Should I bother to do a CT Surg Sub-I?

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UW-er

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Hi everyone!

I just made my M4 schedule, shooting to match into a surgical specialty. Gen surg is currently the front-runner. Reading about different specialties, I think I may enjoy ct surg. I have almost no exposure to it (watched one CABG on surg), so I'm doing a sub-I in September-October. I have a SICU sub-I 2 blocks prior to that. However, part of me worries if I'm wasting my time. I've got a Step 1 of 232, honors in surg, med and psych (high pass everything else), and several research projects, mostly surgical in nature, but nothing involving chest surgery. Overall, I feel I'd be a decent applicant to most gen surg programs, but as far as I've heard the I-6 CTS programs are pretty damn competitive, and it feels fairly late in the game to suddenly shoot for that.

So my question is this: should I consider dropping my fall cts sub-I in favor of another one that maybe serves more realistic goals (i.e. another gen surg Sub-I)? Thanks for thoughts and inputs!

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Take a look @ the Charting Outcomes information and then you will get a realistic picture.

Actually it isn't late in the game to be switching, unless you are looking at a super competitive specialty which requires lots of research (I don't have a clue if CT surgery is one of those). For everything else, it isn't too late till you hit May or so (or whenever you are past the point at which getting specialty-specific letters becomes difficult to do prior to ERAS submission in mid-September - typically requires time to have developed some sort of relationship w/ physicians).

You should ask in the Surgery forum whether a sub-I is recommended for most general surgery applicants. For internal medicine, the prevailing viewpoint seems to be to avoid doing away sub-Is because they can usually hurt more than help you.
 
Hi everyone!

I just made my M4 schedule, shooting to match into a surgical specialty. Gen surg is currently the front-runner. Reading about different specialties, I think I may enjoy ct surg. I have almost no exposure to it (watched one CABG on surg), so I'm doing a sub-I in September-October. I have a SICU sub-I 2 blocks prior to that. However, part of me worries if I'm wasting my time. I've got a Step 1 of 232, honors in surg, med and psych (high pass everything else), and several research projects, mostly surgical in nature, but nothing involving chest surgery. Overall, I feel I'd be a decent applicant to most gen surg programs, but as far as I've heard the I-6 CTS programs are pretty damn competitive, and it feels fairly late in the game to suddenly shoot for that.

So my question is this: should I consider dropping my fall cts sub-I in favor of another one that maybe serves more realistic goals (i.e. another gen surg Sub-I)? Thanks for thoughts and inputs!

At my school at least, CT surgery is a very enjoyable rotation with amazing faculty, cool cases, and plenty of OR time for little scut, so I would recommend it to anyone applying to surgery. However, I would recommend against even considering integrated CT surg. It is an extremely competitive specialty to apply to directly out of med school, but the CT surgery fellowship is one of the least competitive after gen surg. I've been told by faculty that this is because graduating gen surg residents are much more sensitive to all of the talk about how miserable the CT surgery market is than are med students. You probably already know that CT surgeons have less work because stenting has replaced CABG in many cases, other than for 3-vessel disease. I don't imagine the trend of CT surgery losing ground to cardiology reversing itself anytime soon, since cardiologists are now doing more and more structural stuff intravascularly. Things may get better for CT surgery in the future, but doing a gen surg residency before making the final decision to lock yourself into CT surg seems like a smarter way to go.
 
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Hi everyone!

I just made my M4 schedule, shooting to match into a surgical specialty. Gen surg is currently the front-runner. Reading about different specialties, I think I may enjoy ct surg. I have almost no exposure to it (watched one CABG on surg), so I'm doing a sub-I in September-October. I have a SICU sub-I 2 blocks prior to that. However, part of me worries if I'm wasting my time. I've got a Step 1 of 232, honors in surg, med and psych (high pass everything else), and several research projects, mostly surgical in nature, but nothing involving chest surgery. Overall, I feel I'd be a decent applicant to most gen surg programs, but as far as I've heard the I-6 CTS programs are pretty damn competitive, and it feels fairly late in the game to suddenly shoot for that.

So my question is this: should I consider dropping my fall cts sub-I in favor of another one that maybe serves more realistic goals (i.e. another gen surg Sub-I)? Thanks for thoughts and inputs!
If you think you may be interested in cardiothoracic, do the sub I in it. (Typically the sub I is either in thoracic or cardiac, not Ct in my experience, btw). It may be too late to do a sub I in the fall and then apply for integrated if you decide you really like it because those programs look for long term interest as one of the most important factors, but you could maybe apply for a few integrated programs in addition to gen surg come application time. Or you could make sure you apply to programs with 4+3 options into Ct fellowships in the gen surg match. At the very least, if you like Ct you can let programs match results into Ct guide your applications and rank list.

I would not take the posters in this thread too seriously regarding cts job market. There have been several threads in the surgery subforum about how Ct people are clinically busy and the job market is good and getting better, I would look there for more reliable information.
 
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So my question is this: should I consider dropping my fall cts sub-I in favor of another one that maybe serves more realistic goals (i.e. another gen surg Sub-I)?

A CTS subI won't help your application at all - it won't be enough for I6 and GS won't care about it. Do it if you're interested in CTS and you want to learn more about the field. Don't do it if you think that your time could be better spent in a GS subI/you need another GS letter/etc.

Actually it isn't late in the game to be switching, unless you are looking at a super competitive specialty which requires lots of research (I don't have a clue if CT surgery is one of those).

It is too late for I6 (if you're planning on matching a year from now) and I6 is a super competitive specialty that requires a lot of research. Ironically I made the decision around this time in my M3 year to go all in for I6. I ended up realizing that I needed to take a research year, so I took a year off after M3 year and matched I6 after that.

It is an extremely competitive specialty to apply to directly out of med school, but the CT surgery fellowship is one of the least competitive after gen surg. I've been told by faculty that this is because graduating gen surg residents are much more sensitive to all of the talk about how miserable the CT surgery market is than are med students. You probably already know that CT surgeons have less work because stenting has replaced CABG in many cases, other than for 3-vessel disease. I don't imagine the trend of CT surgery losing ground to cardiology reversing itself anytime soon, since cardiologists are now doing more and more structural stuff intravascularly.

Disclaimer: I'm a current I6 resident. This is not true on many levels. First, CTS fellowships after GS were not competitive 5-10 years ago. I think CTS went through what Rads is going through now where there was an over expansion of training slots plus the decline (to some degree) in volume due to the proliferation PCI and TAVR meant that there was a period of time where the field was saturated. That has since corrected itself and now there is a shortage of surgeons. A lot of the old guard is retiring and there are fewer graduates. It's to the point where our graduating fellows this year are getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-7 offers both PP, aciprivate, and academic.

This is reflected in this year's CTS fellowship match where 100% of programs filled and the match rate was 73% (http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/2016-Thoracic-Surgery-Match-Results-Statistics.pdf). I know a few of the people who matched and they all commented on what a bloodbath this year's match was with a lot of excellent candidates falling far down their rank lists or going unmatched.

As far as the CAD and structural heart disease market, the practice patterns are certainly changing, and I don't think there will be all that many isolated AVRs left in 10-20 years (although I would never get a TAVR if I was low-mod risk, but that's a different story). That said, there are still huge growth options out there for surgeons who are willing to branch out beyond isolated valves and CABGs. The aortic stent graft market is growing rapidly and it will grow even more with the Mona LSA trials, etc. And as far as CABG goes, the pendulum is starting to swing back towards CABG and away from PCI (something most cardiologists won't tell you: for non-ACS patients, PCI has 0 survival benefit. CABG does). I think this is only going to expand with the proliferation of minimally invasive and off-pump CABG. Honestly, if I had an isolated pLAD lesion, I would think long and hard about a mini LIMA-LAD over a stent, and I think things are going to continue to expand in that direction.

And I haven't even started about the demographic trends that are going to be strongly in our favor going forward. Or thoracic, which is as wide open a job market as you'll find.

In short: there are plenty of reasons not to do cardiac surgery, but the job market isn't one of them.
 
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So my question is this: should I consider dropping my fall cts sub-I in favor of another one that maybe serves more realistic goals (i.e. another gen surg Sub-I)? Thanks for thoughts and inputs!

I would stick with the sub-I since you are genuinely interested in CT surgery.

Just make sure the LOR you get from the rotation is from someone with a big name.
Name of person writing your LOR > Location or specialty of your sub-I.

Lots of smart posts ahead of mine. CT surgery fellowship after gen surg is not hard to get into, however LOCATION of CT surg fellowship can be competitive. With your stats, I would apply gen surg and decide during residency.
 
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