I was asking an admission counselor at this pharmacy school and showed her my stats, she said I am competitive for admissions and I have a good shot of getting in. I hear about the world is falling in pharmacy how I won't get a job etc.. But man is job market that bad really? I can move to bum ass no where and just work so I can pay off loans and have a 6 figure income. I am getting older and I applied to another program and got rejected. Not going to wait forever so I can get a career, work is work, work is always sunshine and rainbows. People need to make a living. Someone told me to be a nurse since it would be easier, but I would really hate my life and not get paid as much, pharmacy retail is more manageable. How bad is the job market really?
Should I do pursue pharmacy when admission counselor says I am competitive for admission?
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Job market always fluctuates. There was a time when nursing was considered saturated. The people that don't want you to do pharm are the pharmacists and the pharm students because they're worried about their own job security. Younger and smarter people will eventually replace them. A pharm D is flexible and you can do a lot with it
Being "competitive for admission" does not mean anything now that just about anyone can get into pharmacy school. There are other options, i.e. computer programming, accounting, engineering, etc. that provide better job prospects and a better quality of life without you having to graduate with $200k+ in loans and move to BFE.
too late now, i already have my bachelors of science.
Keep telling yourself that, Mr. Pre-Pharm. You aren't doing yourself or your colleagues any favors by plugging your ears and pretending that the constantly deteriorating job market isn't a huge issue that will affect everyone in this profession.
Graduating triple the amount of pharmacists is much more than a fluctuation. There is no fluctuation, its full on saturation. Do your research OP, new schools are still opening and schools are expanding class sizes. While it is true more residency positions are being opened, no new jobs are being created. The government conducted a study predicting there being an oversupply of 50000 plus pharmacistd by 2025 in a field that employs a bit less than 300000 people. The numbers arent lying, and either are we.
@stoichiometrist you must be at least 40, single, no kids, and absolutely hate your job if you're a PharmD. You literally sit on these post all day and night telling people not to go to pharmacy school. Do you even have a job and are you actually doing work because you spend a lot of time online trolling. Also, did you go back to school and get your computer programming degree since you're so amped up telling everyone else to get it? Or is this your idea of job security? convincing as many people as you can on this forum to not go to Pharm School. I'm really curious. There's like 3-4 of you I see on EVERY COMMENT THREAD.
Still is. So is law, and has been for a long time.
Or because we have a realistic view of the field actually being in it. Pharmacy school professors and administrators want you to do pharm because they're worried about their own job security too. The writing is on the wall for climate change - yet oil companies deny climate change because they're worried about their job security.
Younger, sure. Smarter, I'm not so sure. Anyone with a 2.2 GPA, single digit PCAT, and no work experience can get in as long as you're willing to sign away $200k+ in loans.
https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/your-real-career-options-with-a-pharmd.1240561/
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@stoichiometrist I think we all understand Pharmacy isn't perfect right now, and truthfully everyone will probably struggle some point in their career except for MAYBE a doctor .. MAYBE. Also, clearly I was right about you though because you keep going. You probably should continue your day job and let people make their own life decisions. Granted, opinions are helpful when they are constructive but you're just a negative Nancy 99% of the time ...
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Good god there is no reasoning with you people. The evidence is right in front of your faces, you are denying that this isnt a problem. Just like climate change deniers, you think we have some agenda to keep you out when we're trying to warn you prepharmers who only listen to pharm school deans who have a vested interest in SELLING you guys a pharmacy education, they couldnt care less if you get a job or not. They dont care if you cant make the minimum payment on your loans because salaries dropped too far. I beg you to sit down and look at thr evidence yourselves because you think we're negative nancies. I was one of you 2 years ago, look at my post history. Theres no reasoning with you, just as theres no reasoning with climate change deniers. Look at the cvs website to look at open jobs in your area. Spoiler alert, there wont be many! The job market isnt getting better you would be highly advised to do something else(anything besides law)!
PS if you have ANY non anecdotal evidence please present it. The only evidence any of you bring is from your own boss, who again is out of touch with the job market as they have been in the field and arent looking right now. I will change my tune if anyone has any real evidence against what we are saying.
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Maybe stoichiometrist is like a guy sealed on the pharmacy threads forever cursed . The guy is negative all the time he joined in 2011 and negative comments since then. He has been cursed to troll on the pharmacy threads
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
It's not just denial about the saturation but also that they believe they personally won't be affected by it. They're snowflakes that "work hard," "stand out," and "make sacrifices" and thus will automatically be successful.
The first two stages of grief are denial and anger which we are seeing a lot of on this board.
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Its also funny how its coming strictly from prepharmers who claim we are just negative and will replace us when they graduate: news flash the world doesnt work this way.
You can always get another bachelors of science or a masters degree, or even go to a coding bootcamp. Doing so may very well be a better investment than getting a PharmD which isn't really valued anymore now that just about anyone willing to sign away $200k+ in loans can get one.
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Not at all am I trying to argue with you and saying that I don't see the saturation, because I do. But if you know how bad it is, how come you're still in pharmacy school? Since you say you were prepharm two years ago, why not save yourself now while you're not in as much debt and drop out? Why stay if there's a predicted surplus and you're not gonna get a job anyway?
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isnt it obvious? He would rather have society act before he does.. To enforce his beliefs
Trust me, I know I made a mistake. If I could take it back and do something else I would. However, I am 50k in debt, will rack up at least another 50, and will be graduating and paying off said debt ASAP. The prospect of dropping out then going to PA school sounds dumb as I would then owe at least 150k (not even accounting for interest). I should've went to PA school. My "top 15" school doesn't care about the situation whatsoever. One of my classmates confronted the dean about doubling the class size next year and (I think) brought up the HRSA study. The dean retorted with some nonsense about there being a need for pharmacists in Phoenix during a town hall meeting with our cohorts. What need? lol we're going to be graduating more than 400 pharmacists a year in this state in a few years. Banner is the biggest hospital system in the state and they have a whopping 2 positions open in the Phoenix area. I will finish and pay off my debt, but once its paid I'll find something else to do. I'm still young enough to where I may apply to PA school after paying off my pharm school debt, should be able to get it done before I am 30. But trust me, I've looked in the mirror many times. During my P1 year, everything was great. Then I started hearing how awful the job market was. I didn't believe it, my old manager always told me not to read what is said here as everyone seems to be a bunch of doomsdayers. However, as I prepare to go on APPEs the job prospects aren't exactly lining up. I do well in school and have a 3.5 GPA and easily work 25 hours a week in school. Being somebody who has received excellent reviews from rotations, my district manager won't promise me a job. He said I may be able to float for a few years if I want. Not what I was looking for, nor is this what I planned. I made a mistake. Throw all the shade in the world you want at me, nothing you say isn't something I already haven't beaten myself up over. I really am trying to warn you guys and hopefully prevent SOMEONE from making the same mistakes. Please get your heads out of the sand. You are taught in undergrad to think with logic, the studies all say how bad this is going to be. WalMart is cutting hours. CVS and Walgreens hardly staff as it is. The companies have a vested interest as well in inflating the numbers. The higher the supply, the less they get away with paying us. The schools are literally selling you a product. The loan companies collect tons in interest from you. Insurance companies are paying you less. The doctors hate you. We all are very short sighted and see the 120k salary that won't be around much longer because unemployment will be 25% in 5 short years. All I ask is you put very serious thought about doing something else.
I live in AZ, probably like you @AsuPharm and we graduated from the same Alma Mater .. your point? There are a lot of CVS job openings ...
I got my bachelors and mater's degree from ASU and have never had a problem finding a job. As much saturation is there is, I see so many job postings daily for pharmacist ... especially in Arizona.
Cvs has 14 listed openings in the Phoenix metro area. I know for a fact at least 8 of those are recs are opened due to people switching stores, meaning they arent real openings. I know they are looking for floaters becausr they always are. Tucson may have a bit of a need, but its Tucson. These jobs are drying up, especially given another 300+ people will be graduating very soon in this state. Do you think there are 300 openings? Highly unlikely.
Btw did you get into U of A? I also dont see what your point is of having a masters.
https://pharmacymanpower.com/map.php
Ps look at the numbers here for Arizona, not exactly good. The same study that predicted a shortage in labor a few years ago is now trending heavily to oversupply.
Ps look at the numbers here for Arizona, not exactly good. The same study that predicted a shortage in labor a few years ago is now trending heavily to oversupply.
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If I was in your shoes I would drop out now and start pursuing PA, you're racking up another 50k for no reason, and wasting time that you can be investing into PA school (don't forget those prerequisites expire too) not including the living expenses you're paying just to go to pharmacy school if you have so much doubt in pharmacy. How are you going to even pay off this six figure debt if there's no jobs anyway? Even if its the truth, you don't want to go into the work field with that mentality. I knew that one of pharmacy school's goal is to make money regardless if theres a job for you, of course.
Its good that you're warning students of what you were not aware of which I'm sure the disappointment is annoying since its your future and you invested time and money, and you put your point across. Save your energy to go pursue something you really want to do and get excited about rather than go on SDN, because theres stoichiometrist on here to catch all the forms and say the same things. I might be saying all this for no reason but I can tell from your response that you're hurt that the effort you put in doesn't look like is going to be paid back in return.
What people don't understand is that in fields like pharmacy supply has a delayed response to the demand. For example, if there was a massive shortage of pharmacists right this very moment it would take at least 4-5 years before we would see any change in supply whatsoever as a direct response to this shortage. Why? Because if schools increased their class size it would take 4 years for it to make any difference, obviously it takes students 4 years to get through pharmacy school, and it takes even longer for new schools to open up to meet the demand. The same is true in reverse. If the job market is totally saturated some schools may decrease their class size, and some schools may even fail and close, but guess what? There are already 4 years worth of graduates on their way that entered school BEFORE the changes and they aren't going anywhere. If every school in the nation cut it's class size in half it would take 4 years for it to have any effect on the job market whatsoever. And here's the problem... schools are still expanding their class sizes. In other words the market hasn't hit rock bottom yet, and when it does it will stay there for at least 5-10 years for the reasons that I've just explained. Even my own professors will state the obvious.
Now I know pharmacy schools have been throwing around buzzwords like pharmaceutical care, MTM, etc for decades... but in my honest opinion provider status does have a realistic chance of passing and would have a material effect on the job market. It would essentially allow pharmacists to practice as a NP in the primary care/ambulatory care setting, managing chronic diseases. In many states pharmacists can already do this but they don't because they have no way of getting paid. With provider status passing pharmacists would be able to get reimbursed at sustainable rates. This isn't type type of job that I personally am interested in but MANY students are and it would ease a lot of pressure on the job market if adopted. With that being said I'm certainly not banking on it, but I do believe that it shows a lot more promise than clinical hospital jobs (which my school seems obsessed with) that essentially justify the position with the argument of costs savings, rather than direct reimbursement.
Now I know pharmacy schools have been throwing around buzzwords like pharmaceutical care, MTM, etc for decades... but in my honest opinion provider status does have a realistic chance of passing and would have a material effect on the job market. It would essentially allow pharmacists to practice as a NP in the primary care/ambulatory care setting, managing chronic diseases. In many states pharmacists can already do this but they don't because they have no way of getting paid. With provider status passing pharmacists would be able to get reimbursed at sustainable rates. This isn't type type of job that I personally am interested in but MANY students are and it would ease a lot of pressure on the job market if adopted. With that being said I'm certainly not banking on it, but I do believe that it shows a lot more promise than clinical hospital jobs (which my school seems obsessed with) that essentially justify the position with the argument of costs savings, rather than direct reimbursement.
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Well we don't know the "whole story" what pushed you into pharmacy school. But when you were applying, you were prob getting nervous and excited, and anxious about your acceptance. Then to pass the 1st year with a decent GPA. That's a lot of stress dealing with. Then reading some horror story, another addition of anxiety.
Maybe you are just depressed and anxious? It can block your mind what you really want!
The grass is always greener on the other side. You could hear a successful story who became PA, or whatever about PA.
So these things are blocking you to move further and finish it. You need to take a deep breath, maybe take some antidepressants, and go further. I believe many people in many careers faced that. My husband wanted to do so badly smth, but for few years he wasn't making money, but he had a chance to get other job any time to make decent money to start. He refused, and I always supported him. He is very happy now.
You need to deal with one thing at a time. If you are at school, concentrate how to continue studying and keep you GPA. Then you will deal with Naplex. And after you will deal with a job search. It's just impossible to think about everything at one time, everyone can go crazy from it
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Why you guys getting so mad at stoichiometrist he just wants you all to stay healthy
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he's a pharm student talking shyt bout pharmacy... Why doesn't he pursue computer programming?
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Don't go into pharmacy right now you *****s
Maybe farther in the future if the field changes
Maybe farther in the future if the field changes
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I like your response better
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Yeah, Im also curious to why he hasn't dropped out to pursue computer programming since he's advising everyone to go for it
Keep it as a secret
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