- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
Resolved
Last edited:
Should I RESIGN or be terminated & FIGHT?
- Thread starter DrT2202
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2004
- Messages
- 27,966
- Reaction score
- 56,404
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this 1 year general dentistry residency is not required whatsoever to practice dentistry right?
Resign, get a job and move on. Unless you had a job that was waiting on you to finish this thing, then it MIGHT be worth fighting.
Resign, get a job and move on. Unless you had a job that was waiting on you to finish this thing, then it MIGHT be worth fighting.
Logistically, yeah it's better to resign than get terminated. It seems unlikely that you're going to be able to "fight" this and win. They're firing you, you're not going to be on good terms with them no matter what.
Although you don't see it now, it would take quite a bit for a PD to terminate you. I strongly suggest you take a hard look at yourself and the way you interact with others. Upsetting one person may be a fluke, but this seems like a systematic problem. What you see as harmless or non-offensive comments are clearly having a significant impact on others.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
That's right but the license I have a temp license for the state I'm in and I'm wondering if that could impact me applying for a license.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
Logistically, yeah it's better to resign than get terminated. It seems unlikely that you're going to be able to "fight" this and win. They're firing you, you're not going to be on good terms with them no matter what.
Although you don't see it now, it would take quite a bit for a PD to terminate you. I strongly suggest you take a hard look at yourself and the way you interact with others. Upsetting one person may be a fluke, but this seems like a systematic problem. What you see as harmless or non-offensive comments are clearly having a significant impact on others.
You're right. I did actually try to look at myself and I've been going to a psychiatrist to try to understand this issue. I haven't been able to point out something in specific but you know sometimes when some people just rub you the wrong way who haven't necessarily harmed you. That hasn't been the case with everybody though and rotations i do outside of the department, I seem to get along well with the people there. There's no clear confrontation here whatsoever. Thanks for the advice.
You keep mentioning that there was no "confrontation," but it's not necessary that there be a confrontation/argument/fight for there to be a big problem.
You mentioned specifically your interaction with women (Note: "women" not "girls", you're not in high school anymore) have been problematic. A serious concern for PDs is going to be if you are creating a hostile working environment that may border on sexual harassment. That's something that will get you fired pretty quickly if you start saying things that are legally "actionable" by the other party. I don't know the specifics of the situations, but it's something for you to think about.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
That's a valid point but it's not the case here at all. It's not only the "females" I wasn't really saying anything sexual but it's that the guys I spoke to said they didn't really care/weren't affected by the stories I was telling but others might find it obnoxious. I acknowledge the fact that I shouldn't have made ppl uncomfortable and I never repeated that and treated everybody with grace and respect but it's hard to tear down the wall when it forms between people unfortunately.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2005
- Messages
- 8,630
- Reaction score
- 726
So the guys weren't offended but the women were so you thought it was ok?
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2005
- Messages
- 8,630
- Reaction score
- 726
Your story is full of red flags that would raise concern and make even the most cavalier resident toe the line.
"After my 1st month of residency, my PD sat with me to tell me about deficiencies in my bedside manners with patients and to be more compassionate and that I did things such as tell patients that this injection will hurt a lot (which is true for the hard palate) and instead say it in another way like "this injection will pinch but it will be very brief" and in general be gentle to patients and staff. I worked on it and have been gentle and very wary of patients' pain perceptions and take all the time in the world for anesthesia to work and always very courteous to them and the staff."
- This was a first warning, and a big one. Residents are called in to discuss professionalism issues and often this involves one or two incidents, and either relationships with staff or relationships with patients. Here, you were being warned that your interactions with patients were subpar and that your interactions with other services (anesthesia) were subpar. This was a huge red flag, and you failed to recognize it.
"On the other hand, I'm quite expressive of my opinions and views on issues that might be sensitive to some people such as politics, religion, sex etc.. some of my co-residents (girls in specific) have sort of labeled me as rude and insensitive after a conversation (more of storytelling) from my part at lunch one time."
- It's too late for this now, but residency is not the time to let your personality shine. In fact, medicine is not the right workplace for someone who feels the needs to be "quite expressive of...opinions...on issues...such as...sex." I have residency classmates whose religions are obvious based on dress, hairstyle, etc. However, religion rarely came up as a topic for almost ALL of my intern year unless it was "Can you cover me for this religious holiday, I can't work once the sun is down?" or something of the like. Later, off campus, around dinner tables or on bar stools we held some very interesting discussions. However, in no way should these topics be addressed while at work or during the work day. It can wait until you get home.
You screwed up. Bow your head and resign. They clearly have patient complaints and likely some staff complaints as ammo should you choose to fight this. Get your permanent license elsewhere. Reform your behavior - because behavior and attitudes like you mention won't earn you any friends in private practice, and may, in fact, earn you a sexual harassment suit.
"After my 1st month of residency, my PD sat with me to tell me about deficiencies in my bedside manners with patients and to be more compassionate and that I did things such as tell patients that this injection will hurt a lot (which is true for the hard palate) and instead say it in another way like "this injection will pinch but it will be very brief" and in general be gentle to patients and staff. I worked on it and have been gentle and very wary of patients' pain perceptions and take all the time in the world for anesthesia to work and always very courteous to them and the staff."
- This was a first warning, and a big one. Residents are called in to discuss professionalism issues and often this involves one or two incidents, and either relationships with staff or relationships with patients. Here, you were being warned that your interactions with patients were subpar and that your interactions with other services (anesthesia) were subpar. This was a huge red flag, and you failed to recognize it.
"On the other hand, I'm quite expressive of my opinions and views on issues that might be sensitive to some people such as politics, religion, sex etc.. some of my co-residents (girls in specific) have sort of labeled me as rude and insensitive after a conversation (more of storytelling) from my part at lunch one time."
- It's too late for this now, but residency is not the time to let your personality shine. In fact, medicine is not the right workplace for someone who feels the needs to be "quite expressive of...opinions...on issues...such as...sex." I have residency classmates whose religions are obvious based on dress, hairstyle, etc. However, religion rarely came up as a topic for almost ALL of my intern year unless it was "Can you cover me for this religious holiday, I can't work once the sun is down?" or something of the like. Later, off campus, around dinner tables or on bar stools we held some very interesting discussions. However, in no way should these topics be addressed while at work or during the work day. It can wait until you get home.
You screwed up. Bow your head and resign. They clearly have patient complaints and likely some staff complaints as ammo should you choose to fight this. Get your permanent license elsewhere. Reform your behavior - because behavior and attitudes like you mention won't earn you any friends in private practice, and may, in fact, earn you a sexual harassment suit.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
Thanks for the feedback but again, there was nothing sexual I said. Im just mentioning that the topics that are sensitive involve the 3 "taboos". Nothing explicit was ever said and nothing against anyone. I understand that I need to improve and I'm working on that. I didn't say it was ok for all the guys. In fact, it was the way or the demeanor rather than the words being said. I'm noticing that since I put these words out there that some people might misinterpret it so again I just want to make it clear that i was told it's not what I said, rather the way it was said and trust me nothing even close to sexual harasment was thought of by anybody. Thank you.
A wall didn't "form" between you and others. It was not a passive random occurrence. You said some very offensive things to other people on a consistent basis and it was so bad that it got you fired. I hope you appreciate how serious this is and the implications for your future career. You need to take a lot more responsibility for what happened.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
I do. I think I made a mistake by mentioning these sensitive discussions because they were never brought up in that meeting. These were conversations between residents that I "feel" affected my relationships with them and when I asked some of them; some didn't find it offensive and some did. I'm taking responsibility for it but I'm saying that this was not something that the PD or anybody else in this meeting brought up.
The issue at hand really is that patients complained that I was aggressive and rude and when I asked for further explanation coz I don't recall any conflicts; I was told that sometimes they feel that i don't listen well or was compassionate enough and I feel sorry about that and should work on improving that aspect. Some days, you might not be in a good mood but you should make the patients feel comfortable and at ease and I listened to that and acknowledge my shortcomings.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
And I should correct this as well: I didn't say offensive things to people at all. It was bragging nothing sexual nothing directed to anyone and when I say politics and religion it's becuase it's one of the taboos but when these conversations happened everybody participated and everybody came out of it clear with no harm. The one time that unease was felt when the bragging happened. I mentioned it in a wrong way in that thread but I'm being honest to get honest opinions and I appreciate the feedback.
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2005
- Messages
- 2,752
- Reaction score
- 657
You don't even need to be in a 1-year GPR. Just bail and go into practice.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
- Messages
- 856
- Reaction score
- 34
In short, I suspect you are screwed.
They think they need to dump you after 4 months and have given you a list of issues. These sound both academic and HR related. Courts give programs great deference to patient safety and performance issues as long as they can provide documentation.
I do think you should hire an employment lawyer. That lawyer will negotiate your resignation and negotiate exactly why they will say if future employers/medical boards/etc inquire. You need to cut your losses.
They think they need to dump you after 4 months and have given you a list of issues. These sound both academic and HR related. Courts give programs great deference to patient safety and performance issues as long as they can provide documentation.
I do think you should hire an employment lawyer. That lawyer will negotiate your resignation and negotiate exactly why they will say if future employers/medical boards/etc inquire. You need to cut your losses.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
You're absolutely right. i'm seeing a lawyer first thing on Monday actually. Thank you.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
True. It's just going to restrict the number of states I can practice as I'm foreign trained and I'm afraid it would hinder future employment. Thank you for the response though.
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2010
- Messages
- 597
- Reaction score
- 234
Your problem is not just the formal one of having the correct paperwork, you are having major cultural issues in fitting in to a professional workplace in the USA. Dentists who are successful are not necessarily those with great technical skills and knowledge (although I note you needed some exam retakes, so that may be an issue too) but those who have great social skills with patients and co-workers.
I'm not sure a psychiatrist is best placed to help you. A psychologist who can give relationship/interpersonal skills advice might be more useful (relationships aren't just for sex partners, but with everyone we have interactions with). Alternatively, you might try to find a course which would give you diversity training, social awareness training and/or training on how to manage inter-personal relationships at work.
It's good you are seeing a lawyer. You need to take with you your contract with the program and all the paperwork and correspondence about the terms and conditions of working there, noting any in particular which you think are relevant to your situation. Particularly helpful are any procedural requirements on the program to give informal and formal warnings before taking institutional action. A written timeline of all the relevant incidents/discussions about your performance could also help.
I think it is unlikely that the lawyer will be able to help you stay in the program. If they do, it is because the program hasn't yet followed the proper procedures to get you out and you haven't been bad enough for them to dismiss you without following those procedures. Even in this case, the program could make an immediate start on the proper procedures and get you out at the end of them. It is (remotely) possible that if you could demonstrate your understanding of your failures and have a plan in place for remedying them, that the program would give you a further chance. But you need to understand that your first chance started after your PD first sat down with you to talk about your problems, so you may have already run out of chances. If that is the case, then the best your lawyer can do is negotiate the terms of your exit - such as whether you get any further time at the program (probably equivalent to or shorter than the time it would take the program to force you out), and (probably most vital for you in getting your first US dental job) what the terms of your reference from the program will be.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2005
- Messages
- 21,377
- Reaction score
- 17,905
I think the other posts have pretty much covered your options. You CAN fight this, but you WILL lose. Then, not only will you not be able to practice in that state (or the others that require foreign grads to have PGY year), but you run the risk of not being able to practice at all in the US because the PD will nuke any license applications that come through. You're also going to have to tell any licensing authority that you resigned/were fired/non-renewed at a training program and the best answer you can have to this is "I resigned due to personal issues that have since been remedied by doing X, Y and Z". If you have to answer "I got fired because everybody in the program thought I was an a-hole" you're not getting a license anywhere...ever.
The best option at this point is to resign and the resignation agreement (drafted with your lawyer...good call on that) should make it clear that when asked he will write, at worst, a neutral letter for you (either for another training program or a licensing board).
You can contact a lawyer to protect your rights and negotiate your exit, but if you are doing that with the intention of "fighting" the decision, the only two sure things are:
1) Your current program will be completely scorched earth for you. Probably is already, but it will be worse, and your case will be talked about for years to come.
2) Some lawyers will make some money.
Think clearly about what your endgame goals are if you involve a lawyer to any great degree.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2005
- Messages
- 21,377
- Reaction score
- 17,905
This program is already scorched earth, there's no changing that. The lawyer is there to attempt to insure that the current program can't make the entire country scorched earth.
- Joined
- May 15, 2008
- Messages
- 5,089
- Reaction score
- 55
Would get an attorney, b/c he/she can try to extract some sort of guarantee the program won't say a lot of blatantly bad stuff about you.
You should get a letter of reference/evaluation from them, if possible, that looks neutral/not too bad...not sure if this is possible.
I also agree that psychiatrist might not be the best person to be treating you if you don't have something like bipolar/schizophrenia/major depression where you would need meds. It might be helpful, but someone like a clinical psychologist, who is good at what he/she does, might be cheaper and able to spend more time with you and maybe more helpful. This seems more like a problem with interpersonal relationships and a difference between the way you intend to come across and the way you actually DO come across to other people. Right now, you are concerned with this bad thing that's happening to you in terms of residency, but this can continue to be an issue when you are in practice. Patients often will have a lot of high expectations of you, and even unreasonable ones, and you have to be able to step back and not let anybody push your buttons and also be reassuring at the same time.
You should get a letter of reference/evaluation from them, if possible, that looks neutral/not too bad...not sure if this is possible.
I also agree that psychiatrist might not be the best person to be treating you if you don't have something like bipolar/schizophrenia/major depression where you would need meds. It might be helpful, but someone like a clinical psychologist, who is good at what he/she does, might be cheaper and able to spend more time with you and maybe more helpful. This seems more like a problem with interpersonal relationships and a difference between the way you intend to come across and the way you actually DO come across to other people. Right now, you are concerned with this bad thing that's happening to you in terms of residency, but this can continue to be an issue when you are in practice. Patients often will have a lot of high expectations of you, and even unreasonable ones, and you have to be able to step back and not let anybody push your buttons and also be reassuring at the same time.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2013
- Messages
- 10
- Reaction score
- 0
This story saddens me.
You are a graduate from a professional school.
You did not go to charm school
See this is why there shouldd be in a union because all sorts of this bull**** would be handled. If you were part of a union they would not dare terninate you for soft reasons like this. Of course they did not give you specifics.
You are a graduate from a professional school.
You did not go to charm school
See this is why there shouldd be in a union because all sorts of this bull**** would be handled. If you were part of a union they would not dare terninate you for soft reasons like this. Of course they did not give you specifics.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2004
- Messages
- 6,007
- Reaction score
- 6,711
they gave him PLENTY of specifics...this should not have come as a complete surprise...out of the blue...the PD spoke to him in the FIRST MONTH for Godsakes!!
the thing it seems is that the OP (and apparently you) think that manners count in medicine and that you can be a complete *$$ to colleagues and patients, but if you have your medical knowledge than you are good...in other countries this may fly, but in the US...it no longer does...the patriarchal approach to medicine is not the norm anymore here...yes, charm is important in medicine...there was a study done, i dunno, 12-15 yrs ago that was published in JAMA that demonstrated that doctors that were well liked by their patients were less likely to be sued...even if the doctor that was seen as arrogant was also perceived as smarter...nice wins...
- Joined
- May 30, 2007
- Messages
- 2,559
- Reaction score
- 464
The system should be geared to protect patients, not to protect doctors. Part of "professional" school is professionalism. That doesn't necessarily mean that you have to "charm" people... just that you have to behave like a professional. That's why we have extensive teaching on professionalism in medical (and, I assume, dental) school... 95% of us think that these teaching sessions are silly because the principles are obvious, but the other 5% might need some help learning when certain things are appropriate/inappropriate. If your behavior is not in line with our cultural standards for professionalism, it can negatively impact the reputations of the program and the people around you.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2013
- Messages
- 10
- Reaction score
- 0
You're drinking the kool aid brother.
If you're nice and incompetent, its not okay if you are incompetent as long as you are nice. Sorry.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
Thanks for the feedback but trust me I was never a complete A&^%hole to everybody. Even my PD iis telling me it's not your intention to be condescending but it comes out that way. The retakes by the way are for medical subjects to get the conscious sedation certificate and most residents take them for example in family medicine which is really very broad in scope and it's in scores like 67 when the passing is from 70 and things like that.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
Thanks for your concern. It's a hard lesson. I'm not intending to fight to continue the program since I would be miserable there but I don't want my future endeavors to be affected.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
You're right there should be lessons. I didn't act in bad manners but if I don't smile to a patient or am too focused on the task to show that I'm hurt for their pain and am brief in my answers. Apparently that affects patients. I really didn't expect this.
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2006
- Messages
- 10,418
- Reaction score
- 14,645
A common theme in threads like this is the resident/trainee not recognizing the seriousness of the situation when it first arises. Part of that is "my" fault, because I don't want to be a "bad guy", and hence I tend to use non-threatening language. Then when things get worse / don't improve and the possibility of non-renewal / termination comes up, it seems like a shock. But, even when I'm very clear and put it in writing, I am often told later "I didn't think you really meant it". or "I didn't think I could really get fired for this".
Another common refrain is "But my performance in all other areas is fine". That may be true, but if I graduate a resident that means that I put my good name behind them, and any deficiencies in the future reflect upon me.
To the poster above that stated that we graduate incompetent but nice residents, I don't think that's true either. I think that people who are "nice" do tend to get more leeway. I'm more likely to invest time and energy into someone whom I enjoy working with.
Another common refrain is "But my performance in all other areas is fine". That may be true, but if I graduate a resident that means that I put my good name behind them, and any deficiencies in the future reflect upon me.
To the poster above that stated that we graduate incompetent but nice residents, I don't think that's true either. I think that people who are "nice" do tend to get more leeway. I'm more likely to invest time and energy into someone whom I enjoy working with.
D
deleted480308
If i could ask a general followup to this...if a program director/preceptor ever mentions a specific deficiency or problem (ie don't do that again, you need to work on, some people have mentioned that you aren't...) what is the most usually safe response? In my other areas of life it has been 1) saying I'm sorry about it and will do whatever I can to not repeat 2) actually changing the behavior and 3) follow up later (few days/weeks) to make sure I'm progressing properly.
Is this an ok plan in a medical environment or is there a different protocol?
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2013
- Messages
- 10
- Reaction score
- 0
You're the typical smarmy program director.. You know this is a trumped up charge based on bull****. Program directors use it to create a paper trail to soothe the people that are maknig the charges (nurses, techs ancillary staff..) to save face in front of them so their asses are not on the line. Its being yellow, less of a man. You know as the op stated sometimes when you are new and overwhelmed you come across one way when you did not intent to come across that way. ON top of that, nurses and nps and techs are incredibly jealous of medical professionals and moreover they are encouraged to report and write incident reports on any doctors. They relish in the demise of doctors. And the people who have to protect and stand up for doctors in training (residency program directors, chiefs of departments) fail miserably because they are too worried about their image. Leadership fails once again. This is NOT a popularity contest.
If the op was in the residents union this would NEVER happen!!!! and the program director would not have a leg to stand on.
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2010
- Messages
- 597
- Reaction score
- 234
1. Make sure that you fully understand what the problem is. Ask for clarification if you are unsure.
2. The problem might be a single incident, or a pattern of incidents. Whichever it is, try to understand what the underlying reasons are - eg. if the problem is "I did this/I said this", try to understand what led you to do that/say that inappropriately (cultural differences/ social ineptitude/emotional incontinence/stress/illness, etc)
3. Put a plan in place to remedy both the immediate problem (I'll keep quiet in that situation/I'll say please and thank you and remember to smile/I'll always ask the patient if they have any concerns, etc) and the underlying one (find a mentor/read appropriate educational text/attend training courses etc).
4. Tell the person who told you of the problem what your plans are - eg see them within the week with your thought-out analysis and remedy - and ask if they are happy with that or have any other suggestions.
5. Follow up after another week/fortnight/month to ensure that there have been no further problems.
D
deleted480308
Really liked #2, thanks
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2010
- Messages
- 597
- Reaction score
- 234
Your biases are showing. A professional role has a cultural value as well as a technical one. Someone who creates problems and unnecessary strife in what are incredibly complex organisations involving hundreds or thousands of people is failing to meet the standards required of that professional role.
It is also a mistake to think that someone's employer, even if they are employing a doctor in training, has to protect or stand up for those employees. The only reason any employer takes on an employee is because that employee will be of benefit to the employer. If the employee ceases being of benefit to the employer, then out they go. Which is why unions are a good idea when people are employed in big organisations. A single person in conflict with a big employer has nowhere else to turn for help. Most people don't realise this, and then by the time they have career-ending problems (whether fairly or unfairly), it is too late.
- Joined
- May 30, 2007
- Messages
- 2,559
- Reaction score
- 464
And it's not okay to be competent if you're not nice. Both things are important. If you can't bring yourself to do that, be a radiologist or a pathologist. That's why I said that "part" of professional school is professionalism.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2013
- Messages
- 10
- Reaction score
- 0
Keep drinking the touchy feely nursing Kool AID.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2008
- Messages
- 1,778
- Reaction score
- 114
Wow....major assumption??
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
- Messages
- 4,690
- Reaction score
- 2,652
I would get out while you can. The highlighted info you stated is your exit strategy and preserves you ability to get another residency and be hired in the future. Fighting would result in pure misery and sometimes it's better to cut your losses and move on unscathed. While I was never asked to leave residency, I have had a few jobs where we parted ways due to irreconciliable differences. Not all jobs work out and a hostile work environment is never good for either party.
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2006
- Messages
- 10,418
- Reaction score
- 14,645
I'm going to try really hard to keep this civil.
First, you don't know me and extraopolating my thoughts and behaviors based upon this one thread is ridiculous. I have >5K posts here on SDN over 10+ years. You are welcome to review them, and after you've done so I'd be happy to listen to your opinion.
Second, I feel really, really sorry for you if this is your experience in medicine. My experience at several locations is that my ancillary colleagues are all on the same team -- we're trying to deliver high quality care to our patients. We work together, and we get each other's backs. I've been practicing at my current program for >15 years and don't have a single nursing complaint. And don't tell me this is because they are afraid to report -- we have completely anonymous reporting.
With an attitude like the above, it's not a surprise if you've been on the receiving end of criticism from your colleagues.
All that said, I'm done with this discussion. After reading this again, and seeing you only have 7 posts, I wonder if this is just trolling. If so, congrats, since you got me angry. Either way, welcome to my blocked list, I'm done reading your posts.
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
- Messages
- 4,690
- Reaction score
- 2,652
WOW, spoken like someone who does not belong in healthcare. Good luck on your career change.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2013
- Messages
- 10
- Reaction score
- 0
Don't hate the messenger. I'm just telling you how it is.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
I'm actually seeing a psychologist not a psychiatrist; made a mistake confusing them together. I've seen her 3 times so far and when I look at the conversations: turns out I never told her about problems with patients. It was mostly about the co-residents issue. Even though the main issue and what prompted this action was the patient complaints more than anything else. So in retrospective it seems like I didn't think the patient problems were that serious and that my relationships with my patients (in my opinion) were fine or had no issues. It's just too bad that a patient's opinion on a doctor can be so detrimental just coz that doc didn't smile in their face or didn't show enough empathy. It's really subjective and yes I'm not without fault but really this is a 1 way street and I have no way of defending myself.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
Dear PD,
I'm sorry if 1 of the posts here bothered you but please keep giving me feedback on this thread. As you said, you've been posting and been active on these forums for a long time and that's why I reached out and sought your advice and yours was actually very civil and soothing and non judgmental. I appreciate your input so please don't ignore that thread if there's anything that I can benefit from your experience at.
Thank you,
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
True. I just want to make sure that the PD wouldn't hurt me in the future with what he/she has to say. Thank you
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
- Messages
- 4,690
- Reaction score
- 2,652
That is not their purpose in life. Even the jobs I resigned from they are still civil and fill out paperwork that I need to send their way. It doesn't work like that. They are not junior high teenage girls who hold grudges to make your life forever difficult once you leave their program.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2004
- Messages
- 6,007
- Reaction score
- 6,711
first you need to show some respect...apd comes on here year after year of his own accord to help those that are looking for insight and advice...and he is ACTUALLY a program director...the ability to have the access those on sdn have with apd coming on here is priceless.
second, you are very obviously relating to this person, m/l because you have heard the same thing...realize that if you come over HERE as an FMG to train in the US healthcare system YOU need to adapt to said system...and HUNDREDS of FMGs come here and do EXACTLY that...if you are having trouble, you need to seek help for the issues you are having...
the OP WAS given notice pretty early on that there was a significant problem in the OPs attitude and behavior...and yet he was still surprised? HE didn't think it was important (because maybe in his culture its not important for doctors to be nice to their patients or expect nurses and other ancillary staff to acquiesce to the doctor) and so didn't really take it seriously...
and third...yes...it is to some extent a popularity contest...since life is a popularity contest...people like you, they tend to believe in you ability and are invested in you...trust if 2 interns make the same mistake and one is nice, respectful and well liked and the other is not...people will give the 1st guy the benefit of the doubt...
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 1
I was surprised because I really genuinely changed after this 1st warning. I was babying the patients literally and with the first patient that I'm brief/non smiling with; I get a termination. That's harsh based on a subjective matter like this. I appreciate the "aPD" input and I just want to move on with my life without ruining my whole career by this. I already finished 1 year of residnecy in a university and it turned out fine so I think that patients in big cities might be different than patients in small quiet agricultural towns. Maybe it's not right but I will work on improving my interpersonal skills.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2013
- Messages
- 10
- Reaction score
- 0
Dude, its not you, it's them (the program). THey railroaded you. They have no shame. Something like this is easily fixed. Easily. This kinda thing is pervasive in medical education. Nobody wants to take responsibilty to lead and foster the growth of physicians in training
I think part of the problem is that one person's definition of a clear warning may not be clear to another person.
For example...
E.g., We have received x number of complaints about unprofessional behavior and are informing you of these reports so that you can correct this behavior. Specific incidents include... Your actions deviate from the following policies... Based on these policies, it is the opinion of the program that you should be terminated for your behavior. However, per policy, except for severe infarctions, residents will not be terminated without warning so as to be informed of their behavior in order to allow the opportunity for improvement. This serves as an official warning that you have behavied in a manner deserving of termination. Per policy, you are required to undergo a psychological evaluation to retain employment at this time. Your signature below indicates understanding that this is your only warning and that any further unprofessional behavior will result in immediate termination.
Vs.
'Hey buddy, how are things going? Oh by the way, a couple of people have told me that they were offended by some of your jokes, can you please tone it down a bit? Oh and we got an email from a patient who was upset that you casually used profainty in front of him. Don't do it again, ok? If you need to talk to anyone, I'm always around.'
