Should I choose to go to allopathic or osteopathic medical school?

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abdrew

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I am entirely in love with the idea of becoming a doctor some day. I want to be the physician who stays with you from the "womb to the tomb" as is said- (but hopefully not the tomb, of course). I want to help facilitate the healing process and help others become better healers for themselves and their families, but I am hung up on whether it would be best to practice as an osteopathic or allopathic doctor. I am attracted to the holistic side of osteopathy, but I know as an MD I could practice similarly. I just don't know if I want to endure the heirarchial system of allopathic medicine...because I think they way they train their doctors and even treat eachother competition-wise goes against what I believe makes for a good doctor. BUT- osteopathic doctors are still much less respected than allopathic ones, and that would make it difficult for me in the work place no matter what. Anyone have any thoughts about this?

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I am entirely in love with the idea of becoming a doctor some day. I want to be the physician who stays with you from the "womb to the tomb" as is said- (but hopefully not the tomb, of course). I want to help facilitate the healing process and help others become better healers for themselves and their families, but I am hung up on whether it would be best to practice as an osteopathic or allopathic doctor. I am attracted to the holistic side of osteopathy, but I know as an MD I could practice similarly. I just don't know if I want to endure the heirarchial system of allopathic medicine...because I think they way they train their doctors and even treat eachother competition-wise goes against what I believe makes for a good doctor. BUT- osteopathic doctors are still much less respected than allopathic ones, and that would make it difficult for me in the work place no matter what. Anyone have any thoughts about this?


Go allopathic. Better career opportunities, more respect. And if you REALLY want to learn OMM, you can take a class on it at a later date, or just make it up as you go along.
 
Read all the posts on the residency forums from DO's who want MD residency spots.
 
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I am entirely in love with the idea of becoming a doctor some day. I want to be the physician who stays with you from the "womb to the tomb" as is said- (but hopefully not the tomb, of course). I want to help facilitate the healing process and help others become better healers for themselves and their families, but I am hung up on whether it would be best to practice as an osteopathic or allopathic doctor. I am attracted to the holistic side of osteopathy, but I know as an MD I could practice similarly. I just don't know if I want to endure the heirarchial system of allopathic medicine...because I think they way they train their doctors and even treat eachother competition-wise goes against what I believe makes for a good doctor. BUT- osteopathic doctors are still much less respected than allopathic ones, and that would make it difficult for me in the work place no matter what. Anyone have any thoughts about this?

Heirachial system of allopathic medicine? What exactly are you refering to? Residency? If so, it's the same for DO's and MD's no matter where you do your residency. You need to be a bit more critical of your source(s) on this one my friend.

Osteopathic doctors are still much less respected than allopathic ones? Really? That's news to me. Is there a preference for MD's in certain fields and residency programs? Sure. Absolutely. But to say DO's are "much less respected" is a bit of a stretch.

Based on some of your comments it sounds like you may not have sufficient clinical exposure yet. I'd suggest you shadow some docs (MD and DO). Read up as much as you can about osteopathic medicine. You will change your mind very quickly!

G'luck.
 
Heirachial system of allopathic medicine? What exactly are you refering to? Residency? If so, it's the same for DO's and MD's no matter where you do your residency. You need to be a bit more critical of your source(s) on this one my friend.

Osteopathic doctors are still much less respected than allopathic ones? Really? That's news to me. Is there a preference for MD's in certain fields and residency programs? Sure. Absolutely. But to say DO's are "much less respected" is a bit of a stretch.

Based on some of your comments it sounds like you may not have sufficient clinical exposure yet. I'd suggest you shadow some docs (MD and DO). Read up as much as you can about osteopathic medicine. You will change your mind very quickly!

G'luck.

I hate to say this, because I don't personally care about MD vs. DO, but it depends on what you mean by respect. The general public (who cares) doesn't generally know what a DO is. Maybe that means less respect. Sadly, with the way that some of these new DO schools are popping up around the country (without continuing to expand their own residency numbers), I am starting to have less respect for the leaders of the profession. I wonder how residency program directors will respond to this trend.

Now, someone will probably respond something about all the primary care type residency spots that are left unfilled. That would be a decent answer if these schools were really geared toward putting out PC docs, but I think thats only lipservice. I know someone who is a first year at a brand new DO school who says how a lot of his classmates are gunning for radiology, rad onc, dermatology, etc.

Anyways, I don't want to start the MD vs. DO war, because that is a ridiculous argument, just wanted to chime in. BTW, I think that some of the DO schools are very fine schools (PCOM, CCOM, NYCOM, etc), but the AOA needs to clamp down in its quality control department.
 
Osteopathic doctors are still much less respected than allopathic ones? Really? That's news to me. Is there a preference for MD's in certain fields and residency programs? Sure. Absolutely. But to say DO's are "much less respected" is a bit of a stretch.

I am entirely in love with the idea of becoming a doctor some day. I want to be the physician who stays with you from the "womb to the tomb" as is said- (but hopefully not the tomb, of course). I want to help facilitate the healing process and help others become better healers for themselves and their families, but I am hung up on whether it would be best to practice as an osteopathic or allopathic doctor.


MDs and DOs are equally well respected by their colleagues. However, even at places where the MD/DO mix is 50/50 or better skewed toward the DO side, I see DOs (and MDs for them) having to answer to patients and family members "Doctor, what is a DO?". Our osteopathic colleagues deserve equal standing and do have it, but the reality is, there will be additional defending to do secondary to laymen ignorance. As long as you keep this in mind, apply to both sides. The training is comparable.
 
I've been on a few sub-I's at MD programs where the DO students were treated like crap. Even if they said "but I chose to go to a DO school over an MD school," no one really believed them. Needless to say, at the end of the rotation, their grades were less than stellar. There will always be that bias in some peoples' minds. On the flip side, I've never once heard of someone feeling the need to justify going to an MD school over a DO school. Read into it however you want to.
 
Have you gotten into both yet? It really isn't that big of an issue until then.
 
I am entirely in love with the idea of becoming a doctor some day. I want to be the physician who stays with you from the "womb to the tomb" as is said- (but hopefully not the tomb, of course). I want to help facilitate the healing process and help others become better healers for themselves and their families, but I am hung up on whether it would be best to practice as an osteopathic or allopathic doctor. I am attracted to the holistic side of osteopathy, but I know as an MD I could practice similarly. I just don't know if I want to endure the heirarchial system of allopathic medicine...because I think they way they train their doctors and even treat eachother competition-wise goes against what I believe makes for a good doctor. BUT- osteopathic doctors are still much less respected than allopathic ones, and that would make it difficult for me in the work place no matter what. Anyone have any thoughts about this?

You've got a lot to learn.
 
Allo. Can people please stop asking this question?
 
Ha, I might be a little more disillusioned about the general nature of health care training than I should be. Good point that no matter which route I take, it will be challenging... I like challenges.
 
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I'm not going to start a DO vs MD argument here. Nothing is more annoying on SDN.

The anecdotal stories of DO students being "treated like crap" is just that- ANECDOTAL. I once heard of MD students who got treated like crap- it was called Ob/Gyn rotation.

OP, welcome to SDN. I just realized you're a newbie. Please do a search about these topics next time as they seem to stir needless controversy. It's a shame. Really.
 
I applied and was accepted to both paths, and for me it's a pretty easy choice: allopathic.
Reasoning:
  • The AOA leadership for DOs seems screwy (for profit med school in the US, really?)
  • I don't buy cranial osteopathy and don't want to bother learning and being tested on it
  • I'd likely never use OMM in my practice
  • I want to do research in and out of med school
  • I'd likely be applying for allopathic residency programs anyway. So I don't see the point of going the DO route, only to switch to an allopathic residency, which would make things considerably more difficult.
  • If I want to practice in area that is not heavily populated by DOs, I don't want to have to go through the bs of advertising as Dr. Fisko (?), and hiding my initials because I want to avoid having my patients think I'm a) a doctor of orthopedics b) an optometrist or c) someone who couldn't get into MD schools.
Those are my (flawed) reasonings. With that said, I in no way view DOs as inferior. I actually like the fact that osteopathic schools seem more friendly/less competitive than that of most MD schools, which is one of the reasons I applied to one. Also, I have a lot of friends who go to MSUCOM and they're bright people and are going make great doctors. It's just not for me. GL in your decision.
 
I am entirely in love with the idea of becoming a doctor some day. I want to be the physician who stays with you from the "womb to the tomb" as is said- (but hopefully not the tomb, of course). I want to help facilitate the healing process and help others become better healers for themselves and their families, but I am hung up on whether it would be best to practice as an osteopathic or allopathic doctor. I am attracted to the holistic side of osteopathy, but I know as an MD I could practice similarly. I just don't know if I want to endure the heirarchial system of allopathic medicine...because I think they way they train their doctors and even treat eachother competition-wise goes against what I believe makes for a good doctor. BUT- osteopathic doctors are still much less respected than allopathic ones, and that would make it difficult for me in the work place no matter what. Anyone have any thoughts about this?

If allopathic is heirarchial, then wut makes you say osteopathic are not heirachial. after all its the exact same thing and exact same work settings with exact same specialties and exact same responsibilities and exact same pay. I am sure there are DO neurosurgeons that look down on MD/DO family doctors. Iam also sure that there are MD dermatologists who look down on MD/DO internal meds. I am sure some cheif residents look down upon other residents. I am some Harvard students looks down upon an Albany college of medicine student.

Also, you said DO are still much less respected. That is a very bold statement, considering you are not a medical doctor yet, so how woudl you know? This idea mainly exists in some pre-med forums and arises from ignorance and lack of education among some people. Don't let pre-med forums decide your life. All you need to do is respect yourself and respect others and if someone thinks your MD or DO is less prestigous, then so what? Do you not have respect for yourself that you need approval from others? I say, talk to a real MD or DO about this and I am sure they will tell you there is no difference, a medical doctor is a medical doctor.
 
There is a regionalism to osteopathic medicine. If you practice in one of the regions where it is well known (PA for example) you'll have no issues. You might have a little resistance elsewhere.

Now, we got our eyes on this thread, keep it professional and informational, non-inflammatory.
 
  • I'd likely be applying for allopathic residency programs anyway. So I don't see the point of going the DO route, only to switch to an allopathic residency, which would make things considerably more difficult.
What does this mean? Are you just talking about the trends in residencies, where some are typically filled by MDs and others (family practice I guess) are filled by DOs? Technically either one can do any residency, correct? And social bias aside, your training as a DO or MD wouldn't affect your ability to do well in residency, right?
 
the sad truth is I really want to D.O. education, and got accepted a really good D.O. school. but I went M.D. because the opportunities that are available to M.D.s after they graduate are simply more. especially since I want to do academics.

just sayin'
 
the sad truth is I really want to D.O. education, and got accepted a really good D.O. school. but I went M.D. because the opportunities that are available to M.D.s after they graduate are simply more. especially since I want to do academics.

just sayin'

Um, ok thanks?
 
Is is why I wish there was a medical school ranking that used both DO and MD schools together
 
[/LIST] What does this mean? Are you just talking about the trends in residencies, where some are typically filled by MDs and others (family practice I guess) are filled by DOs? Technically either one can do any residency, correct? And social bias aside, your training as a DO or MD wouldn't affect your ability to do well in residency, right?

If a DO wants to do an MD residency, he/she will have to take two sets of boards (comlex and usmle step 1). This is itself makes it more difficult for a DO to do an allopathic residency because it's simply more work and a more complicated route. However, it can provide more opportunities for the person and is a matter of personal choice.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure MD's are not allowed to enter osteopathic residencies.

Your training will have an effect on how you do in residency, but the effect is dependent upon your own work ethic and knowledge base. Whether you were trained at an allopathic or osteopathic medical school is irrelevant.
 
If a DO wants to do an MD residency, he/she will have to take two sets of boards (comlex and usmle step 1). This is itself makes it more difficult for a DO to do an allopathic residency because it's simply more work and a more complicated route. However, it can provide more opportunities for the person and is a matter of personal choice.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure MD's are not allowed to enter osteopathic residencies.

Your training will have an effect on how you do in residency, but the effect is dependent upon your own work ethic and knowledge base. Whether you were trained at an allopathic or osteopathic medical school is irrelevant.

yes this is true, if you look at some of the first threads to ever come up on SDN (1999) they talk about the same thing. MD=DO and DO=MD. The only people that care are pre meds
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure MD's are not allowed to enter osteopathic residencies.

i don't think they can. i have never heard of one that wanted to, but i have heard of D.O.s trying to get M.D. residencies.

at the end of the day you are going to have to work hard, no matter what school you go to or what letters eventually appear at the end of your name. and you will still be able to do "doctor-stuff". lol.
 
it don't matter. You're a doctor either way.
 
I always wonder where people find posts from two years ago.
 
Jesus Christ people ... it's two years old and the topic itself is even older and more annoying.
 
The only people that care are pre meds

says the guy with the 2.89 GPA...lettuce be reality here. Premeds care, residency program directors care (to an extent), and the general public doesn't even know what a DO is (a lot of you guys probably didn't either until you came to SDN)

It's funny when other pre-meds say things like "the only people that care are pre-meds" as if you're one step above the rest...
 
Old post can be cool, like the one I dug up today from 1999 and it was a question of where he will be in 10 years!
 
says the guy with the 2.89 GPA...lettuce be reality here. Premeds care, residency program directors care (to an extent), and the general public doesn't even know what a DO is (a lot of you guys probably didn't either until you came to SDN)

It's funny when other pre-meds say things like "the only people that care are pre-meds" as if you're one step above the rest...

No, it's to imply that pre-meds are more naive than all the rest.
 
says the guy with the 2.89 GPA...lettuce be reality here. Premeds care, residency program directors care (to an extent), and the general public doesn't even know what a DO is (a lot of you guys probably didn't either until you came to SDN)

It's funny when other pre-meds say things like "the only people that care are pre-meds" as if you're one step above the rest...



And to think I thought if somebody is near death they would say thanks
but no thanks doc your a DO I can only be treated by a real doctor. But if I ever tweak my back I will be right back so you can do OMM on me.
 
says the guy with the 2.89 GPA...lettuce be reality here. Premeds care, residency program directors care (to an extent), and the general public doesn't even know what a DO is (a lot of you guys probably didn't either until you came to SDN)

It's funny when other pre-meds say things like "the only people that care are pre-meds" as if you're one step above the rest...

So, in general, no one knows what a DO is ... but they will care??? Gotcha.
 
Some of the responses in this thread are bothering me ... so I wanted to lay down some knowledge:

The idea of patients not "respecting" DOs or the DO limiting your career options, etc, is completely false. Patients see doctors based on two things: referrals, and word of mouth. If you're a DO who is good ... you will see plenty of both. Also, try to keep some perspective here. Think of the slim amount of people in this country who successfully graduate college let alone move on to doctorate level education LET ALONE medical doctorate education. If you think that every plumber and Mcworker is going to some how pass judgment on a DO for being a DO ... well then I'd reevaluate one's reasons for going into this. Another piece of perspective here ... spend like two hours in any ER in the country and tell me how high the average person's respect is for doctors in general (MD or DO). I think you'll find that most people look at doctors as overpaid, lawsuit targets who aren't as smart as their WebMD iphone app.

Also, with regard to PDs not respecting DOs ... go look at some of the 2010 DO match lists. Multiple ACGME Rad Onc matches, ACGME derm matches (my favorite is one from AZCOM at Mayo), etc, etc. DOs match quite well into the ACGME world. NOW, of course they don't match as well as US MDs ... but keep in mind how hard it is to match ACGME ROAD specialties in general and that no matter how beautiful of a snowflake you think you are ... statistically, you won't make it - even from a US MD school. Go read some of the stories of not-matching in the derm threads. Recently read one where someone with perfect stats and 11 interviews (from a US MD school) didn't match. ALSO, remember that there are AOA sponsored residencies in every field that only DOs are allowed to apply to.

Going to a DO school is a good option and will provide one with a world of opportunities. I won't deny some of the administrative issues (expansion, not enough residency spots, etc), but people coming from these schools are doing quite well ... in the ACGME and AOA world. Additionally, 99% of DOs are identical to MDs in practice and I can't even explain the number of residents who I've heard diffuse the "what's a DO" idea by stating they've explained it maybe 2-3 times in a span of years. With issues like medicare cuts, potential for a lot more government control, mid-level encroachment, etc, foolish pre-medical students would be wise to look at the MD/DO relationship as that of physicians in general and focus on the big picture (who do supply about 99% of the individuals who care about the difference).
 
I am entirely in love with the idea of becoming a doctor some day. I want to be the physician who stays with you from the "womb to the tomb" as is said- (but hopefully not the tomb, of course). I want to help facilitate the healing process and help others become better healers for themselves and their families, but I am hung up on whether it would be best to practice as an osteopathic or allopathic doctor. I am attracted to the holistic side of osteopathy, but I know as an MD I could practice similarly. I just don't know if I want to endure the heirarchial system of allopathic medicine...because I think they way they train their doctors and even treat eachother competition-wise goes against what I believe makes for a good doctor. BUT- osteopathic doctors are still much less respected than allopathic ones, and that would make it difficult for me in the work place no matter what. Anyone have any thoughts about this?

If you are accepted to both, MD for the many reasons mentioned above. DO is a good backup though.
 
If a DO wants to do an MD residency, he/she will have to take two sets of boards (comlex and usmle step 1).

This is not true. Some MD residencies prefer USMLE scores, but many DOs get MD residencies (even in competitive specialties) with only COMLEX scores.
 
One thing to consider is that medical schools are expanding and there will be more competition for what looks to be a static number of residency spots. I have no idea what happens when the situation of having not enough slots for too many AMGs arrives. I ASSUME that better-qualified DOs will get into a residency before lesser-qualified MDs, but it's really an uncertainty...down the road. If you're applying next year, it's not going to matter.
 
New round of applicants...same old argument. Now that all the incoming MS1s have moved into the allo/osteo student forums you have the newbs coming in and spreading BS again. Oh well.
 
How do people like you make it through the interview process?

Let me guess...he/she will make a terrible doctor?

Get in line with reality man. You act like a majority of people apply DO only, regardless of their stats. The fact of the matter is that DO IS a backup. You don't see people with 3.5+ GPAs/30+ MCATs applying to only DO schools, get real. We all know you're a crusader for the DO new world order, but c'mon man...
 
Let me guess...he/she will make a terrible doctor?

Get in line with reality man. You act like a majority of people apply DO only, regardless of their stats. The fact of the matter is that DO IS a backup. You don't see people with 3.5+ GPAs/30+ MCATs applying to only DO schools, get real. We all know you're a crusader for the DO new world order, but c'mon man...

Eh.. I think at this point most DO schools aren't really back ups. Average's for DO schools are pretty much high 3.5/27? I mean personally if a DO school was next door. It wouldn't matter if it wasn't a MD school. I'd be a lot happier going to the DO school next door.
Overgeneralization is a popular error in thinking people make. Try avoiding it.
 
Let me guess...he/she will make a terrible doctor?

Get in line with reality man. You act like a majority of people apply DO only, regardless of their stats. The fact of the matter is that DO IS a backup. You don't see people with 3.5+ GPAs/30+ MCATs applying to only DO schools, get real. We all know you're a crusader for the DO new world order, but c'mon man...

No, she'll probably be a perfectly proficient doctor, and that really has nothing to do with the fact that I cannot imagine that sort of attitude not reflecting poorly in an interview.

Please explain to me how "DO is a backup" is a fact??? I'd really like to know. Additionally, I think you should know that I have the '3.5/30+' and will be attending a DO school next year. Additionally, I've never advocated applying DO only ... I've always told people to apply both and pick a school based on logical factors - cost, location, rotation opportunities, etc. If the school best suited for you is an MD school. God bless. Furthermore, I openly addressed some of the pros and cons in an earlier post. The FACT of the matter is that nothing you, or any other mis-informed pre-med, spew is fact at all ... it's pure, pointless conjecture based on stuff you read on THIS site.

Listen, I honest to god have no problem with people who say "I wanted to go MD." That's fine. If you want that ... go for it. However, when horribly misinformed pre-meds come on here and repeat the same drivel without any basis - DO is backup only, you can't get into X residency, if you have Y stats you should go to Z school - is when I come in and act like the "new world crusader." If you want to stick to the facts ... I'm fine with that. But if you want to recycle the same old, tired, incorrect statements and ignorant attitude (all behind a blanket of internet anonymity), expect people with knowledge and experience to tell you to zip it.

EDIT: I just read through some of your post history and saw two things: 1. You seem to have a history of DO bashing 2. I think you may have gone to my same undergrad. Both confirm that I don't want to have this debate with you ... enjoy life. Lol.
 
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Eh.. I think at this point most DO schools aren't really back ups. Average's for DO schools are pretty much high 3.5/27? I mean personally if a DO school was next door. It wouldn't matter if it wasn't a MD school. I'd be a lot happier going to the DO school next door.
Overgeneralization is a popular error in thinking people make. Try avoiding it.

Location is one of the bigger factors as you mentioned. It's probably one of the few reasons people would choose to go DO over MD if it was that close to your home. But anything else, and it's just that, a backup. And since it seems you've just taken a psychology class :), you should know what self-justification is and that it's something these types of threads are filled with.


No, she'll probably be a perfectly proficient doctor, and that really has nothing to do with the fact that I cannot imagine that sort of attitude not reflecting poorly in an interview.

Please explain to me how "DO is a backup" is a fact??? I'd really like to know. Additionally, I think you should know that I have the '3.5/30+' and will be attending a DO school next year. Additionally, I've never advocated applying DO only ... I've always told people to apply both and pick a school based on logical factors - cost, location, rotation opportunities, etc. If the school best suited for you is an MD school. God bless. Furthermore, I openly addressed some of the pros and cons in an earlier post. The FACT of the matter is that nothing you, or any other mis-informed pre-med, spew is fact at all ... it's pure, pointless conjecture based on stuff you read on THIS site.

Listen, I honest to god have no problem with people who say "I wanted to go MD." That's fine. If you want that ... go for it. However, when horribly misinformed pre-meds come on here and repeat the same drivel without any basis - DO is backup only, you can't get into X residency, if you have Y stats you should go to Z school - is when I come in and act like the "new world crusader." If you want to stick to the facts ... I'm fine with that. But if you want to recycle the same old, tired, incorrect statements and ignorant attitude (all behind a blanket of internet anonymity), expect people with knowledge and experience to tell you to zip it.

If this is what makes you feel better about your decision, so be it brotha. Good luck to you.
 
Is is why I wish there was a medical school ranking that used both DO and MD schools together

How would you rank them? If you did it by research like US News does, osteo schools would be at the bottom (granted Mercer and SIU would be down there with them). Would you rank them without publishing the methodology like the Gourman Report?
 
If this is what makes you feel better about your decision, so be it brotha. Good luck to you.

Thanks for addressing and answering the questions and concerns I brought up. It just confirms that your bias is based in solid logic.
 
Location is one of the bigger factors as you mentioned. It's probably one of the few reasons people would choose to go DO over MD if it was that close to your home. But anything else, and it's just that, a backup. And since it seems you've just taken a psychology class :), you should know what self-justification is and that it's something these types of threads are filled with.

Hahahahaha. God you're sad. I seriously hope you're a psych major too ... that would top it off. How old are you anyway? Jesus. I need to spend less time on this site.

EDIT 2.0: UGH, keep figuring stuff out ... apparently you're a 2x URM, Non-Trad, went to a CC, brags about being a black belt, and doesn't like DOs??? What's your angle?
 
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How do people like you make it through the interview process?
What struggle??? And how does this give one a pass?

What is your point? I have merely stated a fact. I am not sure what world you are from, but welcome to the real world where most applicants that apply to DO schools do so because they are not accepted to MD schools or know that their stats are not good enough for MD schools. You may be an exception who really embrace the DO philosophy. But not everyone is passionate about being a osteopathic physician like you are. I think the real question would be how a person like you, who is only able to see one side of the story, make it through the interview process.

C'mon guys. Try and give her a break. She just doesn't know.
(SORRY folks. Had to edit. Re-read the post and I came off wrong).

Not sure what you are trying to say here. I have sincerely considered both DO and MD and decided to apply to MD school only. I have also shadowed both DOs and MDs. Even the DO physicians I shadowed mentioned that they went to DO schools only because they were rejected from all the MD schools they applied to. In many regards DO and MD provide you the same opportunities but as many posters before me mentioned, having a DO limits you in some regards.

Let me guess...he/she will make a terrible doctor?

Get in line with reality man. You act like a majority of people apply DO only, regardless of their stats. The fact of the matter is that DO IS a backup. You don't see people with 3.5+ GPAs/30+ MCATs applying to only DO schools, get real. We all know you're a crusader for the DO new world order, but c'mon man...

My point exactly. JaggerPlate, you have to realize that you are an exception, not the rule.
 
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