Should a female pharmacist ask her fiancé to sign a prenup before marriage?

swatchgirl

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I know it might be against gender role, but is it not wise to sign a prenup, especially if the fiancé wants to quit his job and be a stay-at-home father, while his wife works full-time in retail pharmacy to support him and any future children he may father?
 

stark3

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I know it might be against gender role, but is it not wise to sign a prenup, especially if the fiancé wants to quit his job and be a stay-at-home father, while his wife works full-time in retail pharmacy to support him and any future children he may father?
From my understanding, prenups only play a part for wealth obtained prior to the marriage. It wont help with money made while you guys are married.
 

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swatchgirl

swatchgirl

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From my understanding, prenups only play a part for wealth obtained prior to the marriage. It wont help with money made while you guys are married.
Since having children out of wedlock is still frowned upon, what other options are there to protect one's future assets?
 

giga

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Everyone should consider getting a prenup, or at the very least, have a very detailed conversation about expectations around money. Don't wait until after you get married to have that conversation.

Also, what @stark3 said is not accurate - every state has different laws regarding prenups. It's best for you to meet with a lawyer to understand exactly what a prenup can't and cannot do in your state. Also, keep in mind, that it doesn't matter in which state you got the prenup, what matters is which state you get divorced in. Some judges will honor other states' prenups, but some won't. If you anticipate moving to a different state in the near future, I would consider getting a prenup in the state you are moving to. It's not a bad idea to meet with a lawyer to even see if you need a prenup. When you get married the marriage license is essentially a prenup already, it's just the default prenup that the state has set up for you already. Perhaps what is already the default meets your needs. A marriage license is a serious legal contract, do not take it lightly. Again, having an open, honest, conversation with your fiancé about expectations around money (how are things going to get paid for, who is going to pay for what, how is saving for retirement going to look like, what are your financial goals, do both of you see eye-to-eye on those goals, etc.) is probably the best thing you can do to avoid ever having to utilize a prenup.
 

WVUPharm2007

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The hell does gender have to do with it? To quote the great philosopher Kanye West:

Should've got that insured, Geico for your money
If you ain't no punk
Holla, "We want prenup! We want prenup!"
It's something that you need to have
‘Cause when she leave your ass, she gon' leave with half
 

WVUPharm2007

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Since having children out of wedlock is still frowned upon, what other options are there to protect one's future assets?
Hide money in the Cayman Islands.
 
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swatchgirl

swatchgirl

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Everyone should consider getting a prenup, or at the very least, have a very detailed conversation about expectations around money. Don't wait until after you get married to have that conversation.

Also, what @stark3 said is not accurate - every state has different laws regarding prenups. It's best for you to meet with a lawyer to understand exactly what a prenup can't and cannot do in your state. Also, keep in mind, that it doesn't matter in which state you got the prenup, what matters is which state you get divorced in. Some judges will honor other states' prenups, but some won't. If you anticipate moving to a different state in the near future, I would consider getting a prenup in the state you are moving to. It's not a bad idea to meet with a lawyer to even see if you need a prenup. When you get married the marriage license is essentially a prenup already, it's just the default prenup that the state has set up for you already. Perhaps what is already the default meets your needs. A marriage license is a serious legal contract, do not take it lightly. Again, having an open, honest, conversation with your fiancé about expectations around money (how are things going to get paid for, who is going to pay for what, how is saving for retirement going to look like, what are your financial goals, do both of you see eye-to-eye on those goals, etc.) is probably the best thing you can do to avoid ever having to utilize a prenup.
Well said. Thank you.
 
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lord999

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I know it might be against gender role, but is it not wise to sign a prenup, especially if the fiancé wants to quit his job and be a stay-at-home father, while his wife works full-time in retail pharmacy to support him and any future children he may father?
There's no such thing as gender roles about modern reality (isn't that the positive endpoint of feminism?). If that is what makes you feel safe with your assets, do what it takes. Whether it is wise or not depends on perspective. From the financial perspective, it makes sense if you have real assets and you're not in a community property state. From the emotional perspective, that's a question you'll have to figure out maybe with your partner or possibly by yourself (although I would say it doesn't bode well the more you have to think about it alone although you will need to a little).

Speaking from personal experience, I signed one with my wife, and she is in the same position as you are where I certainly married into a higher income category by an order of magnitude in her good years than what I make in civil service (and I am in the GS topcoded bracket as well!). I was not uncomfortable then and am not now about it, because I have no intention of letting it be invoked (and even if it does, we can walk away like people and restrain the urge to be self-destructive). However, I'm not the house husband (we file a Schedule H), but I might as well not work as it's actually tax disadvantageous for me to be paid for work. If she does find someone else that's more a peer than me and trades up, I'll do just fine with the division and she won't lose anything critical and we both have our occupations. If we didn't have the prenup, it would be me with a fairly huge alimony claim versus the fact that I'd be taking on two or three of the strongest firms in the city and that my wife is rather well-regarded in the legal community such that the trial would be The War of the Roses at best. Thankfully, I happily married a practical woman and wouldn't have had it any other way.

I don't necessarily echo the advice though that "everyone" should get a prenup unlike the other side where everyone should get a will. It really depends on the state's family law as a pre-nup can be revoked or overruled due to change of circumstances or expire. I definitely would in CA due to the way that works. Where I am from and where I live, it's not so straightforward unless there is a large divergence in assets (a house owned by only one party into the marriage, >$250k money equivalent assets, income differential more than 100% or one of the parties makes less than the adjusted FPL for the area). If we were my recent grads who intermarried: just two pharmacists and both of us worked and both of us were broke/had debt and neither of us had assets, I'd probably would not because there isn't anything to defend. The other side of that may be that the #1 cause of divorces is still money and the ability to have those frank conversations about money with your spouse have some predictive ability on trouble ahead. With mine, if she doesn't work another day (a mental breakdown at work) or I do to her, it wouldn't matter. We met and had a relationship while we were both relatively "poor", so we know how what each of us are like when we're just in survival mode.
 

Momus

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From my understanding, prenups only play a part for wealth obtained prior to the marriage. It wont help with money made while you guys are married.
Not true, you can separate 401k, future inheritance, pension, rental properties, portfolio, bank account, or other assets with prenup even when you have no assets to begin with. You should know the law in your state you will be getting married in AND living in, community property or common law. Understand the law pertaining to separate property and community property for your state as well. Marriage is a standard prenup. One you might not want if you bring in a lot more to the table. You need to thread carefully before you co-mingle your assets. For example, if you have a rental house before marriage (your separate property), and your new wife/husband paints the house, she/he can argue the house is now community property. If you pay a mortgage from your join account, she/he can lay claim that your separate house is now a marital property. Luckily, in some states (CA), they permit assets tracing to prevent this from happening as long as you can prove it. The easiest way to prevent commingling is through prenup. Once it is in writing, it's fairly difficult for the other to just claim your separate property his/her. Most prenups are upheld, regardless whether spouses commingled their property.

There are two ways you can protect your assets.
1. Prenup
2. Put all your assets/incoming inheritance in a trust. Premarital trust. It doesn't need his consent. This might be less damaging to the relationship.

Everyone gets married with the best intention, but sh1t happens. I am in the camp of signing a prenup if one has more assets than the others. I will sign one myself if a wealthy SO presents me with one. It's only fair that their larger assets are theirs before marriage and after and I don't want to claim that as a marital property in the event of a divorce. I can totally see the point. If the woman/man doesn't want to sign a prenup, she/he might be only after your money.
 

ldiot

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The Christian part of me says don't get one unless you have a few million.

The part of me that has experience dealing with the general population says that anyone and everyone should get one.

It's really a personal choice, and I would seek professional help if you are looking to protect future earnings.
 

confettiflyer

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Depends....is the couple in question in a community property or equitable distribution state? Are there significant assets to be protected that one spouse brings to the table? Are there children from a prior marriage that need to be accounted for? Are parents transferring assets to either the bride or groom, or both?

There are other questions involved, it can get really dicey. I usually dole out legal advice, but I'm going to bow out of this one and suggest hiring an attorney on a contract basis to answer your questions and determine the best method to protect current and future assets in the event of a separation.

Sometimes a domestic irrevocable trust or revocable trust executed prior to marriage makes more sense, sometimes you want to go full yard and set up offshore limited partnerships...AND combine it with a prenup, it all depends on past/current/expected future.
 

radio frequency

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This is such a personal question. I wouldn't, but I can definitely see why people would (and most should). It is going to be totally case specific. The general answer is "never a bad idea"; the specific answer will involve the person you are involved in, their family and asset situation, and also knowing both of your characters and how you regard money and people.
 

ldiot

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Why does he want to quit his job? You don't even have kids yet... you aren't even married yet.

I wouldn't marry someone who wants to sit on their butt all day while I support them whether they are male or female.
 
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fewaopi

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Giga said it well. Marriage already comes with a default prenup, half/half roughly. Getting a prenup is just taking action on how to redistribute the resources not dictated by state.

I know prenup is kinda like having one leg out the door already, but it's always good protection to have. I think people's attitudes are changing, especially as more women work, marriages don't last as long or succeed, it's good practice to have one.
 

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I have never heard anyone say " why would you consider buying a house that requires flood insurance" or say that it means you are planing for the house to fail. Yes, if there is an income disparity you should get a prenup.
 
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Ph4rmacistJ

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Giga said it well. Marriage already comes with a default prenup, half/half roughly. Getting a prenup is just taking action on how to redistribute the resources not dictated by state.

I know prenup is kinda like having one leg out the door already, but it's always good protection to have. I think people's attitudes are changing, especially as more women work, marriages don't last as long or succeed, it's good practice to have one.
This was pretty accurate, some may see it as already having one foot out of the door. Most people would rather not begin a marriage with a prenup mostly because of the fact that it's somewhat like starting your marriage on a bad note. However, it's true, nothing wrong with protecting your assets. If he truly values you, he wouldn't argue much about it either. Likewise, it kind of does seem like you're not convinced with the selection of your partner. This actually occurred in an episode of "Suits", here's the recap:

http://www.screenfad.com/suits/suits-season-5-episode-2-recap-compensation-39835
 
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because....the OP is a pharmacist...and is a female?

why not a male stripper? i mean, what is this, a pharmacy forum or something?
don't really give a **** what the OP is, a female pharmacist, a male pharmacist or a male stripper should all get a prenup if they make more money.
 

Mad Jack

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don't really give a **** what the OP is, a female pharmacist, a male pharmacist or a male stripper should all get a prenup if they make more money.
So aren't you saying literally everyone should get a prenup unless the marriage consists of two people making the exact same amount of money?
 

BenJammin

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This is going to be controversial but there is an opinion floating out there that alimony is essentially payment for past use of a vagina. Very controversial.
 
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lord999

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This is going to be controversial but there is an opinion floating out there that alimony is essentially payment for past use of a vagina. Very controversial.
http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/arz7&div=11&id=&page=

Not joking, it's actually a lot more grim than that. It was only recently in our grandparents' lifetimes that chattel marriages finally became defunct (as in the wife was treated as chattel property and not as a human being). The consideration was that unlike 'things', dumping your spouse basically created a welfare case on the state's hands as divorce was tantamount to poverty. Alimony was to ensure that the guy's inconsiderate decision (and it was morally and legally thought as such if not worse as divorce laws weren't enacted or didn't loosen until the 1960s for most states outside NV) wouldn't put the community with a new liability that wasn't the community's fault.

Pre-nups are a way of dealing with the chattel issues without getting into the emotional ones if you keep it that way (the idea that a pre-nup can write in non-property matters like "I can spend 5 days a year with a mistress" is not enforceable and can be overruled as the legal term anticipatory or unconscionable in most states despite what you read about celebrities).

Isn't it a better age that we live in such that the reason why you are with someone is because you want to be and that you don't have to be (and to not be treated under laws for chattel property and like a real human being if things don't go well)? Alimony is an imperfect way, but it does help mitigate those separation costs which otherwise penalizes all of us.
 

kidsaremypassion

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Very split on the idea of pre-nups. I consider myself Christian and theologically I don't believe in the concept.
Realistically, in some situations, it may be necessary. But if you're truly considering it, then something may be awry with the dynamics of the relationship. Regardless of whether the person with the significantly higher income is the man or woman, the idea of an individual essentially mooching off another and claiming what they did not bust their ass for as theirs is irritating in the least. After all, people aren't marrying for money right, or are they?
Honestly, it sounds like you are really uncomfortable with the idea of a non working husband, and I would be as well.
I realize we are all eschewing traditional gender roles where women are increasingly taking on "breadwinner" positions, especially as we take on certain specialties and professions. But most men have an inherent desire to provide and bring something to the table financially.
In all honesty,how does this man expect to save for retirement? Fund his future child's education? Love doesn't pay the bills.
I wouldn't be comfortable with this scenario, and I don't judge you for clearly questioning this.
 
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kidsaremypassion

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prenup for a pharmacist? gtfo...yall act like you're making millions or some sht.
It may not be millions but if your spouse is making 45k, ot nothing at all, and you are making 120 to 150k.....that's a significant income differential that does need to be addressed and accounted for, especially if the woman is the breadwinner.
This same breadwinner wife will be tasked with figuring out the in and outs of FMLA, breastfeeding said child and pumping in between clients/patients. Essentially motherhood and providerhood wrapped in one. I applaud her for stepping back and truly analyzing how this will pan out for her in the long run.
 

BMBiology

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A divorce is not just about dividing assets, it is also about future spousal support. Yup, you have to financially support your spouse until he/she is married again.


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BidingMyTime

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Obviously you 2 need to agree on this before marriage, but if you agree with him being a stay-at-home dad (thereby giving up years out of the workforce which will hurt his hirability and peak earning potential), why shouldn't you have to pay him something for that, if worse comes to worse and the marriage fails? I'm not saying you shouldn't get a pre-nup, I'm just questioning your reasons for wanting to get one.