Should MDs take a pay cut to make healthcare more affordable?

[StudyLater]

The top 1% of America already accounts for half of the country's tax revenue....how much more do you want???

Just a couple percent more....

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[SSSMDt]

haha but really.. Talking about increasing the taxes to acheive these goals or rebalancing money spent on other programs doesnt seem like social justice at all

Additionally.. These sorts of answers are very touchy and political and a turn off to Adcoms

 

[SSSMDt]

True. In med school interview world: WHAT? Of course you'd serve underserved communities, for FREE if you had to. You'd lobby your fellow physicians to donate their time, free of charge, because it's JUST THE RIGHT THING TO DO. And if they can't see that, well.

You'll hire midlevels instead

Thatll ensure that i dont get accepted just the same as the prior notion

 

[HoboCommander]

The top 1% of America already accounts for half of the country's tax revenue....how much more do you want???

You just tax down the line, middle class included. In California, we were forced to go to the polls to increase our own taxes, because politicians were too afraid to do it. The money has got to come from somewhere. Health care is expensive.

Also, no one ever mentions this, but in a way you can actually get health care for free, you just go to the emergency room to get yourself taken care of, and then simply not pay the hospital. This is the reason why the bills are so high, to compensate for the people who don't pay.

 

[Psai]

The top 1% of America already accounts for half of the country's tax revenue....how much more do you want???

They're also capturing 90% of the income growth

 

[HoboCommander]

haha but really.. Talking about increasing the taxes to acheive these goals or rebalancing money spent on other programs doesnt seem like social justice at all

Additionally.. These sorts of answers are very touchy and political and a turn off to Adcoms

I've been to a lot of interviews and my answer to the question of what is the biggest problem facing health care today are fat sedentary people and smokers, and the need for patient education. It's a safer and more effective path to steer the conversation.

 

[SSSMDt]

I've been to a lot of interviews and my answer to the question of what is the biggest problem facing health care today are fat sedentary people and smokers, and the need for patient education. It's a safer and more effective path to steer the conversation.

But patient education as no impact on med school costs which drives physicians out of going into primary care....

 

[HoboCommander]

But patient education as no impact on med school costs which drives physicians out of going into primary care....

they are not going into primary care because it makes half the salary. which makes you wonder if the demand for primary care physicians is really there.

 

[SSSMDt]

they are not going into primary care because it makes half the salary. which makes you wonder if the demand for primary care physicians is really there.

Im sort of inclined to say the demand is there.. Its become increasingly difficult for patients to find a physician who is accepting new pstients for them to establish care with. There are certainly some ways i could imagine the system can funnel more patients away from urgent care and ER visits and encourage more PCP visits, but physicians arent going to be inclined to enter into primary care until their overwhelming debt is taken care of.. Saying "increase taxes" is hard for me to justify given the fact that the US spends the most money on health care but med school tuition is still outrageous

 

[HoboCommander]

Im sort of inclined to say the demand is there.. Its become increasingly difficult for patients to find a physician who is accepting new pstients for them to establish care with. There are certainly some ways i could imagine the system can funnel more patients away from urgent care and ER visits and encourage more PCP visits, but physicians arent going to be inclined to enter into primary care until their overwhelming debt is taken care of.. Saying "increase taxes" is hard for me to justify given the fact that the US spends the most money on health care but med school tuition is still outrageous

you can also change family medicine into a 2-year residency program to get more people into it. it's not going to affect outcomes.

 

[SSSMDt]

you can also change family medicine into a 2-year residency program to get more people into it. it's not going to affect outcomes.

Thatll just produce more demand for specialty care because PCPs have less training, right?

 

[SSSMDt]

you can also change family medicine into a 2-year residency program to get more people into it. it's not going to affect outcomes.

If tuition cost stays the same and PCP salaries stay the same i would much rather take an extra year or two of residency and end up making 100k+ more every year in a specialty

 

[7331poas]

Can we just go ahead and decide on this now so I know whether I need to be going into computer science or not?

 

[Gandyy]

Can we just go ahead and decide on this now so I know whether I need to be going into computer science or not?

lol

 

[allantois]

Honestly, all the conservative rant about taxes and slavery remind me of the similar chanting about the Middle East: "those people are dictators and they must go".

There must be something about their brains that processes all these negative emotions; as there seems to inherently be no way to reason with them.

 

[Gandyy]

Increasing taxes will do nothing by the way. Just letting you guys know that.

Know why?


Because the United States could be given 400 quentillion free Dollars, and our government would still not figure out how to allocate that money properly. They would just spent 399.9999999999999999 Quentillion dollars on the Military and then claim that they need to increase taxes.

 

[allantois]

Increasing taxes will do nothing by the way. Just letting you guys know that.

Know why?


Because the United States could be given 400 quentillion free Dollars, and our government would still not figure out how to allocate that money properly. They would just spent 399.9999999999999999 Quentillion dollars on the Military and then claim that they need to increase taxes.

Yeah, and Bush's tax breaks for the billionaires did not create $2 trillions of debt.

 

[StudyLater]

So if I'm reading this thread right, we need to tax more even though that will do nothing and then get people to stop being fat and smoking meth and going to the doc when they don't need to even though that in and of itself would cut our salaries and then reallocate military budgets to healthcare and revolt against the rich.

This thread was productive.

 

[Gandyy]

Yeah, and Bush's tax breaks for the billionaires did not create $2 trillions of debt.

You know what the other biggest limiting factor to finding out what plagues our country is?

Reliable facts. I can never ever know if the facts I receive from someone through the news, debates or even on "official" websites will give me the whole truth. (Not saying your 2 trillion dollar fact is wrong, just stating another problem for why we cant fix the healthcare system)

This is why science is so good.

 

[StudyLater]

You know what the other biggest limiting factor to finding out what plagues our country is?

Reliable facts. I can never ever know if the facts I receive from someone through the news, debates or even on "official" websites will give me the whole truth. (Not saying your 2 trillion dollar fact is wrong, just stating another problem for why we cant fix the healthcare system)

Yes.

This is why science is so good.

Except when people fudge data and use shoddy statistical analysis and just plain lie about the conclusions (after which the lies are propagated through news media to cause mass hysteria leading to greater advertising dollars which fund more studies and the cycle continues).

 

[Gandyy]

So if I'm reading this thread right, we need to tax more even though that will do nothing and then get people to stop being fat and smoking meth and going to the doc when they don't need to even though that in and of itself would cut our salaries and then reallocate military budgets to healthcare and revolt against the rich.

This thread was productive.

Another problem is that I just looked up some "official" government spending pie charts and apparently our government spends more money on healthcare than the military......

But then I look at another chart and it says we spend way more on military than healthcare.

Sigh....... *****ic is an understatement

 

[StudyLater]

Another problem is that I just looked up some "official" government spending pie charts and apparently our government spends more money on healthcare than the military......

But then I look at another chart and it says we spend way more on military than healthcare.

Sigh....... *****ic is an understatement

In any event, both things are important.

People try to kill us. And we also try to kill ourselves.

 

[Gandyy]

In any event, both things are important.

People try to kill us. And we also try to kill ourselves.

Yea, they are, but so is conservative reasonable allocation.

 

[SSSMDt]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4102847/

I think this is a worthwhile read if anyone is interested

 

[Pusheen]

The more I try to make sense of current politics and economy, the more I am convinced that we are part of an incredibly wasteful, inefficient country.

I love America as much as anyone, and don't want to live anywhere else, but it just makes me sad how much effort, time, money, and resources are wasted or terribly managed. The circus that is this presidential election is also disappointing.
Maybe I'm just a cynic because I spend so much time in really ****ty geographical areas or something. It doesn't really seem to be any better on a national scale though

 

[Gandyy]

The more I try to make sense of current politics and economy, the more I am convinced that we are part of an incredibly wasteful, inefficient country.

I love America as much as anyone, and don't want to live anywhere else, but it just makes me sad how much effort, time, money, and resources are wasted or terribly managed. The circus that is Trump is also disappointing.

Maybe I'm just a cynic because I spend so much time in really ****ty geographical areas.

FTFY

 

[WingedOx]

Yes, for the same reason I don't get to shoot a healthy person just because I can save 5 with their organs after I kill them

well duh, the bullet will potentially damage the organs. You have to take their organs while they're still alive.

 

[Gandyy]

well duh, the bullet will potentially damage the organs. You have to take their organs while they're still alive.

This physician is all about the jokes today

 

[allantois]

FTFY

A neurosurgeon will not solve our problems.

And while I'm not a Trump supporter by any stretch of imagination, he has real world experiences of dealing with politicians, doing business in foreign countries, as well as managing thousands of employees.

Who is Ben Carson going to appoint as his secretaries and aids, former nurses who helped him separate conjoined twins?

 

[Pusheen]

FTFY

Don't change what I wrote man, that freaks me out
I won't get into elections here, but what I meant was, I think the whole current campaigning system is overblown and a waste of resources. And yea, trump and all his antics just prove that even more

 

[Gandyy]

A neurosurgeon will not solve our problems.

And while I'm not a Trump supporter by any stretch of imagination, he has real world experiences of dealing with politicians, doing business in foreign countries, as well as managing thousands of employees.

Who is Ben Carson going to appoint as secretaries and aids, former nurses who helped him separate conjoined twins?

You have this habit of assuming things about the opinions of others I've noticed. Just because I mentioned that Ben Carson is a likable person in a nother thread does not mean I think he will "solve our problems."

Both of them are probably not fit to lead, but I would have MUCH more confidence in Carson. That being said, Trump has more experience relevant to politics as you say. If only a human being could be created with Carson's personality and intelligence with Trump's experience and money........

 

[Pusheen]

On a side note to this, Trump will randomly pop up in older movies (Zoolander, Home Alone, ect) and I practically choke on my popcorn when I see him. It's always so unexpected

 

[Gandyy]

On a side note to this, Trump will randomly pop up in older movies (Zoolander, Home Alone, ect) and I practically choke on my popcorn when I see him. It's always so unexpected

Are you serious?

How have I never noticed this?

 

[Pusheen]

Are you serious?

How have I never noticed this?

Right? He just randomly appears for a few seconds, and I feel like I am hallucinating or something

 

[Gandyy]

Right? He just randomly appears for a few seconds, and I feel like I am hallucinating or something

lmao

 

[Wilf]

Personally I would have no issue at all earning 100k as an attending, but somebody better be covering my education costs.

If I make 100k as an attending someone better pay off all my loans, pay for my malpractice insurance, and I better not have to pay income tax.

 

[DubVille]

If I make 100k as an attending someone better pay off all my loans, pay for my malpractice insurance, and I better not have to pay income tax.

.....and I am running out of the office after my 8 hours a day.

 

[kavorca]

High health care costs have little to do with doctor salaries, IMO. There are infinite layers of middle managers and bureaucrats in hospitals and insurance who are sucking the money. You have multiple levels of one person in charge of 2 doing the work that can be done by one, all making 60-100k.

 

[Dredge]

Just to comment on the Canadian system, as a Canadian, and having family members in healthcare in Canada:

It is cheaper in Canada for a few reasons:

1. The provincial/federal governments negotiate with drug companies and they essentially prevent companies from selling their drugs at exorbitant prices (i.e. either you sell the drug at $X or we just make it completely unavailable in Canada)
2. Hospitals & their administration aren't out to make millions of dollars in profits
3. Medical testing and procedures that aren't urgent can take months vs days-weeks in the US. (e.g. it took me 8 months to get sinus surgery even though it was causing me significant discomfort and reduction in QoL).
4. Most provinces require income-earning individuals to contribute in some way or another.. so it is not entirely "free". Similarly, most drugs in Canada have to be paid for.
5. As some have said, tuition at Canadian schools is easily half that of the US. Unfortunately it is also much more difficult to get accepted (~10-25% acceptance rate vs 65% in the US; most Canadians apply 2.7 cycles to get in). This is because they are all public universities and heavily subsidized.

Also you are incorrect - Doctors in Canada get paid well - perhaps not as much as in the US, but I'd say easily at least 75% that of US docs.

This.
I would add one thing though. The doctors salaries is a bit of a complicated thing and the CMA lobbies a little to make sure that there isn't a big increase in doctor positions available, so as to keep the salaries high. You can compare this to european systems that have a very similar set up but way more docs that are being paid significantly less. Obviously, how much sway the CMA actually has on legislators is hard to tell, but its probably more than zero. Still, awesome post.

 

[sullen-burger]

On a side note to this, Trump will randomly pop up in older movies (Zoolander, Home Alone, ect) and I practically choke on my popcorn when I see him. It's always so unexpected

Hah. Just wait until 2017. You'll get a real kick out of him then.

 

[Astra]

Hah. Just wait until 2017. You'll get a real kick out of him then.

This is a necrobump I approve. Well played

 

[JPSmyth]

Make school way more affordable and subsidize my loans for me then I would consider it. I'm not going into 300K debt to not get compensated well

 

[RenegadeOkapi]

why has this thread been revived? Seemed pretty cancerous.

 

[LivMoore]

Go back a few posts, mostly to reply to an old comment with its relevance now.

 

[floatingribs]

yes, but along with it should be extreme cuts of higher education and internal spending in hospitals (administration and drugs mostly)

But honestly if you're comparing us to other western nations, their taxes are wayyyy higher which can allow for more subsidized care, among many other factors and just cutting physician or any healthcare provider pay would do very little to solve the actual problem.

Why does health care cost so much in America? Ask Harvard's David Cutler

 

[787593]

The cost of healthcare today is absolutely outrageous, and this is coming from a pre-med student. Insurance costs are completely out of control, common prescription drugs, like Xarelto (latest blood-thinner) are far too expensive for the average American.

In my opinion universal healthcare is the end-goal. Obamacare hasn't helped much, a vast percentage of Americans can't afford healthcare. Something has to change, for the sake of the system we need to cut insurance companies out and cut doctor pay, there is no other ethical solution.

European countries and Canadians pay their doctors less and America doesn't offer a statistically superior outcome for the majority of illness.

 

[787593]

Repairing the insurance market won't work and hasn't worked. Obamacare was the best Congress could do and it should be called "Unaffordable care". Every time I bring this up, we seem to ignore the fact good Canadian and European doctors exist who went to much cheaper schools, are paid a bit less, but who have patients who can actually afford to visit and be treated by them. No more repairing an impossibly flawed bureaucratic mess of a system . Healthcare and education are a right, ask any Swede or Norwegian, and the final goal is to make a government financed system with a stronger focus on preventative medicine. Insurance companies are bloating healthcare to the point of absurdity, ask anyone outside the American bubble who will tell you "Healthcare in America is mad" and they aren't wrong.

 

[ridethecliche]

Stupid old thread is stupid.

But TLDR: Those that think cutting physician salaries will magically fix the sheer insanity that is our healthcare system need to read more. Lots lots lots more.

 

[allantois]

They discuss it in every thread the issue comes up. Talk about gridlock.

My godness and SB still does it 2 years later!

Those libertarian ideologues should have spend their time working out a healthcare plan instead of having abstract philosophical discussions!

 

[Tenk]

We should get paid more.