Should I be doing anything with my debt as a first year?

[exacto]

Just wondering if I should be doing anything pertaining to my ever increasing debt while I'm in my first year right now, besides living frugally?

What about second, third and fourth year for that matter? Is it worth to buy the white coat investor now?

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[Beargryllz]

2 room mates and learn how to cook

That's all you can do

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Just wondering if I should be doing anything pertaining to my ever increasing debt while I'm in my first year right now, besides living frugally?

What about second, third and fourth year for that matter? Is it worth to buy the white coat investor now?

Good thoughts, but in reality you need to ignore the debt for now and focus on doing well. Seriously, its the best thing you can do. Basically there is no way to cover medical school for most DO students who don't come from money other than military or other very specialty limiting scholarships. So in the vein of trying to control your outcomes as much as possible, make sure you pass (cause these loans will definately sink you if you don't), and just do as beargryllz already suggested. Otherwise don't worry about it.

I hate debt as much as anybody, but you know going into it that debt is what happens at DO schools.

 

[ortnakas]

Avoiding credit card debt.

Saving any “extra” loan money for boards and residency applications— it gets expensive fast.

 

[Nogain_onlybrain]

make sure you pass (cause these loans will definately sink you if you don't)

I don't know what happens to students who fail out with $80k+ in med school student loans. How do you even come back from that? Especially if all you have is a bio degree. The risk of med school in America is just too much. You can't even wipe out those loans from bankruptcy lol

 

[exacto]

I don't know what happens to students who fail out with $80k+ in med school student loans. How do you even come back from that? Especially if all you have is a bio degree. The risk of med school in America is just too much. You can't even wipe out those loans from bankruptcy lol

Luckily med schools will do everything they can to stop you from dropping out, but even so 80K is doable. Not fun, but workable.

Good thoughts, but in reality you need to ignore the debt for now and focus on doing well. Seriously, its the best thing you can do. Basically there is no way to cover medical school for most DO students who don't come from money other than military or other very specialty limiting scholarships. So in the vein of trying to control your outcomes as much as possible, make sure you pass (cause these loans will definately sink you if you don't), and just do as beargryllz already suggested. Otherwise don't worry about it.

I hate debt as much as anybody, but you know going into it that debt is what happens at DO schools.

Got it, Thanks. School is moving smoothly for me at least.

 

[pseud0]

use as little loan money as you possibly can. Keep track of how much you actually end up using year one, cut it back as much as you can the following years

if you're going to keep large amounts of cash laying around, leave it in a high interest savings account

use credit cards exclusively, PERIOD.
but be "like a smart person" and pay off the entire amount every month. You're doing it for the convenience, credit building, and most importantly the cash back. NOT to float debt and pay more interest.

Get 2 cards if you can: a general high cash back card like 1.5 percent and one of the 5 percent categorical cards (gas, groceries, rotating categories, etc)

 

[ILikeFood]

Went to Nova Southeastern University from 2009-2013
When I graduated medical school in 2013 my debt was $380,000
When I finished residency my debt was $490,000 including interest
I currently pull in ~$30,000 a month pre-tax. This translates to ~$17,500 post-tax in California for a single person, non-homeowner. I can deduct $2500/year in student loan interest
If do a federal payment 10 year plan: $4900/month. If 25 year plan: $3300/month. Refinancing to private would bring it to $2700/month over 25? years. Paying it off asap with no regard to any other life expenditures would take 3ish years.
If I do IBR and apply for loan forgiveness in 6 years, my loan balance will be in the $650k range, pinned on the hopes the government will forgive that amount.

I like my job. I like the status and pay my job provides. But boy do people/organizations make you pay for it. The boards cost thousands. The board prep cost thousands. The tuition yearly cost tens of thousands. Literally everyone at NSU was a dean or assistant dean, save for the secretaries. I'm not surprised some people turn into money-grubbing doctors, because the medical education system squeezes every dime out of them in financial aid or inexpensive labor (student rotations and residency) before they're finally able to earn a doctors salary. The years after training are spent taking back their dignity.

I think I spent many years telling people I wouldn't have done medical school if given the choice again. But from a financial standpoint, it was probably the best choice since I wasn't a math or computer whiz or a social butterfly/sales type. Day to day life seems less equal these days and at least there's the flexibility to have a good time once in awhile.

 

[Spectreman]

Went to Nova Southeastern University from 2009-2013
When I graduated medical school in 2013 my debt was $380,000
When I finished residency my debt was $490,000 including interest
I currently pull in ~$30,000 a month pre-tax. This translates to ~$17,500 post-tax in California for a single person, non-homeowner. I can deduct $2500/year in student loan interest
If do a federal payment 10 year plan: $4900/month. If 25 year plan: $3300/month. Refinancing to private would bring it to $2700/month over 25? years. Paying it off asap with no regard to any other life expenditures would take 3ish years.
If I do IBR and apply for loan forgiveness in 6 years, my loan balance will be in the $650k range, pinned on the hopes the government will forgive that amount.

I like my job. I like the status and pay my job provides. But boy do people/organizations make you pay for it. The boards cost thousands. The board prep cost thousands. The tuition yearly cost tens of thousands. Literally everyone at NSU was a dean or assistant dean, save for the secretaries. I'm not surprised some people turn into money-grubbing doctors, because the medical education system squeezes every dime out of them in financial aid or inexpensive labor (student rotations and residency) before they're finally able to earn a doctors salary. The years after training are spent taking back their dignity.

I think I spent many years telling people I wouldn't have done medical school if given the choice again. But from a financial standpoint, it was probably the best choice since I wasn't a math or computer whiz or a social butterfly/sales type. Day to day life seems less equal these days and at least there's the flexibility to have a good time once in awhile.

Crunching those same numbers as an NSU grad going into family med pulling just under $200k/year, pre taxes. You’re looking at ~$7k/month take home, throw down ~$3k/month toward loans and suddenly you’re living on less than $50k/year after investing 10-11 years of your life toward your career. And I know MANY NSU students who did the MBS program for 2 years before starting. They’ll be pushing $600k in debt by the time they’re done.

My point is that DO schools trying to funnel their students into the lowest paying specialties while sucking us dry like a dying vampire can take a hike. If DO schools want to fill the primary care gap they should cost half that of private MD schools.

 

[Neopolymath]

Crunching those same numbers as an NSU grad going into family med pulling just under $200k/year, pre taxes. You’re looking at ~$7k/month take home, throw down ~$3k/month toward loans and suddenly you’re living on less than $50k/year after investing 10-11 years of your life toward your career. And I know MANY NSU students who did the MBS program for 2 years before starting. They’ll be pushing $600k in debt by the time they’re done.

My point is that DO schools trying to funnel their students into the lowest paying specialties while sucking us dry like a dying vampire can take a hike. If DO schools want to fill the primary care gap they should cost half that of private MD schools.

Schools/admin repeatedly deny this, but it's quite clear that most schools have policies and decision making that follows the "it wouldn't be bad if they all ended up in primary care" not "We should help our students achieve their ambitions." DO schools are full of people like this because it fits their agenda to fill the world with DOs and the best way to do that is via primary care. They care about the mission and not the individual. The decision making I have seen at my school and heard about at others is very much like lies of omission. Not a slap in the face like a true lie but something that hurts you nonetheless. It doesn't help that DO schools historically have mostly FM types in positions of power that don't understand (like most boomers...) that doing FM today isn't like 30 years ago when they did it. It's an awful deal and their ambivalence doesn't help.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Went to Nova Southeastern University from 2009-2013
When I graduated medical school in 2013 my debt was $380,000
When I finished residency my debt was $490,000 including interest
I currently pull in ~$30,000 a month pre-tax. This translates to ~$17,500 post-tax in California for a single person, non-homeowner. I can deduct $2500/year in student loan interest
If do a federal payment 10 year plan: $4900/month. If 25 year plan: $3300/month. Refinancing to private would bring it to $2700/month over 25? years. Paying it off asap with no regard to any other life expenditures would take 3ish years.
If I do IBR and apply for loan forgiveness in 6 years, my loan balance will be in the $650k range, pinned on the hopes the government will forgive that amount.

I like my job. I like the status and pay my job provides. But boy do people/organizations make you pay for it. The boards cost thousands. The board prep cost thousands. The tuition yearly cost tens of thousands. Literally everyone at NSU was a dean or assistant dean, save for the secretaries. I'm not surprised some people turn into money-grubbing doctors, because the medical education system squeezes every dime out of them in financial aid or inexpensive labor (student rotations and residency) before they're finally able to earn a doctors salary. The years after training are spent taking back their dignity.

I think I spent many years telling people I wouldn't have done medical school if given the choice again. But from a financial standpoint, it was probably the best choice since I wasn't a math or computer whiz or a social butterfly/sales type. Day to day life seems less equal these days and at least there's the flexibility to have a good time once in awhile.

So you make 30k and only take home 17.5k?

I hope you that not all of the 12.5k doesn’t go to taxes and that you are putting some of it towards retirement

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Crunching those same numbers as an NSU grad going into family med pulling just under $200k/year, pre taxes. You’re looking at ~$7k/month take home, throw down ~$3k/month toward loans and suddenly you’re living on less than $50k/year after investing 10-11 years of your life toward your career. And I know MANY NSU students who did the MBS program for 2 years before starting. They’ll be pushing $600k in debt by the time they’re done.

My point is that DO schools trying to funnel their students into the lowest paying specialties while sucking us dry like a dying vampire can take a hike. If DO schools want to fill the primary care gap they should cost half that of private MD schools.

How do you go from 200k/year to 7k/month after taxes?

 

[Spectreman]

How do you go from 200k/year to 7k/month after taxes?

I said just under $200k, so at $185k (still more than a new peds doc is pulling on average) I guess the take home is more like $10k after taxes. Play around with those numbers for someone who’s $550k in debt after an SMP and med school at a place like Nova or Midwestern.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I said just under $200k, so at $185k (still more than a new peds doc is pulling on average) I guess the take home is more like $10k after taxes. Play around with those numbers for someone who’s $550k in debt after an SMP and med school at a place like Nova or Midwestern.

I'm not trying to pick on you or anything, but there's a huge difference between saying 185k/year -> 10k a month and 200k/year -> 7k a month.

Yes, debt is daunting. I'm one of the people who's graduating with the most amount of loans (~500k). This will balloon to 600k after a 4-year residency. If I play my cards right (continue working residency hours while maintaining to live on residency-sized wage), I should be able to payoff my loans in 5 years while maximizing my savings.

I said this many times. No doctor, private practice or academia, should accept a salary below 200k.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

New peds making 185? Ya maybe doing strictly outpatient with no call and no weekends or living in LA or NYC. You should look at the mgma data my friend.

Yeah. I know that there are many pediatricians that make pennies but I also know just as many that make 250k+, some close to to 500K (those live in needy suburbs).

Don't sell yourself short. Know your value!

 

[hallowmann]

Yeah. I know that there are many pediatricians that make pennies but I also know just as many that make 250k+, some close to to 500K (those live in needy suburbs).

Don't sell yourself short. Know your value!

Don't forget that a ton of Peds docs work part time or at least less than 40 hrs a wk. Even $185k for a 30-32 hr/wk outpatient job like a bunch of Peds docs I know is pretty sweet.

I was about to say the same thing about the $200k -> $7k/mo. Didn't make any sense. Even at a high estimate of 40% lost to taxes/SS its $10k/mo. Also $50k/yr take home after paying loans is very different from $50k/yr before taxes and loans.

 

[ILikeFood]

Went to Nova Southeastern University from 2009-2013
When I graduated medical school in 2013 my debt was $380,000
When I finished residency my debt was $490,000 including interest
I currently pull in ~$30,000 a month pre-tax. This translates to ~$17,500 post-tax in California for a single person, non-homeowner. I can deduct $2500/year in student loan interest
If do a federal payment 10 year plan: $4900/month. If 25 year plan: $3300/month. Refinancing to private would bring it to $2700/month over 25? years. Paying it off asap with no regard to any other life expenditures would take 3ish years.
If I do IBR and apply for loan forgiveness in 6 years, my loan balance will be in the $650k range, pinned on the hopes the government will forgive that amount.

I like my job. I like the status and pay my job provides. But boy do people/organizations make you pay for it. The boards cost thousands. The board prep cost thousands. The tuition yearly cost tens of thousands. Literally everyone at NSU was a dean or assistant dean, save for the secretaries. I'm not surprised some people turn into money-grubbing doctors, because the medical education system squeezes every dime out of them in financial aid or inexpensive labor (student rotations and residency) before they're finally able to earn a doctors salary. The years after training are spent taking back their dignity.

I think I spent many years telling people I wouldn't have done medical school if given the choice again. But from a financial standpoint, it was probably the best choice since I wasn't a math or computer whiz or a social butterfly/sales type. Day to day life seems less equal these days and at least there's the flexibility to have a good time once in awhile.

Update:
Student debt is now $440k
Monthly income is now $32k pre-tax, which is $19k after all deductions for me.
Turns out I cannot deduct student loan interest since my income is too high
I now have 5 years left on PSLF

 

[Patrick Bateman's Brother]

- Buy Whitecoat investor.
- Budget hard af
- sell drugs?

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Update:
Student debt is now $440k
Monthly income is now $32k pre-tax, which is $19k after all deductions for me.
Turns out I cannot deduct student loan interest since my income is too high
I now have 5 years left on PSLF

Do your deductions include retirement savings? If so, how much?

I’m tryibg to understand the amount of taxes you pay on your gross income

 

[alprazoslam]

I said just under $200k, so at $185k (still more than a new peds doc is pulling on average) I guess the take home is more like $10k after taxes. Play around with those numbers for someone who’s $550k in debt after an SMP and med school at a place like Nova or Midwestern.

Crunching those same numbers as an NSU grad going into family med pulling just under $200k/year, pre taxes. You’re looking at ~$7k/month take home, throw down ~$3k/month toward loans and suddenly you’re living on less than $50k/year after investing 10-11 years of your life toward your career. And I know MANY NSU students who did the MBS program for 2 years before starting. They’ll be pushing $600k in debt by the time they’re done.

My point is that DO schools trying to funnel their students into the lowest paying specialties while sucking us dry like a dying vampire can take a hike. If DO schools want to fill the primary care gap they should cost half that of private MD schools.

Lol I hope you use an accountant during tax season if you think anybody pays 65-70% tax rate on 200k

 

[Spectreman]

Lol I hope you use an accountant during tax season if you think anybody pays 65-70% tax rate on 200k

K

 

[ILikeFood]

Do your deductions include retirement savings? If so, how much?

I’m tryibg to understand the amount of taxes you pay on your gross income

2k/month for retirement. Otherwise I'm unmarried, don't own a house, don't donate to charity.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Lol I hope you use an accountant during tax season if you think anybody pays 65-70% tax rate on 200k

It’s possible that your take home is about 70% if you live in Cali, including about 9% state tax, 5-12% social security and Medicare, and about 15-19% federal rate.

 

[alprazoslam]

It’s possible that your take home is about 70% if you live in Cali, including about 9% state tax, 5-12% social security and Medicare, and about 15-19% federal rate.

Oh by his post he made it sound like more than half was taken by taxes. IE 70% tax rate. Not just taking Home 70% LD pretax income

 

[ILikeFood]

Update:
Student debt is now $440k
Monthly income is now $32k pre-tax, which is $19k after all deductions for me.
Turns out I cannot deduct student loan interest since my income is too high
I now have 5 years left on PSLF

Student debt is now $400k
I think I'll pay it down another 60k then start saving for a downpayment on a house

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Student debt is now $400k
I think I'll pay it down another 60k then start saving for a downpayment on a house

You do realize PSLF turned down 99% of people applying for loan forgiveness last year. Please Google it.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

You do realize PSLF turned down 99% of people applying for loan forgiveness last year. Please Google it.

You do realize that the overwhelming majority of those didn’t qualify for the forgiveness in the first place. Please google it.

 

[humblethinker]

Just wondering if I should be doing anything pertaining to my ever increasing debt while I'm in my first year right now, besides living frugally?

What about second, third and fourth year for that matter? Is it worth to buy the white coat investor now?

calculate your daily interest accrual on your loans, and, if you have good time management and can balance your studies with it, start a side gig while you are in school with a goal to accumulate income=interest so that when you graduate you start paying the principal down from day one