SGU vs KCUMB

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And its your fault.....




No seriously the thread revival started w u didn't it?

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I'm sorry, you dont get to call someone out and then pretend to take the high road. They teach that in D-bagging 101.

I did not imply that step1 score is the primary determinant in what specialty someone decides to go in to. In fact, I implied the exact opposite. I said only that low board scores can tend to limit. This is why I said the implication and your understanding were quite different. The only thing "exposed" here is your lack of reading comprehension. What I said was that it is unreasonable to assume that, out of 1000 or so students, that NONE of them were interested in competitive fields. The only implication that supports what you are saying is that all 600 of those who matched chose primary care, EM, or psych, based on no outside restrictions, an that the other 400 chose not to enter the match.
Saying someone with low scores cannot match a competitive field =/= saying people in non-competitive fields have low scores. THAT is a proper example of a fallacy, not the correlation above which was never extended as proof (only suggestion), and citing it as you did above is a strawman tactic.


If you actually take the time to think critically rather than responding based on emotional tangents while trying to root out phantom fallacies, you would understand that your argument "board scores do not determine what field someone wants to go into" is actually evidence for my point: we would expect to see a similar number of people who want to go into all areas of medicine as we do from other schools/regions.

So one more time, (you ready for it this time?)
having a high board score does not mean you have to go into derm/ortho/whatever.
Rather, having a low board score does typically mean you will not get into/be offered interview for derm/ortho/whatever.

You can cite exceptions if you want, but that does not change the rule and would only demonstrate a lack of understanding of averages to go along with this reading comp issue we looked at earlier.
So there it is. Vastly different from the implication you thought was being made. And I am actually rather sad that I had to hold your hand through it. But I will leave you here to take your own advice concerning mocking handicapped people and allow this thread to rest in pieces.

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Read through the entire thread... mainly SGU bashing when comparing it to any DO school. But my question is for someone whose sole interest in medicine is to get the letters "MD" next to his name, is SGU a wise option if said person did not get any US allopathic acceptances?

How difficult do you think it would be to be in that 50th percentile of SGU students and to get a US match? (Don't the average students there have terrible stats anyway? Like 3.2/24 or something like that?)
 
Read through the entire thread... mainly SGU bashing when comparing it to any DO school. But my question is for someone whose sole interest in medicine is to get the letters "MD" next to his name, is SGU a wise option if said person did not get any US allopathic acceptances?

How difficult do you think it would be to be in that 50th percentile of SGU students and to get a US match? (Don't the average students there have terrible stats anyway? Like 3.2/24 or something like that?)

All I can say is every student that enrolls there believes they can be in the top 50%. Half of them are completely wrong, and that's quite the morbid joke.
 
All I can say is every student that enrolls there believes they can be in the top 50%. Half of them are completely wrong, and that's quite the morbid joke.
Which brings up my previous point - don't most of the students there have awful stats? Would you say someone with low tier MD school/high tier DO school stats (~3.67/30) could outperform over 50% of SGU students? (whose stats I assume are worse)

Again, I did not intend to come across as a "troll" or as bashing DO. I'm perfectly aware that DO is the infinitely better option if my main priority is matching into a specialty I am interested in. But I would rather be an MD in my last choice specialty than a DO in my first choice. Just my personal preference. And I've been hearing that SGU's average stats are something like 3.4/24.
 
Which brings up my previous point - don't most of the students there have awful stats? Would you say someone with low tier MD school/high tier DO school stats (~3.67/30) could outperform over 50% of SGU students? (whose stats I assume are worse)

Again, I did not intend to come across as a "troll" or as bashing DO. I'm perfectly aware that DO is the infinitely better option if my main priority is matching into a specialty I am interested in. But I would rather be an MD in my last choice specialty than a DO in my first choice. Just my personal preference. And I've been hearing that SGU's average stats are something like 3.4/24.

i highly doubt that...

but if so, SGU can give u that
 
Which brings up my previous point - don't most of the students there have awful stats? Would you say someone with low tier MD school/high tier DO school stats (~3.67/30) could outperform over 50% of SGU students? (whose stats I assume are worse)

Again, I did not intend to come across as a "troll" or as bashing DO. I'm perfectly aware that DO is the infinitely better option if my main priority is matching into a specialty I am interested in. But I would rather be an MD in my last choice specialty than a DO in my first choice. Just my personal preference. And I've been hearing that SGU's average stats are something like 3.4/24.

It's hard to answer a question like this because it depends on how motivated you are. I've seen friends of mine who kinda screwed around in undergrad and didnt take their MCAT seriously --- lets say get ~3.0 GPA and a 24 MCAT and ROCK their step 1 while at a Carib school. Like many of them get 240+. See, the advantage of an American school (MD or DO) is that it allows you some breathing room, there's lots of student support (relatively speaking to offshore schools) and you don't need a 240+ to be comfortable going into the match.

But I guess if you are considering stats alone, you mentioned 30 MCAT and 3.67 GPA, I think a person that could perform at that caliber in undergrad definitely has a great chance of being top 50% at SGU. But I guess what most of us are saying here is that when you go to med school you start off on equal footing as your peers at that school (US MD vs. DO vs. Carib), everything before becomes irrelevant. Why would you waste an opportunity to come to an American school when you worked so hard in undergrad (those stats I'm assuming are yours are probably 90% percentile at SGU). Use your achievements in undergrad to place you in better footing for the future -- getting a better education at a DO program and getting a leg up on the match. Starting at a DO school makes your match options so much better regardless of how hard you work at SGU.
 
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^ But do you really need a 240+ to get ANY match in the US from SGU? What scores do you think will get it done?
 
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Do you really think you will be happier being an MD in your last choice residency than as a DO in your first choice residency? The satisfaction of having an MD after ur name won't last very long if you hate what your doing in a place you don't really want to be.
 
^ But do you really need a 240+ to get ANY match in the US from SGU? What scores do you think will get it done?

Probably not if you don't care about your geographic location and strength of program.
 
^ But do you really need a 240+ to get ANY match in the US from SGU? What scores do you think will get it done?

You're thinking about this wrong. Only 50% graduate but only 50-70% of the ones eho graduate match. So yeah you need to score really high to match. Hoe old are you? I ask bc the older you get the more you realize how mich job satisfaction matters. If you hate what you're doing 50 hrs a week,no MD title will make you like it
 
You're thinking about this wrong. Only 50% graduate but only 50-70% of the ones eho graduate match. So yeah you need to score really high to match. Hoe old are you? I ask bc the older you get the more you realize how mich job satisfaction matters. If you hate what you're doing 50 hrs a week,no MD title will make you like it

all that's not true either. graduating being allowed to sit for the u s emily and all that crap are hurdles. Hurdles that will eliminate 40 to 50 percent of people. but by the time scramble is over that 50 percent that can apply do match at high percentages. is it the ideal geography or the first choice field? anecdotes and some common sense analysis overwhelmingly suggest not. but matching somewhere is not the issue. the numbers are fine in that case
 
all that's not true either. graduating being allowed to sit for the u s emily and all that crap are hurdles. Hurdles that will eliminate 40 to 50 percent of people. but by the time scramble is over that 50 percent that can apply do match at high percentages. is it the ideal geography or the first choice field? anecdotes and some common sense analysis overwhelmingly suggest not. but matching somewhere is not the issue. the numbers are fine in that case
And I guess that's my only concern. From what you guys are saying, if an SGU student were to make the cut/avoid being a part of the 50% who do not qualify to take the USMLE, this person is highly, highly likely to match somewhere in the US - though very likely into an FM/Peds at a small hospital in a dump of a city.

Correct?
 
I'm perfectly aware that DO is the infinitely better option if my main priority is matching into a specialty I am interested in. But I would rather be an MD in my last choice specialty than a DO in my first choice. Just my personal preference. And I've been hearing that SGU's average stats are something like 3.4/24.

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Jesus Christ...you sound like an insecure, prestige ***** who is desperately seeking mommy and daddy's approval. I understand why some people don't agree with going DO (OMM or whatever), but you are obviously concentrated on the effing letters at the end of your name. Come up with something better.
 
Jesus Christ...you sound like an insecure, prestige ***** who is desperately seeking mommy and daddy's approval

You know what, if that's the choice he's making Mbeas - he deserves a Caribbean School. I look forward to seeing him/her post on the forums in 4 years when he's unable to obtain any residency.

As a student at a US MD school that has a DO school literally across the street I can tell you first hand most people don't care US MD/DO. But if you talk about Caribbean MD's that all change.

US MD > or = US DO (I believe them to be equal) >>>>>>>>>>> Caribbean MD

The stats back it up, Hockeydoctor posted an amazing thread a while ago comparing the two. If, knowing all this, you still choose a Carib MD then you deserve that school.

Someone else said it best - Sure, many people don't know what DO means. But almost everyone knows what a Caribbean MD is, and that's not a good thing.

Also, first post :p
 
You know what, if that's the choice he's making Mbeas - he deserves a Caribbean School. I look forward to seeing him/her post on the forums in 4 years when he's unable to obtain any residency.

I don't think he should go to a DO school, and I mean that sincerely. He obviously isn't comfortable with it and he understands the repercussions of his decision. Some would call that irrational, but it makes sense in his head. So whatever. I think the Caribbean, China or India for medical school would be his best bet. Again, no sarcasm intended. DO isn't for everyone.

Also, first post :p

Solid.
 
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And I guess that's my only concern. From what you guys are saying, if an SGU student were to make the cut/avoid being a part of the 50% who do not qualify to take the USMLE, this person is highly, highly likely to match somewhere in the US - though very likely into an FM/Peds at a small hospital in a dump of a city.

Correct?

Hey. you understand what you are doing plenty well. I wish you best of luck my friend. Go out and be the doctor you want to be. We're all a bit defensive here, don't get soured by us. If you understand the risk I can't fault you for doing what you really want to do.
 
Jesus Christ...you sound like an insecure, prestige ***** who is desperately seeking mommy and daddy's approval. I understand why some people don't agree with going DO (OMM or whatever), but you are obviously concentrated on the effing letters at the end of your name. Come up with something better.


Why should I come up with "something better"? Because it bothers you? Too bad. It's my life, my money that will be spent, my time that will be sacrificed etc. I should be able to choose what I want to do for my own reasons. As I already mentioned, I know the route to landing a good residency in a strong program is significantly easier as a DO. Just want to make sure that Caribs have a respectable chance at a US residency, no matter what/where it is.
 
Why should I come up with "something better"? Because it bothers you? Too bad. It's my life, my money that will be spent, my time that will be sacrificed etc. I should be able to choose what I want to do for my own reasons. As I already mentioned, I know the route to landing a good residency in a strong program is significantly easier as a DO. Just want to make sure that Caribs have a respectable chance at a US residency, no matter what/where it is.

Nope, it doesn't bother me at all, actually. I genuinely couldn't give one of my wonderful, *prestigious*, rose scented sh*ts what you do. I just can't help but laugh at the fact that you just want to be an MD. You don't care what you practice. You don't care where you practice. Your reasons for going into medicine seem to be flawed, but hey, whatever floats your boat. I wasn't responding because I cared, just because I thought it was comical. That's all. Good luck in your future endeavors.
 
Meh. To each his own. Reminds me of this girl I knew who really believed in the amazingness of her LV handbag... Not sure where it was made.
 
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I'm just glad I decided to go to a DO school rather than the Carib, I have a friend who went to SGU and graduated in 09 and still cant find a residency position.
 
Meh. To each his own. Reminds me of this girl I knew who really believed in the amazingness of her LV handbag... Not sure where it was made.

ive known those..... really nothing other than evidence of the impact of peer pressure and impressionability. Those things look like they would be better suited for military use (already the right colors). Its just chic camouflage for women folk :laugh:

Also apparently the comparison doesnt translate properly when told to someone who owns one of those things. We apparently are not able to agree on the importance of ideals set arbitrarily by the fashion elite. After a few years of seeing the black tights w/ uggs look Im convinced that someone out there is starting trends just to screw with everyone and sitting back and laughing while everyone else dawns the ridiculous outfits that are put in style.
 
all that's not true either. graduating being allowed to sit for the u s emily and all that crap are hurdles. Hurdles that will eliminate 40 to 50 percent of people. but by the time scramble is over that 50 percent that can apply do match at high percentages. is it the ideal geography or the first choice field? anecdotes and some common sense analysis overwhelmingly suggest not. but matching somewhere is not the issue. the numbers are fine in that case

Source? This article from 2010 suggests the match rate at Ross was only 80%. I know its not SGU, but i have a hard time believeing SGU is that much better.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/medicine/article1061189.ece
 
Source? This article from 2010 suggests the match rate at Ross was only 80%. I know its not SGU, but i have a hard time believeing SGU is that much better.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/medicine/article1061189.ece

I believe the 80% is "of those who entered the match". not "of those who graduated". or even "of the class of xxxx". At carib schools the attrition rate is quite high as is the % who do not enter the match after 4th year, and I dont think those students are included in their proclaimed match rates.
 
I believe the 80% is "of those who entered the match". not "of those who graduated". or even "of the class of xxxx". At carib schools the attrition rate is quite high as is the % who do not enter the match after 4th year, and I dont think those students are included in their proclaimed match rates.

The article said 20% of graduates find residencies.
 
I wonder if we could ever find out the true graduation rate for a class. 250 students started for class of 2012 but only 200 graduated or something like that. Anyone know those numbers?
 
ok, i read the article lol.

right above the 20% it also says that fewer than 1/3 actually complete schooling. From what I have heard, it is not uncommon for carib schools to withhold graduation for those unlikely to match anyways (can someone confirm?). So they are failing out 66% of their students pre-match, and even then only 80% of those who graduate get a spot. I still think that 80% is inflated, the match IS before graduation, remember :laugh:
 
ok, i read the article lol.

right above the 20% it also says that fewer than 1/3 actually complete schooling. From what I have heard, it is not uncommon for carib schools to withhold graduation for those unlikely to match anyways (can someone confirm?). So they are failing out 66% of their students pre-match, and even then only 80% of those who graduate get a spot. I still think that 80% is inflated, the match IS before graduation, remember :laugh:

Because of the kooky way ross (and SGU and auc and....) Works you tend to graduate a whole before you match. Not true for everyone, likely around 1/3 of them finish in a timeframe that resembles US schools. The rest work on odd semesters out of synch with American schools.

Also I can confirm that admission vs graduation numbers show higher than a 40% fail out rate. its suggested at ross about 10% are stuck in an endless loop of repeat years. SGU has a similar situation but with a higher number of those stick in perpetual repeats. (the enrolled vs graduated numbers are equally dismal, they just don't straight dismiss you. You repeat until you quit).
 
It's only getting worse for the Caribbean grads with new MD & DO Schools opening. I also doubt there are many research opportunities or other ways to beef up your CV/Resumé when you're literally stranded on an island. This would also depend on the faculty that are there but again, I doubt you can find a frequently publishing, well respected prof that has opportunities for students.
 
After a few years of seeing the black tights w/ uggs look Im convinced that someone out there is starting trends just to screw with everyone and sitting back and laughing while everyone else dawns the ridiculous outfits that are put in style.

Yep. Everyone sheepishly follows along, while they're laughing all the way to the bank.
 
So basically SGU is the big man in red...
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And then this happens...

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So symbolicly speaking, Pinochhio is a carib grad that gets away from pleasure island and lands a residency position
 
Also apparently the comparison doesnt translate properly when told to someone who owns one of those things. We apparently are not able to agree on the importance of ideals set arbitrarily by the fashion elite. After a few years of seeing the black tights w/ uggs look Im convinced that someone out there is starting trends just to screw with everyone and sitting back and laughing while everyone else dawns the ridiculous outfits that are put in style.

I won't lie and say that I love how they look on, but maybe the trend persists (partially) because Uggs are super comfortable and warm.....I personally have had the same pair for the past 3 years which means they have endured 3 Canadian winters!...lol
 
I won't lie and say that I love how they look on, but maybe the trend persists (partially) because Uggs are super comfortable and warm.....I personally have had the same pair for the past 3 years which means they have endured 3 Canadian winters!...lol

yeah I keep hearing that... but I refuse to believe that rationale when the girls are wearing sheer and skin tight black tights with them. How much does it matter that your toes are warm when your ass is cold? :rolleyes:
 
yeah I keep hearing that... but I refuse to believe that rationale when the girls are wearing sheer and skin tight black tights with them. How much does it matter that your toes are warm when your ass is cold? :rolleyes:

Dude, you realize what you're doing, right? Who cares about how it feels for them. We, as guys, get to see girls in tight pants year round. If the boots make them feel warm enough to wear yoga pants in December, so be it! Don't question a good thing!
 
Dude, you realize what you're doing, right? Who cares about how it feels for them. We, as guys, get to see girls in tight pants year round. If the boots make them feel warm enough to wear yoga pants in December, so be it! Don't question a good thing!

In nearly every state where such a look could be deemed "seasonable" I am very uninterested in seeing those tight pants.... In my experience it is not a good thing
 
In nearly every state where such a look could be deemed "seasonable" I am very uninterested in seeing those tight pants.... In my experience it is not a good thing

thankfully those australian boots went out of style in new york city years ago. but tights and yoga pants are still very much in style in new york city. even in the surprisingly cold winters. they just wear them with a really nice leather boots.

3 cheers for new york. the skinniest city in america and land of the fashionista.
 
thankfully those australian boots went out of style in new york city years ago. but tights and yoga pants are still very much in style in new york city. even in the surprisingly cold winters. they just wear them with a really nice leather boots.

3 cheers for new york. the skinniest city in america and land of the fashionista.

yoga pants >>>>> tights. From what I can tell, yes there is a difference
 
WHOA WUbear coming out of left field in defense of SGU!?! Kind of weird. I thought you were at NJMS in Newark (MD)? Really curious about the sudden appearance in a forum where you never (or rarely) post. What is the motivation behind this? Seriously.

Why neglect to see that 1100- 606= 494 up $#!+'s creek with paddles this deep ---> ] ???




I thought he did post bacc in new jersey and went to the islands. but I could totally see my assumption being wrong and he was just defending students he had met through his school. unfortunately he only use the propaganda numbers without checking in any of the actual statistics. that could very well be the case

I am matriculating at a US MD school in NYC this fall. I did an SMP at, and researched at multiple schools of UMDNJ. The three most represented med schools among the many residents, fellows, and young attendings I met at UMDNJ (which we can probably generalize to be at a low university level for residency rating) were NJMS, RWJMS, and SGU. If there were 1100 enrolled in the class that produced a match list of 600 (i hope someone can provide a source, i doubt SGU has such significant attrition, but if that's the case please show me), then KC is certainly the safer choice

I would definitely agree that yoga pants are generally better, but not when the option is there for no pants.

One thing we agree on

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