Mar 8, 2015
972
1,307
Status
Medical Student
I would be honest about your preparation, if it played a big role then go ahead and talk about why, but otherwise I would probably leave it out.
 

GrapesofRath

2+ Year Member
May 5, 2015
5,320
3,803
Status
Non-Student
In Cinci's interview invite essays, they say:

Discuss how you prepared for your first MCAT exam. If you have taken the MCAT multiple times, provide a preparation outline for each attempt. If you are planning to take the MCAT again after submitting the UC On-Line Secondary Application, outline how you will prepare.

I took the MCAT in January (voided) and again in May (did well). Should I mention the Jan date since they won't know that I took it then, as far as I can tell?
No
 

DrDorianTurkleton

It builds character.
2+ Year Member
Jun 5, 2015
216
274
My Happy Place
Status
Medical Student
Like others have said above, the whole point of voiding a score is to make it look like you never actually took the test that day; the exam is never scored or anything. Just talk about the exam you actually took and how you prepared for that. :)
 

akai1412

2+ Year Member
Jul 5, 2015
91
30
just wondering, is that essay written during the interview? or when you get the interview invite?
 

gonnif

Only 389 Days Until Next Presidential Election
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
20,648
31,779
The Big Bad Apple
Status
Non-Student
I will play devil's advocate that a medical school has the right to ask anything that is factual. While it is extremely remote, by not claiming the void, and you get accepted, and at some point they find out you withheld information, it could be construed as a ethical violation and grounds for withdrawing your acceptance up until you have been awarded the degree. Yes, they can kick you out of medical school over an ethical violation from before acceptance. It also matters greatly on how the void clause is written in the MCAT agreement
 

gonnif

Only 389 Days Until Next Presidential Election
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
20,648
31,779
The Big Bad Apple
Status
Non-Student
@gonnif The whole reason a void exists is so that the test never occurred in the first place. I can't find anything unethical about not revealing this.
By the simple fact that you took theses actions (ie prepped and took a test then voided it) and are being asked a question about it on a secondary. If you dont reveal it, that is you are intentionally leaving information off that you know to be true, that would be an unethical act. Now, I do not know what the agreement between a test taker and MCAT says about voiding nor do I know what the agreement between MCAT and the schools. This may in fact be an illegal question and I can pose this to the AMCAS people on the regulations. But without those specifics, this would be an intentional act of omission and, therefore, unethical behavior.
 

p0gono

2+ Year Member
Jul 24, 2015
589
473
Status
Medical Student (Accepted)
I will play devil's advocate that a medical school has the right to ask anything that is factual. While it is extremely remote, by not claiming the void, and you get accepted, and at some point they find out you withheld information, it could be construed as a ethical violation and grounds for withdrawing your acceptance up until you have been awarded the degree. Yes, they can kick you out of medical school over an ethical violation from before acceptance. It also matters greatly on how the void clause is written in the MCAT agreement
I think it would be relatively easy to frame the void in a positive light. Emphasize that you had never taken a similar test and wanted to practice, etc. They shouldn't fault you for having the good judgment to void since voiding is a totally legitimate option available to all applicants.

Alternatively, white lie and call it a practice run under very realistic conditions? Ha
 
  • Like
Reactions: DokterMom

idontknowwhatnametopick

2+ Year Member
Jan 24, 2015
1,241
1,318
Status
Medical Student
I agree with @gonnif. I personally wouldn't want the withheld info to be hanging over my head for 4+ years... In my book there is no such thing as a white lie, unless it saves someone's life (like telling a serial killer that there is nobody else in the house when really your child is hiding under the bed).

You took the test and voided it. It shows you were smart enough to know yourself and realize that you needed to prepare differently. So many people take the MCAT and don't void because they spent time and money preparing, and they just can't bring themselves to void even though they really should have. You can outline how you prepared the first time, and say what you did differently the second time.

PS congrats on getting the II, I'm hoping I'll get one from them too sometime soon
 

johnston9234

2+ Year Member
Jun 22, 2014
68
32
Status
Pre-Medical
By the simple fact that you took theses actions (ie prepped and took a test then voided it) and are being asked a question about it on a secondary. If you dont reveal it, that is you are intentionally leaving information off that you know to be true, that would be an unethical act. Now, I do not know what the agreement between a test taker and MCAT says about voiding nor do I know what the agreement between MCAT and the schools. This may in fact be an illegal question and I can pose this to the AMCAS people on the regulations. But without those specifics, this would be an intentional act of omission and, therefore, unethical behavior.

What is the unethical, not telling the school when they asked about it, or the school deliberately asking about something that should be private? Using their influence to negate what little competitive advantages an applicant has.
 

Mr Magpie

Morning
May 21, 2015
270
298
There There
Status
Medical Student
@cottoncandy500 , you have the interview first of all, so congratulations! Now let's take a step back.

First off, the points @gonnif brought up are valid; you don't want to intentionally omit information.

The question asks you straight out, have you taken multiple exams, not completed, and what your prep strategy was. I believe the school just wants to gather information about exam preparation and what seems to work for people (similar to how some schools ask if you took a prep course or not)--I don't think your candidacy is necessarily on the line with the question (barring strange responses etc). The timing of the question, asked after your II, points toward that end.

The legality of unearthing your voided attempt, if it truly concerns you, would be good to look into. AMCAS states in their MCAT essentials pdf that voided attempts are withheld, but they count toward their attempt limits (varies, up to 7 attempts in your lifetime). Take that as you will.

...I mean, isn't the point of you voiding for the med schools not to know what may have been a potentially poor score?
While true, it doesn't pertain to what the school is asking. They are looking for information about exam preparation and multiple attempts. By not divulging the attempt, OP is technically witholding information. We all signed wavers regarding this at some point in the application cycle.


Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Apr 18, 2015
845
694
Status
Non-Student
This is a great MMI kind of question. I see both sides. I think gonnif has a strong point, though, especially depending on how a secondary or interview question is posed. If the question is something like "What is your history with the MCAT and how have you prepared?" or "Gee, how come you didn't take the MCAT earlier?" I'm not sure there is any way to cleanly sidestep those. On the plus side for the student, adcoms I suppose could ding the applicant in some minor way but the applicant's hard stats couldn't be touched, and of course you probably can get over the minor ding by providing a reasonable and honest answer (or perhaps turn the ding into something bigger by getting caught up in not answering honestly).
 

DokterMom

SDN Gold Donor
Gold Donor
5+ Year Member
Mar 1, 2013
5,280
11,747
Status
Non-Student
They asked specifically about how you prepared and what you did, etc. Omitting your voided exam seems deceitful in light of the specificity of the question --

I also view your decision to void as a positive. You studied XX amount, took the exam, felt that under the circumstances -- maybe you weren't feeling well, hadn't slept well, etc. -- that since voiding WAS an available option, and since a poor score would live forever, you elected to void.

For your second test, the one you submitted, you corrected any deficiencies you discovered round one and scored well.

Situation, considered decision, resolution, successful outcome.
 

Mr Magpie

Morning
May 21, 2015
270
298
There There
Status
Medical Student
What is the unethical, not telling the school when they asked about it, or the school deliberately asking about something that should be private? Using their influence to negate what little competitive advantages an applicant has.
I don't think the school is trying to be malicious with their influence (see my above point about data gathering)

Remember that we are talking about ethical conduct (systemic definition of right and wrong), not so much morality (our personal definition of it).

This distinction might seem arbitrary, but it matters a lot at the level of policy and SOP... and especially when litigation is involved.

By omitting the information, op would technically be acting in an unethical manner.
 
Last edited:

gonnif

Only 389 Days Until Next Presidential Election
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
20,648
31,779
The Big Bad Apple
Status
Non-Student
What is the unethical, not telling the school when they asked about it, or the school deliberately asking about something that should be private? Using their influence to negate what little competitive advantages an applicant has.
I would imagine that he agreement that the student has with MCAT and MCAT has with the school states something along the lines that MCAT will not release voided info. However, that says nothing, nor could it, in any direct agreement with a student and a school. In that case, the school can ask anything. Since there is no inherent "right" to attend medical school and school sets their standards as backedup by state charters and LCME accreditation, they can ask almost anything. You, of course have the absolute right not to apply and therefore not divulge any information. However, that is about where the legal protection ends.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Goro and Mr Magpie

Glazedonutlove

2+ Year Member
Jan 3, 2015
3,728
2,993
Status
Medical Student (Accepted)
Honestly thy won't care if you mention it. Especially during the old to new mcat transition


edit: I agree with gonif--just mention it.
 
Last edited:
May 7, 2015
515
382
Status
Medical Student (Accepted)
Mention it. It would be dishonest not to.
 

Planes2Doc

Residency is ruff!
7+ Year Member
Jul 23, 2012
2,748
2,320
The South
Status
Resident [Any Field]
...I mean, isn't the point of you voiding for the med schools not to know what may have been a potentially poor score?

Oh.


My.

God.

Yes! Exactly this! I don't know why pre-meds feel the need to volunteer additional information that would do nothing more than hurt them. The whole point of voiding an MCAT is to give you another shot if you feel something went horribly wrong.

What happens if you're asked about volunteering and you weren't a star volunteer? Are you going to tell the schools that you spent a majority of your time sitting around on your phone?

The whole point of medical school admissions is to make yourself look the best that you can. That means strategically embellishing certain things, and knowing when to leave other things out. Real life is like that too. Think of this as a resume. You only put on what looks good, and leave out things that don't.
 

gonnif

Only 389 Days Until Next Presidential Election
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
20,648
31,779
The Big Bad Apple
Status
Non-Student
Oh.

My.

God.

Yes! Exactly this! I don't know why pre-meds feel the need to volunteer additional information that would do nothing more than hurt them. The whole point of voiding an MCAT is to give you another shot if you feel something went horribly wrong.
Embellishing, emphasizing, enhancing, etc is all fine as you would on a resume. However, when asked a direct question that you intentionally mislead by omission is another matter entirely. The risk of that, while extremely remote, is sanctioned for unethical behavior and loss of admission, likely never to be able to reapply to any medical school. The impact of the risk is great even though the potential of the risk is exceeding small. Therefore, it should be mentioned, even as single line that score was voided

It sounds like this secondary questionnaire was not reviewed by corporate counsel or counsel was not familiar enough with MCAT to have an phrase permitting exclusion of voided scores, which it should have.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Planes2Doc

gonnif

Only 389 Days Until Next Presidential Election
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
20,648
31,779
The Big Bad Apple
Status
Non-Student
This discussion just become moot as each school can easily see that you have voided an exam as below states

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/180052/data/guidebook_preview.pdf
Indication of a voided exam will be displayed in the MCAT Score Reporting
System after the scheduled score release date, but your decision
to void an exam is not released to any medical schools


So, a voided exam is simply never scored and therefore no scores are released. However the new MCAT Score Reporting System allows admission staff to see the attempt as void. Report this void else you would be in direct ethical violation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DokterMom

GrapesofRath

2+ Year Member
May 5, 2015
5,320
3,803
Status
Non-Student
This discussion just become moot as each school can easily see that you have voided an exam as below states

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/180052/data/guidebook_preview.pdf
Indication of a voided exam will be displayed in the MCAT Score Reporting
System after the scheduled score release date, but your decision
to void an exam is not released to any medical schools


So, a voided exam is simply never scored and therefore no scores are released. However the new MCAT Score Reporting System allows admission staff to see the attempt as void. Report this void else you would be in direct ethical violation.
Well if it says the decision to void is not released to any medical school how will ADCOMs see it?
 

gonnif

Only 389 Days Until Next Presidential Election
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
20,648
31,779
The Big Bad Apple
Status
Non-Student
Well if it says the decision to void is not released to any medical school how will ADCOMs see it?
No score is released to the schools, but it will show up in the reporting system which the schools can check.

It is directional.
AMCAS will not send a report to a school that you have voided an exam
It will be noted in the MCAT score reporting system
Schools can actively look at the reporting system and see an attempt with no score.

I am trying to verify this but it appears that the attempt will show up saying not scored with no reason (ie it wont say voided)
 
Last edited:

GrapesofRath

2+ Year Member
May 5, 2015
5,320
3,803
Status
Non-Student
No score is released to the schools, but it will show up in the reporting system which the schools can check.

It is directional.
AMCAS will not send a report to a school that you have voided an exam
It will be noted in the MCAT score reporting system
Schools can actively look at the reporting system and see an attempt with no score.
Schools can make their own guess as to wh
Do schools actively look to do this---look at reporting systems just to check for voiding of scores? Also is this a new thing schools being able to see that you voided?
 

gonnif

Only 389 Days Until Next Presidential Election
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
20,648
31,779
The Big Bad Apple
Status
Non-Student
Do schools actively look to do this---look at reporting systems just to check for voiding of scores? Also is this a new thing schools being able to see that you voided?
I am trying to verify this but it appears that the attempt will show up saying not scored with no reason (ie it wont say voided)
 

Goro

7+ Year Member
Jun 10, 2010
54,027
79,897
Somewhere west of St. Louis
Status
Non-Student
They're not asking for voiding, so leave it out.

EDIT: IF schools can see that you voided, then follow gonnif's advice.


In Cinci's interview invite essays, they say:

Discuss how you prepared for your first MCAT exam. If you have taken the MCAT multiple times, provide a preparation outline for each attempt. If you are planning to take the MCAT again after submitting the UC On-Line Secondary Application, outline how you will prepare.

I took the MCAT in January (voided) and again in May (did well). Should I mention the Jan date since they won't know that I took it then, as far as I can tell?
 
Oct 27, 2013
4,212
1,359
Status
Resident [Any Field]
In Cinci's interview invite essays, they say:

Discuss how you prepared for your first MCAT exam. If you have taken the MCAT multiple times, provide a preparation outline for each attempt. If you are planning to take the MCAT again after submitting the UC On-Line Secondary Application, outline how you will prepare.

I took the MCAT in January (voided) and again in May (did well). Should I mention the Jan date since they won't know that I took it then, as far as I can tell?
Voiding is the same as if you never took it.
 

Maruko

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jul 14, 2007
1,178
244
Status
Medical Student (Accepted)
AAMC shows ALL your scores on the transcript to AMCAS anyway, including voided ones. There's no option for choosing which score(s) to send.
 
Oct 27, 2013
4,212
1,359
Status
Resident [Any Field]
AAMC shows ALL your scores on the transcript to AMCAS anyway, including voided ones. There's no option for choosing which score(s) to send.
I assumed once you void the test its as if you never took it.
 

Planes2Doc

Residency is ruff!
7+ Year Member
Jul 23, 2012
2,748
2,320
The South
Status
Resident [Any Field]
This discussion just become moot as each school can easily see that you have voided an exam as below states

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/180052/data/guidebook_preview.pdf
Indication of a voided exam will be displayed in the MCAT Score Reporting
System after the scheduled score release date, but your decision
to void an exam is not released to any medical schools


So, a voided exam is simply never scored and therefore no scores are released. However the new MCAT Score Reporting System allows admission staff to see the attempt as void. Report this void else you would be in direct ethical violation.
I guess things have changed since I last applied. I only took the MCAT once, but was aware that voiding only showed up as a potential test date, but nothing else. In that case, I didn't feel like not reporting it was unethical in any way. It's not like trying to cover up a score that was already taken. But yeah, since voided exams are now shown, there's no point in trying to avoid it!
 

gonnif

Only 389 Days Until Next Presidential Election
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
20,648
31,779
The Big Bad Apple
Status
Non-Student
Voiding is the same as if you never took it.
No that is not correct.

You void only the scoring
You never void the attempt; each attempt will show
At no time will any voided exam be scored, and the schools will never see any score as there is none
But they will see the attempt

That is how it is works
 

gonnif

Only 389 Days Until Next Presidential Election
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
20,648
31,779
The Big Bad Apple
Status
Non-Student
I went back on a few MCAT guidelines and apparently this is the way it has been done for some time. The difference is now, the MCAT reporting system, which only came on line this year, is becoming widely used and will likely have schools automatically "pull" your reports.
 

gonnif

Only 389 Days Until Next Presidential Election
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
20,648
31,779
The Big Bad Apple
Status
Non-Student
AAMC shows ALL your scores on the transcript to AMCAS anyway, including voided ones. There's no option for choosing which score(s) to send.
Did it actually say voided or simply an attempt with no score
 

Planes2Doc

Residency is ruff!
7+ Year Member
Jul 23, 2012
2,748
2,320
The South
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I went back on a few MCAT guidelines and apparently this is the way it has been done for some time. The difference is now, the MCAT reporting system, which only came on line this year, is becoming widely used and will likely have schools automatically "pull" your reports.
Thanks for checking this out! A lot of changes are taking place, some which help, and some which can harm the applicant. I wonder where everything will lead over the next few years.