Should I pursue a research opportunity at a prestigious institution even if publications are unlikely?

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paveldatsyuk

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M0 here starting in Fall and was wondering if I should pursue a research opportunity even if it is unlikely for me to get any publications.

I'm attending a low/mid-tier MD program but there is a super prestigious medical school nearby (top 10). I reached out to a cardiac surgeon there and after emailing back and forth we talked on the phone and to my surprise he offered me the opportunity to be a medical student research assistant in his lab.

After browsing through his publications, I realized that none of them list any medical students as co-authors and all of the co-authors are other physicians and grad/undergrad students in biomedical engineering and engineering related fields.

Do you think this is a fruitless endeavor? Or would it still boost my application for residency down the road if I am serious about it, despite slim chances of any co-author mentions? I was thinking that maybe I can gain something positive from this experience if I pursue it long-term and then do my required capstone project at my school about something that I work on in his lab. Or perhaps the experience that I gain in his lab might help me land something else later on in medical school that will have more promise in terms of publications?

Asking because everyone makes a big deal about publications for competitive residencies but I know time is scarce in medical school. I don't wanna do something thats going to be a time vacuum but won't benefit me come time to apply for residency.

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You'll find that 1/4 of your classmates did summer research or a gap year at some fancy med school prior to matriculation and yet they ended up at your program lol. Don't see how this would differ for residency

Source: Attend a low to mid tier myself

It might be worth the connections given how difficult it is to match categorical CT, but only if there's productive research
 
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Hey, maybe you will be the first med school student to be an author. Somebody's gotta be the first 😃
 
I would figure out what the position entails and go from there. If you will learn useful skills, it might be worth it even if you don't get a publication. But if you're going to be cleaning pipettes for free for the 'experience' of working in a 'prestigious' lab, then it's probably better to focus your attention elsewhere.
 
It sounds like you should talk to him about his and your expectation. I don’t see why he included undergrad biomedical and not med students. Maybe he did not work w med students before or they did not put in enough time/effort. It also depends on what types of research he does. If it is basic science, it takes forever to get pubs, it is very hard to follow through as med student.
 
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I would figure out what the position entails and go from there. If you will learn useful skills, it might be worth it even if you don't get a publication. But if you're going to be cleaning pipettes for free for the 'experience' of working in a 'prestigious' lab, then it's probably better to focus your attention elsewhere.
I'm not really sure if the skills are worth it if they don't translate to anything productive. This is especially worsened by the growing emphasis on productive research experiences that PDs look for in ERAS. If OP wants to do research, they need to go with the mindset of productivity and have something tangible in their apps
 
Why go through all that hassle ?? Use the time to be stupid with your new friends MS1 or for your hobbies. Trust me its not that serious at the end of the day.
 
Why go through all that hassle ?? Use the time to be stupid with your new friends MS1 or for your hobbies. Trust me its not that serious at the end of the day.

I think a large portion of my success in the interview/match process going into a surgical specialty was thanks to busting my butt during M1 working on a research project for a big name person. I think the publication I got out of that experience was not as big of a deal as the (apparently) glowing letter they wrote - multiple people in my interviews said "you should go buy Dr. X a beer".

In a world where Step 1 becomes pass/fail, I think relationships and letters and publications will become even more important.

With 100% certainty, I can say I would not have matched where I did if this guy hadn't gone to bat for me. And he most likely wouldn't have gone to bat for me if I hadn't gone to bat for him like 5 hours/week throughout much of M1. It really wasn't even that big of a time commitment, I was just diligent about going in every Friday afternoon and I did good/fast work while I was there.

Especially during M1, there is plenty of time for goofing off and relaxing. I went to every house party, never said "no" to a night out at bars on a weeknight, worked out multiple times per week, went skiing 15 days, went on multi-day hiking trips... The key is to do a good job of time management, and to skip class as much as possible.

...

That said I don't know how this applies to OP's situation. It seems like the bigshot at that Top 10 school might not include OP on the publication, and is maybe not super likely to write him a great letter unless OP can find a way to continue working with him throughout medical school and hopefully do a clinical rotation with him too down the line.

I think being a research assistant and coming away from the experience without a good letter and without a good publication... is probably mostly a waste of time.
 
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I think a large portion of my success in the interview/match process going into a surgical specialty was thanks to busting my butt during M1 working on a research project for a big name person. I think the publication I got out of that experience was not as big of a deal as the (apparently) glowing letter they wrote - multiple people in my interviews said "you should go buy Dr. X a beer".

In a world where Step 1 becomes pass/fail, I think relationships and letters and publications will become even more important.

With 100% certainty, I can say I would not have matched where I did if this guy hadn't gone to bat for me. And he most likely wouldn't have gone to bat for me if I hadn't gone to bat for him like 5 hours/week throughout much of M1. It really wasn't even that big of a time commitment, I was just diligent about going in every Friday afternoon and I did good/fast work while I was there.

Especially during M1, there is plenty of time for goofing off and relaxing. I went to every house party, never said "no" to a night out at bars on a weeknight, worked out multiple times per week, went skiing 15 days, went on multi-day hiking trips... The key is to do a good job of time management, and to skip class as much as possible.

...

That said I don't know how this applies to OP's situation. It seems like the bigshot at that Top 10 school might not include OP on the publication, and is maybe not super likely to write him a great letter unless OP can find a way to continue working with him throughout medical school and hopefully do a clinical rotation with him too down the line.

I think being a research assistant and coming away from the experience without a good letter and without a good publication... is probably mostly a waste of time.
Gotcha, but people's interests change so much during med school. Plus OP doesn't even know how he/she will cope with the challenges of 1st year. More often than not its a huge hassle. MS1 was brutal for me and alot of my classmate so maybe im influenced by my experiences. I think the people who did both really well doing MS1 are exceptions. But this is SDN if u arent doing everything you can do to match #1 then you're doing it wrong. All im saying is that its alot of hassle that might not be the best use of his/her time.
 
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Gotcha, but people's interests change so much during med school. Plus OP doesn't even know how he/she will cope with the challenges of 1st year. More often than not its a huge hassle. MS1 was brutal for me and alot of my classmate so maybe im influenced by my experiences. I think the people who did both really well doing MS1 are exceptions. But this is SDN if u arent doing everything you can do to match #1 then you're doing it wrong. All im saying is that its alot of hassle that might not be the best use of his/her time.

I guess I just assumed OP is playing with the idea of going after something competitive given they are searching out cardiac surgeons to do research with - and in that case it will help to hit the ground running in M1.

I'm sure it's true that people who do well in research and in academics are exceptions.... but the people matching integrated CT surgery or top general surgery programs that feed into competitive fellowships, tend to be exceptional. Especially if OP is coming from a lower tier school, in a pass/fail Step 1 world, they are probably gonna have to bust their butt to make it happen, if that's the path they want.

Of course, the argument could be made that maybe we'd all be happier with our lives if we took a chill pill and went into Psych or anesthesia instead...
 
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I guess I just assumed OP is playing with the idea of going after something competitive given they are searching out cardiac surgeons to do research with - and in that case it will help to hit the ground running in M1.

I'm sure it's true that people who do well in research and in academics are exceptions.... but the people matching integrated CT surgery or top general surgery programs that feed into competitive fellowships, tend to be exceptional. Especially if OP is coming from a lower tier school, in a pass/fail Step 1 world, they are probably gonna have to bust their butt to make it happen, if that's the path they want.

Of course, the argument could be made that maybe we'd all be happier with our lives if we took a chill pill and went into Psych or anesthesia instead...
Haha I’m prob just lazy, hence why I’m going into one of those chill specialties.. All this extra work just seem like such a hassle. But I get it if OP wanna stand out sometimes it takes going that extra mile..
 
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I am very wary of recommending you say "yes" to any research project before even beginning med school. There's no context for how you will handle the transition, or what you're interested in, or the mechanics of how that research experience would work. Are you living near your school and then traveling to the other one to work? Is it wet lab work, dry lab, clinical? How many hours a week will they expect? For how long? All of these impact how feasible and advisable this opportunity is.

At the risk of being accused of MD/PhD snobbery, I am also very wary of recommending any med student do bench science research at all in med school if they arent prepared to commit at least a full year of full-time work to a project, because anything less than that is pretty meaningless tbh unless you hit the jackpot in terms of place and time (and you are really skilled at what you need to do). That said, if this is a clinical research project that you can easily collaborate with remotely then thats totally fine. But I'd still say wait and see how the first few months of med school go before you go on tacking additional responsibilities. Figure out how to pass your tests first and get to know your classmates, school, exploring specialties.
 
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I'm an entering medical student as well, and similar to OP am interested in a competitive specialty. I've been thinking about working with physicians at a top medial school that is a state north of where I will be attending med school because the specialty department at the school I will be attending doesn't seem to have prolific clinical researchers. Would it be okay to reach out to them regarding research opportunities, and if so, how would I convey that I would like to be part of clinical research projects that have a good chance of getting published? As others have said, I do plan on getting used to school first, but I'd ideally like to start research as soon as possible.
 
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I'm an entering medical student as well, and similar to OP am interested in a competitive specialty. I've been thinking about working with physicians at a top medial school that is a state north of where I will be attending med school because the specialty department at the school I will be attending doesn't seem to have prolific clinical researchers. Would it be okay to reach out to them regarding research opportunities, and if so, how would I convey that I would like to be part of clinical research projects that have a good chance of getting published? As others have said, I do plan on getting used to school first, but I'd ideally like to start research as soon as possible.

If they are a state north then how do you plan on being physically present at their hospital on a regular basis?
 
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If they are a state north then how do you plan on being physically present at their hospital on a regular basis?
It would have to be remote clinical research, which I believe is possible, but if it isn't, please do let me know. And I know bench research would be next to impossible but I'm not interested in it anyways.
 
Any research experience is helpful, but the fact of that matter is that tangibles matter. Listing that you "did research" at whatever prestigious institution on your ERAS application will be nice, but the depth and quality of the experience will likely be doubted if you don't produce anything from the experience - even if it's "just" a poster presentation or abstract publication.

If you're getting paid for the time and don't otherwise have anything else that you need to do with your time, I don't see how that could be a negative. But the "value" of that experience to your application is going to be limited in the absence of "producibles" that come from the experience.
 
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I think you already know this but in terms of research, publications + big name >> publications + no name > no publications + big name >> no publications + no name. Think about everything in terms of the next best option. It's no use to think about the highest rung on the ladder if you can't get opportunities there. If you have access to a big name PI who you can be productive research-wise with, then the next best thing is having papers with anybody else. If you can't get opportunities for that, then the next best is to develop a good relationship with a big name PI even if it results in no papers. It's no use thinking about higher rungs if there are no opportunities available to you to get to them.

There are several caveats to this. Big name is in reference to whatever field you're applying into. A big name cardiac surgeon will probably mean nothing if you're applying to neurosurgery. They simply won't know the big name cardiac surgeon and won't place a great weight on it. Big name also only matters in the sense that you need to develop a close relationship with this person.
 
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