMSOM before calculating my grades agan: http://som.umc.edu/Presentations/Pathway Presentation.pdf.

Based on the link, is there any hope for me to attend, since it's in close proximity to where I live.
 

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Catalystik

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To be short, what would be my chances of attending University of Mississippi Medical Center? I've noticed that the average gpa is 3.64, so I do not know if my chances would be good with that.

Based on the link, is there any hope for me to attend, since it's in close proximity to where I live.
The mean matriculant cGPA is 3.55, BCPM 3.41, and MCAT score 25.9. A good question would be: if you got a really good MCAT score would that compensate for a low cGPA. Since you live so close to the school, why not make an appointment with someone in the admissions office and ask what it would take to get an acceptance, considering your past academics. Ask how they'd factor in an SMP and how well you'd need to perform. Ask if informal postbac classes alone would be good enough if you got great grades and pulled your BCPM up to a 3.3 or so.
 

fahimaz7

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I'm not sure why you think you can get into a DO school with only 6 months of effort. You have a long history of mediocre grades (or poor if we're going by medical student benchmarks), and you're going to have to do something outstanding to get yourself out of the hole that you have dug.

Your last degree was this year. Why were you still scoring so poorly? You have almost a 10 year history of making the same grades? On top of that, you haven't taken a science class in 10 years?

Ps. I'm all about preparing for the worst case scenario, but why are you still pursuing graduate degree's in fields that have nothing to do with medicine?

If I was an adcom, I might view your application as a person who doesn't know what he/she wants to do, and isn't very motivated or focused in any of it.
 
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check077

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Okay, I think I've had a history of anxiety disorder, which is not an excuse but an explanation. Unfortunately, I should have undergone some type of counseling for it as well. This has not helped by my current job prospects since I've earned an MBA (w/ 3.5 gpa). Now, I pursued the MPA as a temporary worker, because someone in the family urged that I didn't quit my job while pursuing another degree. If I had a more stable job, I could have started on slower schedule before I got the hang of things. Someone once said if you're going to be a student, then, be a student! I agree at least in part.

Additionally the stress of not having a decent job or being employable with my first graduate degree did not help me at all.

Since childhood, I've developed a mental habit of thinking that I had to be extremely exhausted after productive session or productivity had to be extremely difficult. This is/was almost as if I'm Batman trying to reach his utility belt in a hostile environment. I'm getting better now, but a littlle counseling will help do the trick--maybe not much is needed because I've had great results just after one informal session with a social worker.

Now, with the MPA degree, I completed this under rather unstable working conditions: as a temporary employee which exacerbated the distress.


I--now--realize that I've definitely sold myself short. Many of my professors have commented that I have untapped potential, which at times I've learned to demonstrate.

Fahimaz7, I'm feeling conflicted now about enrolling for third (3rd) graduate degree (Master of Arts in Teaching), for which I do not have to complete to obtain a teaching license. After all, I still have feed myself in the process of preparing for medical school. However, I never really liked Accounting, and one of the professors encouraged me to stop because I was not focused. Unfortunately, I hate to quit once I've started something, which I've learned to change in some circumstances.
I always perceived academia more difficult than it actually was...until now.

Also, Fahimaz7, I have adjusted that DO time length to that of the MD because I have not taken a year's requirement of physics, chemistry, and organic chemistry for starters.

However, what specific actions do you think I should take in repairing my medical school prospects?

Other Explantions, so none are excuses:
Also, I'm trying to teach because my low MPA gpa is not helping with any accounting job offers—at least, until I complete the CPA. I'm trying to develop a more stable work scenario (i.e., temporary with MBA/MPA). Of course, I've talked to one of my accounting professors and he said that I should just complete my CPA to increase my marketability.

I also have a number of health issues which I have to contend with.
 
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nabeel76

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I'm not sure why you think you can get into a DO school with only 6 months of effort. You have a long history of mediocre grades (or poor if we're going by medical student benchmarks), and you're going to have to do something outstanding to get yourself out of the hole that you have dug.

Your last degree was this year. Why were you still scoring so poorly? You have almost a 10 year history of making the same grades? On top of that, you haven't taken a science class in 10 years?

Ps. I'm all about preparing for the worst case scenario, but why are you still pursuing graduate degree's in fields that have nothing to do with medicine?

If I was an adcom, I might view your application as a person who doesn't know what he/she wants to do, and isn't very motivated or focused in any of it.

My thoughts exactly!
 
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check077

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Any specific suggestions, Fahimaz7 and Nabeel76?
 
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check077

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Any specific suggestions, Fahimaz7 and Nabeel76?

I wish I had did this with my past academics and let the chips fall where they may.

At least, at the end of the day, I would have said I put in a reasonable amount of effort. And if that effort was short, I would have given myself a chance to adjust. Now, that's true learning? Well, I know now. Now, I know nabeel76 has provided me with constructive advice, but, Fahimaz7, what do you specifically suggest.

[update]: After careful consideration, I see your points Fahimaz7 and nabeel76. I need to address whatever the mental issues I'm having that is causing me to score poorly. So, based on that suggestion, even though I'm coping with those issues on my own now, I'm going to call the student support facility to ensure I'm not repeating this trend in the future. Part of my problem is that I rushed back to school in a unstable working environmnet, this was not helpful and, additionally, I was not used to working fulltime and going to school fulltime. I was unsure about how to produce quality work at that juncture of my academic career. I guess the only thing I can do is to move forward and push this medical school thing back about three years or so.

***Most importantly****: I will call the local medical to see if I can get anything on my prospects if I attended a local college's SMP program and do well.

Fahimaz7 and nabeel76, your comments are very sobering for me, and I feel absolutely terrible about my situation and how I've responded to it. I will seek the help I need this time to minimize my pondering on worse case scenarios and other fear based assumptions. Thanks for the very brutal yet realistic comments. I wish I had you guys three years earlier.
 
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check077

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@fahimaz7:
...I'm going to go ahead and complete the CPA to the degree that I've just completed as well as the two graduate teaching classes.

Once I have a decent job, I'll pursue the prerequisites.

At present, it's hard for me to just quit my current job and pursue school fulltime, since I'll have to rely on my own support to do so, without making the proper arrangements for that time.

I want to make sure that I can have a place to stay during sessions when school is out.