Blitz2006

10+ Year Member
Nov 20, 2006
1,586
381
Status (Visible)
Ok,

So I'm IMG here in the UK.

Will be graduating 2012, so can apply this Sept. for 2012 match for GSurg and IM. Will be taking USMLE Step 1 and 2 CK/CS in 2011.

My dilemma is if I should do this, or wait 1 year for 2013 match?

Reasons why I should wait 1 year:

-Get one year of internship under my belt, which may help my application
-Have a chance at H1b. Whereas next year I will be limited to J1 visa

However, these are reasons why I should apply this upcoming year:

-J1 visa is much easier to get, especially for GSurg categorical
- LORs from my electives which I will be doing in the U.S in 2011 will be "fresh"
- Will be a fresh graduate

Do you guys agree, what you think?

After reading the forums, I'm starting to think that H1b is out of reach and I should just gun for J1....
 

Winged Scapula

Cougariffic!
Staff member
Administrator
Volunteer Staff
Apr 9, 2000
39,956
18,681
forums.studentdoctor.net
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
Ok,

So I'm IMG here in the UK.

Will be graduating 2012, so can apply this Sept. for 2012 match for GSurg and IM. Will be taking USMLE Step 1 and 2 CK/CS in 2011.

My dilemma is if I should do this, or wait 1 year for 2013 match?

Reasons why I should wait 1 year:

-Get one year of internship under my belt, which may help my application
-Have a chance at H1b. Whereas next year I will be limited to J1 visa

I do not think a year of internship outside of the US adds anything significant to your application.

However, these are reasons why I should apply this upcoming year:

-J1 visa is much easier to get, especially for GSurg categorical
- LORs from my electives which I will be doing in the U.S in 2011 will be "fresh"
- Will be a fresh graduate

Do you guys agree, what you think?

After reading the forums, I'm starting to think that H1b is out of reach and I should just gun for J1....

I don't know much about visas, but agree that it is usually best to apply with fresh letters and as a fresh grad. Question: what is your actual graduation date? You cannot get ECFMG certified until you have the diploma - if you graduate after June, you will not receive the certificate in time to start residency (and remember some programs require you to be ready to start *before* July 1).

I'm not sure there is a best answer to your question about which is better except I have to wonder: if you do an internship at home are you then eligible for registration and to work there should you not be able to get a US residency?
 
About the Ads

Blitz2006

10+ Year Member
Nov 20, 2006
1,586
381
Status (Visible)
Thanks WS, helpful as always.

So doing a year of internship is a waste eh? In that case I'm all in for 2012 match.

I'm expected to graduate June, 2012. I thought that I could get ECFMG certified with Step 1 and Step 2 CK/CS, which I should have all 3 done by September, 2011.

What I heard is that my medical school can swing a special request to ECFMG, because I actually get my exam results early May, 2012, so they will make exception since I am IMG and give me diploma around May and to keep ECFMG happy. I'm not worried about that, cause I know a lot of guys (Canadians) go from Ireland to the U.S on J1, straight after graduation as well.

But yeh, my follow up question is: Would the extra year out of graduation actually be detrimental to my app? Will I actually have a much better chance of matching if I applied this upcoming year? I thought that maybe doing a year of internship will look good on CV, something I can put on my personal statement/talk about in my interview. But if you don't think thats the case....fair enough.

I didn't think 1 year out of Med school would be a big deal, but if you say so...then I'll definitly switch gears and apply this september. I guess it helps that I'm doing 4 months of electives in the U.S this summer (April-July), so my LORs will literally be hot off the press if I apply in September. Plus, we all know J1 is much easier to match than H1, so another motivation factor to just apply this upcoming Sept. I don't want to burn a year of internship, and still end up matching on J1 and not H1. That would be a waste of time.

Thx again :)

I do not think a year of internship outside of the US adds anything significant to your application.



I don't know much about visas, but agree that it is usually best to apply with fresh letters and as a fresh grad. Question: what is your actual graduation date? You cannot get ECFMG certified until you have the diploma - if you graduate after June, you will not receive the certificate in time to start residency (and remember some programs require you to be ready to start *before* July 1).

I'm not sure there is a best answer to your question about which is better except I have to wonder: if you do an internship at home are you then eligible for registration and to work there should you not be able to get a US residency?
 

Winged Scapula

Cougariffic!
Staff member
Administrator
Volunteer Staff
Apr 9, 2000
39,956
18,681
forums.studentdoctor.net
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
Thanks WS, helpful as always.

So doing a year of internship is a waste eh? In that case I'm all in for 2012 match.

I don't know that its a "waste" I just don't see it adding anything to your US application.

I'm expected to graduate June, 2012. I thought that I could get ECFMG certified with Step 1 and Step 2 CK/CS, which I should have all 3 done by September, 2011.

No, to be certified you have to have graduated and been awarded your final diploma. Taking all the Steps only put you in position to be *eligible* to be certified, not actually be certified. It is required that all Steps be done in time for submission of the Rank Order List. And bear in mind that some programs won't accept applications from those without the certificate in hand.

That is why I asked - if you graduate in June and then it takes them several weeks to get you your diploma, you won't be able to start on time. I don't know what the turn around time for ECFMG is now, but "back in the day" it was about 1 month if everything was in order, from submission of diploma to getting the ECFMG certificate. My program let me start with the ECFMG certificate # without having the actual piece of paper in hand...that will be program variable.


What I heard is that my medical school can swing a special request to ECFMG, because I actually get my exam results early May, 2012, so they will make exception since I am IMG and give me diploma around May and to keep ECFMG happy. I'm not worried about that, cause I know a lot of guys (Canadians) go from Ireland to the U.S on J1, straight after graduation as well.

That should be fine then.

But yeh, my follow up question is: Would the extra year out of graduation actually be detrimental to my app? Will I actually have a much better chance of matching if I applied this upcoming year? I thought that maybe doing a year of internship will look good on CV, something I can put on my personal statement/talk about in my interview. But if you don't think thats the case....fair enough.

I didn't think 1 year out of Med school would be a big deal, but if you say so...then I'll definitly switch gears and apply this september. I guess it helps that I'm doing 4 months of electives in the U.S this summer (April-July), so my LORs will literally be hot off the press if I apply in September. Plus, we all know J1 is much easier to match than H1, so another motivation factor to just apply this upcoming Sept. I don't want to burn a year of internship, and still end up matching on J1 and not H1. That would be a waste of time.

Thx again :)

Again, I don't think the year of internship adds anything to your application - after all, what is important to US faculty is training in the US. They *may* fear (and remember GS is conservative) that they will have to "train you all over" - this is a common concern about FMGs who are fully trained outside of the US - they tend not to understand the hierarchy, do not follow US standards of practice and tend to be difficult to retrain.

So I don't think it helps you at all and it might (very slightly, but possibly) hurt you. The year out is not a big deal - as long as there aren't any other red flags in your application.

The advantage to you of doing the internship year is to make it easier to stay in the UK should you have to/want to. I would not do it simply to get more training, to have something to talk about during interviews (I would think you already have plenty in terms of comparison of a national health system and what the US may/may not be heading towards).

An H1 is desirable but may not be obtainable. I would ask aPD if he thinks that is worth waiting for (we didn't have residents on visas so am not sure about the issues surrounding this factor).
 

Blitz2006

10+ Year Member
Nov 20, 2006
1,586
381
Status (Visible)
Thx for that detailed response.

Yeh, the ECFMG certification I'll get that sorted out. Will be some hassle but I believe its doable.

But with regards to the other issue, thanks for that input. I'll PM aPD and see what he has to say as well. I'm sure when I'm in the U.S next year I'll also talk to the PDs and get their 2 cents.

I guess 'waste' was a crude term, but I essentially want to settle down in the States. So from that perspective, doing an intern year isn't really beneficial for me. I just thought it might help for U.S apps with a year of experience...but I guess not, heh.

But I value your wisdom and you clearly know what you're talking about, so I guess I'll probably go all in next September. I didn't even realize that doing an intern year could be potentially a bit detrimental, very interesting.

Any other opinions would be appreciated!

BTW, you mention 'red flags', care to list a few major ones that I should make sure I avoid? I'm assuming you're talking about stuff like a failed USMLE, etc?


I don't know that its a "waste" I just don't see it adding anything to your US application.



No, to be certified you have to have graduated and been awarded your final diploma. Taking all the Steps only put you in position to be *eligible* to be certified, not actually be certified. It is required that all Steps be done in time for submission of the Rank Order List. And bear in mind that some programs won't accept applications from those without the certificate in hand.

That is why I asked - if you graduate in June and then it takes them several weeks to get you your diploma, you won't be able to start on time. I don't know what the turn around time for ECFMG is now, but "back in the day" it was about 1 month if everything was in order, from submission of diploma to getting the ECFMG certificate. My program let me start with the ECFMG certificate # without having the actual piece of paper in hand...that will be program variable.




That should be fine then.



Again, I don't think the year of internship adds anything to your application - after all, what is important to US faculty is training in the US. They *may* fear (and remember GS is conservative) that they will have to "train you all over" - this is a common concern about FMGs who are fully trained outside of the US - they tend not to understand the hierarchy, do not follow US standards of practice and tend to be difficult to retrain.

So I don't think it helps you at all and it might (very slightly, but possibly) hurt you. The year out is not a big deal - as long as there aren't any other red flags in your application.

The advantage to you of doing the internship year is to make it easier to stay in the UK should you have to/want to. I would not do it simply to get more training, to have something to talk about during interviews (I would think you already have plenty in terms of comparison of a national health system and what the US may/may not be heading towards).

An H1 is desirable but may not be obtainable. I would ask aPD if he thinks that is worth waiting for (we didn't have residents on visas so am not sure about the issues surrounding this factor).
 

Winged Scapula

Cougariffic!
Staff member
Administrator
Volunteer Staff
Apr 9, 2000
39,956
18,681
forums.studentdoctor.net
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
I guess 'waste' was a crude term, but I essentially want to settle down in the States. So from that perspective, doing an intern year isn't really beneficial for me. I just thought it might help for U.S apps with a year of experience...but I guess not, heh.

But I value your wisdom and you clearly know what you're talking about, so I guess I'll probably go all in next September. I didn't even realize that doing an intern year could be potentially a bit detrimental, very interesting.

Only my opinion of course, and it is more of an issue with fully trained consultants/attendings who come to the US.

The only benefit I could see (outside of making it easier to get registered in the UK) is the ability to obtain/strengthen any medical school weaknesses. I cannot speak for your program of course but a common refrain about FMGs is the lack of familiarity with procedural skills and "housekeeping" - ie, presenting patients, writing notes, orders, etc. I know my own program felt that a lot of the training was meant to wait until intern year when I knew that my US colleagues were doing these things as students. I believe we addressed this in a thread in the Clinical Rotations forum. Of course, these things are easily obtainable as an intern, so I wouldn't necessarily spend a year in the UK for that sole purpose.

Bottom line is that I can't see that it will help your US *application* and there are some potential drawbacks.

BTW, you mention 'red flags', care to list a few major ones that I should make sure I avoid? I'm assuming you're talking about stuff like a failed USMLE, etc?

Chiefly failed/repeat attempts on USMLEs
Failed coursework
Non-supportive/mediocre LORs
LORs/application or behavior which signals you are applying for multiple specialties (we've discussed this before)
Probationary status, etc. during medical school - especially if for Academic Dishonesty or Criminal Behavior
Drug/ETOH history
Anything that would make you ineligible for a US medical license
 

NotAProgDirector

Pastafarians Unite!
Staff member
Volunteer Staff
10+ Year Member
Oct 11, 2006
9,155
10,794
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
Agreed that a PGY-1 outside the US is unlikely to make a big difference, especially in GS. Training outside the US can be seen as a positive, apparently some IM/FM programs actually want to match interns who are basically already trained so they don't really have to teach anyone anything. But good programs aren't like that, and won't be excited about taking people with "too much" outside training. One year is not likely to make a difference either way. So I wouldn't do it to make your application "better"
 
About the Ads
This thread is more than 10 years old.

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. Your new thread title is very short, and likely is unhelpful.
  2. Your reply is very short and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  3. Your reply is very long and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  4. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
  5. Your message is mostly quotes or spoilers.
  6. Your reply has occurred very quickly after a previous reply and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  7. This thread is locked.