Should my wife Appeal notice of termination or Resign?

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ObgynSpouse

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I know this issue has been talked before and since every case is different wanted to post my wife's situation since I firmly believe in the saying ...... in the multitude of counsel there is wisdom ..

My wife was placed under admin leave out of no where indicating that she is being investigated for possible risk to patient safety and was being investigated.

Brief Background

My wife was 5 months into her first pregnancy when she first joined the program, she was put in the most difficult rotations get go and she had a tough time, after 3 months or so she took maternity leave and she returned to work after 3 months on leave.. which put her 3 months off cycle.

For the first 3 months she got reviews that her performance was below normal and she wont be advanced to PGY2 if she doesn't improve. She worked her butt off after rejoining and was fine with good assessments until couple weeks ago when she got the notice, she was in her first PGY3 rotation..

I went through all my wife's assessments and everything was satisfactory or above as late as 6/14/2012 .. bcos of which i assume they let her start PGY3

Apparently in her first PGY3 rotation which started on 6/28/12 the admin chief on her team was after her from the very first day, the chief gave her a very hard time and my wife just put up with it without complaining to the PD.

The chief informed the attendings of every small mistake and long story short few days prior to the admin leave, the program gathered emails from a fellow and an attending about my wife's medical knowledge etc etc, her skill etc for her last rotation and peppered my wifes incompetency in general for the last 2 years. The irony is everybody was praising the chief and putting my wife down .. I suspect if the chief helped compose the emails... anyway

Current Situation

Right after she was placed on admin leave on 7/20/12, the PD suggested my wife look for other programs and gave a good letter of transfer / LOR.. so did other attendings .. my wife gave a couple of interviews already and we are praying we ride this storm.

Apparently she will be served with a notice of intent to terminate in a few days, the PD is suggesting resigning so that nothing will be on her file. And if they serve the intent to terminate and she goes through the appeals process .. she can no longer resign if the appeals process gets denied and she will risk a lot since all this allegations will be on file and all

We are meeting the resident union on monday to get their take as well .. thoughts on what the best option for us to pursue?

I appreciate all your valuable suggestions..

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Do not appeal!
Swap to another program.

That is what I am wife is leaning towards as well, its sad that there is no opportunity to request any remediation steps or anything for that matter.
 
I think she should leave without fighting it, since I don't think she will win if she tried to fight it, it will take a long time, and she would not then be able to get decent recommendations.
It sounds like there were a lot of complicating factors here, like having a baby during intern year, which I think would be incredibly hard if doing a specialty that involves surgical procedures and has the stress and irregular hours of things like ob/gyn, surgery, etc.

I think she should think about what type of spots she wants to apply to, if leaving. Does she really want to continue in ob/gyn, and if so, what were the problems (? problems in surgery, problems with getting clinic notes or other work done on time, etc.), and whether the program director is going to say things to the new programs she is applying to that will keep her out. Obviously this chief residency wanted her out and other people did not want to fight for her, so even if they offered "OK recommendations" on paper, you have to think about what they are going to say to people who call and ask about her performance. Programs she applies to are going to assume she did some things to get terminated/forced to resign, so she has to be ready to address this. Also, if she reapplies to ob/gyn, maybe she should apply to PGY2 spots since she will be in a new place and the program is saying there were some deficiencies...it might be easier to get a spot. Or she could consider other specialties...may not want to but things like family practice, and to an extent IM and peds, are easier to get into. Also peds and IM allow you to specialize afterwards if you want to.
 
The ideal situation would be to find a new spot now. Easier said than done.

I personally would have gotten an attorney yesterday.

If she resigns and the program bad mouths her, red flags her, or just doesn't do what they are promising, you have nothing.

At attorney could stall or help develop terms for the resignation/leave.
 
The ideal situation would be to find a new spot now. Easier said than done.

I personally would have gotten an attorney yesterday.

If she resigns and the program bad mouths her, red flags her, or just doesn't do what they are promising, you have nothing.

At attorney could stall or help develop terms for the resignation/leave.

Probably true. Best would be to land another spot before all this comes to a head. Appealing is probably fruitless since it sounds like they have documented multiple shortcomings and have legal grounds , at least on paper, to terminate. But once she resigns whether they do the right thing is anyone's guess.
 
Probably true. Best would be to land another spot before all this comes to a head. Appealing is probably fruitless since it sounds like they have documented multiple shortcomings and have legal grounds , at least on paper, to terminate. But once she resigns whether they do the right thing is anyone's guess.

Got a question for you. There were several circumstances: The OP's wife was labeled below-average following her return from maternity leave, and also, during the last few months of her pregnancy, the program assigned her to the toughest rotations. Is it possible that a case could be made for discrimination? The program could have resented having a pregnant intern,or an intern who had to take time off for motherhood, and may have been trying to weed her out from the very beginning. During her PGY3 rotation, when the program really came after her, they may have been looking for excuses to get rid of her. Of course, this is all speculation on my part, but I'm just wondering.
 
Got a question for you. There were several circumstances: The OP's wife was labeled below-average following her return from maternity leave, and also, during the last few months of her pregnancy, the program assigned her to the toughest rotations. Is it possible that a case could be made for discrimination? The program could have resented having a pregnant intern,or an intern who had to take time off for motherhood, and may have been trying to weed her out from the very beginning. During her PGY3 rotation, when the program really came after her, they may have been looking for excuses to get rid of her. Of course, this is all speculation on my part, but I'm just wondering.

If you can make a case for substantially differing treatment after they learned she was pregnant, you can certainly raise the issue. Things like being assigned the toughest rotations is probably a subjective call and it would be difficult to demonstrate -- also if everyone had to complete these to advance and there wasn't much flexibility in terms of scheduling, that's a hard case -- you really can't be half in in residency, either you can do the worst of it, or you can't. How the program has treated other pregnant residents would also be relevant. And certainly it sounds like this was more than Being labeled below average if they are labeling her "a risk to patient safety". Each of these cases is fact specific. Treating the only pregnant person differently in attempts to get rid of them is discrimination. But if they have treated other pregnant residents well, and she has done things that are documented and not objectively benign, that's different.
 
I think it is imperative that she do whatever is possible to avoid having a resignation or a termination on her record.

The reason that's important is hospital credentialing. They all ask about this stuff and getting approved for credentialing straight out of residency is going to be more difficult with this on her record. If the hospital denies privileges, it is usually a mandatory report to the NPDB which will follow her for life.
 
1. Get a lawyer. You might consider malpractice lawyers, as they have some familiarity with the medical system (although, not always familiar with residency). One who is actually familiar with residency would be great.
2. Have that lawyer call the hospital's legal council and negotiate the "settlement." You need the lawyer to keep everyone honest and give your wife the best shot at not having this ruin her career. Like previous posters pointed out: your wife's future is in the hands of the people who don't want her there (and have likely been gunning for her for months). Their egos are going to be too large to just let your wife resign without some sort of permanent mark in her record about "deficiency" or something justifying their actions. Your wife cannot let them do that to her, because, as Socrates25 pointed out, it will follow her for life. The lawyer will make them sign a contract saying that they will not talk trash about your wife, will give her good recommendations, and not include anything damaging in her summative evaluation. Anything less than that, and her future is grim. That's how the lawyers earn their $$.
3. Your lawyer may be able to persuade the opposing council that a case could be made for discrimination. This may encourage the other side to refrain from talking badly about your wife and you may be able to ask for "damages" (like, say a year's work of salary and legal fees, since from this post, it looks like they didn't follow due process with your wife anyways).
4. If you think this may end up in court one day, exhaust every appeal. None of them will work - medicine is a closed and conservative system, and no matter what, no bureaucrat (ie, the ACGME DIO) is going to rule against their friends. But if it ends up in court, it will be held against your wife if she didn't file every appeal.

Most of all, hiring a lawyer will help improve the chance of your wife getting out of this unscathed. The cost of a lawyer is far cheaper than student debt and the loss of a lifetime of earnings as a doctor.

One last thing: don't just think your wife can resign and this will all go away. Forced to resign = terminated. State licensing boards have more questions about residency than they have about substance abuse, etc. Many ask "have you ever been forced to resign..." Check out the licensing applications for states you would like to practice medicine - that will also inform your lawyer what they should ask for in order to keep your record clean. That's why you need a lawyer and you can't just resign - it will still follow you forever and the $$ you saved on legal fees won't compare to the pain of not getting licensed in the future.
 
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One last thing: don't just think your wife can resign and this will all go away. Forced to resign = terminated. State licensing boards have more questions about residency than they have about substance abuse, etc. Many ask "have you ever been forced to resign..." Check out the licensing applications for states you would like to practice medicine - that will also inform your lawyer what they should ask for in order to keep your record clean. That's why you need a lawyer and you can't just resign - it will still follow you forever and the $$ you saved on legal fees won't compare to the pain of not getting licensed in the future.

:thumbup:good advice
 
1. Get a lawyer today. If you need the name of mine PM me.
2. My philosophy is that if I'm not wanted, then I don't want to be there. With that said, and as the othesr have said, you need to be able to get out unscathed so it doesn't affect future licensing.
3. Sounds like a gang up type of situation and retaliation for her materinity leave. Doubt you could ever prove it. I have has similar instances out in the workforce and found it was easier just to resign and get out, let the lawyer deal with the issues, and never look back.
4. Don't leave without securing another residency spot because you don't want to be caught in limbo.
 
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I actually agree with the "getting legal advice", although I was saying she should resign. I still think that she should resign, but try to get the best terms possible. One of those would be getting a summary of her progress and a list of rotations she has completed successfully (i.e. would get credit for), and hopefully getting the program to sign some sort of letter that they won't bad mouth her. This is just a very tricky situation, though...
 
lawyer up!!
the more experience in the medical field of the layer the better( think of that big amount of money as an investment, and well worth one!)
Good luck and i hope you can put all of this behind you soon! never look back!
 
An employment specialist would be best for a lawyer. They will have broad experience with these kinds of things and would also know others who might specialize in medical contracts. Many times, what happens in medicine (or any other profession) can be similar to other fields. Constructive termination or 'discharge,' is the same in principle no matter what the company.

A good lawyer will help you to see more clearly and be able to make the best decisions possible. They can be an excellent buffer between you and a stressful situation, and that is worth everything.
 
An employment specialist would be best for a lawyer. They will have broad experience with these kinds of things and would also know others who might specialize in medical contracts. Many times, what happens in medicine (or any other profession) can be similar to other fields. Constructive termination or 'discharge,' is the same in principle no matter what the company.

A good lawyer will help you to see more clearly and be able to make the best decisions possible. They can be an excellent buffer between you and a stressful situation, and that is worth everything.

Although what happens in medicine is similar to other fields, residency is rather unique because it is a hybrid of employment/training. While 2 years of salary would probably be a good outcome for an improperly fired person in most jobs, this result would not necessarily be sufficient for a fired resident who is unable to complete his/her training.
 
Hey, I've been through this and I'm still fighting it. I agree with the poster who said DO not resign. If you realize that you were done wrong later, a resignation takes away most of your power to appeal. I'm a military resident so I have even fewer rights than most. No union, the attendings just point in your direction and you're finished. They have a ridiculously efficient system for getting rid of residents in my hospital.

I'm compiling my lessons learned along with legal advice, etc. so that others can fight off these sort of attacks.

Take a look at the cases that I've put links to so that you can see what has gone down in the past.
 
Although your website is quite incomplete, the list of cases is interesting.

I've reviewed some of these before (for an internal review of our processes), and one of the best written and most general discussions is the Hernandez case, the first on the list. Unfortunately, your link doesn't actually lead to anything, but this one does: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/nj-supreme-court/1272123.html The case reviews much of how the process works -- the standards that programs must meet, what due process is, etc. The discussion at the very end (where the author disagrees with the majority about counsel) is also very interesting.

Usually, when residents try to use the courts to overturn termination decisions, they try to do so with one of three strategies: 1) The program didn't give me any warning that there was a problem; 2) I am a whsitleblower and I'm being fired for it; or 3) Discrimination of some sort. Unfortunatly, it's often impossible to tell who is telling the truth in these situations.

One thing that is very interesting is that, in several cases, residents who are suing their programs have also sued other programs in the past for termination. I hate to say this, but if you've been fired from two different programs, it's probably not discrimination.

However, there is no question that from your list, the case that wins for the biggest disaster is Christina Grudzinsky. One of her multiple cases is listed on your site. It makes great reading. You honestly can't make stuff like this up. In summary:

She graduated from USC in 1994, and started a surgical residency at UC Irvine in 1994. She was terminated at the beginning of her PGY2 (1995). She claimed that she was sexually harrassed by both a faculty and by a chief. She sued UC Irvine. This lawsuit seems to have taken years to develop and conclude. Utimately UC Irvine was found innocent on all charges, she was labelled by the court as being a "vexious litigant", and UC Irvine was ultimately granted a judgement for $1.1 million for their court costs. Every step on the way was appealed by her, and she lost every appeal, right up to the state's supreme court.

Meanwhile, she started another surgical residency in 1996, at UT Houston. She only lasted there for 6 months. She again claimed that she was sexually harrassed, and claimed that her prior supervisors at UC Irvine called UT, and they therefore started treating her badly. She ended up resigning in lieu of being fired.

She then obtained a preliminary surgical PGY-2 in New York in 1998, which she apparently completed but was not renewed further.

Then, she found a PGY3 at MCO, which she obtained in 1999. Unfortunately, she failed to mention that she ever worked at UT in her application. Per court documents she reports that she did tell some of her interviewers about it, but not others. 6 months into her residency, she was fired. Interestingly, MCO completely messed up their due process, and she sued them and won. It's not totally clear what happened after she won.

Then, apparently, she obtained a position at St. Mary's in CT. She was also terminated from that residency, and sued. She lost that case, and then of course appealed it. Apparently the basis of her appeal was that she stated that her evaluation had been "backdated" to make it look like the program actually gave her earlier notice of her deficiencies. She had asked to see the original electronic copy of the document to see if it had been altered, and the hospital reported that the original electronic docment had been lost when a computer crashed and the hard drive was reformatted. She claimed this was evidence of a conspiracy. She lost that appeal.

She also seems to have complete a 1 year fellowship in surgical critical care in Florida. She was able to get a Florida medical license.

But, the story doesn't end there.

Remember that $1.4 million judgement? Well, needless to say, she's going to have some trouble paying that. So, she decided to file for bankruptcy. In all of her other proceedings, she had acted as her own counsel. This time, she hired a lawyer. Problem is, she hired a lawyer who had never done a bankruptcy before. The filing got completely screwed up -- basically, UC irvine was never given notice that she was filing for bankruptcy because no one ever sent them the paperwork. So, even though her judgement was initially vacated in bankruptcy, once USC heard about it they appealed and won. They also argued that she willfully misled the court during her bankruptcy process, but actually the evidence suggested that her lawyer was simply incompetent. So, she again owed the $1.1 million, and UC irvine argued that because the judgement was awarded due to her frivolous lawsuits, it's not dischargeable in bankruptcy anyway. She of course appealed that decision, ended up getting delay after delay until the judge threw out her appeal for missing all deadlines.

No problem. She's creative. She opened a plastic surgery office in Miami. Let's not forget that absolutely none of her training was in plastics (to my knowledge). Why let that stop you? Plus, how else are you going to make $1,1 million?

Unfortunately, that didn't go well either. Online posted reviews are scathing of maimed bodies, escalating prices, etc.

And then she was caught diverting demerol into her veins. She claims her innocence, and plans to prove that in court. I wish her the best.
 
Although your website is quite incomplete, the list of cases is interesting.
I wish her the best.

My Dear aProgDirector your research is lacking a bit here, this is Christina Paylan's educational profile:



Education and Training

Institution Name UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
Dates of Attendance 6/1/1992-5/6/1994
Graduation Date 5/6/1994
Degree Title MD


Other Health Related Degrees


School/University USC
City LOS ANGELES
State/Country CALIFORNIA
Dates Attended (From) 1/1/1992
Dates Attended (To) 1/1/1996
Degree Title BS BIOLOGY


Professional and Postgraduate Training

Program Name Nassa County Medical Center
Program Type RESIDENCY
Specialty Area GS - SURGERY
Other Specialty Area
City East Meadow
State or Country NEW YORK
Dates Attended From 06/01/1998
Dates Attended To 06/30/1999



Program Name UNIV OF SOUTH FLORIDA-TAMPA GENERAL HOSPITAL
Program Type FELLOWSHIP
Specialty Area PS - PLASTIC SURGERY
Other Specialty Area
City TAMPA
State or Country FLORIDA
Dates Attended From 06/01/2001
Dates Attended To 06/01/2002


Program Name UNIV OF SOUTH FLORIDA-TAMPA GENERAL HOSPITAL
Program Type FELLOWSHIP
Specialty Area
Other Specialty Area SURGERY CRITICAL CARE
City TAMPA
State or Country FLORIDA
Dates Attended From 06/01/2004
Dates Attended To 06/01/2005
 
Program Name UNIV OF SOUTH FLORIDA-TAMPA GENERAL HOSPITAL
Program Type FELLOWSHIP
Specialty Area PS - PLASTIC SURGERY
Other Specialty Area
City TAMPA
State or Country FLORIDA
Dates Attended From 06/01/2001
Dates Attended To 06/01/2002

Actually,

1) Neither the University of South Florida nor Tampa General offer a plastic surgery fellowship. USF offers only an integrated plastic surgery residency, but not a separate fellowship. The only fellowships offered by USF, at least according to their website, are Colorectal, MIS, and Bariatrics. (So, no, they don't even offer the Surgical Critical Care fellowship she claims to have done there, either).

2) The dates you posted don't make a speck of sense. I have NEVER heard of a reputable plastic surgery fellowship that was only a year in length. Most that I know of are several years, usually 3.

And she started June 1, which is an oddity in a field where the calendar tends to officially start on July 1. Not impossible, just....odd.
 
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Actually,

1) Neither the University of South Florida nor Tampa General offer a plastic surgery fellowship. USF offers only an integrated plastic surgery residency, but not a separate fellowship. The only fellowships offered by USF, at least according to their website, are Colorectal, MIS, and Bariatrics. (So, no, they don't even offer the Surgical Critical Care fellowship she claims to have done there, either).

2) The dates you posted don't make a speck of sense. I have NEVER heard of a reputable plastic surgery fellowship that was only a year in length. Most that I know of are several years, usually 3.

And she started June 1, which is an oddity in a field where the calendar tends to officially start on July 1. Not impossible, just....odd.
http://ww2.doh.state.fl.us/irm00Profiling/profile.asp?LicId=78620&ProfNBR=1501&Lookup=TRUE
 
That profile has her only doing 3 yrs of post-graduate education with significant gaps in between her listed programs and 2 of those years being fellowships. I find it difficult to believe that is either her complete or true work history, and I don't know how much of that profile is simply self-reporting.

I'm licensed in Florida. It looks like the profile is auto-filled out from what you report on your licensure application. I don't know how much of that is actually verified by a breathing human being, though...having gone through the licensure process here, it seemed like they cared more about how many hoops you were willing to jump through, rather than the content of your application. I imagine that's true for most states, though.

In her case, I don't understand how she graduated from USC with an MD degree in only 2 years. And it looks like she got a bachelors degree in "Biology," 2 years after graduating with an MD. That should not have passed the first round of verification, but I'm not sure how much the Board of Health really cares.

The whole thing just doesn't make any sense at all. Don't know what her self-reported profile says in her defense. :rolleyes:
 
I'm licensed in Florida. It looks like the profile is auto-filled out from what you report on your licensure application. I don't know how much of that is actually verified by a breathing human being, though...having gone through the licensure process here, it seemed like they cared more about how many hoops you were willing to jump through, rather than the content of your application. I imagine that's true for most states, though.

In her case, I don't understand how she graduated from USC with an MD degree in only 2 years. And it looks like she got a bachelors degree in "Biology," 2 years after graduating with an MD. That should not have passed the first round of verification, but I'm not sure how much the Board of Health really cares.

The whole thing just doesn't make any sense at all. Don't know what her self-reported profile says in her defense. :rolleyes:

I think we should immediately report this profile to the Florida Board of Medicine then and also the Board should not misguide the public with this 'erroneous profile', the Board stands responsible for whatever it displays on its website.
 
I think we should immediately report this profile to the Florida Board of Medicine then and also the Board should not misguide the public with this 'erroneous profile', the Board stands responsible for whatever it displays on its website.

The site says that it is self reported info and is not verified unless otherwise noted. The malpractice info seems to come from the National Databank but I think everything else is straight from the practitioner. Also, it looks like she beat the demerol charges because while they found tons of demerol in her trash and bathroom with patients' names on them, it's not illegal to store Demerol if you are a doc and they couldn't prove she had used the empty vials.
 
Actually,

1) Neither the University of South Florida nor Tampa General offer a plastic surgery fellowship. USF offers only an integrated plastic surgery residency, but not a separate fellowship. The only fellowships offered by USF, at least according to their website, are Colorectal, MIS, and Bariatrics. (So, no, they don't even offer the Surgical Critical Care fellowship she claims to have done there, either).

While I don't believe for a second that she is trained in the strictest sense as she claims, there are other fellowships at USF. For example the Society of Surg Onc (SSO) runs both accredited Surg Onc and Breast Surg Onc fellowships at Moffitt and the certificate issued will have USF on them. There may be other fellowships which are not ACGME accredited and aren't listed (but not likely PRS).

2) The dates you posted don't make a speck of sense. I have NEVER heard of a reputable plastic surgery fellowship that was only a year in length. Most that I know of are several years, usually 3.

Yep. A "real" plastic surgery residency is either Integrated or 3 years after basic surgical training.

However, there are year long fellowships in things like Hand, Burns, Cosmetics, Facial Plastics, Aesthetic Breast, etc. Not saying she did one of those and she certainly would be stretching the truth to say that she did a PRS fellowship, this is likely what she is referring to (assuming she isn't out and out lying). Dr. Robert Rey, from "Dr. 90210" did the same when he used to talk about being Harvard trained, implying that he did his plastics there. He didn't but did a year long Aesthetic Breast fellowship there. Guess that sounded more prestigious to his clientele than U of Tenn Plastics!
 
However, there are year long fellowships in things like Hand, Burns, Cosmetics, Facial Plastics, Aesthetic Breast, etc. Not saying she did one of those and she certainly would be stretching the truth to say that she did a PRS fellowship, this is likely what she is referring to (assuming she isn't out and out lying).

I guess that's what she did. The language on her website is interesting....she goes out of the way to say that she completed a "certificate of fellowship" at USF/Tampa General.

Speaking of the devil....about an hour or so after I posted in this thread, I was driving around town to get something for lunch. I stopped at a red light, and looked up at a nearby billboard, which advertised....Dr. Christina Paylan! :laugh: It turns out she practices less than 5 miles from where I live.
 
Thanks for the "updates". Apparently I failed to follow the trail to the bitter end.

It appears that she had her license suspended, then had it resinstated, then had all charges dropped. It appears that charges of forging prescriptions in other people's names for her own use remain. So, chances are, she's back in business! Yay!

What's really amazing is how, throughout the entire process, she continually blames everyone else for her problems. I am 100% certain that she believes this. Each episode simply amplifies her conviction that we all have it out for her.

Speaking of the devil....about an hour or so after I posted in this thread, I was driving around town to get something for lunch. I stopped at a red light, and looked up at a nearby billboard, which advertised....Dr. Christina Paylan! :laugh: It turns out she practices less than 5 miles from where I live.

You should totally stop by and say hi.
 
Thanks for the "updates". Apparently I failed to follow the trail to the bitter end.

It appears that she had her license suspended, then had it resinstated, then had all charges dropped. It appears that charges of forging prescriptions in other people's names for her own use remain. So, chances are, she's back in business! Yay!

What's really amazing is how, throughout the entire process, she continually blames everyone else for her problems. I am 100% certain that she believes this. Each episode simply amplifies her conviction that we all have it out for her.



You should totally stop by and say hi.
Or, smq could refer her some patients! :uhno: :scared:

But seriously, I wonder how long it'll be before smq hears from the locals about Dr. Paylan's reputation...
 
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This is very interesting to read. More so that she was able to get residencies at so many places and was still bent upon not proving herself worthy of appointment and finish at a good note. Having said that, how on earth did she manage to even get another spot and pay all these lawyers? Did she omit her previous experience from CV? Or just didnt mention on CV and then on interview explained the situation and got away with it.

Good for her is she has actually really made it. but $ 1 million is a big thing

As for the original writer; good luck to your wife. I am sure these are rough times.
 
Hi Cabin builder,

I a family medicine resident facing termination for being insubordinate to my PD. He made up a rule, falsified information even on my termination letter and fired me. I am in washington state and cant seem to find a lawyer who knows how to deal with residency legal matters. Will you please share your lawyer's info with me? I would be so very grateful. Thank you.
 
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