gasaddict54

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with the new OBama takeover of HC this may have been in my and my families best interest. Less time and less money spent on education PLUS we may be making within a few thousand of each other very soon. Will I regret this? (non sleeping resident my comrades)
 
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with the new OBama takeover of HC this might have been in my and my families best interest. Less time and less money spent on education PLUS we may be making within a few thousand of each other very soon. Will I regret this? (non sleeping resident my comrades)
A year ago, someone who has the credentials to go the Med school, and CHOOSING to become a CRNA rather than an anesthesiologist would bring chuckles from the gallery.

Your question today (Post HC-reform passage) is totally a valid one.
 

GoodmanBrown

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with the new OBama takeover of HC this might have been in my and my families best interest. Less time and less money spent on education PLUS we may be making within a few thousand of each other very soon. Will I regret this? (non sleeping resident my comrades)
No. Most of the bill is slowly enacted over the next 4 years. Get a crazy paying job, pay off your loans, save some money, and realize the sky isn't falling. You'll never earn less than a CRNA.
 

badgas

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with the new OBama takeover of HC this might have been in my and my families best interest. Less time and less money spent on education PLUS we may be making within a few thousand of each other very soon. Will I regret this? (non sleeping resident my comrades)
Premed obviously knows best. Who needs to listen the the attending anesthesiologist? Premed got an A in O.Chem so the sky isn't falling.
 

GoodmanBrown

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Premed obviously knows best. Who needs to listen the the attending anesthesiologist? Premed got an A in O.Chem so the sky isn't falling.
Most of my suggestions can be enacted within 1 to 2 years of you finishing residency. Don't know what CA you are, but that can't be that long, right? Will you be in PP land in 2-3 years?
 
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Sigh..

Anesthesiology will not die...

Man this board freaks out about so much stuff and it obviously impacts the decisions of high quality medical students who would like to go into this specialty but because of the continual doom and gloom and whining don't.

People have absolutely no idea what salaries will be like in 10 years from now, and absolutely no idea what CRNA's salaries will be.

CRNA's get paid 150-200k working 40 hours a week, not taking overnight call, not having ultimate responsibility, not working on complex medically challenging cases, not being the code doctor, etc. How many anesthesiologists do we have making 250-300k working 40 hrs/week, with no overnight call, etc? I'm going to guess and say none.

No wonder Anes is stuck in this perpetually intermediate competitive situation even though its' a fun specialty, when you're off you're off, has a very high salary, etc.

You don't see the Rads board freaking out like this one. No one on that board is thinking "woe is me, will computers read a majority of my films in the future with one radiologist overseeing multiple computers or will everything get outsourced to india?"

They don't perpetually freak out and have a pity party like this anesthesiology board does.
 

karizma098

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radiology also doesn't have a huge midlevel organization working around the clock to undermine their efforts.

trust me, if there were "certified radiology nurse specialists" that did what radiologists did ( or claimed to ) at half the cost, getting independent practice and in many cases closing in on similar compensation...claiming they are 'equal or better', etc ,etc, radiologists would be crapping their pants.

yes, a lot of talent has been shifted from anesthesiology bc of the CRNA talk and the reimbursement talk. in my class alone, i'd say 5 out of 10 people that were interested in anesthesiology backed off after they learned more about CRNA's, ACT type practices, etc, so on and so on. nobody wants to work their tail off , earn a doctorate, have 300k in debt, only to be undermined by a midlevel nurse telling them that they can do their job. no other field deals with this crap either.

no wonder ER usmle step 1 averages outranked anesthesia this year.
 

badgas

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radiology also doesn't have a huge midlevel organization working around the clock to undermine their efforts.

trust me, if there were "certified radiology nurse specialists" that did what radiologists did ( or claimed to ) at half the cost, getting independent practice and in many cases closing in on similar compensation...claiming they are 'equal or better', etc ,etc, radiologists would be crapping their pants.

yes, a lot of talent has been shifted from anesthesiology bc of the CRNA talk and the reimbursement talk. in my class alone, i'd say 5 out of 10 people that were interested in anesthesiology backed off after they learned more about CRNA's, ACT type practices, etc, so on and so on. nobody wants to work their tail off , earn a doctorate, have 300k in debt, only to be undermined by a midlevel nurse telling them that they can do their job. no other field deals with this crap either.

no wonder ER usmle step 1 averages outranked anesthesia this year.
Bingo
 

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p.s., now with the "DNAP" doctorate heading towards being required for CRNA's, their heads are going to go through the roof - if any of you havent, peruse the CRNA forums from time to time.

they are ecstatic about the DNAP. they see it as the best way to undermine the ASA - as the ASA's major argument is that we are "doctors" or have a "clinical doctorate", with a "DNAP" a crna will be able to call themselves "Dr. so and so"

i dont think any of them get it - but they actually believe that they will be clinical doctors with this 1-2 year online degree. it's pathetic. a CRNA told me to my face that post DNAP certification there will be absolutely 0 difference between him and an "MDA".

don't believe me? check this out

http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_search/physician/profiles/dr-md-reports/dr-judith-schmidt-crna-1dd10d45

you tell me. would you do it over again knowing ud have to deal with this?
i love anesthesia, but i didnt work this hard to have to fight a career long battle for my profession against a group of militant midlevels. :mad:

marginalizing the problem doesn't help it.
 

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As long and painful as the road to anesthesiologist has been (and with one more big round of abuse still pending on April 21st at 9 AM) ...

... I take some comfort in the fact that my duties have never, ever included responding to a code brown in a 65 BMI'er.

That's something we'll always have over our midlevel colleagues, whatever silly online degrees they tack on behind their names. :)


More seriously though - it's been said here often, but anesthesiology is not a good field for people whose egos need reaffirmation from other people. If it's not enough for you to do your job well, quietly guiding the occasional patient past some morbidity or mortality no one else even noticed, and then go home to a life outside the hospital, well, make sure you keep your own key to the Bicitra fridge.
 

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any reason you guys don't do a pseudo-strike type deal and just stop doing elective cases for a few days? take the trauma call, etc but forgo any of the non-emergent work. it seems like it might be time to take a few plays out of the teamster playbook. just my humble opinion as an outside observer with no ponies in the race.
 

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being the uninformed medical student, may i ask - what is happening on april 21?
is that when this is signed into law?
 

keeping-it-real

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As long and painful as the road to anesthesiologist has been (and with one more big round of abuse still pending on April 21st at 9 AM) ...

... I take some comfort in the fact that my duties have never, ever included responding to a code brown in a 65 BMI'er.

That's something we'll always have over our midlevel colleagues, whatever silly online degrees they tack on behind their names. :)


More seriously though - it's been said here often, but anesthesiology is not a good field for people whose egos need reaffirmation from other people. If it's not enough for you to do your job well, quietly guiding the occasional patient past some morbidity or mortality no one else even noticed, and then go home to a life outside the hospital, well, make sure you keep your own key to the Bicitra fridge.
I think you guys can only be quiet for so long. Also, while they were cleaning up the code browns, they were making $60K/year in the ICU while we were paying $30K/year in tuition. Not trying to troll your guys forum, but the out of control CRNAs are more or less a threat to all fields of medicine. I'm not sure if being part of the silent majority is the best approach to solving this problem.
 

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being the uninformed medical student, may i ask - what is happening on april 21?
I'm going to wake up after a crappy night's sleep in my $295/night hotel room at the Ritz-Carlton in Atlanta, take the elevator to another floor, and get pimped by oral board examiners.

And then I'm going to leave town as quickly as possible.
 

Chloroform4Life

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Am I horrible for wishing that less people apply to gas next year so that I have a better chance of getting in?
 

karizma098

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haha, no chloroform, not horrible. i wish the same thing, just 2 years down the road.

as for the medicare paycuts...word on the street is theres a very slim chance those will actually go through ? i heard congress will actually probably vote on a seperate bill to avoid those cuts altogether in the future? am i off here.

as for the oral boards, good luck! better that you spend the night in the ritz than in the motel 8 ( which is where we might be staying 10 years down the road. ;) )
 

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with the new OBama takeover of HC this might have been in my and my families best interest. Less time and less money spent on education PLUS we may be making within a few thousand of each other very soon. Will I regret this? (non sleeping resident my comrades)
If you really have to ask yourself whether or not you should have been a nurse, then you clearly should not be a physician. People need to stop freaking out. Anesthesiology will not die. The specialty is just as strong and highly regarded in European countries with nationalized health care as it currently is in the US. We will always be making more than PCPs b/c we are a surgical specialty. Any specialty that does procedures will be profitable. CRNAs will never be able to compete with us. And if our salaries decrease, so will the salaries of CRNAs. If we are getting paid 150s, they will be getting paid what an ICU nurse makes. Everything will be relative. All the Anesthesiologists that I met while abroad were still getting paid more than most surgeons, lived in amazing houses, had summer homes and were able to send their kids to private schools. All this while working in a ****ty nationalized health care system. Hours were limited to 8hrs a day and no elective cases were started after 2pm. Any cases going past 4pm were taken over by the night shift. Both surgeons and anesthesiologists would change over shifts. All the MDs in the hospital worked on this system. Guess what, people got frustrated on wait times and within the past couple of years private hospitals/surgery centers opened up and people paid extra to have their own surgeon and procedures done within a timely manner while those that were on the public plan were just a another number on the wait list.

btw, I blame all my liberal friends for voting for Obama just cause it sounded like a "good idea." Now all my med school friends are pissed off and hate the fact that they voted for him.
 

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I'm going to wake up after a crappy night's sleep in my $295/night hotel room at the Ritz-Carlton in Atlanta, take the elevator to another floor, and get pimped by oral board examiners.

And then I'm going to leave town as quickly as possible.
Sounds like my plan
 

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As long and painful as the road to anesthesiologist has been (and with one more big round of abuse still pending on April 21st at 9 AM) ...

... I take some comfort in the fact that my duties have never, ever included responding to a code brown in a 65 BMI'er.

That's something we'll always have over our midlevel colleagues, whatever silly online degrees they tack on behind their names. :)


More seriously though - it's been said here often, but anesthesiology is not a good field for people whose egos need reaffirmation from other people. If it's not enough for you to do your job well, quietly guiding the occasional patient past some morbidity or mortality no one else even noticed, and then go home to a life outside the hospital, well, make sure you keep your own key to the Bicitra fridge.
pgg, I have a feeling you'll be fine for your orals. You have a good way of explaining the didactic stuff in your posts to the residents/med students. I did absolutely nothing the night before the exam. During the exam, I was nervous sitting outside, but once it started the time just flew by. If you've done enough practice exams you'll get into the rhythm of answering questions, and the next thing you know you'll be hearing the knock on the door. Afterwards you'll kick yourself for answering the way you did. Just say to yourself once you walk out of the last case that you did your best.

The nice part for me was that the exam was in NY, where I lived at the time. So all I had to do was take the subway. I can't imagine flying and crossing time zones. You have my sympathies.

My first set of examiners smiled warmly when I exited the room, and seemed friendly. My second set of examiners were all business. I couldn't tell at all what they thought of my responses. But I still passed. So don't worry about how they react/don't react to you.

Good luck. If I remember, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you on the 21st.
 

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I'm going to wake up after a crappy night's sleep in my $295/night hotel room at the Ritz-Carlton in Atlanta, take the elevator to another floor, and get pimped by oral board examiners.

And then I'm going to leave town as quickly as possible.
Good luck man!!!:luck:
 

karizma098

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Sorry to derail the thread, but I didn't realize this info had been released from the NRMP. Where might one find this?
not on the nrmp site yet, for 09 it was 222 average for ER vs 224 for anesthesia, word on the street is it's 225 for ER this year and 222 for anesthesia. i'm guessing data will be available soon.
 

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btw, I blame all my liberal friends for voting for Obama just cause it sounded like a "good idea." Now all my med school friends are pissed off and hate the fact that they voted for him.
At least your med school friends have realized they made a mistake. Mine are still in denial, eagerly awaiting the "change.":rolleyes:

Only time will tell, but I agree that when MD/DO salaries decline, CRNA salaries will do so accordingly. I definitely don't see MD/DO's making $300K+ 10 years from now especially if private insurance companies start to die off due to the reform and if more of the population relies on medicare/medicaid. Making $150-225K doesn't deter me from wanting to apply to anesthesiology this year, but perhaps my perspective will change when I start practicing 5+ years from now.
 

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At least your med school friends have realized they made a mistake. Mine are still in denial, eagerly awaiting the "change.":rolleyes:

Only time will tell, but I agree that when MD/DO salaries decline, CRNA salaries will do so accordingly. I definitely don't see MD/DO's making $300K+ 10 years from now especially if private insurance companies start to die off due to the reform and if more of the population relies on medicare/medicaid. Making $150-225K doesn't deter me from wanting to apply to anesthesiology this year, but perhaps my perspective will change when I start practicing 5+ years from now.
150? you're kiddn right? i can tell you have never been up at 3am (your 20th hour awake and working) managing a ruptured AAA. it's your 9th case of the day. during case number 3 you almost crapped your pants cause the completely healthy toddler laryngospasm'd and you couldn't break it and had to give IM sux. case number 5 was an interscalene block (who's lawyer will call you in 3 months as patient has residual paresthesias). case number 7 was emergently intubating a bleeding HIV/hep C geyser in the unit. oh and this is during residency when you're making less per hour than a janitor.

so, when YOU turn 31 and get your first real job and have a kid and 2k a month in loan payments and your takehome amounts to 30 bucks an hour to do the ABOVE, you may want to reconsider this profession. if you LOVE doing the above, then go for it.
 

karizma098

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At least your med school friends have realized they made a mistake. Mine are still in denial, eagerly awaiting the "change.":rolleyes:

Only time will tell, but I agree that when MD/DO salaries decline, CRNA salaries will do so accordingly. I definitely don't see MD/DO's making $300K+ 10 years from now especially if private insurance companies start to die off due to the reform and if more of the population relies on medicare/medicaid. Making $150-225K doesn't deter me from wanting to apply to anesthesiology this year, but perhaps my perspective will change when I start practicing 5+ years from now.
150? no way. dont mean to sound like an ungrateful prick....but a few hundred thousand dollars of loans and my youth and 20's behind me, i'd like to make 225 bare minimum. 300k will be doable, it will just be much harder to make.
 

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150? you're kiddn right? i can tell you have never been up at 3am (your 20th hour awake and working) managing a ruptured AAA. it's your 9th case of the day. during case number 3 you almost crapped your pants cause the completely healthy toddler laryngospasm'd and you couldn't break it and had to give IM sux. case number 5 was an interscalene block (who's lawyer will call you in 3 months as patient has residual paresthesias). case number 7 was emergently intubating a bleeding HIV/hep C geyser in the unit. oh and this is during residency when you're making less per hour than a janitor.

so, when YOU turn 31 and get your first real job and have a kid and 2k a month in loan payments and your takehome amounts to 30 bucks an hour to do the ABOVE, you may want to reconsider this profession. if you LOVE doing the above, then go for it.
I honestly hope it doesn't get that bad, but 150K is a figure I have seen thrown around here on the board. I haven't encountered all of the cases you listed above, especially all in the same day, but I have assisted some attendings during some very stressful cases some of which didn't end until 3:30 AM and I had been up since 5:30 AM the previous morning (AAA's, ischemic bowel resections, eclampsia, etc on very sick/unstable patients).

Granted, I have no idea what it is like to have all of the responsibility on my shoulders and I have no doubt that it is extremely stressful. But I can say that I truly do enjoy Anesthesiology from what I have seen thus far. I've been fortunate that some of my attendings have given me the opportunity to run cases from beginning to end on my own under their direct supervision, which has given me a broader perception of the field (as compared to the common scenario of inbubating, then bouncing to the next room for another intubation). In other words, I'm fully aware that Anesthesiologists don't sit around drinking coffee and reading Forbes.

I don't want to kid myself and be set up for disappointment by going into Anesthesiology thinking I'll be making >$250K someday. I'm going into this with low expectations for salary because to be quite honest, it is difficult if not impossible to predict salaries in any field with the current reform in place (with the exception of cash only practices). If future salaries continue to be as high as they are currently, then I will consider it a bonus for going into a field I enjoy.

I'm a student member of the ASA and the AOCA and I plan on contributing generously to the ASAPAC starting in residency (as generously as my measly janitor salary will allow;)), so I'm not going to be complacent and let salaries continue to slide and allow CRNA's to encroach with a smile on my face. I will work as hard as I can to protect my future profession from midlevel threats and declining reimbursement. However, I simply can't go into Anesthesiology with high expectations for salary because a lot can change in 5 years and I don't want to become bitter and end up loathing the field because I went into it with a high salary expectation.
 

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150? no way. dont mean to sound like an ungrateful prick....but a few hundred thousand dollars of loans and my youth and 20's behind me, i'd like to make 225 bare minimum. 300k will be doable, it will just be much harder to make.
I agree, 150 is an exaggeration. I'd definitely like to make over 200K as well.

But lets pretend that the reform kills salaries in medicine and most specialties end up making between 150K and 225K. Which field would you choose?

It's not an option for us to say we'd quit and do something outside of medicine because like you mentioned, we have an enormous debt load.

While this scenario will most likely never happen, I used it to try and gauge if I was choosing to go into Anesthesiology for the right reasons by attempting to take money out of the equation.
 

karizma098

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I agree, 150 is an exaggeration. I'd definitely like to make over 200K as well.

But lets pretend that the reform kills salaries in medicine and most specialties end up making between 150K and 225K. Which field would you choose?

It's not an option for us to say we'd quit and do something outside of medicine because like you mentioned, we have an enormous debt load.

While this scenario will most likely never happen, I used it to try and gauge if I was choosing to go into Anesthesiology for the right reasons by attempting to take money out of the equation.

if it ever did get that bad ( i'm guessing 200k or high 100's will be the worst bottom basement for anesthesia...if the public option thing ends up happening, etc etc etc ).
worst case, 15 years down i'm assuming we'd end up in a government employee type system. if that's the case, i'd probably not bother working past 4 or 5 pm 4-5 days a week. this is what physicians in 'single payer' systems or 'government hospitals' end up doing. salaried employees will always be less productive, no incentive to work harder.

in the extra time i had, i'd work on either getting into administration/consulting/teaching to fill up time and make a little extra dough. maybe moonlight on a few weekends, write a book, invest in property, who knows.

as physicians we are generally smart people. if our salaries get rocked out that bad, we will find ways to compensate.

i know plenty of family practice docs who only net ~ 170k from their practice but make an extra 50k or so from moonlighting and teaching. 225 still isn't a terrible lifestyle. :thumbup:

as far as field is concerned, i'd still go for gas, no question.

ps. - ur mentality about going into it not expecting to make more than 250 is a good one. my old man came into the field when it was getting slaughtered in the mid 90's. he had already completed his medicine residency and dropped a pulmonary critical care fellowship to come in as a 1st year anesthesia resident. he had no expectations to make more than 120k / year. and for a few years, that's what he made...in the meantime, he worked hard, invested, saved, and things worked out really well.
 

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If you ignore medical school time and debt and just consider residency, by the time I'm finished I'll be 'owed' about 17000 hours of back pay -since we accept being grossly underpaid as residents with the promise of the difference being made up for later in life.
You need a pretty decent salary to make up for time served.
 

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Yes, you should have went to CRNA school; I wish I had.

wow , this is the kind of response I hoped to NOT receive. I hoped to get cursed to even think of something like this. Care to elaborate on your thoughts?
 

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wow , this is the kind of response I hoped to NOT receive. I hoped to get cursed to even think of something like this. Care to elaborate on your thoughts?
The quick math: CRNA - graduate high school at 18, 4 year nursing school - 22, work for a year in the ICU making $50-75k - 23. Do the nearly 3 year CRNA program making you 26. Spend the rest of your career making > $150k (usually) working 40 hours a week, no call, no nights, no weekends, no responsibility, no malpractice insurance.

Anesthesiologist - graduate high school at 18, 4 year college - 22, 4 year medical school - 26, 4 year anesthesiology internship/residency - 30. Spend the rest of your career struggling to earn $225-$400K working more than 40 hours a week, call, nights, weekends, stress, burden of responsibility, constant threat of malpractice, diminishing reimbursement and new health care legislation.

That was just a fast and dirty, tip of the iceberg explanation my friend.
 

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The quick math: CRNA - graduate high school at 18, 4 year nursing school - 22, work for a year in the ICU making $50-75k - 23. Do the nearly 3 year CRNA program making you 26. Spend the rest of your career making > $150k (usually) working 40 hours a week, no call, no nights, no weekends, no responsibility, no malpractice insurance.

Anesthesiologist - graduate high school at 18, 4 year college - 22, 4 year medical school - 26, 4 year anesthesiology internship/residency - 30. Spend the rest of your career struggling to earn $225-$400K working more than 40 hours a week, call, nights, weekends, stress, burden of responsibility, constant threat of malpractice, diminishing reimbursement and new health care legislation.

That was just a fast and dirty, tip of the iceberg explanation my friend.
These days more med school applicants are coming with graduate degrees to make themselves more competitive- MS Engineering, MBA, MPH, etc. So add on another 2 years after college, making you 24 by the time you COMMENCE med school + $50,000 to $60,000 worth of extra debt.

Plus an additional year or two of research in med school +/- PhD, some do MD/MBA or MD/MPH tracks, prolonging med school to anywhere from 5 to 8 years + $80,000 extra debt (unless you go the mudphud route).

Will make you early 30s at the most when you do start residency. Late twenties if you're lucky.

Residency + Fellowship in Anesth = 5 yrs

by the time you get to attg, we're talking 35-37y/o for some. plus an additional $100,000- $140,000 debt ABOVE your med school compadres.

:eek:
 

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For what it's worth, there is a sense of accomplishment that comes with becoming a physician. Also, MD/DO's will always do better than mid-levels.

Now, the financial arguement many are making is credible, when you look at opportunity cost etc.
 

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For what it's worth, there is a sense of accomplishment that comes with becoming a physician.
Lots of physicians will say they wouldn't be as satisfied with the incomplete, inferior level of knowledge and training that midlevels have. There's a reward in being the expert ... even if the midlevels don't always acknowledge the difference or even realize it exists.
 

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if you want to be a nurse, sure, go ahead. if you want to be a physician then no.
 

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if you want to be a nurse, sure, go ahead. if you want to be a physician then no.
:laugh:

MDs a-plenty come to the end of this very long road with a lot of cynicism, burnout and disillusionment. For many, it's like the day you find out Santa isn't real or the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is really, well, a fantasy.
 

PedsAnesMD

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The quick math: CRNA - graduate high school at 18, 4 year nursing school - 22, work for a year in the ICU making $50-75k - 23. Do the nearly 3 year CRNA program making you 26. Spend the rest of your career making > $150k (usually) working 40 hours a week, no call, no nights, no weekends, no responsibility, no malpractice insurance.

Anesthesiologist - graduate high school at 18, 4 year college - 22, 4 year medical school - 26, 4 year anesthesiology internship/residency - 30. Spend the rest of your career struggling to earn $225-$400K working more than 40 hours a week, call, nights, weekends, stress, burden of responsibility, constant threat of malpractice, diminishing reimbursement and new health care legislation.

That was just a fast and dirty, tip of the iceberg explanation my friend.
A lot of CRNA's are working heavy overtimes (usually at a 2nd job where they are paid a higher hourly rate) and getting a lot more than 150K a year. I know of a dual CRNA couple who just bought a 1.2 million dollar house here in a nice neighborhood Orange County. Another experienced CRNA I knew was pulling in over 300K a year working 2 jobs and with overtime. So CRNA does seem to be the way to go if you are going the nursing route.. for me.. I'd still be a MDA if I had to do it all over again even with all of the badness that it comes along with.
 

BLADEMDA

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Crna Vs. Md/do
I thought some of you would find this post funny. Others may be angry at me or just plain mad. I am posting it to make a point as to where things stand today and point out why you must FIGHT NOW to stop the example below from becoming even worse.


Let's say you are a smart, young, College Freshman or high school senior looking to decide between CRNA and MD/DO Anesthesiology. You want to work in a private practice setting in your home State or similar location.
Which career path makes the best fiscal sense over thirty years?


1. College- If you decide to become a CRNA then community college resulting in a two year degree R.N. is sufficient. You get good grades and then work in the E.R., PACU or ICU while "bridging" for your BSN. This means you save a lot of money by avoiding the expensive private college. In addition, you avoid the "gunner" pre-med students and those tough classes.
You are able to earn $50,000 per year as a two year R.N. while you bridge to the BSN. You take classes all year long and the bridge takes you 24 months.
Thus, four years after high school you have a BSN AND enough experience to apply to CRNA school. You got good grades (weaker competition and classes) and easily scored high enough on the GRE for admission. You get accepted to your STATE CRNA school.

Money saved/earned by going CRNA route: $$$


2. Now, you are in CRNA school. The CRNA with DNAP at your CRNA school is 36 months long. When you graduate you will be DR. CRNA and can expect to earn a very good living right away. Since CRNA school is 3 years and Medical School is 4 years you save ONE FULL YEAR of tuition, food, books, housing.

Money saved/earned by going CRNA route: $


3. Here comes the real money maker for you. By going the CRNA route instead of Medical School and Residency you save 5 years. During these 5 years (while your friend finishes Medical School and Residency) you decide to work 65 hours a week. After 5 years you will reduce your hours to 50.
You are young and need the money plus experience. You land a job in a busy private practice Group. You can expect to earn $270,000 per year plus FULL BENEFIT PACKAGE ($40,000 retirement package) for those hours. Thus, you are earning $310,000 per year for 5 years while your friend works similar hours and earns $50,000 per year( for four years). This means you earn $1.35 million dollars before your friend gets to be an attending.

Money saved/earned by going CRNA route: $$$$$$


During your 5 year stint working like an animal the AANA has been pulverizing the ASA politically. CRNA with DNAP now gets 75% of the pay level (average private pactice income) of the average Board Certified Anesthesiologist. In addition, the AANA has secured NO RATIOS and many more CRNA 'rights' across the USA. Your friend, the board certified Anesthesiologist, is not happy about things but accepts the 25% difference in pay scale as "economic and political reality." Your friend says "it isn't about the money as much as it is about respect."

As a CRNA with DNAP you realize that while your friend went to the better college, Ivy league Medical School and then a top residency the route you chose was the better option. While it isn't all about the money, thinking about the AANA brings a smile to your face every time.

Blade
 

cfdavid

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Crna Vs. Md/do
I thought some of you would find this post funny. Others may be angry at me or just plain mad. I am posting it to make a point as to where things stand today and point out why you must FIGHT NOW to stop the example below from becoming even worse.


Let's say you are a smart, young, College Freshman or high school senior looking to decide between CRNA and MD/DO Anesthesiology. You want to work in a private practice setting in your home State or similar location.
Which career path makes the best fiscal sense over thirty years?


1. College- If you decide to become a CRNA then community college resulting in a two year degree R.N. is sufficient. You get good grades and then work in the E.R., PACU or ICU while "bridging" for your BSN. This means you save a lot of money by avoiding the expensive private college. In addition, you avoid the "gunner" pre-med students and those tough classes.
You are able to earn $50,000 per year as a two year R.N. while you bridge to the BSN. You take classes all year long and the bridge takes you 24 months.
Thus, four years after high school you have a BSN AND enough experience to apply to CRNA school. You got good grades (weaker competition and classes) and easily scored high enough on the GRE for admission. You get accepted to your STATE CRNA school.

Money saved/earned by going CRNA route: $$$


2. Now, you are in CRNA school. The CRNA with DNAP at your CRNA school is 36 months long. When you graduate you will be DR. CRNA and can expect to earn a very good living right away. Since CRNA school is 3 years and Medical School is 4 years you save ONE FULL YEAR of tuition, food, books, housing.

Money saved/earned by going CRNA route: $


3. Here comes the real money maker for you. By going the CRNA route instead of Medical School and Residency you save 5 years. During these 5 years (while your friend finishes Medical School and Residency) you decide to work 65 hours a week. After 5 years you will reduce your hours to 50.
You are young and need the money plus experience. You land a job in a busy private practice Group. You can expect to earn $270,000 per year plus FULL BENEFIT PACKAGE ($40,000 retirement package) for those hours. Thus, you are earning $310,000 per year for 5 years while your friend works similar hours and earns $50,000 per year( for four years). This means you earn $1.35 million dollars before your friend gets to be an attending.

Money saved/earned by going CRNA route: $$$$$$


During your 5 year stint working like an animal the AANA has been pulverizing the ASA politically. CRNA with DNAP now gets 75% of the pay level (average private pactice income) of the average Board Certified Anesthesiologist. In addition, the AANA has secured NO RATIOS and many more CRNA 'rights' across the USA. Your friend, the board certified Anesthesiologist, is not happy about things but accepts the 25% difference in pay scale as "economic and political reality." Your friend says "it isn't about the money as much as it is about respect."

As a CRNA with DNAP you realize that while your friend went to the better college, Ivy league Medical School and then a top residency the route you chose was the better option. While it isn't all about the money, thinking about the AANA brings a smile to your face every time.

Blade
for what it's worth, i just threw a couple bucks at the ASAPAC last night. not much, but something.....

cf
 

nolagas

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Aug 13, 2004
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Crna Vs. Md/do
I thought some of you would find this post funny. Others may be angry at me or just plain mad. I am posting it to make a point as to where things stand today and point out why you must FIGHT NOW to stop the example below from becoming even worse.


Let's say you are a smart, young, College Freshman or high school senior looking to decide between CRNA and MD/DO Anesthesiology. You want to work in a private practice setting in your home State or similar location.
Which career path makes the best fiscal sense over thirty years?


1. College- If you decide to become a CRNA then community college resulting in a two year degree R.N. is sufficient. You get good grades and then work in the E.R., PACU or ICU while "bridging" for your BSN. This means you save a lot of money by avoiding the expensive private college. In addition, you avoid the "gunner" pre-med students and those tough classes.
You are able to earn $50,000 per year as a two year R.N. while you bridge to the BSN. You take classes all year long and the bridge takes you 24 months.
Thus, four years after high school you have a BSN AND enough experience to apply to CRNA school. You got good grades (weaker competition and classes) and easily scored high enough on the GRE for admission. You get accepted to your STATE CRNA school.

Money saved/earned by going CRNA route: $$$


2. Now, you are in CRNA school. The CRNA with DNAP at your CRNA school is 36 months long. When you graduate you will be DR. CRNA and can expect to earn a very good living right away. Since CRNA school is 3 years and Medical School is 4 years you save ONE FULL YEAR of tuition, food, books, housing.

Money saved/earned by going CRNA route: $


3. Here comes the real money maker for you. By going the CRNA route instead of Medical School and Residency you save 5 years. During these 5 years (while your friend finishes Medical School and Residency) you decide to work 65 hours a week. After 5 years you will reduce your hours to 50.
You are young and need the money plus experience. You land a job in a busy private practice Group. You can expect to earn $270,000 per year plus FULL BENEFIT PACKAGE ($40,000 retirement package) for those hours. Thus, you are earning $310,000 per year for 5 years while your friend works similar hours and earns $50,000 per year( for four years). This means you earn $1.35 million dollars before your friend gets to be an attending.

Money saved/earned by going CRNA route: $$$$$$


During your 5 year stint working like an animal the AANA has been pulverizing the ASA politically. CRNA with DNAP now gets 75% of the pay level (average private pactice income) of the average Board Certified Anesthesiologist. In addition, the AANA has secured NO RATIOS and many more CRNA 'rights' across the USA. Your friend, the board certified Anesthesiologist, is not happy about things but accepts the 25% difference in pay scale as "economic and political reality." Your friend says "it isn't about the money as much as it is about respect."

As a CRNA with DNAP you realize that while your friend went to the better college, Ivy league Medical School and then a top residency the route you chose was the better option. While it isn't all about the money, thinking about the AANA brings a smile to your face every time.

Blade
It's hard to put a price on the knowledge in the back of your head that you are not a real doctor or on the suspicion that your high gpa in community college might not really mean that you were smart enough to have gotten into medical school if you had really wanted to. You know that the only time you were in school with the future MDs, in high school and maybe a few classes in college, they always did better than you. You turn into that MikeM douchebag and spend countless hours trying to talk about how you are just as good as a doctor but on your deathbed you still realize that you don't really know and you probably never would have made it as an MD, despite your years of protest to the contrary.

Priceless? $1.3million? maybe
 

veetz

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for what it's worth, i just threw a couple bucks at the ASAPAC last night. not much, but something.....

cf
That's worth a lot! As you become more immersed in anesthesia as a resident, try to encourage your fellow residents to make annual contributions to the ASAPAC.
 

cfdavid

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That's worth a lot! As you become more immersed in anesthesia as a resident, try to encourage your fellow residents to make annual contributions to the ASAPAC.
Will do for sure. Where I'm doing residency, the leadership HIGHLY encourages involvement and activism on behalf of the specialty. This group is committed.

Even 20-40 bucks can pay for envelopes and server fees etc. etc.