Should I drop Orgo I or risk a C?

[goblue1980]

Hi all,

I'm having a real conundrum. I just took my Orgo final, and I think I bombed it. I had an A in the class until then, but it was just so much material, I couldn't remember it.

We hadn't done any of the reactions until this exam! I had a low A, probably a 91 average, but I'm really concerned that I might have like a C at this point.

I don't know if I would really mind retaking it. I heard the professor for next semester for Orgo I was really good, versus the professor I have now, who I would continue to have for Orgo II, who isn't quite the best teacher.

I'm just exhausted, and with working all day, it was so hard to pack in all those reactions. I'm sure some of you can relate.

I won't find out my final grade until after the drop deadline has passed, unless I can email my TA and ask him to look over mine first. But I just feel like such a bother when I do that....

Any thoughts?

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[Pons Asinorum]

How can you drop a class after taking the final? I'm so confused by this as it's unlike anything I've encountered at a couple of different institutions. Besides that, need more info before weighing in. Current GPA/sGPA? DO/MD preference?

Hi all,

I'm having a real conundrum. I just took my Orgo final, and I think I bombed it. I had an A in the class until then, but it was just so much material, I couldn't remember it.

We hadn't done any of the reactions until this exam! I had a low A, probably a 91 average, but I'm really concerned that I might have like a C at this point.

I don't know if I would really mind retaking it. I heard the professor for next semester for Orgo I was really good, versus the professor I have now, who I would continue to have for Orgo II, who isn't quite the best teacher.

I'm just exhausted, and with working all day, it was so hard to pack in all those reactions. I'm sure some of you can relate.

I won't find out my final grade until after the drop deadline has passed, unless I can email my TA and ask him to look over mine first. But I just feel like such a bother when I do that....

Any thoughts?

 

[goblue1980]

Sorry,

I have an civil engineering background and my undergrad GPA was a 3.41. I graduated in 2003. I have a master's degree (not too science related) with a 4.0 GPA that I completed this past December.

Orgo is only my second course in the post bacc program, but I aced the chem lecture and lab courses. At this point I'm aiming for pediatric care.

My concern is that I'm going to be taking Orgo 2 next semester. How badly will:
1. A poor grade hurt me?

2. A poor understanding of these reactions hurt me going into Orgo 2?

We have a few days left to drop classes. I honestly don't know why the drop date is so late myself, I just know it's an option.

I'm so tired of working and taking classes. I wonder how long I can keep this up.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I wonder how long I can keep this up.

I think you need to sort this out more than you need to drop orgo, but that's just me. At this point you don't have a good idea how you did on the final or what your final grade is. Don't know know really what else to say.

 

[Helen Wheels]

I am confused like Pons about how you drop a class after the final exam. But I'll contribute my 2 cents....

I am sure you'll have a big "W" on your transcript if you drop, right? You don't want too many of those or it looks bad. One or two Ws on your transcript is okay though keep in mind some secondary application questions and/or admissions interviewers will ask you to explain W grades.

It might have been just me but I felt that O Chem II was very different from O Chem I. I thought O Chem II was a lot harder, also. So, I don't think a poor grade on your O Chem I final necessarily translates into a poor background to start O Chem II. YMMV

Still, if you really feel a different teacher would help and you can get a better grade, you can drop and repeat next semester. It really sounds like that is what you want to do. Can you find out your grade before you actually withdraw?

Dunno if you are planning to go MD or DO. Based on my application experience the bar is high at MD programs but the DO programs will likely let a C or two slide.

 

[goblue1980]

Thanks everyone!

I was confused too about dropping a class after the final. I guess if they haven't posted the final grade, we're still okay to drop it.

I did some calculations and I think I would have had to have done extremely poorly to get a C, something like a 55 with no curve. So I think (I hope) I pulled off a better grade than that. I'm a little frustrated b/c I was doing so well and really enjoying the material until now. I've had some trouble with the lab portion, but have managed to pull that grade up to a B. I was counting on an A in the lecture to balance that out. The lab final is coming up...so I guess I'll find out how that goes...

But having a poor knowledge of the reactions in orgo is going to kill me down the road in orgo 2, no?

 

[katiemaude]

I had two thoughts on this. First, doesn't AMCAS count W's as 0.0? For that reason alone, I wouldn't drop it. Even if you get a C, you are still better off with a 2.0 factored in to your GPA. (And I doubt you got a C. I doubt it because I tend to panic similarly after finals, when I'm exhausted.) So I say don't drop.

Second, if you are worried about not having mastered the material for Ochem II, it's a legitimate concern but something you may be able to remediate yourself. I'm starting Ochem I this fall and I'm planning on supplementing my lectures and textbook with one of those Ochem for dummies books (I can't recall the exact titles - maybe someone else can chime in?). I would give Ochem II a shot especially since you were doing so well up until the final. If it's not going to ruin your application timeline and it won't be prohibitively expensive, you could retake Ochem I, but I'm not sure it's the best use of your time.

Worst case, if you really do get a C in Ochem I and you score similarly in Ochem II, you can retake for DO school applications later on.

 

[HenriMatisse]

I'd assume that your professor would scale the final if an A student had that much trouble with it. Don't sweat it yet.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

But having a poor knowledge of the reactions in orgo is going to kill me down the road in orgo 2, no?

If you felt like you understood everything that was put out before the reactions showed up, I think you can recover. The way it's usually divided up, there are only maybe 20 reactions that you need to know, and understanding all the principles (what is steric hindrance? When is a stong base not a nucleophile?) will get you through a nice chunk of the reactions by themselves. I think you can definitely get over that hurdle. I highly recommend this book:
Orgo as a Second Language
Pricey, but very good. There is an Orgo II version as well.

I am sure you'll have a big "W" on your transcript if you drop, right? You don't want too many of those or it looks bad.

This is true, especially for Orgo. Organic is the threshing floor for pre-meds. Seeing a W (or taking it at a CC while enrolled at a 4-year) will be an asterisk on your application (figuratively).

First, doesn't AMCAS count W's as 0.0?

That's false. It counts as 0.0 hours, and 0.0 points on AMCAS, just like it does on your transcript. "W" is the withdrawal while passing designation. It doesn't hurt you numerically, but that "W" is sitting there, and it will be on your application for the adcoms to see. Refer to FuturePittMed's point.

I think you've breathed into the paper bag a bit. You'll be fine. So you made a B. SDN can give the impression that anything other than a 4.0 and you may as well pack your bags now for the Caribbean. That's not true. Just learn from your mistakes and do better in orgo II. The difference in your BCPM GPA on the AMCAS due to getting that B instead of an A for one class isn't going to be what keeps you from being accepted into a medical school.

 

[Kevin Baker]

Would you be dropping it or withdrawing? A lot of classes allow you to drop in the first few weeks and nothing shows up on your transcript. But a withdrawal is different. You can always withdraw, or so I've been told, but when you withdraw and/or your academic standing in the class determines if you get a W or if you get a W/F (withdrawal vs. withdrawal with failing). I'd brush up on your school's policy for this, as it can be complicated, and there are huge differences between a drop, a W, and a W/F.

As some encouragement though, I doubt you got lower than a B, assuming the final wasn't like half the grade. I just got my grades back for a post bacc class. I had a high B, going in, felt I bombed the final, and was contemplating how to explain a C in update letters, and lo and behold, there is a big A in my transcript. Don't sell yourself short. If the average is a 70 or lower, you need to do really badly to take it from a 91 to a 79.

 

[goblue1980]

Hi all, thanks for all the responses!

I feel a lot better.

I actually emailed my TA this morning, asking her about my progress in the course, and if, since I didn't do well on the reactions, if she suggested I retake it. Haven't heard back yet.

I did speak to a few other pretty good students who thought it was really hard, and even left a few blank. The test was tough. It covered 5 chapters that we'd never been tested on. So I'm hopeful... I'm just upset that I was so tired and I even missed some of the "gimmes". I really felt like I knew the stuff up to their really well. So I guess I'm just really disappointed in myself.

I really don't know how we all do it. It's so frustrating, especially the summer semester, working long hours and making it to class. Then watching these kids whose only responsibility is to take this one class. They get to sleep more than 5 hours a night, don't have the other responsibilities, get to live with their parents, etc. Ahh.... the grass is always greener...

Anyways, I have one more final to go. So I better get to studying! Thanks so much for all your thoughtful replies. And Pons, I'll definitely check out that book too!

 

[katiemaude]

That's false. It counts as 0.0 hours, and 0.0 points on AMCAS, just like it does on your transcript. "W" is the withdrawal while passing designation. It doesn't hurt you numerically, but that "W" is sitting there, and it will be on your application for the adcoms to see. Refer to FuturePittMed's point.

Whew! If that's true, I'm extremely relieved! I think I got that impression from another post and it panicked me the other day... I was mailed a copy of my transcript and saw that I registered for and dropped a Spanish I class over 10 years ago at the school I currently attend. It was a pre-Internet distance learning class (Can you imagine???!) and I had to wake up at 3 a.m. every Tuesday and Wednesday to catch these Spanish language classes on the local cable access channel because my VCR (!!!) didn't always tape it. I withdrew from it after 5 weeks, because it was too late to get a drop.

I was totally convinced for a minute there that the W would bring my GPA to the basement... you're saying it won't?

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Not at all, counts as nothing.

http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/2011amcasinstructions.pdf

Any course from which you officially withdrew, regardless of whether you were passing
or failing at the time. Such courses usually appear on the transcript as a "W" or
equivalent symbol.
o A course entry must be made even if the withdrawn course does not appear on
the transcript.
o A course entry should NOT be made if the course was dropped within the normal
drop/add period.
o No credit hours or AMCAS grade will be assigned.

Whew! If that's true, I'm extremely relieved! I think I got that impression from another post and it panicked me the other day... I was mailed a copy of my transcript and saw that I registered for and dropped a Spanish I class over 10 years ago at the school I currently attend. It was a pre-Internet distance learning class (Can you imagine???!) and I had to wake up at 3 a.m. every Tuesday and Wednesday to catch these Spanish language classes on the local cable access channel because my VCR (!!!) didn't always tape it. I withdrew from it after 5 weeks, because it was too late to get a drop.

I was totally convinced for a minute there that the W would bring my GPA to the basement... you're saying it won't?

 

[CookDeRosa]

watching these kids whose only responsibility is to take this one class. They get to sleep more than 5 hours a night, don't have the other responsibilities, get to live with their parents, etc. Ahh.... the grass is always greener...

Greener??? HELL NO!! You couldn't pay me a million bucks to do it all over again. BTW, you DID have that time, you were just doing something else with it.